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Do INTP's have what it takes to be effective and competent leaders around large numbers of people?

Maybe it's not our cup of tea, but developing leadership skills can help INTP's thrive in this extraverted world a little easier- especially when you are expected to show leadership traits in the workplace.

As for my opinion, I can take control fairly well but I feel that I'm compromising a lot of strengths in the process. And it's very bothersome when the people around you honor charisma more than ideas and respect of the leader.

It also feels like an emotional war fires up in me the whole time: logic battling feelings (a very strenuous process). But if I know what I need to do and what I'm doing, then I can usually get the job done with difficulties.

Posters, any comments thoughts/opinions?
 

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Being a leader is just one of those things. You either have it or you don't. If you have to develop it then it wasn't meant to be. When it is natural people just defer to you even when you don't want them to. Sometimes when I go to my husband's office people just start respecting me and treating me like I'm CEO of the company. It's just about having a powerful presence I guess.
 

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We're actually better at being kingmakers, and in my mind it is a whole lot more satisfying. There's something very safe about being the rearguard. But I really can't stand leaders that take my ideas and give me zero recognition. I'm not asking for a mighty song-and-dance-all-hail-the-Fi, just a thank you would do. Y'see, even if you don't get the full frontal attack, you do get stabbed in the back, if you're not careful.

Do I sound bitter?:laughing:
 

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Do INTP's have what it takes to be effective and competent leaders around large numbers of people?
The question is meaningless. An INTP is characterized by his preferences while leadership is a matter of skill. Competent leaders become competent leaders through tens of thousands of hours of practice, it really has little to do with personality. :mellow:
 

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Yes you can. Just gotta get rid of all that self-doubt. I've seen one example of INTP in leadership position and he did a good job at it. He was pushed into it, so to say, by another INTP no less. I don't think he would have taken it up otherwise as he had little desire to lead anything.

Pros: no desire to micromanage and control people, listens to others, if you ask for clarification he will give you one without going on an ego trip how you should just do it because you were told to (big bonus points over ESTJs here), he seems very logical at least to me, INTJs in the group might think otherwise, no drama, creative coming up with new ideas and solutions, though he doesn't do it as frequently as ENTPs do and his 'recombinations' are smaller scale but usually very well thought out

Cons: sort of aloof so others don't get to know him well which is unsettling to newcomers especially, hands-off leading only works when you have a group of dedicated skilled individuals, which was so in his case, but could have turned out badly too, sometimes just observes and goes into prolonged periods of inactivity when imo he should be taking action
 

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The question is meaningless. An INTP is characterized by his preferences while leadership is a matter of skill. Competent leaders become competent leaders through tens of thousands of hours of practice, it really has little to do with personality. :mellow:
Totally disagree. I've seen people become managers and months or even years later still show the same (lack of) ability to do the job, despite training.

At the same time, I've seen others take to it like a duck to water, and go on to improve with training.

Ability to be a leader is first and foremost a talent, later increased to be a strength.

Whether the lack of talent has anything to do with personality, I am unsure, but on the whole, think not. Every personality has an ability to be a leader in a given field, based on their personal strengths, and this is not limited by their type, but may limit their field. I was thinking of my field with my former response, I don't think I could lead by example. Give me another career, well maybe I could.
 

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Do INTP's have what it takes to be effective and competent leaders around large numbers of people?

Maybe it's not our cup of tea, but developing leadership skills can help INTP's thrive in this extraverted world a little easier- especially when you are expected to show leadership traits in the workplace.

As for my opinion, I can take control fairly well but I feel that I'm compromising a lot of strengths in the process. And it's very bothersome when the people around you honor charisma more than ideas and respect of the leader.

It also feels like an emotional war fires up in me the whole time: logic battling feelings (a very strenuous process). But if I know what I need to do and what I'm doing, then I can usually get the job done with difficulties.

Posters, any comments thoughts/opinions?
I don't know if it's just me, or all INTPs, but I hate telling people what to do. Why can't they just figure it out for themselves?? :laughing:

I don't think there's any INTP who craves power or wants to lead.

Which would probably makes us pretty good leaders, if we can overcome the constant second-guessing. Sometimes you just have to choose the best possible solution, by thinking and consulting with others, and then do it.

The way the world works today, it's mostly the people who go out of their way to get in power that actually get there.

I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if it was "led" by a council of wise INTPs.
 

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To me, a leader is just the person who takes the initiative to get the group moving towards finishing the objective. Just look at what you think needs to get done, then do all of what's required to get it done. If that means assigning people to do a certain thing, or talking to people to decide on this or that, then that would be what's required for that particular situation.

One thing to not do is to try to impersonate "leader" behaviors, such as yelling at or bossing people around etc. Different people require different approaches to get them motivated, and there are also interpersonal dynamics for worker motivation, so you can't take the same approach to everyone. Some people will try to impersonate an obnoxious drill instructor, but I don't think that makes a leader because they're not leading you towards anything with that kind of behavior, alone. You don't need to fit into a stereotype in order to be a leader.
 

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I wonder, does our lack of motivation count as a disability? :crazy:
I think it's just the way the world doesn't seem to value abstract-creative thinking and theoretical constructs nowadays. It's all just "so how do I make money out of it as soon as possible?"

Sometimes I wish I lived in Ancient Greece, to hang out with Democritus and all those awesome guys back then.

But I digress.
 

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INTPs would probably be good at strategy and making smart decisions for the group as a unit, but not as good at establishing good dynamics within the group. If the group members don't respect logic then an INTP won't have much else to offer.
I've always done best in roles where I'm directing the person who's directing the group.
 

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I personally believe that leading (as a single person) is overrated. Why is so much value and emphasis on depending on a leader for change and progress. From all that I know, the world doesn't rotate around a certain individual or country. We never think about the people behind the scenes (who are just as capable of independent thinking) that make up the demographic. Unfortunately, "at the end of the day" we just congratulate and decorate the leader with extravagant titles. To assume that "leading" is defined by a 1 person dragging along the rest of the population, is primitive.

True leadership is not restricted to rank and title. An advisor can just as well "lead" in the sense that it is not seen by a general population and is contributing greatly to progress. This is the best definition I can give for what makes a true leader in my mind. A person with a rank "President" is possibly more incompetent than a scientist who are both trying to solve the energy crisis, where the latter makes the discovery and contributes to the solution of the problem.

Also, when one strives to become a leader, a red flag is raised in my head because as humans our intentions may not be so selfless but selfish. There are those I can say that want to be leaders because they want recognition, wealth, power, and but not limited to fame which contradicts with how a leader would be contributing in the required progress in the first place. Leading is overrated.
 

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Few times in my life people have told me I could be a great leader, who would have speeches that would be listened like it was comming from a god-like creature. But if I could only simplify my language a bit and relax a little (my brainstorming can be pretty hard to follow).

I don't know... I don't feel any need to lead people towards anything. I like to make them think more and I am pretty sure I achive it often (although many people don't like me because I make them think about their principles, so it makes them uncomfortable).

If there will be a political situation in which I will get my reasons to act like a leader, I could see myself doing it pretty good.
Only time will show.
 

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I used to think the same way you did, until I started to analyze how people thing and why people thought the way they did. Being an INTP or just a NT in generally, we're generally more independent than others. We don't need to know how it's done, we just need to know why it needs to be accomplish and we'll do the how to part. But others need direction and supervision. I'm currently moving into a lead position (not by choice, apparently I'm one of the few competent people enough for the position). And while I wouldn't mind it so much if I could choose my team, I can't and it's extremely frustrating due each teammate being so specialized in an area so they can't see the big picture and how everything is connected.

I personally believe that leading (as a single person) is overrated. Why is so much value and emphasis on depending on a leader for change and progress. From all that I know, the world doesn't rotate around a certain individual or country. We never think about the people behind the scenes (who are just as capable of independent thinking) that make up the demographic. Unfortunately, "at the end of the day" we just congratulate and decorate the leader with extravagant titles. To assume that "leading" is defined by a 1 person dragging along the rest of the population, is primitive.

True leadership is not restricted to rank and title. An advisor can just as well "lead" in the sense that it is not seen by a general population and is contributing greatly to progress. This is the best definition I can give for what makes a true leader in my mind. A person with a rank "President" is possibly more incompetent than a scientist who are both trying to solve the energy crisis, where the latter makes the discovery and contributes to the solution of the problem.

Also, when one strives to become a leader, a red flag is raised in my head because as humans our intentions may not be so selfless but selfish. There are those I can say that want to be leaders because they want recognition, wealth, power, and but not limited to fame which contradicts with how a leader would be contributing in the required progress in the first place. Leading is overrated.
 

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I do think INTP's can be fairly good leaders, if not great. Abraham Lincoln may have been an INTP and we all know how well he led the country during times of crisis. In Please Understand Me II, for instance, David Keirsey explains the strength of NT leadership in detail - mostly how it's based on strategic intelligence. In order to do so, he uses Lincoln as a model of excellence. He had vision; he communicated this vision constantly to those he was leading, and he delegated power to others. Now, I think those are some of the greatest strengths an INTP leader can have, and which we bring to the table as potential leaders: the ability to create a very well-thought out, thorough vision which is all-encompassing, grand, and full of depth. We see where we want to go with great purity, as we tend to have very particular intentions and ideals about the future.

On top of this, INTP's may delegate power; I know when I was in a leadership position, I utilized others with strengths I lacked to actually get the job done effectively. For instance, one of my greatest weaknesses was my inability to effectively persuade and mobilize others - management in general. I cannot manage others for my life. So I - in essence - delegated this responsibility to someone who could: an ENTJ!!! Often times I was so inactive and laxed about the role that people often wondered why the ENTJ wasn't just running things, but I kept my position as the essential director. I knew how I wanted things done; I had effectively created the vision by which the rest of the team would push forward. I had my best second-hand assistants first understand my vision and then spread it out through the rest of the group. It worked rather nicely.

So I do think INTP's can be great leaders, we just need to understand that we have natural weaknesses that we might need help with, which can be done through delegation. What I want done, my second-hand persons carry out, based on their strengths as unique individuals. INTP's seem to bring essentially everything Lincoln brought the table with excellence: vision, communication of that vision, and the ability to delegate responsibility to others, among other things. But that's essentially what I think the INTP strengths tend to be.
 

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Being a leader is just one of those things. You either have it or you don't. If you have to develop it then it wasn't meant to be. When it is natural people just defer to you even when you don't want them to. Sometimes when I go to my husband's office people just start respecting me and treating me like I'm CEO of the company. It's just about having a powerful presence I guess.
Untrue. Not all great leaders were naturally gifted at leadership (in sum). Some knew how to make up for their weaknesses through delegation, as leadership is not always about one person. Surely, the leader should have the most strengths and say-so in any group, but that doesn't mean they should lead alone.

I will say that ExTJ's are natural leaders with the more innate strengths; but I don't think they are the only type fit for leadership - just the most natural. Every type can essentially lead, given the right circumstances.
 

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Yes you can. Just gotta get rid of all that self-doubt. I've seen one example of INTP in leadership position and he did a good job at it. He was pushed into it, so to say, by another INTP no less. I don't think he would have taken it up otherwise as he had little desire to lead anything.

Pros: no desire to micromanage and control people, listens to others, if you ask for clarification he will give you one without going on an ego trip how you should just do it because you were told to (big bonus points over ESTJs here), he seems very logical at least to me, INTJs in the group might think otherwise, no drama, creative coming up with new ideas and solutions, though he doesn't do it as frequently as ENTPs do and his 'recombinations' are smaller scale but usually very well thought out

Cons: sort of aloof so others don't get to know him well which is unsettling to newcomers especially, hands-off leading only works when you have a group of dedicated skilled individuals, which was so in his case, but could have turned out badly too, sometimes just observes and goes into prolonged periods of inactivity when imo he should be taking action
This reminds me: when I was in a leadership position, I left others to their own devices often. Instead of micromanaging them, I'd expect them to be independent enough to conduct themselves appropriately without being told to. Many people seemed to enjoy the freedom and autonomy my leadership brought. I think that's definitely an INTP pro.
 

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I don't know if it's just me, or all INTPs, but I hate telling people what to do. Why can't they just figure it out for themselves?? :laughing:
Hahaha - exactly. I usually just leave people to their own devices (and if they need to be led by the nose, I just delegate that responsibility to someone capable of it). We sort of just assume people should be smart enough to follow the program without much direct leading, but instead with a loose guideline of some sort.

Hence, this INTP poster:



I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if it was "led" by a council of wise INTPs.
Yeah, reminds me of Plato's "philosopher kings." And it's always been my vision that intellectuals should be at the forefront of all decision making in society, while others actually conduct the management and whatnot underneath them.
 
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