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Discussion Starter #21
@Senah Ha, thank you for joining in the discussion. I appreciate your willingness to concede (albeit grudgingly) the debate on cats in favor of them as allowable pets.

Yes, you ENTPs really can't be matched in your ability to jump from one shiny thing to the next. It's one of your most frustrating yet also endearing qualities. :p Yeah, 4 days of interaction along with a distance of 1,300 miles really isn't the best recipe for romance, that's true, especially when considering the temperament in question. Leave it to me to get myself involved in something so improbable, lol. At this point he and I might cross paths sometime this month, if a travel plan of mine works out, so there is that. If that falls through though I'm probably just going to have to wait for next summer and see what all happens then/if there's any indication of interest at that point.

Thanks again for responding!
 

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@FueledByEvil I enjoyed your response! When it comes to someone making the first move, I think that for some time subconsciously I've been of the opinion that the kind of person I really need as a partner is the kind of person who would be willing to make the first move. I used to pretty staunchly believe that I would do best with someone who is relatively self-confident and outgoing, and who would have no problem approaching me and initiating romantic interactions. I think I had this opinion because throughout middle school and half of high school I had pretty intense social anxiety, and at that time I would never have had enough courage to even introduce myself to someone I liked, let alone carry a conversation with them of my own initiation. While I wouldn't say my anxieties are completely gone, I will say that my confidence has risen exponentially and now people almost never believe me when I tell them I'm an introvert, and I often initiate interactions in social settings, so really the mindset of having to have someone else make all of the advances romantically isn't as important to me as it once was. Sorry for how long that was. :p
X) Yeah cause my post are tiny....
I am enjoying the exchange, please continue.

I am also inclined to agree with your perception of MBTI functions for the most part. When I use the expression 'developing' I really use it to refer to attaining a better understanding and knowledge of said function, which I personally believe can yield similar results to that of actually 'expanding' said function, despite the fact that it is set in the function stack and won't move up or change in position with the other functions even with development, if that makes any sense.....? Not that I'm an expert in MBTI whatsoever, but those are just my thoughts. :)
Much like yourself it seems to make sense to me yet I am not even a cursory expert.
Just a humble enthusiast. (okay I am not humble)


Can I ask how you met your wife/what led up to you both getting together? Stories involving people coming together always fascinate me.
Sure, that's no problem.

My wife and I met online. Back in 1998...maybe it was 99. Either way it was a
while ago. Its interesting how things have changed in as far as online relationships
go since then. When my wife and I met online it was still taboo. Was a little harder
to actually do items online as there was not as many programs to aid in that.
Basically you had ICQ/MIRC and some online chats. Video chat was still a fledgling
due to dial up still being the main connection method.

I was 19 years old and straightening out my life after years of being a dodgy, drug addled
ENTP. She was 29 and in an estranged marriage with two little sons. A more unlikely
combo of people to fall for each other is rare. We both needed major life changes
and we found that in each other. This is not to say that we were in the midst of
our issues. She had begun her journey a few years prior to meeting me and
I had been a few years into my journey of changing. So we had a stable start in as far
as who we were/wanted to be. I suppose what I am saying is we didn't start the relationship
on the premise that we would fix each other. We started on a premise of; this is the new us
and this person is more in line with the way I would like to live.

Unofficially? I do think my wife "saved" me. It is hard to say because we can’t go
back in time. I like to give her that credit though. I was a very, very tumultuous
free spirit that conformed to no system other than the whims of my addictions,
cocaine or any other drug I could shovel into my blood. Now again, I had quit
those items before I met her yet I do believe that because of her? My strength
was amplified to beat the need to return to drugs. Heck even if she didn't save me then?
She saves me now. I am an addict and always will be. It is a constant struggle yet
one that I embrace and challenge.

Nutshell: We moved in together in 2000 married in 2006. We
are more in love then we both ever thought possible. We have
raised our two sons (they were 5 and 3 when my wife and I met)
they are now all grown up and I even have a granddaughter.
Life is good. I regret almost nothing and I relish every moment.

I know that I can live and succeed without her.
I just would never want to. It actually even pains me to
just wright that line. She makes me a better man in almost
every way I can think of. I lose nothing with her yet I gain almost everything.


Can I also ask if you've found the difference between her as a Sensor and you as an Intuitive difficult whatsoever?
As difficult as it would be to deal with an NTP all the time.
It is relative and it is also something that can be learned.
If you can appreciate what the other offers instead of just
assuming its crap because you don't agree then you can really
become a great team no matter the type.

Or do you find the differences to be complimentary and beneficial?
Unequivocally beneficial.
Certainly complimentary.

During some time in my youth I was part of a pretty hard core Christian cult.
Learned a ton. One item I learned that is as true today as it ever will be is
this here: A life partner needs to be someone you need first and want second.
In a perfect world you find both in one individual. Such is the case with my wife
and I. We complete the whole. What is the "whole"? That is to my mind the
ideal of the societal/cultural individual that has best chance for personal fulfillment
as well as societal responsibilities coupled with a small dose of cultural conformity.
Being that the above mentioned where set up by all MBTI types it is a great
mix, to my mind, to have an SF/NT couple. ( as defined via stereotypes of the types)
Has it caused any major problems with communication with each other or in how you relate to each other?
At the start of the relationship? Heck yeah. It took a while to find footing. But after 20
years now? That is old hat. It also helps that my wife and I were/are open to
try just about anything. We are very accepting people and do not conform to dogma
of almost any description. So that made it fairly seamless. The hardest part was
trying to figure out how we both needed to argue. Seems arbitrary but that
was one of the biggest problems even up until about 5 years ago.
Yet we are even through that now. I mean think about it...
ESFJ and ENTP are great communicators. We talk and talk and talk and talk.
I can count on one hand, truly, how many times we have fought.
Yet we argue almost every day. Arguments to use are a way to figure items out.
Not heated, get mad arguments. Just like debates about choices and what not.


I'm just always fascinated to hear about different couples and how their relationship with one another works, since people are so unique and it's different for each one and I really love that. :)
I agree. Indeed why I am on PerC and why I am loving this exchange.
Much obliged.
 

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@FueledByEvil I apologize for not responding for such a long time! I got busy just after your last response and just got back from a road trip last night. I loved reading your story/stories, thank you for writing that out for me!

So, there is a bit of an update on the ENTP I've been talking about. This is all going to be very, very long, so again, I'm really sorry for the length of everything, I just am hoping to give as many details as I can and get some more input from you if possible. Unfortunately the results of all of what has happened recently were a bit inconclusive for me, so....who knows what you'll think.

First off, the ENTP has been going to college in Tenessee, and just finished his studies a week ago. To sum it up, I wanted to do a road trip to visit my future sister-in-law and her sister, who currently live up in Alabama, about a 20 hour drive away from where I live. Coincidentally, the ENTP's parents live in Dallas, which is literally halfway between me and my destination. The ENTP's parents LOVE hosting people in their home and have in the past invited anyone in my family to feel free to stay with them if we ever end up staying overnight in Dallas.

I went out on a limb and messaged the ENTP via facebook and asked if he thought his parents would be willing to host me and my older sister on our way through town to see our sister-in-law, and he immediately responded that he knew they'd love to host us but he couldn't guarentee they'd be available, so he'd check with them and get back to me. It took him about 4 days, but he finally responded (at 3:40am...ha...) that they'd love to host us both on the way up and the way back, and I thanked him and our conversation ended.

My thoughts about this trip were that if I ended up being able to see him at his parents house (which I couldn't gaurentee because I didn't know when he'd be coming back for Christmas) maybe I could gauge his behavior towards me and if he gave me the cold shoulder/absolutely no encouragement at all, I'd know to just let go of my feelings for him. But if I saw him and he was still encouraging/flirtatious, then I'd take heart and still consider going for something at some point between him and I. Maybe I was a bit too ambitious in hoping to get such a definite answer from the trip, but oh well. :p

So, last weekend, my sister and I drove up to his parents house. Turns out he'd gotten back into town from college just the night before we showed up. He greeted my sister and I pretty with his usual perky/friendly attitude and then went and did his own thing while his mom gave us dinner and talked to us about our trip and stuff (we were in the dining room, he was in the living room, but the rooms open up to each other so I could see him from where I was sitting.)

After we finished eating the ENTP and his dad walked into the dining room and the ENTP's dad said that the ENTP wanted to go and get ice cream for dessert, and they popped off and returned about 15 minutes later with ice cream. While getting ice cream he and I exchanged a few snarky comments between each other, but nothing too major. We then all (his parents, my sister and I) went and sat in the living room and the ENTP decided to show us a random assortment of youtube videos, including some music videos and other random things. In the middle of showing us the videos he turned to me and asked me if I was enjoying my gap year/the secretary work that I'm currently doing and I answered his questions, and he listened pretty intently, then he went back to showing us some more videos.

I asked him something about him graduating and he said 'Well actually, I don't even know if I've graduated yet because I don't know my final grades. Let's see!' and he proceeded to check out his grades for the semester right in front of my sister, myself, and his parents, which struck me as a pretty bold thing to do if he didn't even know what he'd gotten yet. Not important here, but his grades were pretty decent all in all.

Anyway, we all went to bed after sitting around watching videos for about an hour. My sister and I woke up the next morning and started to have breakfast with his mom, and he shuffled into breakfast after we'd been sitting and eating for a while, and he didn't really say too much as I was in the middle of telling a story to his mom, but he sat and ate food and listened/laughed occasionally when I said something amusing. Then he told us goodbye and wished us safe travels and all the usual stuff and we took off.

The trip went well, my sister and I had a great time, and then a couple days later started the drive back. On the way back through we stayed with his family again, and this time we met up with them at a restaurant for dinner. His parents have a Bible study group that was having a Christmas dinner meeting and they kindly invited us to join them. We arrived at the restaurant and everybody was standing outside waiting to be called into the restaurant, and so I ended up standing next to the ENTP we immediately got engaged in talking to each other and we got BACK into the cat debate, which he seemed to really enjoy, and then somehow he started talking about the fact that he's currently trying to convince himself to go back to college to get another degree, since his first degree is in music and doesn't guarentee him any money, but of course he's not too delighted to be going back to school, and so I asked him what he'd study and he said he didn't know, but he's going to take an aptitude test and probably just go with whatever he's good at, and when I asked him what he was good at he said just about everything, and so I asked him if he'd make a good assassin and our conversation eventually ended with me about to hire him to assassinate Putin for me. Not sure if this is just because I'm biased, but once again he'd seemed to really enjoy the conversation. However I know ENTP's are social creatures and are prone to enjoying good banter, so I'm not trying to read too much into that.

We then got called into the restaurant and he said we should sit in the very back corner of the tables they'd put out for the whole group, so he sat in the corner and I sat next to him, and my sister sat across from us, and we 3 chatted casually throughout dinner, and he made sure to include my sister in our conversations, which ranged from our childhoods to what he wanted to do in his life and what I wanted to study in college to where lettuce came from.

When dinner was over we all were standing up and leaving and he asked me what musicals I'd seen, since both he and I have performed in musicals before, and so I started trying to remember all of the ones I've seen, and eventually he just turned and listed these 5 specific musicals, all of which I've grown up watching, and when I said I'd seen all of them, he said 'Well there, then you've seen all of the good ones.' and then we talked about Pixar and Disney before eventually we got into our respective vehicles and went back to his house.

At his house my sister and I settled in the guest room we were staying in and I went downstairs to see that he'd ended up plopping on a couch in his living room and so I went and sat next to him and struck up a conversation. He initially seemed pretty tired while talking, and so I told him I could just leave and let him go to bed, but he didn't really respond to that and started asking me different questions about my life, like my homeschooling experience and stuff like that. We then started the cat debate again, and I told him I just didn't understand his point of view on the matter, and he said he didn't like them because they are evil, too independent for their own good and are also trying to overthrow humanity, and I told him that it sounded like he was just too similar to cats and thusly wanted to put them down because they made him uncomfortable since they were good at what they do (he's told me he wants to be dictator of the world before) and he finally agreed that I was probably right about that.

I then told him that I didn't think that he was usually right about our different debates that we've had, but rather he's just extremely adept at finding the flaws in everyone elses arguments and focusing on those, thus distracting everyone from the holes in his own logic, and he just paused, and looked at me and finally said 'Well then, I think you and I are very similar in that way......I'm just better at doing it.' which I unfortunately had to agree with....he also thanked me for complimenting his arguing abilities. I then somehow got him onto the topic of memes, and he started this whole speech about meme history and he was really getting into it, and I was just enjoying listening to him so I tried to engage him as best I could, when he finally just stopped in the middle of his speech, looked at me, and said 'Wait, so why on earth are you still patronizing this conversation....??' and I told him that I enjoy listening to people talk about things they like, because it allows me to see into their character and why they are the way they are, and he laughed nervously and said 'Oh dear...well, let's talk about you then.' and I started to talk about myself but was having issues because I wasn't certain what he wanted to hear, and I told him that, and so he said he'd ask me questions, and he proceeded to ask me question after question, ranging from whether I liked tea or coffee more and why, whether pots or pans were better, whether I preferred Tangled or Frozen, what my favorite stocking stuffer gift I'd ever gotten for Christmas was, and if I'd had a favorite teddy bear growing up. I'd turn the question to him after answering it and he'd respond, but the questions just kept coming. Now his parents and my sister by this time were sitting in the living room with us and having their own discussion next to him and I, but he and I just ended up talking to each other for quite a bit.

Then, since my sister and I still had to drive for 10 more hours the next day to get home, his parents said we should all go to bed, and so we did. The next morning he once again ended up coming to breakfast after his mom, dad and my sister and I had all been eating for a while, and he just sat and listened while his mom asked us questions and my sister and I answered them. I think he did end up staring at me on a couple of occasions during breakfast, but that might have just been coincidental, I dunno.

So, he was his usual goofy self while we got ready to leave and packed our things, said goodbye in his usual perky way, and gave me a big hug as we left.

I guess I just wrote that whole long thing out just now to see once again what your thoughts are on the matter, if you even have any new ones at this point. I was sort of going to gauge his behavior towards me during this trip as a test on whether or not he might still be interested and go from there, but I guess it just wasn't terribly conclusive for me? My honest opinion currently, just going with my (usually relatively accurate) intuition is that he seemed to very much enjoy talking with me, he did tease me on a few occasions, and my gut currently says that I think he does like me, but I don't want to just go off of my gut just because of how biased I am regarding this whole thing, which is why I began this thread in the first place. :p

Anyway, thanks for surviving through this whole thing, I know it's super long and maybe too detailed, but I'm writing on a time constraint currently and just wanted to get as much as possible written down in case you had any thoughts.

Thanks for everything! :)
 

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@SophaDivine

I am back and am not sure if things have changed/advanced in your situation.


I will truncate to save a novel in-case this convo is no longer relative.


ENTP are strange in the above post of yours you can see a little of this.
One can look at it and say there is a certain interest. One may also look
at his actions and say he was being polite and engaging to meet social
norms. As an example. I can dislike a person yet have an enthralling conversation
with said person that may make it seem as if I do like the person. Yet I
do not. I am enjoying the moment and that specific caveat of that person.

On the other hand.... if I like someone and I am unsure how to
advance the situation I typically will not assume that I should move
faster and push the issue. I will just continue with the niceties and
assume that if the other likes me they will eventually allude to this.
I MAY try and, through subterfuge and manipulation of conversation, get
them to admit it without really admitting it. Ego pending. If there is
like zero risk of collateral damage if I am rejected I would probably
be very forward. Yet I do not see a zero risk scenario between you two.
Your lives are intertwined. Thus leading to have to consider emotional
fallout good or bad from any move he may make towards a romantic/physical
end, with you.

If you could somehow alleviate a concern for him over potential rejection
and/or embarrassment to him via the group you share with him....that would
be good. Yet how? You have the same issue right now with him.

hmmm ...interesting.

ENTP eh.... ? We have a knack for reducing the romance to
negative proportions.

ENTP: "You see she has 3 units of love and I have at least 4. It makes logical sense
that we need to take one unit from me and split it thus allowing us to secure equal
units for the best results"
 

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Discussion Starter #25
@FueledByEvil

Your inimitable response has come through once again, and it's great to hear from you/receive your insight, as always. :D

I myself have been thoroughly busy with college application/music program audition preparation the past month, so I apologize for being somewhat late in responding myself.

Regarding the whole ENTP situation, it's practically comical at this point considering how much I've written on here regarding every little interaction we've ever had (which, to be fair, have really only been a few at this point) but maybe about a week after visiting with him and his family I wanted to not only be polite and give him a message of thanks for assisting me with setting up the stay at his house, but also inform him that I genuinely enjoyed our interactions and was looking forward to continuing them in the future (in pretty direct words) and see how he responded to that. I know, I know, not exactly a confession of love, but if you know me, that was pretty dang close to one. :p

He responded (pretty quickly) that he was happy to help and was glad we'd made it back safely. It was short and sweet and quite kind, but he hasn't made any other attempt at communication since then and didn't address anything about what I'd said regarding our interactions. So I sort of have decided to leave it (or rather him) in peace for the moment. I'm pretty occupied trying to decide if I should remain in my home town and go to college ten minutes from where I live or move out to Mississippi to a nice private (but horrendously expensive) college there. As for any plans he's not made regarding what to study at college/where to do study, I of course have no clue about.

So, if you have any other thoughts you'd like to share about this, please feel free! I thoroughly enjoy your responses and would love to keep up communication if possible. :)

Something else I wanted to ask, have you ever dealt with any feelings of depression before? Or has that never been something you've struggled with? I don't necessarily think the ENTP fellow is 100% depressed, but he is most certainly prone to melancholy/deals with feeling dissatisfied with much that life has to offer, if that makes any sense....? I know that he was often unhappy in school and would struggle to find motivation to do his work, but that's not terribly uncommon for most everyone.

I'm just curious how ENTPs, who are (stereotypically) not always the most in touch with most emotions, would deal with depressive feelings or tendencies. ENTPs I know are very much the classic life of the party, and have a sort of 'I don't have time for feeling bad about stuff or lingering on negative thoughts' attitude. Any thoughts on that would be welcomed too. :)
 

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I myself have been thoroughly busy with college application/music program audition preparation the past month, so I apologize for being somewhat late in responding myself.
*checks watch* ...your response was right on time because it was when you wanted to.
Such is the bonus of passive forums.

but also inform him that I genuinely enjoyed our interactions and was looking forward to continuing them in the future (in pretty direct words) and see how he responded to that. I know, I know, not exactly a confession of love, but if you know me, that was pretty dang close to one. :p
I agree! That was pretty damned forward. Enough for the level you two were/are at.
To my mind anyhow.

Something else I wanted to ask, have you ever dealt with any feelings of depression before? Or has that never been something you've struggled with? I don't necessarily think the ENTP fellow is 100% depressed, but he is most certainly prone to melancholy/deals with feeling dissatisfied with much that life has to offer, if that makes any sense....? I know that he was often unhappy in school and would struggle to find motivation to do his work, but that's not terribly uncommon for most everyone.

I'm just curious how ENTPs, who are (stereotypically) not always the most in touch with most emotions, would deal with depressive feelings or tendencies. ENTPs I know are very much the classic life of the party, and have a sort of 'I don't have time for feeling bad about stuff or lingering on negative thoughts' attitude. Any thoughts on that would be welcomed too. :)
Well I can fall victim. Hmm victim seems as if it wasn't self induced and most of the
time my depressive states can usually be tracked back to a decision I made. So
maybe not victim so much. Okay i victimize myself. Shame....thats
one of my main drivers for my depressive states. That works. Moving on....

Yes I have/can fall into mild depression. It will manifest itself in areas of my life
that I am not so great at becoming even more crappy. I will shower less, sleep more,
become reclusive, close out communication, self reflect for a time until I have either
justified the depression or discredit it completely. If I justify it? I know I am the
creator and I have only myself to blame thus allowing me to make a change to forgo
that depression from that item simply by avoiding that item moving forward.
If I discredit the depression it means I have found, basically, that I am being a baby and need
to put my big boy face back on and move the heck on. Both items are clearly not clinical
depression. I have no idea what clinical depression would do to me and I am almost certain I
have never had it. There was a time in my youth where I was suicidal yet it was more tied to
drug use and the feeling that I had done so much wrong to myself that there may never be a way out.
I beat that even on my own by simply pushing through a new phase in my life and abandoning
everything I had built up until that point. Or abandoning everything I had destroyed is a more apt
description. Now when I say I was suicidal it was more thoughts of not being here.
I never actually tried anything or even took a step towards such an end. It was a
hypothetical exploration of me not existing in a thought experiment. I really felt
as if I had lost everything. It was a sad time yet a great learning experience. I learned alot
about myself I may have never know. The depths of which can creep me out until this day.
That said... I am FueledByEvil. I put myself into situations that drove those feelings home.
By my own doing. I never really hurt others yet I was a sucker for hurting myself.
No issues there.


As a catch all for ENTP .. I cant say. I will try this here as a basic
statement that seems to fit the stereotype of ENTP. We will rationalize
depression. We are also the least likely to become depressed,
apparently.


Nice to see ya again, by the way.
 

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@FueledByEvil cats can definitely be pets. Hamsters, snakes, and fish etc. aren't pets. they are more decoration. especially fish.I would argue that "Domesticated" is a relative term. while cats are not as domesticated as dogs, they are domesticated. and they can be tamed.

my cat is most certainly tamed.

I don't agree with that definition anyway. a wolf can't be a pet by that definition and yet there are people who have pet wolves. A lion could not be a pet. but a house cat most certainly can be.

that definition of pet only works if you view "tamed" and "domesticated" as relative terms. to be used loosely. Trained would be a more appropriate term than tamed. for example. but since tamed means "not frightened by people", I would say it works too.

at any rate, your splitting hairs over the definition of pet. While we may not agree on the term, the spirit of the word we can agree I'm sure. when using the word pet, while technically any cow or pig could be a pet, I bet its a rare person that would considers their cow or their pig (some pigs are kept as pets in the spirit of the word) a pet.

When people use the word pet, what they are saying is usually an animal companion. Cats, Dogs, Birds, hamsters, etc. all fit that definition while only dogs really fit the technical definition of pet. I am always surprised by how often the definition listed in the dictionary doesn't match up with the realistic use of a word. it's like looking at your favorite movies on Rotten Tomatoes. always surprised at how out of touch the critics are.
I would argue that we are more being trained by the cat than we are training cat. Cats don't do anything they don't want to do. That's why I love them. They're like me, in a cute furry form.

Dogs, although very easily trainable and truly do "love" you, are needy, non-independent things. I can't stand needy and non-independent, whether they are furry or human.

Fish are not pets but decoration.
 

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@FueledByEvil

Something else I wanted to ask, have you ever dealt with any feelings of depression before? Or has that never been something you've struggled with? I don't necessarily think the ENTP fellow is 100% depressed, but he is most certainly prone to melancholy/deals with feeling dissatisfied with much that life has to offer, if that makes any sense....? I know that he was often unhappy in school and would struggle to find motivation to do his work, but that's not terribly uncommon for most everyone.

I'm just curious how ENTPs, who are (stereotypically) not always the most in touch with most emotions, would deal with depressive feelings or tendencies. ENTPs I know are very much the classic life of the party, and have a sort of 'I don't have time for feeling bad about stuff or lingering on negative thoughts' attitude. Any thoughts on that would be welcomed too. :)
I don't think classic depression is typical of ENTPs. I would argue that feeling dissatisfied with life is not depression. Everyone's feelings fluctuate and sometimes the feelings are overwhelming. "Classic" depression symptoms like laying around, not interacting, being a recluse, etc. are probably going to be short lived with an ENTP because, although we are bad at putting our finger how we are actually feeling, we are really good at analytically looking at our own situations in almost a 3rd party view way. We would do just as @FueledByEvil (hi BTW Fueled, I've been quiet on here for a while-hope things are well) would do in that we would say that we have control over dealing with it and figure it out move on. It is probably not going to be anything that lasts.

I found when I was actually going through depression when I was in college, I was more likely to push my feelings away and not want to think about it. I would party more when I was depressed because I didn't want to be alone with my thoughts. It felt like bad things would happen if I actually slowed down and let myself feel and think. In a way, it actually worked in that by the time I did slow down, it did not seem as bad and I had a different perspective. I've heard a few ENTPs on here that said they experienced something similar.
 

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I would argue that we are more being trained by the cat than we are training cat. Cats don't do anything they don't want to do. That's why I love them. They're like me, in a cute furry form.

Dogs, although very easily trainable and truly do "love" you, are needy, non-independent things. I can't stand needy and non-independent, whether they are furry or human.

Fish are not pets but decoration.
my cat is very needy, but yes they are, generally, less trainable than dogs.
but that doesn't mean they are not tamed. And they can be trained to do things.

Cats can be pets.
 

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(hi BTW Fueled, I've been quiet on here for a while-hope things are well)
O you know....more of the same Geo, as per the norm in my SJ structured life.

The newest type item I have had fun with
is my granddaughters mom trying to tell me to stop
bringing sugar for my granddaughter when I come over.

I disagreed and questioned their dietary constraints on
a perfectly healthy 2 year old. Further, I reminded them
that I see her on average 2 times a week and if sugar needs
to be reduced they can do it on their own time.

Before I went over the last time I just bluntly asked:
"Is my 2 year old granddaughter still on a diet or can
I go back to being a grandparent?" Her dad (my eldest boy)
is ESFJ so if I really want to push an item; guilt is the easiest way.


One of the awesome parts about it all is watching my granddaughter
learn the dynamic between my son and I. She is learning that she
can get away with quite a bit when I am around and her parents will
usually be humbled by my wife and I. She uses that like a pro!
As soon as I walk in she is all about doing the items she knows her
parents disallow when my wife and I are not there. Cheeky little girl.
I love watching my kids face go red when she looks at him as she touches
items she shouldn't be but she knows he wont say crap with me there.
 

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my cat is very needy, but yes they are, generally, less trainable than dogs.
but that doesn't mean they are not tamed. And they can be trained to do things.

Cats can be pets.
Oh, cats are definitely pets. I've had them most of my life and recently adopted a 2 year old tabby who is awesome. His biggest neediness is getting his wet food in the evening (again, he has trained us by annoying the F out of us until we feed him) and he is obsessed with a bee on a wire toy that he will sit on and meow incessantly until we play with him. Otherwise, he does his thing. He is a very friendly cat, if we are around, so is he and he completely puts up with kids poking him and picking him up. He even hung out with my 9 year old daughter and 4 friends having a sleepover despite the load noise and squealing. I wanted to be out of that room, yet he hung out in the middle of everyone.
 

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O you know....more of the same Geo, as per the norm in my SJ structured life.

The newest type item I have had fun with
is my granddaughters mom trying to tell me to stop
bringing sugar for my granddaughter when I come over.

I disagreed and questioned their dietary constraints on
a perfectly healthy 2 year old. Further, I reminded them
that I see her on average 2 times a week and if sugar needs
to be reduced they can do it on their own time.

Before I went over the last time I just bluntly asked:
"Is my 2 year old granddaughter still on a diet or can
I go back to being a grandparent?" Her dad (my eldest boy)
is ESFJ so if I really want to push an item; guilt is the easiest way.


One of the awesome parts about it all is watching my granddaughter
learn the dynamic between my son and I. She is learning that she
can get away with quite a bit when I am around and her parents will
usually be humbled by my wife and I. She uses that like a pro!
As soon as I walk in she is all about doing the items she knows her
parents disallow when my wife and I are not there. Cheeky little girl.
I love watching my kids face go red when she looks at him as she touches
items she shouldn't be but she knows he wont say crap with me there.
Isn't it your right as a grandpa to fill them up with sugar and let them get away with murder?
 

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Oh, cats are definitely pets. I've had them most of my life and recently adopted a 2 year old tabby who is awesome. His biggest neediness is getting his wet food in the evening (again, he has trained us by annoying the F out of us until we feed him) and he is obsessed with a bee on a wire toy that he will sit on and meow incessantly until we play with him. Otherwise, he does his thing. He is a very friendly cat, if we are around, so is he and he completely puts up with kids poking him and picking him up. He even hung out with my 9 year old daughter and 4 friends having a sleepover despite the load noise and squealing. I wanted to be out of that room, yet he hung out in the middle of everyone.
My cat hasn't trained me. I just ignore him when he cries for food he doesn't need. He tried to pull that nonsense in the morning when I first adopted him. but eventually he got with the program. now he knows he gets fed when I get up. whether I wake up at 4 am or 11 am and he doesn't bother me till then.

My cat is generally very chillaxed. Mostly like a Korat in appearance in temperament. he cries for attention. he acts like he doesn't want to be held, but he wants to be. because the only way to get him to stop whining is to give him some attention by wrestling with him. you can say that's him training me, but that's no different than a dog. :)

he runs and hides from strangers.
 
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