[nashe]

it's pretty common to plan a revenge when someone hurts me or tries to disadvantage me ina hurtful way
is there any way to let go of revenge plans?

how can you tell yourself to let go and to stop thinking about plans to even the score? it drives me crazy
from time to time I tell myself that I don't need to do it and that it wouldn't help me but I can't let go
Just like Helen Palmer mentioned in her book- you cannot finish the chapter in your head until you say the last words and you keep on thinking about it on and on

any suggestions? have you tried to block these tendencies? or don't you experience them?

 

[Baby Spidey]

Well... you're going to have to stop and breathe. It's not going to work the first time, but it's a process which you need to work on with your best effort. Maybe take your anger out on something else like a punching bag, even if you need to stab it with a knife and cut it up to pieces like you'd do to that culprit's body. Exercise or do whatever to let that energy out until you're able to think clearer.

 

[bionic]

Oh hey.. why don't you try to good ol' "Hey you hurt my feelings and I hate you." bit? It brings the point all the way home.

Personally, I am rarely passive-aggressive. I communicate how I feel or think - even if it is hurtful. So this whole idea of revenge is foreign. It sounds more like a 6 or 3.

 

[Animal]

Oh hey.. why don't you try to good ol' "Hey you hurt my feelings and I hate you." bit? It brings the point all the way home.

Personally, I am rarely passive-aggressive. I communicate how I feel or think - even if it is hurtful. So this whole idea of revenge is foreign. It sounds more like a 6 or 3.

I had a lot of confusion about the whole 'revenge' bit as well. When I saw lust & innocence and a short description, the minute I encountered enneagram I knew that was my type. Then I saw 'vengeance' as a vice and I said no, that's not me. When I was mistyped at 5 I started a bunch of threads here, trying to sort out my typing because I related to 8 but I did not see 'vengeance' in myself. I've come to realize vengeance is actually present in me, more than I thought. Vengeance is about hanging on to the past and trying to correct it. This can happen without a strategy or a 'revenge plan.' It's unconscious; a compulsion. It is not about getting revenge on this or that 'specific person' but rather getting revenge in a wider sense. Naranjo phrases it well:

It is the angry and punitive characteristic of ennea-type VIII Ichazo addresses in his calling the fixation of the lusty “revenge.” The word, however, has the drawback of being associated with the most overtly vindictive of the characters, ennea-type IV, whose hatefulness sometimes manifests in explicit vendettas. In this overt sense type VIII is not strikingly vindictive; on the contrary, the character retaliates angrily at the moment and gets quickly over his irritation. The revenge which is most present in ennea-type VIII is (aside from “getting even” in the immediate response) a long-term one, in which the individual takes justice in his own hands in response to the pain, humiliation, and impotence felt in early childhood. It is as if he wanted to turn the tables on the world and, after having suffered frustration or humiliation for the pleasure of others, has determined that it is now his turn to have pleasure even if it involves the pain of others. Or especially then—for in this, too, may lie revenge.

I don't take pleasure in the pain of others, I'll say that right now. However I relate to vengeance in the sense that I always 'take back what's mine' in terms of taking justice in my own hands. I always stand up for what I believe, go for what I want and take the stance I feel is just regardless of what I am told to do.

In short, I interpret type 8 vengeance as taking control of your destiny because nobody else is going to do it for you, ad you're not going to sit back and let the world kick you around. But also, it is a compulsion to hang on to your past and try to 'correct it' by keeping your power, where in the past, perhaps you felt control or power was taken away from you when you allowed yourself to be vulnerable. I hang on to my past... I'm an SX type, so my problems are focused in the areas of intimacy unfortunately. I was hurt badly in romance (not to mention daddy issues) and now I never let anyone in that much because I refuse to be hurt again. I always "keep the power." It's not how I ideally think love should be, or how I would want to behave in a relationship. It's a compulsion: vengeance. Correcting the past. Taking control.


I know there are 8s who disagree with this however. I won't go so far as to claim they're mistyped and I'm properly typed. I'm curious how others relate to it and their typing journey is their own business; but I think it's good to discuss concepts like this so that people can figure out their typing for themselves, and also, if they are typed correctly, learn more about themselves; maybe come to terms with things they didn't realize in themselves.

 

[DoctorYikes]

Yeah, 'Revenge' can be a tricky one. Generally, if I'm pissed off there's no big secret of it... and if I'm away from the situation I tend to forget about it. It's just not a great combination for being the vengeful sort. Now, outside of that somewhat analytically-assessed version, I THINK I'm pretty 'vengeful', but maybe 'reactive' would be a better word.

Generally speaking, nobody needs to worry if I'm out there Plotting Revenge on them. If I had something like that brewing, I'd have already paid a visit, or I've decided the pros/cons didn't play out.

 

[Animal]

Yeah, 'Revenge' can be a tricky one. Generally, if I'm pissed off there's no big secret of it... and if I'm away from the situation I tend to forget about it. It's just not a great combination for being the vengeful sort. Now, outside of that somewhat analytically-assessed version, I THINK I'm pretty 'vengeful', but maybe 'reactive' would be a better word.

Generally speaking, nobody needs to worry if I'm out there Plotting Revenge on them. If I had something like that brewing, I'd have already paid a visit, or I've decided the pros/cons didn't play out.

Agreed. People know exactly where I stand. No secret/ hidden/ ulterior motives here. Unless I'm unaware of them myself. The one exception may be I secretly dream of getting in someone's pants but I' too shy to hit on them.. yet. But I don't use people; I'm tremendously demisexual, so that's still not exactly a 'hidden motive' considering I would still be their friend and adore them as a person either way - and if they didn't want me in the end i'd go right back to being their friend with very little problem, and I'd probably feel even closer to them because we "got that conversation out of the way."

 

[DoctorYikes]

Agreed. People know exactly where I stand. No secret/ hidden/ ulterior motives here. Unless I'm unaware of them myself. The one exception may be I secretly dream of getting in someone's pants but I' too shy to hit on them.. yet. But I don't use people; I'm tremendously demisexual, so that's still not exactly a 'hidden motive' considering I would still be their friend and adore them as a person either way - and if they didn't want me in the end i'd go right back to being their friend with very little problem, and I'd probably feel even closer to them because we "got that conversation out of the way."

Even less complicated over here in Being a Dude land. I'm usually somewhere in obliviousness regarding attraction, and by merit of testosterone, the answer to almost any 'Would you hit that?' question is invariably, "Yeah, probably." Actually having any sort of fondness for any given person exists on a whole other plane.

It's MUCH easier, these days. "Married, thus Irrelevant."

 

[HellCat]

I work out until I can't move or do other fun things to purge my anger.

 

[Animal]

I work out until I can't move or do other fun things to purge my anger.

YES that is the best method =P

 

[dfoster]

it's pretty common to plan a revenge when someone hurts me or tries to disadvantage me ina hurtful way
is there any way to let go of revenge plans?

how can you tell yourself to let go and to stop thinking about plans to even the score? it drives me crazy
from time to time I tell myself that I don't need to do it and that it wouldn't help me but I can't let go
Just like Helen Palmer mentioned in her book- you cannot finish the chapter in your head until you say the last words and you keep on thinking about it on and on

any suggestions? have you tried to block these tendencies? or don't you experience them?

Revenge is an Eight's identity (ego-venge) You'll need to go deeper than Palmer to get to it. You need to understand why. I suggest Naranjo's description of 8's (now in the stickies) and then Almaas's Facets of Unity. If you wanna do it right, go all the way. None of the fluffy stuff or self-help Enneagram books will help you.

 

[mimesis]

I work out until I can't move or do other fun things to purge my anger.

YES that is the best method =P

It's good because you use the stress hormones that are released and prepared your body for action (fight-or-flight response), and to prevent it affect your immune system, if you would just try to repress your anger.

 

[Animal]

It's good because you use the stress hormones that are released and prepared your body for action (fight-or-flight response), and to prevent it affect your immune system, if you would just try to repress your anger.

Yes. I wrote about this in this thread here:

http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-forum-challenger/155440-how-do-you-deal.html#post3965964

 

[mimesis]

Yes. I wrote about this in this thread here:

http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-forum-challenger/155440-how-do-you-deal.html#post3965964

Yep I see. You and @LeoCat talk about 'purging anger', which I don't disagree with, but my point was more literally purging your blood from toxic levels that are harmful for your body, because it suppresses low priority activity such as the immune system and digestion, and on the long term this may result in various (auto-immune) diseases and depression.

Not sure if this clip starts at the right spot, but you can start at 5:20

It's more about repressing anger (and even not being aware of it), and I'm not sure if that is an option for an 8. :laughing: Idk, you tell me.

But he also talks about protecting boundaries , which may be the focus of 8s fixation and perhaps in that respect the example of baseball player Lou Gehrig is relevant, in particular for 8w9. At least, it reminded me of a story an 8 told a while ago, about walking around with fractured bones, I believe it was @DoctorYikes (but correct me if I'm wrong).

The following have been found by many to be very helpful in relaxing the body and mind, aiding the body in maintaining healthy cortisol levels:

• Guided Imagery
• Journaling
• Self-Hypnosis
• Exercise
• Yoga
• Listening to Music
• Breathing Exercises
• Meditation
• Sex
• Other Techniques

(I also saw laughing and (regular) dancing listed on the wiki page of Cortisol)

Cortisol and Stress: How Cortisol Affects Your Body, and How To Stay Healthy in the Face of Stress
​

While working out and listening to music (and the others mentioned above) may be good to regulate /relief stress and anger, and direct (objectification) intensity (or lust if you will), the boundary /control issue itself still needs to be resolved of course. But it will no doubt help preventing it to intensify through fixation on vengeance.

 

[Chesire Tower]

I never think about that, because the odd time it actually fell right I to my lap and I didn't even have to do anything to make it happen; it didn't make me feel any better. Moving on and living well, is really the best revenge.

 

[Forget]

Maybe you could just relax and plan eye for an eye in peace. In a more serious manner, from my own experience, revenge or, setting scores, comes naturally and I don't stress about it.

 

[HellCat]

I love your snakebites @Forget

 

[Forget]

I love your snakebites @Forget

Woah, thanks! They are actually my favorite piercings.. Longed for them since I was 11 years old..

 

[HellCat]

How do you take revenge on a parrot? 3 times this week my parrot has made a mess of me and it ends with me naked screaming in the shower because hes digging his talons in my shoulder and climbing my hair like Errol Flynn.

 

[n2freedom]

Revenge is an Eight's identity (ego-venge) You'll need to go deeper than Palmer to get to it. You need to understand why. I suggest Naranjo's description of 8's (now in the stickies) and then Almaas's Facets of Unity. If you wanna do it right, go all the way. None of the fluffy stuff or self-help Enneagram books will help you.

Good advice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I need something in addition to self-help. I've booked an appointment to see a psychologist. I'm tired of hearing romantic partners tell me that they are afraid of me. Before self-awareness it didn't phase me one bit but with self-awareness I know if I don't get to the root cause of my crazies then I will never have a successful romantic relationship.

Before self-awareness I would put the blame on them....numb myself up...find something else to invest my energy in and keep it moving and just tell myself....lived without you before and I can live without you now....I don't need anyone....came in this world alone will leave alone. Then would restructure my life mentally and physically in such a way the person was just a fleeting memory along with whatever I felt for them. I could do this so well that I wouldn't even be able to identify with any feelings of care and/or concern for the person...it's like I could completely disassociate in a way that the person really was dead to me for all intents and purposes.

I find the revenge part of my personality to be deep rooted .... often times I'm not aware I even do it. If someone had told me before coming to the Enneagram that I did this I would have denied it to the hilt as I didn't see just how vindictive I can be. I have really hurt people and caused a lot of damage in my personal relationships when I do this. I feel like a complete monster. After self awareness the ironic part is as important as trust is to me...I couldn't connect the dots that to turn on a dime like this with people I love and care for is ironically being totally untrustworthy.

Who can trust a person that can turn on a dime and treat you like you are the red flag and they are the raging bull?!? It's just too much to ask of people. I pride myself on being fair too. But have I been fair? Is it fair to turn on those that I love and care for in this manner and attack their weaknesses and vulnerabilities?!? The very thing that I fear...the very thing that I value..I've been doing it to others in the name of exacting lessons for their perceived offenses?!? Yes, with self awareness I feel like a complete monster and I don't trust myself not to do this to people I care about and love.

I remorsefully and regretfully admit I can be so heartless when I exact my lessons. See that's what I called it teaching them a lesson..didn't see it as revenge before. I justified it in my mind as I will teach you not to ____________...fill in the blank with whatever I thought was the perceived injustice (after all they deserved it at least that's what I told myself). And, because I have an uncanny knack of seeing the "real" person behind the mask complete with their weaknesses and vulnerabilities...I usually end up hurting/wounding the other person pretty deep.

I've made a lot of progress thru self-help the past 2-3 years but in June I realized I still have a very, very, very long way to go because I did it again and may have caused a permanent rift in a friendship that I truly treasured. I've been watching myself every since the incidence and sometimes I have to shake my head at myself for some of the crazy, mean shit I tend to do to people to get back at them when I feel deeply hurt by them.

I'm tired of living this way...it's crazy. I need professional help. I found a psychologist versed in the enneagram and other treatment therapies for people who suffer with PTSD. I hope I can get this subconscious bullshit sorted out and repaired once and for all.

 

[dfoster]

That's awesome, n2. I believe people are not "monsters" without a cause. Hurt people hurt people, so I trust that once these wounds are brought to light, the healing process will begin. I'm very encouraged that this will be the case. If we can learn to love from all circumstances of our unique journey, then it would have been all worth it.