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Discussion Starter #1
I have read in all the Socionics descriptions of the 4 quadras that Alphas and Deltas don’t strive for power and that “power” is the domain of the Betas and Gammas, but a good number of the LII’s I’ve known and who’ve been open and candid with me have disclosed their deep desire for power and have told me stories about their own “sneaky” things they have done to gain power, and even the ones who haven’t openly told me their stories, I’ve been “lucky enough “ to watch them in action, and they can be quite ruthlessssss.... Im more curious than anything , would any LII’s here care to explain, is power something you strive for? Or do the Alpha quadra description of a peaceful bunch of folks fit you neatly?
 

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I demand the return of the crazy face! :crazy:
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I've read the same thing, and I think it'd be odd for an Se PoLR type to strive for power for its own sake. Or, frankly, to even know how to acquire power.

If you're sure they're LIIs (as opposed to, say, LSIs or ILIs), it's possible that they were raised by Decisive types who did value power, and that influenced them to value the same.

Also, it's possible they don't want power for its own sake-- do you think maybe they only want power instrumentally, insofar as it helps them get something else?
 

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Chances are those people fit other types better if they are "hungry for power".

counterintuitive makes solid reasoning as to why they could be LII's, so I'll make the other more simple argument.

The whole system of socionics is looking at behaviour and then working backwards to describe that person's values and strengths. Basically making a model of how a person thinks. You say these people are power hungry; they want to gain power, they desire it, acting strongly and openly with ruthlessness. How does that fit one of the meekest, most academic, least competitive profiles in socionics? That behaviour describes values and strengths of other types.

One of the defining traits of LII and EII is 4th function Se, of vulnerable Se, minimizing and avoiding dealing with challenging, active, competitive situations. Every description says they avoid dealing with power dynamics, that they have little ability to understand it, so what makes you think they are LII? Everything you have said is direct evidence of why they don't fit in the LII model, and you even say no description you have read would have them as LII.... It doesn't seem to be any existing socionics model, something isn't right.

It's like saying that SLI's and ILI's are very expressive and love chasing emotional group highs, or LIE's and EIE's have a deep seated desire for relaxing and doing nothing being able to just go with the flow....the premise is wrong.

People put work into these models, and then more people put effort into understanding them, to discuss them with others and use them to help each other lead better, more fulfilling lives. I think misunderstanding the models to this degree can equally cause damage and prevent improvement...hopefully you can understand I don't mean offence by the frankness of this response.
 

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@PluckyDucky I'm in agreement, generally. My first thought was that they're probably not LIIs. I decided to grant that they could be, and answer accordingly, but based on the description given, it's unlikely they're LIIs (or EIIs) for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Power-hungering like that usually indicates at least valued Se, if not also strong Se. Types with weak, valued Se (mobilizing or suggestive) might still be power hungry in aspiration while not knowing how to acquire power in reality. But LIIs (and EIIs) don't fit that description either.
 

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Heretic
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"Power" such a misunderstood word in this context.
In order to have an effect on the environment, one needs to use "force" on it.
At least if you want to see an effect with your senses.
Hence Se valuing types will be in tune with getting stuff
that increase the obvious influence they have on the sensory realm.

Now Si types doesn't care about this, they rather that the sensory stay more or less status quo.
However they care about being able to change Ne, and will gather their "power" for this purpose.
I know enough LIIs to have seen their lust for their own kind of power.
They are more or less useless in terms of Se, but that doesn't make them totally powerless in all senses of the word.
Just in the specific version about wanting to push their sensory environment around for their own benefit.
Also you see a very different takes on this from what role their Se has even if it is valued.
As an ESI my Se is a tool to be used to get to shit I value, it isn't its own end like with say SEE and SLI.
 

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I'm gonna admit idk what the f------------------ LII is. But as an INTJ, the only "power" I crave is personal power...from within. I have no interest in having power over others. Although I do have an interest in showing wrong people that they're wrong....but no one (rarely even me) listens to "you're wrong". I'm much more interested in self-development than any other form of "power". I would crave the kind of power that makes me invincible to the rest of the world, not dominant over it.
 

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I'm gonna admit idk what the f------------------ LII is. But as an INTJ, the only "power" I crave is personal power...from within. I have no interest in having power over others. Although I do have an interest in showing wrong people that they're wrong....but no one (rarely even me) listens to "you're wrong". I'm much more interested in self-development than any other form of "power". I would crave the kind of power that makes me invincible to the rest of the world, not dominant over it.
LII is sort of an INTP with dominant Ti and aux Ne.
Though an INTP/LII would probably nitpick the MBTI and Socionics definition of Ti and Ne
being too different for them being the same.
Because to them the whole thing is logically isolated from Se sensory reality.
Which is one of the reasons that they like building frameworks in a vacuum.
Having a very strained relationship with empirical reality.

The "power" of Se is the same power you experience as you experience the sensory feedback
of impaling food on your plate with a fork. There is a change there as you push against the world.
Se likes to be able to visibly do this, as a Se inferior, you will have an ambivalence around this.
You more like to watch others effecting the change rather than doing it yourself.
Not that you can't find great pleasure of interacting with the world in this way though.
You just suck at it compared to a Se dominant.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok so basically yes I was off about the type, the type I was referring to were SLI’s- the problem is that I initially typed them as SLI’s until they (yes separately) denied being SLI’s and instead when I suggested LII, they completely agreed ( which I believe it is because this type doesn’t want to be “figured out”). In fact all the SLI’s I’ve known deeply dislike being figured out from the inside out. But the type I was referring to was in fact SLI! To which my initial question would still apply - since they are a part of the delta quadra, which according to Socionics does not strive for power.
 
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