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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Do you think we can excel at both?

I think it's common for ENFJs to have real high EQ but what about IQ?

So is
IQ + EQ = constant
OR IQ + EQ =/= constant

?
 

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IQ is crap. Just another standardized test to create a divide in society ... to make some people feel better than others ... to divert resources and attention away from one groups of of kids to another .... to make it easier to separate the cogs from the artiste ...

That said ... my IQ has tested anywhere from 125-146 depending on my mood, the test and the reasons why I took the test. But that's still only one aspect of intelligence and someone else's method of testing it. It's far from accurate ... and doesn't even test for intelligence ... just an ability to see patterns.

But I still find the whole idea behind using something like a test that only tests for 1 kind of intelligence to try to determine who's 'better' absolutely despicable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
IQ is crap. Just another standardized test to create a divide in society ... to make some people feel better than others ... to divert resources and attention away from one groups of of kids to another .... to make it easier to separate the cogs from the artiste ...
I agree with that. I use IQ because there is nothing better at the moment to give even illusion of logical thinking and pattern spotting ability measurement.

I'm not interested in personal judgment about the whole idea of IQ.
I'm interested whether something like ability to excel at logical and emotional judgment CAN happen at the same time. If not, how this two relate to each other.

You only spoke about high IQ but there is still nothing about EQ. Do me a favor and forget for a second how IQ tests crappy are and put this standard (shitty as it is) way to give feedback on logical abilities on the situation judging spectrum with emotional awareness.
 

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IQ is crap. Just another standardized test to create a divide in society ... to make some people feel better than others ... to divert resources and attention away from one groups of of kids to another .... to make it easier to separate the cogs from the artiste ...

That said ... my IQ has tested anywhere from 125-146 depending on my mood, the test and the reasons why I took the test. But that's still only one aspect of intelligence and someone else's method of testing it. It's far from accurate ... and doesn't even test for intelligence ... just an ability to see patterns.

But I still find the whole idea behind using something like a test that only tests for 1 kind of intelligence to try to determine who's 'better' absolutely despicable.

Sounds like you really took a crappy IQ test. A real one is individually administered, usually a wechsler scale test (WISC or WAIS depending on your age) and it involves measures of different kinds of intelligence. It's not a simple paper and pen test. I actually administered IQ tests and made assessment reports on it before, and it's a more complicated task than that. IQ scales involve memory, vocabulary, logical reasoning, spatial reasoning, etc. and usually requires manipulatives (blocks, picture arrangement, construction). Other kinds like Stanford Binet also use manipulatives.

IQ tests are not to be used to segregate people into different 'classes' of intelligence. Psychologists usually use them in order to look for strengths and weaknesses in different kinds of intelligence in order to know which kind of treatment may be helpful for the client. It's also good for when we try to diagnose clients, because sometimes people go to have their children assessed for stuff like learning disorders and the IQ scores show something totally different, or show us what specific area they're having difficulty with.

But people who use IQ for purposes like discriminating people are not using it properly. IQ is just IQ: it's just a person's speed in processing and absorbing information.
 

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Having high IQ doesn't mean you have low EQ or vice versa. You can have both low IQ and low EQ, and you can have high IQ and high EQ. To think we have let's say 250 points we have to split between IQ and EQ score like an RPG character is ridicolous.
 

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I'm not interested in personal judgment about the whole idea of IQ.
I'm interested whether something like ability to excel at logical and emotional judgment CAN happen at the same time. If not, how this two relate to each other.

You only spoke about high IQ but there is still nothing about EQ. Do me a favor and forget for a second how IQ tests crappy are and put this standard (shitty as it is) way to give feedback on logical abilities on the situation judging spectrum with emotional awareness.
Hmm...I think IQ and EQ somewhat go hand in hand. Some of the things that comprise EQ, like waiting for your turn maybe or being considerate and stuff, are things that we learn from experience. Maybe part of the learning of social rules need a certain level of ability to process information. But I can't really say for sure, past clients who are severely mentally retarded also come from abusive environments so it's hard to say whether their behavior is because of the environment or because they can't learn social cues that easily.
 
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But people who use IQ for purposes like discriminating people are not using it properly. IQ is just IQ: it's just a person's speed in processing and absorbing information.
I agree with your post in its entirety :) And I really agree with this part - however, I've noticed that IQ tests are put in place with regards to some college entrance exams [especially in Pakistan], as well as in certain jobs. And I found that to be counter-productive to actual merit. I'm a firm believer in multiple intelligences - and I believe that IQ is purely testing only certain aspects of one's intelligence and cannot be used to gauge a person's actual intelligence.

The test actually only measures what it sets out to measure - that is the person's ability to answer those particular questions in a test at that particular point in time. Emotional states, psychological differences, cultural differences are deemed constant when measuring IQ and thereby empirical analysis of those particular answers are specific to those tests.

I would like to see how such numbers can be used to determine how intelligent a person is - To me using a number to define a person's mental capabilities [no matter how well the test is developed] seems almost arbitrary and influenced.

My core disagreement is that to determine a person's future or try to place them in situations which would be deemed beneficial for them may actually back-fire.

It could also create groups and lead to a "us versus them", or "I'm better than the other person because I have a higher IQ" mentality - Could lead to arrogance or woe -

My overall opinion is that IQ testing causes more harm than good. But I don't completely reject it unfortunately, because I don't think a better option exists.

What we can do is rely on multiple intelligences more, maybe?
 

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Okay, people... let's not be a-holes because somebody's curious about something. Treat others the way you want to be treated. When you're curious about something, you want people to really sort through the idea with you. In any case, I, just like most of the people on this thread, have gotten off topic. Back to the OT...

IQ and EQ have no correlation in my opinion. Interesting thought, though! I have personally found that people who are more emotionally even-keel tend to excel in studies simply because they don't typically get side-tracked by emotions.
 

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Okay, people... let's not be a-holes because somebody's curious about something. Treat others the way you want to be treated. When you're curious about something, you want people to really sort through the idea with you. In any case, I, just like most of the people on this thread, have gotten off topic. Back to the OT...
Expressing an opinion about a testing system is being an a-hole?

IQ and EQ have no correlation in my opinion. Interesting thought, though! I have personally found that people who are more emotionally even-keel tend to excel in studies simply because they don't typically get side-tracked by emotions.
This is for the OP imo. Purely hypothetical thoughts follow:

IQ and EQ have a very strong correlation in my opinion. And this can even be related to the realm of cognitive functions and MBTI.

People are a combination of thinking and feeling functions. Emotional Intelligence can be intuitively related to Fe and Fi functions and IQ can be related to Te and Ti functions ...

I would venture to guess that the more developed each thinking and feeling function of each person is would determine their emotional or logical intelligence.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ti and Te users scored better on IQ tests while Fe and Fi users score better on EQ tests earlier on - and then find the scores levelling off as they age and developed their Tert and Inferior functions more.

Just my take.
 

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@Jawz Thank you for clearing that up. I suppose what I was really trying to say is that you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. You can make a point without being negative. Trust me, I need to practice what I preach. What really threw me off was your coming right out with, "IQ is crap." It might do you well to provide insight leading up to that conclusion as it is less likely to turn people off to the actual point you're trying to make. Make sense? You're an individual, do things however you want. I just thought it might be helpful to point out how you're coming across to others that you're trying to help.
 

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High logical intelligence is linked to Ti, but people who are high in Ti aren't necessarily going to score highly in IQ tests and vice versa. At the end of th day, if I wanted to learn the way IQ test questions work and do them until I've mastered them I could score very highly, I just don't because I think the IQ is an entirely redundant method of finding out how intelligent people are - especially online ones (I've scored between 111-149 for those things ^^). There are so many different ways for someone to display intelligence, you can't just catagorize it into a few abilities.

I consider online emotional intelligence tests to be just as much hooey - they're always aimed at how we feel towards the general public and I think you'll find the vast majority of a Ti doms emotional intelligence is expressed to those closest to them, hence we get sub-autistic scores on online empathy quizzes :/

You won't ever be able to use Ti in the same way as someone who is naturally dominant because it is your weakest function; the way an EXFJ uses Ti is completely different to the way an IXTP would - it's not that it isn't present, it's just your brain can only call on it when it's in a situation in which it's completely comfortable. I have a theory that a persons weakest functions aren't readily displayed because the person (subconsciously?) recognises it as a weakness and hence 'hides' it from people who they don't trust enough to not exploit it.

One thing I've noticed from lurking here is that ENFJs do have a side which can view things objectively, it just gets heavily supressed in favour of choices which best suit the needs of others. This side only ever comes out to play around the people who they have let into their 'inner personalities'; the same thing happens with ISTPs and Fe - we do have a gooey, caring, loving side, it's just hidden very deeply under that stoic exterior.

You can work to build up Ti but it Fe will always overrule it because it's the function you primarily use to view the world: Ti doesn't develop to outgrow your Fe, it develops so it can support it. Because of this, it's never going to work in the same way as it would for me.

So I say Ti + Fe =/= constant.
 
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Ok .. so that's what ticked you off.



Yup. You do. I suppose we both do ;)

Lol, I wouldn't call it "ticked off." Real talk here... I'm a peace-maker, and I think I instantly try to neutralize a situation before it escalates and gets blown out of proportion. I honestly did, and still do, see the point you were making. I just didn't want the original poster to be offended/feel attacked and react on pure emotion. Once one person gets emotional, a lot of people feel the need to jump in and defend (like myself) and it turns into one large emotional mess. I was trying to stop it before it became "a thing." Now, did I effectively neutralize the situation? Looking back, not really, but I think you and I have both developed the situation into a neutral one through choosing to have a civilized discussion. I commend you for keeping your cool about the a-hole thing. I definitely need to work on my approach. I should not have said that, and I sincerely apologize <3 I should have checked myself.

Coming from the perspective of the OP, I know what it's like to put my thought process to the test by asking others their opinion. I also know what it's like for people to be rude and treat me as if I were an idiot for being excited about a possibility/my thought process. My intent was to let the original poster know that I did pick up on how it came off, and that he/she wasn't the only one who noticed (on the chance that he/she did indeed feel offended.) And it was also my intent to let you know that I realize your true intent was to provide solid insight, but that it came out a little sideways. I should have handled it better. Thank you for being gracious.
 

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You can work to build up Ti but it Fe will always overrule it because it's the function you primarily use to view the world: Ti doesn't develop to outgrow your Fe, it develops so it can support it. Because of this, it's never going to work in the same way as it would for me.

So I say Ti + Fe =/= constant.
Other than that, that vicious looking equation [just looking at equations gives me a headache XD], I agree with the assessment that an ENFJ will most likely end up reverting to Fe in the end. Imo, [and as per the theory of individuation], an ENFJ can have Fe=Ti, but most likely Fe will remain greater than Ti.

I believe that objectivity for an ENFJ is a part of the Fe/Ni relationship more which allows us to have our own logical ways of looking at systems - hence which is why ENFJs are considered "creative" and "trouble-shooters". I've forced myself to come up with my own logical way of answering typically logical dilemmas. EG. When faced with a difficult math problem - I would sometimes just *know* the range of potential answers - and would try to get there using my own methods that weren't taught to me. Sometimes it was a matter of working backwards. I can't describe my logic and if asked to do it again, I can't do it. Infuriated teachers when I'd just put the answer and it would be right. Guess work? Maybe .. but I know my brain did something there to make an educated guess and it was just right cuz I felt it was right.

Also, another interesting place where Ti seems to manifest for me is in music. When I create music, sometimes I do it very "by the numbers, step-by-step" approach ... sometimes I just improvise based on what I'm feeling in the moment. However, to lay out the structure of a composition, one has to follow a very logical step by step approach. Music is linear progression and logical.

So yeah .. in other words Fe/Ni creativity leads to objectivity as well as subjectivity.

It's about the ability to use one's own mind to come conclusions.

Relating back to the OP ... the ability to be creative in the use of Fe/Ni perhaps would suggest that when it came to actual intelligence, ENFJ's might be surprisingly intelligent - both logically as well as emotionally.
 

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I don't think intelligence is completely reliant on cognitive functions. We may be inclined towards certain intelligences, but given the fact that ENFJs have such different learning styles must indicate something environmental. How were your talents cultivated, how were you trained? What role do genetics play in all of this? My brother's an INTJ and he got a 32 on his ACT. I know an ENFP who got a 34 on their ACT.....which indicates that individual probably has a pretty high intelligence quotient.

Either that or he just got lucky. :p
 
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I really don't see a correlation between IQ and EQ.
Gifted people are supposed to be high in both, but not everyone with a high IQ is necessarily gifted, since IQ usually focus on math, lingual, spatial, and logic skills.
I don't think there's much of a correlation between type and IQ, but Intuitive types might have more of an edge on tasks that require finding hidden meanings or patterns than Sensing types since N types are usually "connecting the dots" in their minds.
Extraverts who are "feeling types" might have more of an edge on the interpersonal end of the EQ spectrum, whereas Introverts with a feeling preference might have a better handle on the intrapersonal end of that spectrum. But beyond that, I don't see much of a correlation between type and intelligence in general.

There's likely a genetic factor in intelligence, but for those that don't have the "smart genes", I wouldn't say it's hopeless, it just takes more effort; the same thing goes for EQ, I'm sure.
 
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