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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So this was a topic I wanted to properly cover for awhile. Do you believe life was better or worse for INFPs in older times and in what areas. How would the ones who had lived probably under it been like(Both genders)? Would you say most would have been 6s?

-There was no need to be hired by a boss or 'start a business', and most people just worked the land they lived on in the ways they knew how to do so in order to survive. Everybody often stayed at home and nobody went away from each other, some homes even only had a single room but every morning all people would be outside setting up things or farming, whatever. I'm not saying nobody could be better for them but in general, if you ever got the opportunity to have an INFJ or ENFJ 'good king' archetype in-charge in your lifetime you would be lucky if an INFP.

-Many people we know of that got typed as INFP worked the following jobs under Distributism: Writers, Painters, Craftspeople, Herbalists, Artisans, Fishermen and Farming(Uses mostly inferior Te). At the same time bad thing was that most people got tied to the family/tradition, as determined by the church and your parents had power over you according to decree until they died then gave inheritance to you. They could decide who you could be friends with, and also who you could/could not marry plus it was all enforced by your 'government' stepping in if you tried to defy them. Everything was about 'follow the herd, believe what your community believes'.

-So alot of society also exhibited more 'feeler-like' qualities and cared more about looks, rich guys wore make-up enough to just keep the face clear for example and wigs sometimes. A king or ruler of the land could order their subjects to make a decision completely out of how their Fi or Fe told them half the time, even if people saw it as 'completely not logical' they had to obey basically. So decisions out of pure emotion got made more, there were good decisions as well as bad decisions if they were in the moment felt angry/upset. Punishments against criminals were also strongly based on feelings of the victims and other people in their village, when a criminal was being punished/executed live parents would take their children or priests would take orphans to go watch it in order to 'teach them'. Rotten fruit/vegetables thrown at you by everybody if you were a thief in a stock or so on.

-Since feeler people might have had more power over society but mostly the ones that were 6s if they were. Somebody mentioned awhile ago that SFs or 'feelers' are more likely to agree and be open with hitting children or pupils if they behave 'badly'. If somebody 'behaved badly' as a child, chances are they would take a heavy beating, with that repeated everytime they 'misbehaved' until they stopped?

-I know/heard of somebody from a Catholic family that still followed this when he was a child, though his in his 40s that whenever he misbehaved his dad strung him from a tree in the backyard and flogged him with a leather belt while his shirt hung during the 1960s/1970s. It was a strategy they used to try and tame him, curbing him of being too rough/aggressive/disobedient. But like said there were both pros/cons? "If somebody is hostile and unwilling to cooperate then use force" was also a thing alot of the time. Basically read what Thomas Hobbes says, basically that the 'savageness of humans must be tamed with force'.

Other stuff: I asked somebody this year skilled in sociology to be told that one side of the family I'm from is in a social bubble where they still follow some attitudes from 'old times' inside their mentality. Basically people would not be allowed to 'get too close' to me without getting past their and their partner's 'If the person is good or bad' check which sucks, they are really suspicious of any outsiders and observe everybody closely etc, as well as holding 'very old beliefs' which stick on still. There is actually another INFP on this forum who is in a similar situation for your info.

If you have to ask then yes I've been treated for extremely bad flu as a kid once with needles that got put in 'anti-bacteria stuff' firstly, before being pricked through my fingers to have some of my 'bad blood' drained out into a bowl. Even then it was rare because blood tests can be used. In truth maybe some of it holds a little merit, like maybe some of the blood that germs are holding onto gets removed? I still received normal medicine for this detail but they had their own beliefs.

So I have a kind of connection to the mentality of people in that time? I've gotten along well as a result with people I've met from strict traditional Muslim families say on my campus I've met at first impression? At one time we were both talking in a class discussion about structures or time, and we both understood each other though they had it tougher than me since they had 0 autonomy allowed practically. Except I criticized the 'old' family structure/ways somewhat and they disagreed, it was not an argument but just a discussion.
 

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Okay this was one of the most fascinating posts ever! So much so that I thought for a while about how I would respond, forgot, and then this morning had to go digging for this. I have often wondered how my INFP husband would act in different time periods. I showed this to him because he is a historian and loves the middle ages. I have hardly any interesting insights except that I have thought that life during that time would work maybe like it does now. Lets say he's a farmer-- he'd do well and keep being an awesome loving husband-- or craftsman like a cobbler or a blacksmith, etc., all good. I always think the military would be the tough thing, whether in WW1 or WW2 (I wonder about depression-era America) or now. And military history is what my husband studies, but I wonder about INFPs in the military now--- and maybe there are some of you out there to enrich my understanding.
About the "blood letting" I had no idea that there were pockets of people who still did that. No, there's no merit to it. During most illnesses your blood remains sterile, unless it's infected called sepsis when you sometimes see organ failure if we can't cure it with antibiotics. Blood letting would only make anyone weaker. It is amazing how old associations have a really hard time dying. In Eastern Europe (and some other places) illness has to do with hot and cold. A Russian lady I was listening to once (lecture on cultures and health) said that she had been in the USA for 15 years and still when her son got a sore throat her first thought was "It was because he had that cold popsicle yesterday." And then she corrected herself, but associations like that can stay in cultures for hundreds of years-- this is something I study. I like to study how pagan beliefs persisted into Christian times. A idea I've been working on recently is how the belief that women were magic users (widely held belief in Germanic paganism) stayed true in people's minds while meanwhile there were religious movements (Christianity) and this eventually created the witch trials of the 1300-1600s.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
A lot of new ideas frightened and angered people during that time. So... probably not a good era for INFPs.
Writers/poets were also in demand though I know not all would be so. Do you believe most INFPs during that time would be 6s like many other types in society? In 'job' terms there were many professions out there that could be worked with people who have tertiary or inferior Te.

The values of society, especially that of knights were all very centered around 'loyalty/fealty' as the purpose of your life and very important quality?
 

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Writers/poets were also in demand though I know not all would be so. Do you believe most INFPs during that time would be 6s like many other types in society? In 'job' terms there were many professions out there that could be worked with people who have tertiary or inferior Te.

The values of society, especially that of knights were all very centered around 'loyalty/fealty' as the purpose of your life and very important quality?
Life was also a lot shorter and much more brutal, I'll stick with modern rights, security and standard of living.
 

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Writers/poets were also in demand though I know not all would be so. Do you believe most INFPs during that time would be 6s like many other types in society? In 'job' terms there were many professions out there that could be worked with people who have tertiary or inferior Te.

The values of society, especially that of knights were all very centered around 'loyalty/fealty' as the purpose of your life and very important quality?
Yeah when I was making the comment I was imagining religion primarily. This was the time where minor differences in belief systems got you burned at the stake or broken on the wheel. This is a western-centric observation; however, I know there were wars of Buddhism vs Hinduism at the time in the east.

I'm less knowledgeable about enneagram types. Checking https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-6/ ... Suspicion was a big thing back then, safety was more important. I could see that. As for knights... depends. I'm sure some follow those loyalty/fealty values, but some would also just relish their selfdom gold.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Yeah when I was making the comment I was imagining religion primarily. This was the time where minor differences in belief systems got you burned at the stake or broken on the wheel. This is a western-centric observation; however, I know there were wars of Buddhism vs Hinduism at the time in the east.

I'm less knowledgeable about enneagram types. Checking https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-6/ ... Suspicion was a big thing back then, safety was more important. I could see that. As for knights... depends. I'm sure some follow those loyalty/fealty values, but some would also just relish their selfdom gold.
For 'knights' they were expected to also go around doing good deeds to raise their prestige/fame, and to be the ones who followed the chivalric values of 'protect the weak'? So they had to act 'noble' and try to exhibit altruism in their mannerisms/behavior to society or the people around them.

If you've ever lived among people with those older mindsets btw you would know everybody is constantly observing each other, and are even more observant of 'strangers'. If something goes wrong they will tend to be more likely to blame you, I wonder how much that still happens today.

Life was also a lot shorter and much more brutal, I'll stick with modern rights, security and standard of living.
I was just saying how you thought it was like for people that would have been INFPs in general, you know how people were encouraged to 'follow the group' rather than formulate their 'own opinion' on things? Not doing so well could put you in trouble if caught depending. So would most have been 6s then you think?

Then again 'unemployment' wouldn't be an issue, and I am mentioning because its often talked about by many INFPs that we have issues supporting ourselves due to the society we live in's demands. When in the past we could use our 'inferior Te' combined with things such as our 'tools of trade'(mini means of producing) to do so, or just be born into a farming/fishing family & live as a peasant which was very common.

It was not equal and they had classes, but there was no element of competition of trying to 'rise to the top' since everybody got everything set for them. Instead of 'rise to the top' it was 'obedience, loyalty and fealty' whether you see that as good/bad for yourself and for other INFPs in general.

It was also 80 holidays a year rather than 8. If you were a 'peasant' you worked 150 days per year on land merely.
 

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Ah this made me have a thought, slightly of of the Middle Age era though. I was thinking of sleepy hollow when Johnny Depp was an investigator, and he didn't quite fit exactly into that position. In fact he was out of the ordinary for that job, but did it in the way he knew how. I thought it was interesting, he wasnt traditionally good at his work, but got results, at least he sought results he would be satisfied with.

If I was in the middle ages, pre-mbti, I'd probably just be a hermit foraging and exploring my own little forest far from the world. I remember in school we read about some writer who spent a year off in the woods....I thought that would be a wonderful time, but no one else really felt the same. I love people, to some degree, but I'm usually quite happy being by myself. The Middle Ages, the perfect time for a crisis I suppose.
 

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2 years ago we moved to a very closed small community. It almost feels like an island. I'm in the health professions if you didn't guess. I see doctors get fired all the time because they offended the secretary. The people who are considered local have so much more power than any new educated person coming out. Every year they loose 50% of their new teachers. Everything is geared to keep the locals in the game. This was super scary at first. Now, I'm an in-sider (took my 2nd job for this to happen). I got accepted at my current job and embraced by the community. My INFP husband has been accepted at his current job, (took his 2nd job out here too).
Anyway, the dynamics at play are fascinating.
When looking at the Middle Ages or other times I like to look at near-er to home times as well for perspective on how human beings act in different situations. Nazi and then Soviet Germany. The depression era is the one that scares me the most for my husband. No jobs and lots of suicides-- I just get so upset to think of him getting through that. He would be scared for me (and our family) in Nazi Germany. I don't conform with what I find morally wrong-- just can't-- I'd get my head chopped off pretty quick and probably my family off to Gulogs (so sorry! But-I-can't!!!) .

The violence of the Middle Ages Europe was horrible, maybe not as bad as Tutor-Stuart-era/Renaissance era. Public shaming, public executions. Middle Ages a bit nicer than 1400-1600 with witch trials, torture-devices, The Inquisition, Vlad the Impaler and Machiavelli kind of stuff. Yeah, so you'd have to put your head down, right?
Roman rule was pretty rough too. Very ESTJ, right? Yikes....
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
2 years ago we moved to a very closed small community. It almost feels like an island. I'm in the health professions if you didn't guess. I see doctors get fired all the time because they offended the secretary. The people who are considered local have so much more power than any new educated person coming out. Every year they loose 50% of their new teachers. Everything is geared to keep the locals in the game. This was super scary at first. Now, I'm an in-sider (took my 2nd job for this to happen). I got accepted at my current job and embraced by the community. My INFP husband has been accepted at his current job, (took his 2nd job out here too).
Anyway, the dynamics at play are fascinating.

The violence of the Middle Ages Europe was horrible, maybe not as bad as Tutor-Stuart-era/Renaissance era. Public shaming, public executions. Middle Ages a bit nicer than 1400-1600 with witch trials, torture-devices, The Inquisition, Vlad the Impaler and Machiavelli kind of stuff. Yeah, so you'd have to put your head down, right?
Roman rule was pretty rough too. Very ESTJ, right? Yikes....
I read somewhere from a research thing @bigstupidgrin that in the old systems, especially during those times that somehow it was actually beneficial for people to be introverted or IxFx. If it was true we had more feelers or IxFxs, also at the same time, system was about loyalty above all else and taught people to 'seek validation from their community/king/lord/priest'? Depending on how close I am to people in those times I know I get angered more easily if I'm deliberately shown disrespect/dishonor for example.

How would 'Medieval' society and its rulers view INFPs then aside from wanting to make sure we become or are 6s and loyalty/strong sense of values can be utilised to serve somebody?

It was all very extremely loyalty + value orientated, if you were a knight then you were expected to follow the code of chivalry that says your duty is to 'protect the weak' + uphold Catholic values.

It was also not seen as unusual for guys to be IxFx either to a point where people were never actually surprised to hear about/see it, and you actually had stories like in Arthurian legends of knights who were 'sensitive/emotional' that pulled out swords when their pride/dignity was threatened or tried to 'prove themselves'? Many wars or battles were fought in the name of 'emotion'(Fi) like the war of roses or 'hundred years war' as well as how they did punishments. At the same time the downside is that like said, your parent can decide how your life runs + with backing of the local ruling government in any manners and doctrine also said that it had to be that way.

And yes in those cultures the local governments had alot more power and people lived more far from each other in small communities where everybody knew that anyone was doing. Those on my side of the family I live with are frightened of going out at night, and believe you must always be accompanied if so.

Did the lynchings or imagery of angry villagers banging on a who they believe to be bad/dangerous person's door with pitchforks and torches also relate to 6 lol?
 

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^ I'll respond more to your post but on the mob killing stuff; with sanitation/a lack of knowledge on disease a lot of villagers accidentally tripped balls which would either frighten others, or make you look like a prophet. I've seen a theory that contaminated rye flour helped set off the Salem witch trials*.

*granted, that's not during the 'Middle ages' but they would have the same issues.
 

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I guess it was like any other person in the Middle Ages.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I guess it was like any other person in the Middle Ages.
But as in how would it be viewed as? Plus would you say the people in power were more feeler-ish or not because of those decisions they made that were driven by emotions/feelings?

We do know that royalty or nobles liked to from time to time use their abundant wealth to mass hire people to be writers/artists/designers/decoraters too.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
@Songs of Yuletide, @PaladinRoland Another thing, the core values of Feudalism is loyalty in return for security. Your 'master', 'lord' or King is supposed to be your provider/protector who provides you with employment, a place to live and protection from dangerous people inside or outside of society.

I was raised with some old feudal values without my relatives being aware of it so and find myself fiercely loyal to whichever group in society promises to provide the most security? Or is it to do with 6? I can imagine myself being willing to carry out almost every command they might give if they were in power and providing the security.

There were many people when they were made to serve in the king's army, or carried out whatever orders who were acting fanatically loyal while feeling indebted to them for the security they provided, which enabled them to carry out hardcore acts during warfare. The safety of your king or lord being threatened would also mean that your security is at stake.

I had a go at looking into herbalism myself and found that I'm shockingly good at it.
 

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I'm in the Tudor era with this thought.
So what was Sir Thomas Moore? I would think INFP-- beautiful writing. He coined "grasping at straws" among other contributions to our language.
He just couldn't conform to King Henry the VIII. Could NOT. Lost his head over it.

In the Salem witch trials (and this is an area I read a lot about, I think I've said), then there was a man they were publicly torturing. They were putting huge stones on him. They said, "Now are you ready to confess?"
He said, "More weight." Like basically he couldn't and wouldn't betray what he felt was the truth.

The thing we have to remember about this time is how devout many people were. Many were more concerned with what awaited them in the next life than they were about this life. And then obviously there were the Abigail Adams's who went around not being honest and (kind of, maybe) using the devotion and honesty of all the others?
I relate to these men. I was taught to admire this kind of honesty--- and also it feels like I would BE this honest. Ask me to betray my neighbors--- no! I don't know....my INFP husband would do what was best for the family. I don't know if I could conform.
I don't know INFPs.... I think about this stuff ALL the time for some reason.
 

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@Songs of Yuletide, @PaladinRoland Another thing, the core values of Feudalism is loyalty in return for security. Your 'master', 'lord' or King is supposed to be your provider/protector who provides you with employment, a place to live and protection from dangerous people inside or outside of society.

I was raised with some old feudal values without my relatives being aware of it so and find myself fiercely loyal to whichever group in society promises to provide the most security? Or is it to do with 6? I can imagine myself being willing to carry out almost every command they might give if they were in power and providing the security.

There were many people when they were made to serve in the king's army, or carried out whatever orders who were acting fanatically loyal while feeling indebted to them for the security they provided, which enabled them to carry out hardcore acts during warfare. The safety of your king or lord being threatened would also mean that your security is at stake.

I had a go at looking into herbalism myself and found that I'm shockingly good at it.
Tell me more about herbalism. What books are the best and what kind of th8ngs do you try to treat?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Tell me more about herbalism. What books are the best and what kind of th8ngs do you try to treat?
I might sound silly to the people here besides the user @OrangeAppled if they might be interested in contributing, but every herb corresponds to something, might have to send you the links. There are 2 books I’ve gone through and some more to get, one of them I’m halfway but I recorded the key information in a logbook.
 

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I might sound silly to the people here besides the user with the name Orange at the start but every herb corresponds to something, might have to send you the links. There are 2 books I’ve gone through and some more to get, one of them I’m halfway but I recorded the key information in a logbook.
PM away, Defender. =).
 

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I might sound silly to the people here besides the user @OrangeAppled if they might be interested in contributing, but every herb corresponds to something, might have to send you the links. There are 2 books I’ve gone through and some more to get, one of them I’m halfway but I recorded the key information in a logbook.
Did I say something about this before?
Well yes I am a BELIEVER! :D

I can’t say I’ve read any books though...I think this warrants a thread of its own. I’m quite interested in learning!
Dandelion root and oil of oregano are a few I believe in. Have had good results with those!

As to the OP....I’ve heard that the Middle Ages weren’t as horrific as often described. Still, I don’t know if it would be my #1 choice of time period to live in. Renaissance may suit me better or the romantic period in reaction to the excessive emphasis on rationality in the enlightenment.

Certainly modern medicine has benefitted us in many ways (particularly with infant survival and life span aka prolonging life of the elderly), but there are many social and lifestyle drawbacks too.

The biggest thing I see now is the excessive adulation of “science”. Blame the enlightenment? Intuition, feeling and psychospiritual stuff has been invalidated because “science!”.
 
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