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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Context:

Some INTPs have underdeveloped Ti. Life can be excruciating for these INTPs.

So....Games, role-playing, etc...Let's find ways to attain healthy development for our type.

EDIT:

Second Context: Actively developing Ti will be cool, since it's something we're good at. Let's find ways to actively develop Ti.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
- Over-reliance on Fe. Often makes decisions based on other people's opinions, without evaluating the truth behind these opinions. Takes things very personally.
- Hyper-active Ne: often giving in to the need to gather information incessantly.
 

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Teach me Ti, i don't know enough about this function.
 

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Teach me Ti, i don't know enough about this function.
It's always hard to explain a function that you don't have as one of your four, but I'd like to give it a try. You have Te, so your thinking function is trying to bring logic to the outside world, whereas my Ti is trying to neaten up my general principles and axioms (ie an internal concept, hence introverted thinking) is a pretty close approximation, though.
 

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- Over-reliance on Fe. Often makes decisions based on other people's opinions, without evaluating the truth behind these opinions. Takes things very personally.
- Hyper-active Ne: often giving in to the need to gather information incessantly.
Heh. So they basically become entps then.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Except that our Fe is just as bad as a well developed INTP, our Ne is slightly less competent than an ENTP's, and our Si is still better than an ENTP's.

We don't become another Type just because we are under-developed. We just become a crappier version of our Type. Something like this:

Dominant Function: Level A/Level 90
Auxiliary Function: Level B/Level 65
Tertiary Function: Level C/Level 35
Inferior Function: Level D/Level 10

So, an ENTP can level up his Ne to Level 90, but we can only reach Level 65 with our Ne. Hence, if our dominant function is under-developed, we become a crappier version of INTPs.
 

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It's always hard to explain a function that you don't have as one of your four, but I'd like to give it a try. You have Te, so your thinking function is trying to bring logic to the outside world, whereas my Ti is trying to neaten up my general principles and axioms (ie an internal concept, hence introverted thinking) is a pretty close approximation, though.
Thanks. So does this mean you already have pre-determined notions of this logic internally without any influence from the outside world ? I realize Ti like Fi is subjective. Does Ti regard any external opinions in their final results of what they are thinking, or trying to figure out ? Or is it more like Fi, having an internal compass of what is logical that filter and sort when making decisions.?
 

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What do you mean by underdeveloped? It is assumed that all INTPs will be using Ti for the majority of the day as it is their dominant function.
 

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An INTP with an underdeveloped Ti is like a rudderless ship. I've met one and he made me sad.

Ti is the philosopher sitting in his study who says, "makes sense to me" where as Te is a scientist looking at a chalkboard with a colleague who says, "makes perfect sense, what do you think?"

Writing is a good way to develop Ti as it forces you to order and systematize what you're thinking into cogent patters. As per my philosopher analogy above, "makes sense to me" doesn't mean shit unless you can explain it to someone else, which can be very hard to do.

Another way to say it is that the INTP brain is magical, with the infinite, creative flexibility of Ne and Ti trying to make sense of it all. The problem is that this is seldom constrained by language. Learning to place verbal constraints on Ti/Ne is a way to focus the power of Ti.
 

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- Over-reliance on Fe. Often makes decisions based on other people's opinions, without evaluating the truth behind these opinions. Takes things very personally.
- Hyper-active Ne: often giving in to the need to gather information incessantly.
Sounds like me. :unsure:
 

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For dominant introverted thinkers, the auxiliary function (Ne) must be used to supply information to support thinking. In the book, Gifts Differing, it says that if an INTP does not use their Ne as a tool of perception for the Ti to find solutions to, then the INTP may be unproductive in thinking or forming new ideas. But intuition can give insights and new ideas from the world, which the INTP will find the underlying patterns to. Ne and Ti working together will give the INTP data to chew on. For example, if I read a poem, I can find the theme from the meaning of the words, use evidence from the poem or outside the poem to support my main idea, find connotations of the words to other ideas, and so on. My perception of the information in the poem will give me insight that I can take apart with my Ti and organize into a sensible model. In turn, Ne can help me connect the dots between what I examined to the tiniest details.
 
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Thanks. So does this mean you already have pre-determined notions of this logic internally without any influence from the outside world ? I realize Ti like Fi is subjective. Does Ti regard any external opinions in their final results of what they are thinking, or trying to figure out ? Or is it more like Fi, having an internal compass of what is logical that filter and sort when making decisions.?
I think it is predetermined, since the whys and wheretofors of Ti are pretty invisible to me. It just exists as a process that occurs. I recognize it in action because it tends to act as an editor for me; a significance generator, what's worth seeing. I think since that's kind of what Fi does with it's internal compass of 'is this important?' Just that what's important to me isn't as much on a moral dimension as a practical one.
 

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Some INTPs have underdeveloped Ti. Life can be excruciating for these INTPs
Life can be excruciating for those with overactive Ti as well. Being stuck on thought loops is not fun. It just leads to madness.
 

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Except that our Fe is just as bad as a well developed INTP, our Ne is slightly less competent than an ENTP's, and our Si is still better than an ENTP's.

We don't become another Type just because we are under-developed. We just become a crappier version of our Type. Something like this:

Dominant Function: Level A/Level 90
Auxiliary Function: Level B/Level 65
Tertiary Function: Level C/Level 35
Inferior Function: Level D/Level 10

So, an ENTP can level up his Ne to Level 90, but we can only reach Level 65 with our Ne. Hence, if our dominant function is under-developed, we become a crappier version of INTPs.
Well said. Leaving Ti underdeveloped is a waste, throwing away where you most naturally shine. It doesn't make your lower functions any better, it just makes your greatest source of natural talent worse.

Sometimes I worry my Ti isn't up to snuff where it should be for an INTP...it's well developed, don't get me wrong, but other INTP's seem to be much better at noticing logical inconsistencies than I am.

I don't think there are limits on functional development per se though (re: your "levels"), only that realistically you'll always be better at your higher functions. It's easier to use them and you get more out of them. With the lower functions you put in more to get less. That doesn't mean you ought to let them sit there and rot. That's throwing away a part of yourself too. I enjoy using my Fe...I've even been told by several people I have a lot of stereotypically Fe-related talents. It only means that you shouldn't overrely on them. Your dominant function should always take the lead if you want to shine as a person. But I don't think your functions really ever stop developing unless you let them.
 

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A great way to develop Ti lies not just in activities you do, but your approach to life. Being skeptical about everything you hear, analyzing it for logical inconsistencies, finding weak spots where ideas could be improved...no matter what it involves, bringing this attitude to all parts life (unless it is obviously inappropriate) can help you really flex your muscles as an INTP. :happy:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
What do you mean by underdeveloped? It is assumed that all INTPs will be using Ti for the majority of the day as it is their dominant function.
Do you not think that nurture and epigenetics have a say on your cognitive development? Consider INTPs raised by SFJ parents and surrounded by SJs. Their Tert and Inf functions will have more opportunity to develop, while their main functions will have less opportunity to develop.

In Gifts Differing, Myers Briggs also mentioned the need to apply functions appropriately. This is related to what I'm saying. The more opportunity you have to use your functions, the more you understand where and when to use it. Hence, with the case above, the INTP would be applying their Fe and Si more often than their Ti.

I remember as a kid I didn't get to use my Ti much, because my parents don't think critically; they often don't question facts being presented to them (Fe), and things that they experience they believe is definitely true for everyone (Si). In school I'm often taught how to do things (S-oriented) but not why I should do those things and why those things actually work. Asking "why" questions often invoke moments of silence.

My Ne was allowed free rein, however, as my SJ parents were not too controlling of my actions. I play MMOs, which sparked my imagination, read all kinds of things on the internet and try out all kinds of extra-curricular activities in school.

An INTP with an underdeveloped Ti is like a rudderless ship. I've met one and he made me sad.

Ti is the philosopher sitting in his study who says, "makes sense to me" where as Te is a scientist looking at a chalkboard with a colleague who says, "makes perfect sense, what do you think?"

Writing is a good way to develop Ti as it forces you to order and systematize what you're thinking into cogent patters. As per my philosopher analogy above, "makes sense to me" doesn't mean shit unless you can explain it to someone else, which can be very hard to do.

Another way to say it is that the INTP brain is magical, with the infinite, creative flexibility of Ne and Ti trying to make sense of it all. The problem is that this is seldom constrained by language. Learning to place verbal constraints on Ti/Ne is a way to focus the power of Ti.
In my experience, it is true that I have difficulty vocalizing my arguments/reasoning. That's probably the reason why INTPs are prone to employ precise language; we wish to capture the essence of what we're trying to say. Also explains why my explanations and arguments are more refined in writing than when speaking.

Thanks. So does this mean you already have pre-determined notions of this logic internally without any influence from the outside world ? I realize Ti like Fi is subjective. Does Ti regard any external opinions in their final results of what they are thinking, or trying to figure out ? Or is it more like Fi, having an internal compass of what is logical that filter and sort when making decisions.?
Ti often determines the truth value of whatever opinion received based on what he has experienced and/or read. Like Te though, it would still employ objective logic to evaluate it. When it comes to making conclusions about something, there are two things that come in play: content and reasoning skill. The reasoning skill of the Ti is the same as other evaluation functions (though I still doubt the logical abilities of Feelers based on current experience...no offense...noticed how I referenced personal experience to determine truth), but the content often comes from his own experience, as opposed to what is empirically or a-priorily proven to be true.

The introverted nature of the Ti function also manifest in a different way compared to Te/Fe: whatever arguments that do not involve or concern the individual, he will most likely not debate it. This is a form of expedience exhibited by introverted functions. Extroverted functions on the other hand would still debate or at least vocalize their opinions on something even though it does not concern them.

Life can be excruciating for those with overactive Ti as well. Being stuck on thought loops is not fun. It just leads to madness.
Firstly, you can choose to break away from those loops. Often, it can be broken by interacting with external reality more. In other words, take action.

Secondly, those with overactive Ti will do well to develop Ne, or if Ne is already sufficiently developed, the other two functions. This will allow the other functions to 'balance' the overactivity of Ti.

A great way to develop Ti lies not just in activities you do, but your approach to life. Being skeptical about everything you hear, analyzing it for logical inconsistencies, finding weak spots where ideas could be improved...no matter what it involves, bringing this attitude to all parts life (unless it is obviously inappropriate) can help you really flex your muscles as an INTP. :happy:
Yes, I agree with this. This is how I approach life most of the time, these days, having been influenced by an INTJ.

Well said. Leaving Ti underdeveloped is a waste, throwing away where you most naturally shine. It doesn't make your lower functions any better, it just makes your greatest source of natural talent worse.

Sometimes I worry my Ti isn't up to snuff where it should be for an INTP...it's well developed, don't get me wrong, but other INTP's seem to be much better at noticing logical inconsistencies than I am.

I don't think there are limits on functional development per se though (re: your "levels"), only that realistically you'll always be better at your higher functions. It's easier to use them and you get more out of them. With the lower functions you put in more to get less. That doesn't mean you ought to let them sit there and rot. That's throwing away a part of yourself too. I enjoy using my Fe...I've even been told by several people I have a lot of stereotypically Fe-related talents. It only means that you shouldn't overrely on them. Your dominant function should always take the lead if you want to shine as a person. But I don't think your functions really ever stop developing unless you let them.
The max values are arbitrary; I'm simply trying to express the potential of each function according to its position in the functional stack.

Yes, that's another possible model. We could express it like this:


"1. EXP to Next Level (for all functions at every level): kL, where k is a constant and L = Current Level.

2. EXP Gained per x unit of activity:

Dominant: ax + W
Auxiliary: bx + X
Tertiary: cx + Y
Inferior: dx + Z

...Where d < c < b < a and Z < Y < X < W, and a/b/c/d > 0."

With this model, the more preferred function will level up faster (which is dependent on the gradient), and it will also have a higher initial value (denoted by the constant).

The dominant function is the most trusted function. So yes, it must take the lead. All other functions are like servants to the dominant function; they serve him (this is what Myers Briggs said in Gifts Differing). The problem arises when the King is incompetent; his servants will have problems fulfilling their roles as assistants.

No, functions never stop developing. That was not the problem. I simply wish to consciously improve my functions. It is akin to memory and multiple intelligences; we can engage in certain activities to improve them, and we should, otherwise they will go to waste.
 
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