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I have always been fond of Louis' documentaries. His styles, the topics he covers. Some in recent years have been exceptionally good, like the Dementia episode.

However, his most recent addition, on Transgenders in America, is the first time I've stopped watching after 10 minutes.
A 5 year old boy was allowed by his own parents to indulge in wishes to be more like a girl. That included dressing like one.
I found this absolutely sickening. Such a young age where people can't possibly know what they truly are or want to be, and for crap like this to be seen as acceptable.

What is wrong with these people? The child should be taken from them & put into foster care.
 

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Such a young age where people can't possibly know what they truly are or want to be, and for crap like this to be seen as acceptable
If they are undecided why would it be a bad thing to increase their options and opportunities rather than deciding for them? It doesn't seem consistent to not allow the boy to explore things in order to learn.
 

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Don't take my comment too personally. I am more goofing around than actually attacking you.

However, his most recent addition, on Transgenders in America, is the first time I've stopped watching after 10 minutes.
Maybe you should have waited more (I haven't heard of the show, but it sounds cool with both the dementia and transgender topics).

A 5 year old boy was allowed by his own parents to indulge in wishes to be more like a girl. That included dressing like one.
What wrong with exploring. Apparently there is some inner drive behind that. Forbidding him won't do anything but damage.

I found this absolutely sickening. Such a young age where people can't possibly know what they truly are or want to be, and for crap like this to be seen as acceptable.
I find it sickening that you're feeling like that. One of the more popular cases Showing that you just feel what your gender should be like .. in a way.

What is wrong with these people? The child should be taken from them & put into foster care.
What's wrong with you? You should be taken into a mental facility for a severe case of narrow mindedness.
 

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I have always been fond of Louis' documentaries. His styles, the topics he covers. Some in recent years have been exceptionally good, like the Dementia episode.

However, his most recent addition, on Transgenders in America, is the first time I've stopped watching after 10 minutes.
A 5 year old boy was allowed by his own parents to indulge in wishes to be more like a girl. That included dressing like one.
I found this absolutely sickening. Such a young age where people can't possibly know what they truly are or want to be, and for crap like this to be seen as acceptable.

What is wrong with these people? The child should be taken from them & put into foster care.
I encourage you to educate yourself on 1) how gender identity is a social construct, 2) that parenting does not mean impose your will on a child but to encourage growth with guidance in an emotionally safe environment 3) learn to effectively communicate without using irrational judgements and generalizing statements appealing to emotion if you intend to be taken seriously.

I think you have a great deal if self-reflecting to do to discover what is more wrong with you. Judging from your response to this issue, you may want to look into your own problems with gender identity first.
 

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My parents allowed me to wear boy clothes from age 5 upward (I started wearing girls clothes again when I was 11). Did it hurt me? A bit. I was bullied for it a little, but then again, they would have found something else to bully me with (The bullying stopped after the teachers finally intervened when they started calling me a Mof, a Dutch insult directed at Germans somewhere between the English Kraut and Nazi in severity.)

It did help me to develop into the person I am now, a person that still prefers practical, androgynous clothing but also knows that whatever decision I make, my parents will support me. A person that likes to wear dresses for official occasions, but crossdresses convincingly when cosplaying as male characters, and pays little attention to gender when choosing friends.
 

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My parents allowed me to wear boy clothes from age 5 upward (I started wearing girls clothes again when I was 11). Did it hurt me? A bit. I was bullied for it a little, but then again, they would have found something else to bully me with (The bullying stopped after the teachers finally intervened when they started calling me a Mof, a Dutch insult directed at Germans somewhere between the English Kraut and Nazi in severity.)

It did help me to develop into the person I am now, a person that still prefers practical, androgynous clothing but also knows that whatever decision I make, my parents will support me. A person that likes to wear dresses for official occasions, but crossdresses convincingly when cosplaying as male characters, and pays little attention to gender when choosing friends.

It hurt you because people were cruel. It did not hurt your intellectual development. Those who carry OPs attitudes are the ones responsible for the damage. A child that is encouraged to explore both gender identities is a more well rounded human being with a better grasp on self-idenitty sooner than later if they were encouraged at a younger age.

I see very few disadvantages to the decision these parents made. And all of the "disadvantages" are external factors that indicate society's need to grow rather than the individual.
 

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I have always been fond of Louis' documentaries. His styles, the topics he covers. Some in recent years have been exceptionally good, like the Dementia episode.

However, his most recent addition, on Transgenders in America, is the first time I've stopped watching after 10 minutes.
A 5 year old boy was allowed by his own parents to indulge in wishes to be more like a girl. That included dressing like one.
I found this absolutely sickening. Such a young age where people can't possibly know what they truly are or want to be, and for crap like this to be seen as acceptable.

What is wrong with these people? The child should be taken from them & put into foster care.

I hate to tell you otherwise but children understand their gender very concretely at that age, as well as sex.
Gender does not equate to sex.
 

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It hurt you because people were cruel. It did not hurt your intellectual development. Those who carry OPs attitudes are the ones responsible for the damage. A child that is encouraged to explore both gender identities is a more well rounded human being with a better grasp on self-idenitty sooner than later if they were encouraged at a younger age.

I see very few disadvantages to the decision these parents made. And all of the "disadvantages" are external factors that indicate society's need to grow rather than the individual.
To elaborate: I was trying to say that it would have hurt me more if they hadn't let me wear boy's clothes. Even literally. Sliding down a tree in a pair of flimsy girl's pants is not fun.
 

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It hurt you because people were cruel. It did not hurt your intellectual development. Those who carry OPs attitudes are the ones responsible for the damage. A child that is encouraged to explore both gender identities is a more well rounded human being with a better grasp on self-idenitty sooner than later if they were encouraged at a younger age.

I see very few disadvantages to the decision these parents made. And all of the "disadvantages" are external factors that indicate society's need to grow rather than the individual.
To clarify: I was trying to say that it would have hurt me more if they hadn't let me wear boy's clothes. Even literally. Sliding down a tree in a pair of flimsy girl's pants is not fun.
 

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It hurt you because people were cruel. It did not hurt your intellectual development. Those who carry OPs attitudes are the ones responsible for the damage. A child that is encouraged to explore both gender identities is a more well rounded human being with a better grasp on self-idenitty sooner than later if they were encouraged at a younger age.

I see very few disadvantages to the decision these parents made. And all of the "disadvantages" are external factors that indicate society's need to grow rather than the individual.
I agree with a lot of comments made so far in response to the OP but especially with this one.

All I can say is that the OP made me feel sad. Hopefully the world will move on from that perspective soon.
 

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For the OP, a basic understanding:

Gender normative children normally have a very strong sense of gender identity at an early age.
The development of gender differentiation in young children - Yee - 2011 - British Journal of Social Psychology - Wiley Online Library

Gender identities of transgender children are indistiguishable from gender-normative kids:
Transgender children aren't confused about their gender identity, study finds | Fox News

(Note that this article is reported from FoxNews, which is usually far more conservative than other news channels.)


I'm all for people doing what they want but from what i understand being transgender seems more like a mental illness than anything.
It's not a mental illness.
However, the dysphoria that comes with it is an issue but but a treatable one.
 

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Well, the OP went and pissed everyone off and then ran away like a pussy(hey, that's sexist!) so I guess it's up to me to keep this discussion going!

A 5 year old boy was allowed by his own parents to indulge in wishes to be more like a girl. That included dressing like one.
I found this absolutely sickening. Such a young age where people can't possibly know what they truly are or want to be, and for crap like this to be seen as acceptable.
I agree! Five years of age is way too young to be thinking about a child's gender identity. A person that young couldn't even truly conceptualize the difference. They might like girl clothes, but that doesn't mean they actually "know" they are a girl. A five year old boy shouldn't even know what a vagina is or anything about sex so even if they like Barbie dolls and dresses then that's still only a narrow set of things for being a girl. Maybe they're just an effeminate boy, or gay or anything else. I'm not sure anyone can know at that age. Making them wear boy clothes sure as hell isn't going to hurt them at all, but letting them wear girl clothes definitely will since they will be bullied for it.

I encourage you to educate yourself on 1) how gender identity is a social construct
If gender identity is purely a social construct and not innate then making him wear boy clothes and play with GI Joe would MAKE him a boy. If gender identity were purely social then conversion therapy would work (protip: it doesn't). Gender identity isn't a social construct at all, it's based partly on nurture for sure, but ALSO partly on nature. The problem here isn't that gender identity doesn't contain an innate part, it's that you can't reliably understand that at the age of 5.

2) that parenting does not mean impose your will on a child but to encourage growth with guidance in an emotionally safe environment
Eh, not really. That sounds nice and I'm sure you mean it in a good way, but there are many things about which a parent must FORCE their kid to obey. Part of parenting is letting your kid explore, but part of it is also forcing them to do certain things you know are right but they are too young to understand and also trying to protect them from negative outcomes.

I think you have a great deal if self-reflecting to do to discover what is more wrong with you. Judging from your response to this issue, you may want to look into your own problems with gender identity first.
Five years old is not very old. The brain is still very much in a state of flux at that age and it's not unfair at all to question whether a person's personality at five is in any way indicative of their personality at 25.

I'm all for people doing what they want but from what i understand being transgender seems more like a mental illness than anything.
From any sort of logically consistent way of classifying mental illness things like homosexuality and certainly transgenderism should be considered mental illnesses. Now, before everyone gets their panties into a wad(hey, that's sexist!) I am saying that not because there is anything "wrong" with being either of these things but because our definitions of "mental illness" include dozens of other things that are just as much normal variations in the human species. There is no logical reason why we consider one difference to be worthy of defending while considering another to be worthy of scorn. Depending on where you live there are probably laws protecting 5-10 different "protected classes" and I would argue that by any rational point of view that number should be more like 25. Why is "gender identity" a protected class that people defend so vigorously but dozens of other far more common and more "normal" variations among humans are considered "diseases"? I hate our whole system and the MASSIVE hypocrisy it breeds in threads like this. The same people who come here and smugly defend gender identity will go into another thread and show no empathy at all to people with other differences, nor will society in general. People will demand blood from those who think a little differently or have certain problems, but then demand their own differences be respected and their own problems forgiven. I wish I understood why people drew lines in one place and not others. At least with Christians I can UNDERSTAND where their rational come from because they have a crazy book telling them what to do, but with "progressives" it seems like they take that same book and then just add 2-3 more classes (gender identity and sexual preference), but don't go deeper and understand WHY they just add those two and not the 100 other things in the DSM V.

For the OP, a basic understanding:

Gender normative children normally have a very strong sense of gender identity at an early age.
The development of gender differentiation in young children - Yee - 2011 - British Journal of Social Psychology - Wiley Online Library

Gender identities of transgender children are indistiguishable from gender-normative kids:
Transgender children aren't confused about their gender identity, study finds | Fox News
Both these studies were 5+ years of age and therefore are only slightly related to the topic at hand which is a five year old. More importantly as someone with a good background in statistics I can tell you that a study with 50 people is basically worth poop (especially since VERY few will have been five like this topic is about) and a study with 128 isn't exactly very strong either. People shouldn't even be allowed to perform studies with that few participants because they simply don't carry statistical significance unless the variable being tested correlates very strongly. IMO it's not scientifically honest to perform studies with such a low sample size, but that's a question for another day I guess. The bigger point is that the ability of a child to understand their own gender means a very different thing at five than it does at 18. A five year old may indicate their gender based on a color (they were TOLD indicates their gender) or an activity (like playing soccer vs having tea parties), but those mean so little at that age. I guarantee you the vast majority of the things that a five year old considers as defining their gender will be completely different by the time they are an adult. I don't understand why anyone would want to try to pigeonhole their kid as transgendered at the age of five. If your kid was mean at the age of five would you assume they would always be and not try to teach them to be nice? If they were bad at school at that age would you assume they would always be and not push them to do better? So if they like dolls at age five why assume they will like feminine things forever? It's not going to hurt them to keep dressing them up in masculine clothes. What conception does a five year old even have of clothes except what they've been told anyways? I sure as hell didn't have any choice about what I wore at that age. Even if they have a conceptualization of what their gender identity is that only means they can conceptualize what they've been TOLD their gender identity is. To actually have a decent study you would need to interview thousands of kids and then follow them into adulthood and see if the ones who at a mature age (say 25) feel strongly that they are transgendered had a different gender identity when they were five or if they grew into their mature identity at a later date.
 

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How about dressing kids up in more unisex clothes?
In a perfect world nobody would give two shits so it wouldn't matter. In the real world, I just don't know. I was more expressing concern over how everyone here seems to think this is some open and shut case when really it's incredibly complex. Do unisex clothes even exist for kids? I don't have any kids so I have no clue really.

PS: I've been listening to Nyan Cat on repeat for hours so all your arguments are now invalid. ^___^
 

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In a perfect world nobody would give two shits so it wouldn't matter. In the real world, I just don't know. I was more expressing concern over how everyone here seems to think this is some open and shut case when really it's incredibly complex. Do unisex clothes even exist for kids? I don't have any kids so I have no clue really.

PS: I've been listening to Nyan Cat on repeat for hours so all your arguments are now invalid. ^___^
Well, they used to be quite ubiquitous. Pants and shirts should fit both, as the bodies aren't that different yet. As long as it isn't all pink or has BOY written on it, you should be fine. I always feel for kids that get dressed up like little adults...
 

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Maybe educate yourself first about the science behind transgenderism before you discuss about it. Use facts. Not your own assumptions derived from lack of knowledge. You don't see me complaining about Higgs Boson particles cuz I have no idea what they are!
 
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