Personality Cafe banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Let us commence the one liners. Let us talk a bit about social rules and conventions. Again...? Yes again. I found myself trying to adapt really hard to all of those unwritten social rules. After a while as many of you probably did ,I realized that this is nothing more than a sick twisted game. Nothing new so far? Read on..

INTJs or whatever you may call our personality type are percieved as distant and cold. More stereotypes please.... If you have played this shitty game long enough you will start to realize that most people are in fact sick fucks. Let me give you a recent example. Let us suppose you meet a at first glance really nice introverted girl, shy and all that. Well you take her home and what happens? This supposedly shy girl asks you to stick your shower head you know where.. while strangling her..

This is just one example of this twisted game. So.. People may perceive me/us as psycho but in reality we are probably the least sick of all. My iQ or by whatever nonsense standard you measure your level of intelligence is way above normal. Hurray! Enjoy your life in the shadow of the stupid mass.

Well here is my advice to younger iNTJs: ignore those pseudo social roules. They do not apply for intelligent human beings. In fact the more you ignore them, the more successful you will become in every part of your live.

If I do not get banned for this post, I will enjoy the discussion. Come at me. Challenge me. But please spare me the underage college pseudo wisdom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
First off-what's wrong with a "nice" girl wanting to be kinky? Sounds like you've got a madonna/whore complex.

Second, not everyone is "bad," however you want to define that. In fact I've found that most people are well-meaning. Keep in mind that usually you find what you look for.

Finally, social niceties are annoying, but they serve a purpose. Ignoring social rules (the necessary ones, at least) will accomplish nothing. It'll just make people not want to help you, and unless you're a super genius, it's going to be hard to succeed without at least a bit of help (funding, etc.).

I don't want to start a debate. I think I get where you're coming from. But life can't always be what you prefer ('you' as in 'people'), and that doesn't make it bad. The cliche's true: it's what you make it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
First off-what's wrong with a "nice" girl wanting to be kinky? Sounds like you've got a madonna/whore complex.

Second, not everyone is "bad," however you want to define that. In fact I've found that most people are well-meaning. Keep in mind that usually you find what you look for.

Finally, social niceties are annoying, but they serve a purpose. Ignoring social rules (the necessary ones, at least) will accomplish nothing. It'll just make people not want to help you, and unless you're a super genius, it's going to be hard to succeed without at least a bit of help (funding, etc.).

I don't want to start a debate. I think I get where you're coming from. But life can't always be what you prefer ('you' as in 'people'), and that doesn't make it bad. The cliche's true: it's what you make it.
Sadly I do not have the capability to cite you line by line on this noob device. Do I have a Madonna/Whore complex? No. Do I have something against kinky girls? No..

I never said everyone is bad. What I meant is that everyone plays a pseudo social game which is designed to hide your true personality.

Social niceties as you call them are frequently abused by the media, your boss, your friends and so on and so on.. Relationships are basically a mutual manipulation. Deal with it.

Last but not least how can you assume to know where I come from?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
@neveragain Oh, I see. I misunderstood you. But of course people hide parts of themselves. Arguably that is a part of what keeps society functioning (though whether it's good or not is another story!). If everyone demonstrated "their true selves" all the time, things would never get done. That's what friends are for, to some extent: someone to whom you can show most or all of "yourself."

I misunderstood the entire tone of your post. I was projecting onto your statements things that I had formerly felt, so my apologies. In the past I had the assumption that most people were bad/simple/stupid and only for themselves etc. I may not know your perspective. I probably don't.

You say relationships are "mutual manipulations." That's certainly one way of looking at them. In fact I don't disagree. But if it's the case that I/you/people benefit from it, is that a bad thing? Social niceties are often abused, but usually it's easy to tell or at least use them to your advantage. For example, "small talk" is usually annoying, but it's purpose is not inherently "abusive"...although one could use it to make someone else more/less receptive to some idea. That's the point, really, to make people more receptive. But why is that bad? If the game is easy to see past, and is necessary for most to some degree, what makes it bad and worth skipping out on? (Rhetorical, but you can answer if you want!) It seems you're looking at these structures as some cruel, sick thing being forced upon you (or at least I used to feel that way), but I prefer to look at them differently, as the "oil" that keeps society's "machine" going smoothly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
408 Posts
yes, these social rituals are silly. You can decide to have a completely utilitarian approach to them, since they do at least present you with the utility of a tried and tested way to elicit this or that pavlovian response from people. Almost all people are quite predictable (by which i mean that the patterns of their behaviour, not necessarily the particular way they manifest themselves in detail, are easily learned ). You don't have to 'believe' in the social niceties and other things that seem as superficial as they are rehearsed, to see and use them for what they are: a tried and tested way of getting the desired response for this or that person, in the fastest , most effective way. In many cases in everyday life you find yourself in a position where you want very particular things from particular people. In most of these cases the most effective way of getting them to do what you want is to follow a path their predictable, conditioned brains have most likely learned to respond to
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,795 Posts
lol @ the shy girl.

The problem with not playing the social game, is that you can end up alone. And if you happen to want relationships, well, you have to play *to some extent*.

Sure, a life without romantic relationships will probably make you more successful career-wise. But if you consider having "it all" as your version of what success looks like, then, you're gonna have to somewhat play. That or, find another INTJ to shack up with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
lol @ the shy girl.

The problem with not playing the social game, is that you can end up alone. And if you happen to want relationships, well, you have to play *to some extent*.

Sure, a life without romantic relationships will probably make you more successful career-wise. But if you consider having "it all" as your version of what success looks like, then, you're gonna have to somewhat play. That or, find another INTJ to shack up with.
Man, I would love to be in a relationship where "the rules" didn't apply.

Boyfriend: *comes home from a long day at work* Let's talk religion.
Me: Nah, let's discuss the meaning of life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,249 Posts
Honesty: If we all revealed all of our kinks, we'd probably make at least a quarter of the world want to go running screaming and puking through the woods...

That said though, we hide those things so that we can stand each other enough to work beside each other. This working together is what makes civilization. If I can only stand working with X, Y, and Z people because of [whatever] then that leaves a lot of otherwise-potentially-fascinating and worthwhile collaboration unavailable. I would end up reinventing the wheel over-and-over because I don't know what has been done before. It would be frustrating and ultimately a futile waste of time.

In an ideal world, who cares that Alan Turing was gay: he was an excellent scientist, top of his field, had insights that basically won WWII for the Allies, and set the foundations for the entire computer revolution. In the real world, most people are a mess of neuroses and prejudices: which is why Alan Turing was convicted of indecency and injected with stilboestrol, leaving him impotent and giving him gynecomastia.

At any rate, deciding to "not participate" socially will only get you ostracized in some manner. Even a super-super-genius requires some help: assistance with building things, funding for space and equipment, time to think properly without having to be preoccupied with putting food on the table, etc. This is not conducive to an efficient personal- or work-life.

Social conventions surround us, developed over thousands of years. We can flout them and be left in the cold because nobody will want to hire us or be around us. We can work within them and have a life of relative ease and be able to achieve something that we think is worthwhile.

The choice is ours, so long as we recognize the potential consequences of our actions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
lol @ the shy girl.

The problem with not playing the social game, is that you can end up alone. And if you happen to want relationships, well, you have to play *to some extent*.

Sure, a life without romantic relationships will probably make you more successful career-wise. But if you consider having "it all" as your version of what success looks like, then, you're gonna have to somewhat play. That or, find another INTJ to shack up with.
I don't think of a family as being part of my version of what success looks like. I'd hate to be in a marriage where I'd say "Whelp, this is what success looks like." I'm perfectly fine ending up alone ^.^ Actually the new Time magazine has a article on this very subject.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,928 Posts
Honesty: If we all revealed all of our kinks, we'd probably make at least a quarter of the world want to go running screaming and puking through the woods...

That said though, we hide those things so that we can stand each other enough to work beside each other. This working together is what makes civilization. If I can only stand working with X, Y, and Z people because of [whatever] then that leaves a lot of otherwise-potentially-fascinating and worthwhile collaboration unavailable. I would end up reinventing the wheel over-and-over because I don't know what has been done before. It would be frustrating and ultimately a futile waste of time.

In an ideal world, who cares that Alan Turing was gay: he was an excellent scientist, top of his field, had insights that basically won WWII for the Allies, and set the foundations for the entire computer revolution. In the real world, most people are a mess of neuroses and prejudices: which is why Alan Turing was convicted of indecency and injected with stilboestrol, leaving him impotent and giving him gynecomastia.

At any rate, deciding to "not participate" socially will only get you ostracized in some manner. Even a super-super-genius requires some help: assistance with building things, funding for space and equipment, time to think properly without having to be preoccupied with putting food on the table, etc. This is not conducive to an efficient personal- or work-life.

Social conventions surround us, developed over thousands of years. We can flout them and be left in the cold because nobody will want to hire us or be around us. We can work within them and have a life of relative ease and be able to achieve something that we think is worthwhile.

The choice is ours, so long as we recognize the potential consequences of our actions.
So your point is that because people are naturally going to hate some people and like others, the social niceties are there to cover that up? I see that, but do you think people understand this? That's kind of what I'm curious about... do people generally have the awareness of where their own actions come from? And if they did, would this be a good thing?

Because in order for society to operate efficiently, personal likes and goals, like you said, must be sacrificed.

But then the people that are aware of this just kind of abuse it. What is this actually for? To keep the monkeys from assaulting? To keep the ignorant at bay?

And I'm not attacking you, just expressing frustration at this facet of reality.

Anyway... our systems will probably naturally move to a convergence point as society gains knowledge and loosens its bonds on the ephemeral, but for now, this sucks.

Actually, disregard this. This is what happens when I try to feign giving a crap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,249 Posts
So your point is that because people are naturally going to hate some people and like others, the social niceties are there to cover that up? I see that, but do you think people understand this? That's kind of what I'm curious about... do people generally have the awareness of where their own actions come from? And if they did, would this be a good thing?

Because in order for society to operate efficiently, personal likes and goals, like you said, must be sacrificed.

But then the people that are aware of this just kind of abuse it. What is this actually for? To keep the monkeys from assaulting? To keep the ignorant at bay?

And I'm not attacking you, just expressing frustration at this facet of reality.

Anyway... our systems will probably naturally move to a convergence point as society gains knowledge and loosens its bonds on the ephemeral, but for now, this sucks.

Actually, disregard this. This is what happens when I try to feign giving a crap.
I know you're not attacking me, don't worry about that. It can be very frustrating.

IMV the social niceties are also there to encourage us to hide the things that might cause us to dislike/hate each other.

I don't think that most people have an awareness of where their actions come from. If they did, I would expect them to be more rational about things they do - and there would be (for example) less incidents of violence.

You're probably correct, we will move naturally towards that convergence point. Somehow I think that it will be a while away though. It might be a race between collapse and convergence.

Cheers!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Priva

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,928 Posts
I know you're not attacking me, don't worry about that. It can be very frustrating.

IMV the social niceties are also there to encourage us to hide the things that might cause us to dislike/hate each other.

I don't think that most people have an awareness of where their actions come from. If they did, I would expect them to be more rational about things they do - and there would be (for example) less incidents of violence.

You're probably correct, we will move naturally towards that convergence point. Somehow I think that it will be a while away though. It might be a race between collapse and convergence.

Cheers!
Definitely. And there will be some tyranny in between that I know some people would definitely not approve of. However, this is ignoring the fact that we are a product of many tyrannies, just not the ones commonly publicized, and that people accept these as a way of life because that's what they are most accustomed to handling.

For example, I often bring up the society offered in Brave New World. Now, in a land where happiness is given to everyone regardless of their actual position in society, it eliminates the discontent of having to fight against others to attain a modicum of satisfaction. You just perform your job at exactly the same level of happiness as everyone else, and move on.

Now this seems terrible if you're looking at it from something other than the POV of someone who just wants to be happy no matter what- like the point of someone who values naturalism over such an artificial setting(which draws parallels to social niceties) or values freedom, even at the cost of being miserable(which doesn't seem possible to me because you wouldn't be "miserable" if you had actualized what defines your sense of being content, but that's another story).

However, to the people born in that society, they would be happy. Now, the question here is whether there would be some that disavow happiness. And personally, I just don't see that happening, if they are truly happy, and not considering side effects of method(chemicals not properly adjusted to an individual psyche).

The convergence point will take this level of trial and error(jumping societies) over a, like you said, pretty long time. However, once we reach convergence, there will be no better possible way of organizing our society. So are we willing to give up our lives now for the future? No, most people aren't. But I think it'd be interesting to be able to map people based on detailed science and run a simulation to find such a convergence point.

And this is way off topic haha.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,610 Posts
In practice you are not classified as crazy because you are crazy.

You are classified as crazy because you lose or otherwise warp the societal inhibition to hide it.

This extends to formal medical practice according to my med friends, funnily enough.

Welcome to society.

Don't assume sanity. Don't assume morality. Don't assume integrity.

Walk into it with your brain switched on and rack up a lot of experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
@neveragain Oh, I see. I misunderstood you. But of course people hide parts of themselves. Arguably that is a part of what keeps society functioning (though whether it's good or not is another story!). If everyone demonstrated "their true selves" all the time, things would never get done. That's what friends are for, to some extent: someone to whom you can show most or all of "yourself."
The girl he mentioned was pretending - making false impression. It's not about inefficiency, but dishonesty.

I misunderstood the entire tone of your post. I was projecting onto your statements things that I had formerly felt, so my apologies.

Btw, this sounds like a strong Ti, you might be INTP.


Sadly I do not have the capability to cite you line by line on this noob device. Do I have a Madonna/Whore complex? No. Do I have something against kinky girls? No..

I never said everyone is bad. What I meant is that everyone plays a pseudo social game which is designed to hide your true personality.

Social niceties as you call them are frequently abused by the media, your boss, your friends and so on and so on.. Relationships are basically a mutual manipulation. Deal with it.

Social psychology is about 700 pages long issue, but it's good to keep in mind also that when a female is honest about being kinky she's often spat at and labeled as slut (not uncommonly by other real sluts). So there really isn't much to do, but keep it private.

Yup, relationships are social exchange. It's about taking and giving, mutual benefits and interests and whole lotta people getting (over)excited about it.


I remember my 'naive' self when I was repulsed (and still am) after finding out that males and females who go to study together, have different sort of studying in mind from the sort they claimed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
488 Posts
@Aenye But honesty will lead to inefficiency. As with your example, a kinky girl faces discrimination if she's honest with others, and that will lead to the unnecessary steps of her convincing others her input is still valid despite that fact, etc...

Hm, suppose I could be (usually I'm partial to Te though). I don't usually do that, though.

Your last paragraph made me laugh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
@Aenye But honesty will lead to inefficiency. As with your example, a kinky girl faces discrimination if she's honest with others, and that will lead to the unnecessary steps of her convincing others her input is still valid despite that fact, etc...

Exactly my point. But it's still hard not to be repulsed and disappointed after such revelations.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top