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Discussion Starter #1
Okay maybe stare isn't the best word, let's call it admiring. And it seems some girls will get creeped out by this. Ive got two arguments to try and level:

1. To the girls who dress with the intent of getting looks... You should expect to get a few looks. If you're wearing a shirt cut halfway down your chest and jeans/skirt that are couple sizes too small, don't pretend you don't want the attention. Don't get me wrong, us guys love it, but it's a bit confusing when you get offended when we admire.

2. Second, and more importantly to the classy women, neot all guys have bad intentions. A lot of just appreciate beauty. We admire all that nature has to offer. Sunsets, an oceanfront view, flowers, foliage, etc. You girls just happen to be the most beautiful view nature offers. Nothing creepy about it, your just fun to look at.

All I'm trying to say is, girls are awesome, girls know they are sexy, just take these glances as a compliments. And maybe send a few back our way :tongue:
 

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I kind of agree with all of you, and yet kind of don't. Admiring? That's wonderful, really. If women are allowed to admire a man's biceps or abs or what have you, a man should be allowed to admire a woman. But the intent of "admiring" isn't always clear (actually almost never clear, in my experience). Seeing someone looking intently at you can feel creepy, and sometimes condescending, simply because you don't know what their intentions are. If I knew that I was just being admired from afar? Sure, cool, awesome. But because almost all of the time when a guy's looking at me, I have no idea or suspect he's judging me, it's not comfortable at all.
 

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I am, in fact, the opposite. I rarely ever look at a stranger for more than a split second (the one excpetion is this one girl I have a huge crush on). I feel uncomfortable looking at anybody for too long, feeling like I'm being rude or making them uncomfortable (which is what causes discomfort in the first place!).
 

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Watch carefully the looks on your fellow men's faces when they are staring at a girl. It is a hungry, greedy look... Imagine it trained on you all throughout the day. And there is no defense against an unwelcome stare, it's not like you can fight back. Point #1 I agree with you though.
Such a good point you make there.

It goes without saying that all men are not created equal when it comes to this staring business, and that not all of you are creepers just looking to pick us up. The problem is, however, that most girls have had that kind of experience at least once in their life, therefore we equate that kind of staring with being creepy and invasive. That kind of staring, in a way, makes us feel violated. It's as if we don't have the right to go wherever we want and do whatever we please without being encroached upon in such an off-putting way. Don't get me wrong, some staring is nice, flattering even. But if we can't wear whatever we want or simply just be, without being stared at, it gets pretty frustrating and feels almost like our privacy is being invaded. It's as if we're here just for your viewing pleasure, and it's only too easy to imagine what someone might be thinking. If all you do is stare without any provocation/interaction, then there is no way for a girl to tell what your intentions are. Many of us are far too used to creeps. Just do us a favor--if you're going to stare, be discrete about it. ;) (And respectful, of course!)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Very fair points as to the the depth of the stare. I can't imagine it's comfortable at all to have someone fixated on you. That is always gonna be a little bit creepy regardless of intentions. But say your walking down the street and you notice someone catch a glance as they pass? Or in a classroom, you notice a guy looking over? Still uncomfortable?

Ideally guys should keep it discrete to avoid awkward/creepiness. It's a bit of an art after all. Problem is sometimes you girls are so cute we can't help but steal one too many glances.
 

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1. There's a difference between an appreciative glance and a gawk. I think that most women who dress to impress do so for the former. No one likes to be gawked at. It causes discomfort and self-conciousness.

2. If you don't have bad intentions and just want to admire without the creep label, keep the glances short and subtle. Cat-calling, sexual comments and long, open-mouthed stares will not be welcomed, unless you're in a strip club.
 

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Hmm.. I think there can be a difference between friendly glances and gawking. And then, there is a difference between looking into someone's face or staring at their body. And then there is a difference between being an admirer and being the creepy peeping tom-type. lol

And like others have said, if someone is insistently staring at you, you really may not know the motivation behind it. And apparently one out of three females is sexually assaulted or something along those lines.. so perhaps that may be why 'stares' may not always be extremely welcome from all.

I'd expect that INFP's might be able to understand why it might make a female uncomfortable. A little attention is nice, but a lot of attention or focus might be a bit overwhelming depending on the circumstance.

It just depends. Just don't be a creep. Use self control. All things in moderation. I think there is a way that you can be flattering and courteous without being stalker-like.

My 2 pennies.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
1. There's a difference between an appreciative glance and a gawk. I think that most women who dress to impress do so for the former. No one likes to be gawked at. It causes discomfort and self-conciousness.

2. If you don't have bad intentions and just want to admire without the creep label, keep the glances short and subtle. Cat-calling, sexual comments and long, open-mouthed stares will not be welcomed, unless you're in a strip club.
I completely agree with your second point. Subtlety is the key and anything excessive is always going to be a bit unnerving.

However, I think the same kind of logic applies when it comes to your 1st point. It's one thing to dress nice in the hopes of earning a quick glance or two. But if a girl is walking aroun half naked I think there's the inherent probability that you will get gawked at. I personally don't find it all that attractive, but for most guys it's an invitation to stare. Sometimes our eyes may depict a creepy side despite overall good intentions. Well sometimes a girl just may want a glance, but the outfit screams "look at me."
 

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Regarding point #1 in the OP, these girls have to remember that they will get the attention of EVERYONE (even 400-lb balding middle-aged guys), and not just the cute guy down the street.

All I'm saying is if you dress shockingly, expect shocked reactions.
 

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There are certainly levels of staring, such as lecherous stares or just looking at someone a second too long because they're cute. I don't have much problem with the latter, but lecherous stares score off the charts on the Creep-O-Meter.

But to address your points:

1. In many societies, women were and still are regarded by looks first, intelligence and personality second. So if a woman is at school, work, out and about, and a man is paying more attention to her body than who she is as a person, she will understandably not like it because there is historical baggage.

Sometimes I don't like to dress up nicely because when I do, men often do not bother hiding that they're undressing me with their minds, and many times the more bold make pretty fucking offensive comments. One time I had to change my jogging route because men would not just let me be. It's creepy to have people regard you in that way. Plus, the difference in how men stare at me when I'm wearing jeans and a t-shirt and little to no make-up, compared to when I'm wearing something nicer and make-up -- it's ridiculous. (Also, if anyone is wondering why some women feel insecure if they're not wearing make-up....)

And maybe a woman just simply is not attracted to men. Another reason that stares creep me out other than sexism is that I am asexual. I don't see people in that way, so when I see men checking me out, it's just uncomfortable. So maybe a woman is a lesbian. It might make her uncomfortable to know that a man is attracted to her enough to blatantly check her out when she does not return the sentiment at all.

Women can also dress nice because they like fashion. Even though I avoid dressing nicely at times because the stares can get off-putting, I still like fashion and coordinating outfits in an artistic expression. The outfit you described is very popular among younger crowds, so maybe these women are just wanting to follow trends.

2. That's a really nice sentiment, and I don't have much to weigh in on like with #1. All I want to say is make sure when you're looking that you're not being creepy to her perspective. Just because you don't think you look creepy, doesn't mean you actually don't look creepy, in other words.
 

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I completely agree with your second point. Subtlety is the key and anything excessive is always going to be a bit unnerving.

However, I think the same kind of logic applies when it comes to your 1st point. It's one thing to dress nice in the hopes of garnering attention. But if a girl is walking aroun half naked I think there's the inherent probability that you will get gawked at. I personally don't find it all that attractive, but for most guys it's an invitation to stare. Sometimes our eyes may depict a creepy side despite overall good intentions. Well sometimes a girl just may want a glance, but the outfit screams "look at me."
I can't really speak for women who do this because I prefer to dress modestly, but I still think they would be able to wear whatever they want without being harassed. The whole "she was asking for it" argument is a little outdated, don't you think?
 

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Very fair points as to the the depth of the stare. I can't imagine it's comfortable at all to have someone fixated on you. That is always gonna be a little bit creepy regardless of intentions. But say your walking down the street and you notice someone catch a glance as they pass? Or in a classroom, you notice a guy looking over? Still uncomfortable?

Ideally guys should keep it discrete to avoid awkward/creepiness. It's a bit of an art after all. Problem is sometimes you girls are so cute we can't help but steal one too many glances.
I would imagine both of those would be acceptable. :)
 

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Plus, the difference in how men stare at me when I'm wearing jeans and a t-shirt and little to no make-up, compared to when I'm wearing something nicer and make-up -- it's ridiculous. (Also, if anyone is wondering why some women feel insecure if they're not wearing make-up....)
Could you clarify this? How do men stare at you with T-shirt and jeans and no make-up? Or do they stop staring? What is the cause of the insecurity? I would think that no make-up, t-shirt and jeans would lessen the problem of "a man is paying more attention to her body than who she is as a person" and thus lead to less insecurity.
 

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I can't really speak for women who do this because I prefer to dress modestly, but I still think they would be able to wear whatever they want without being harassed. The whole "she was asking for it" argument is a little outdated, don't you think?
Well if I dress like a doctor or a cop, people will assume certain things and treat me differently. I don't see why dressing like a porn star or stripper is an exception. We're not talking about rape of course, which is the connotation of "she was asking for it".
 

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Okay maybe stare isn't the best word, let's call it admiring. And it seems some girls will get creeped out by this. Ive got two arguments to try and level:

1. To the girls who dress with the intent of getting looks... You should expect to get a few looks. If you're wearing a shirt cut halfway down your chest and jeans/skirt that are couple sizes too small, don't pretend you don't want the attention. Don't get me wrong, us guys love it, but it's a bit confusing when you get offended when we admire.

2. Second, and more importantly to the classy women, neot all guys have bad intentions. A lot of just appreciate beauty. We admire all that nature has to offer. Sunsets, an oceanfront view, flowers, foliage, etc. You girls just happen to be the most beautiful view nature offers. Nothing creepy about it, your just fun to look at.

All I'm trying to say is, girls are awesome, girls know they are sexy, just take these glances as a compliments. And maybe send a few back our way :tongue:
ITS HOT OUTSIDE. I'm not wearing this to have someone eyeball me. ; P
 

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Could you clarify this? How do men stare at you with T-shirt and jeans and no make-up? Or do they stop staring? What is the cause of the insecurity? I would think that no make-up, t-shirt and jeans would lessen the problem of "a man is paying more attention to her body than who she is as a person".
I don't really feel insecurity like some other women do, but the insecurity is rooted in that women often won't be seen as consistently attractive unless they're dressed up nicely. So yes, it does lessen the issue of being objectified, but it also raises the issue that the woman won't be seen as attractive with her face being natural and without make-up, but that she's only attractive with make-up. In my experience, this has been true, since I've gotten a lot more attention when wearing make-up or more feminine clothing, than when I'm not.

If you look at commercials, the beauty commercials are pretty much always targeted at women, and at the end of the commercial, the model is often all dolled up, looking happy and getting attention from men. This also perpetuates the idea that a woman will get a complete, happy life if she is using make-up and spending a nice amount of time on her appearance. Just the way she looks naturally isn't enough to be happy and get the guy at the end of the commercial -- she needs to doll up.
 

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Thanks for explaining. I really wish make-up had never been invented... it's so rare to actually see a natural, unpainted female face out in public because of what you described. I think it alienates women from their own beauty, and also conditions men to think only a face with make-up on it is feminine and beautiful. I myself am a product of this conditioning, and it takes conscious effort to undo.
 
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