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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Why is it that I attract 5s into my life... my first one ended with family situation / LDR combination.

This one is local. I know that I am important to him. He shows it in many ways but it takes me a lot of patience as it is not proceeding in any speed... his charisteristics and actions, so typically 5sh:

-not keen on phone calls, we mostly what's up and he is normally very quick to answer but very short replies
-he compartmentalizes school (weekdays) and kids (weekend). He is divorced. I seem to be the most flexible in the equation, there fore we do not see very often
-in many ways it seems like he wants to keep his distance but he does share about school and sends me little notes of his day
-he has said I am the best thing happened to him
-he has said I am part of his life
-he is totally intense when we are together. Leaves no doubt.

-we had breakups along the way as it has been so hard for me to understand his hoarding ways. I am afraid that each breakup has meant he has become even more cautious about us, thus even slower. We have known about 19months
-this time I am determined to go his speed although it is hard
-he seems like wanting me in his life but is afraid to do much about it

How can I encourage him? He definitely knows I am a good person. He is so cool but so sensitive at the same time. It's like walking on egg shells with him. I am afraid to ask for too much, but trying to keep my foot in the door. But what would I not do for love? I am not in any hurry.

I know he is a good man with so many right qualities.
I am probably a 9w8 sx/sp. Will this caveman ever be enough for me?
I know my love cannot change him. But I think when he can totally trust me with time he will allow me in his life more.
His type is said to be the hardest with romantic relationships in the enneagram and I totally agree.

Any comments from fives or partners of fives?
 

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As a 5w6 SP I have never been in a relationship and understand that my 5ness has a lot to do with that.

SP 5's are known as "the castles" we surround ourselves with walls to protect ourselves from the world and from other people. I completely relate to this and have frequently heard from others how difficult it is to know and get close to me.

If someone asks what is the secret to gaining access to me, I honestly don't know what the answer is. Time perhaps but the wait can be very long as you said.

I not sure what to suggest that can lead you to "success." But one thing that's really important is that you have to be intellectual honest as to whether or not his "5ness" is going to be at variance with your own needs in a relationship.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thank you for sharing, gbreal. It is so good to hear from someone who understands what is going on inside of him.

It is so shady with him. In his good moments he is almost not a five. Sometimes he is very open and initiative (not very often though), he talks about our future, he admits he doesnt have the best relationship skills, he wonders how I am still there, he says he hates his school atm since it ruins a big part of his life (letting me on that includes us). So much showing that he'd like more, but if I start elaborating and asking further, his first instinct is to close up like a shell.

To me it feels like a big part of it is fear. Fear of giving in to his feelings, which he has for me, no doubt. Some of his actions feel like he is really testing me. Like unconsiously trying to get rid of me. Like he can go for a month without seeing each other. My lifeline is waiting until his school is over the worst by January. Then I expect it'll be better.

I will stick with him but of course in the long run I will want more. He has stated he has a house big enough to share. Some of the things he says are like a dream world. What he probably wants deep down but he cannot make his actions work towards them. The "5ness" stoppping him, sort of.


Found this in another thread. Hits home with a 5, no?

"Learn his strategy. If he is anything like me it's: observe, determine compatibility, security. This doesn't just take time, time itself is one of the tests. If you stick around for a long time and can put up with my weird and don't go away even when pushed, I might grow to trust you and admire you. If you do all that and can open me up to you, you're in. Once you're in, providing you stay attentive to keeping me open and not withdrawing, you can have me forever."
 

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Thank you for sharing, gbreal. It is so good to hear from someone who understands what is going on inside of him.

It is so shady with him. In his good moments he is almost not a five. Sometimes he is very open and initiative (not very often though), he talks about our future, he admits he doesnt have the best relationship skills, he wonders how I am still there, he says he hates his school atm since it ruins a big part of his life (letting me on that includes us). So much showing that he'd like more, but if I start elaborating and asking further, his first instinct is to close up like a shell.

To me it feels like a big part of it is fear. Fear of giving in to his feelings, which he has for me, no doubt. Some of his actions feel like he is really testing me. Like unconsiously trying to get rid of me. Like he can go for a month without seeing each other. My lifeline is waiting until his school is over the worst by January. Then I expect it'll be better.
This is very 5ish. I can be like a yo-yo in my dealings with others. At times there are moments of closeness, openness followed by distance, coldness.

5's wants to be autonomous, have their own space and protect themselves from over-merging with another person. So when someone comes around that we like there is a internal battle of connection versus separation which is why others get the on/off vibe.

Based on his comments about you he seems to like you but is still fighting the internal battle with himself and as you mentioned it's based on fear. 5's fear that if they open the door of their "castle" to a person, that person will use their access improperly and destroy them. (Very dramatic I know!)

It's much safer the keep the walls which separate us from other people up. That way we are safe. However, the effect is that the other party feels rejected and looks to other pastures for a relationship thinking we are not interested in them when the truth is we are interested it just our self preservational instinct wins out in the end.

This is why relationships with 5's are probably the most difficult type to have. As I stated in my previous post I myself don't have a solution because I have the same problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It is oh so true what you are writing. You must be a lot like him but with one big difference. You can recognize and acknowledge this side of yourself since you are familiar with enneagram. I have mentioned enneagram to him but he took it with a nod and didn't show much interest. What if I sent him a E5 description? That might be too much...

I so much would like to see him but he is in his avoidant distant mood. He may reply to my messages when I talk about some news or ask his opinion on some factual matter. But if I ask him how are your studies and when might we next see each other... silence...
I said I am asking because I care and I think this exam season is killing him. I miss him dearly. No comment.

Then no suggestion to meet even though he said it should soon get easier. I went and asked if this is something else, fear about us etc and that I like him even when it's stressful times. He came back copying posts from his student forum where everyone is cursing the amount of work they have to do. I think the best way to forget about stressful times is to spend time with someone you care. Instead he pulls back. I said a little peak to his life would suffice and that he probably does not understand my longing for him and it is not something I can control by reasoning. Silence again. Let's see for how long. I really don't want to hear 'no' all the time so I guess I have to wait until he comes around again...
 

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When I was in a relationship with a 9 it was with an immense buffer in place: distance. Things would initially get better the closer we were, but after a time the closeness was always too much and became a problem, then factors in life would cause the distance to enter again and our relationship would improve because absence made my 5 heart grow stronger.

To be in a relationship with someone who strikes a delicate balance of both proximity (physical closeness without becoming a person who taxes the 5's reserves, but also emotionally aware of the 5 and their rather subtle indications of what's going on) and distance (live your own life, do your own thing, complete your solitary pursuits without resentment, share these moments of your fulfilling life when together with the 5) is really the ideal.

I wasn't able to strike the balance with the 9. We were always either too far or too close in one dimension or another, whether physical or emotional. It felt like tug of war. It doesn't help that they're both withdrawn types. It didn't help that my partner was Fi dominant, despite how that meant the SX 9 was not only great at listening to me but also picked up on the things I wasn't saying... but knew I was feeling... I'm not exaggerating. The strong point of the relationship was my partner being direct with me about what I was feeling but not saying. My 4 wing would flare up and I'd fall into a whirlwind of conflicting feelings that the 9 would then help me to confront and acknowledge.

Couldn't get away with the whole "You just wouldn't understand." excuse, because my partner did understand, and most importantly was willing to understand. If a 5 turns stoic, there's a disconnect from the emotional undercurrents because it just makes life easier to manage, less dramatic, but it also lacks fervency. There's something very reassuring about being with a person who wants to scale the walls no matter what's on the other side of them. Gentle persistence always works. There's also something so effective in appealing to the "faith" aspect of a 5's 6-wing. Communicating in some way that you have faith in them, that you trust they'll come 'round. That you know they can do whatever they've set their mind (and heart) on doing, but also that they don't have to do it alone, that you are there.

The open invitation itself is so heart-warming. Someone who knows how to remind a 5 that they are there, without resentment, without expectation, but with sincere affection and longevity, and offer those reminders casually. It gives the 5 something to look forward to, and even build positive anticipation to bridge that gap. I think it pays off... but I'm a 5, I haven't seen it from the other side, I don't know what it's like except as a sibling to another 5.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
It is hard to strike a balance if I would like to see every week or at least every other week or so and for him once a month can be too much when he is busy. He keeps telling me that if he was able to see me he would.

The way you write about gentle resistance and "faith". It sounds good and can work but when you get turned down time after time, it is terribly hard for a sexual 9 (or 2 maybe) to keep the faith on that he still wants me in his life.

I have trust that he'll come around eventually but I am so afraid to get sucked into this again knowing that he will pull back again anytime without a warning.

Now I am waiting if distance makes his heart grow fonder or if he has realizes that there is too much on his plate with studies and kids that he doesn't need me. In that case he would probably not tell me that it is over, instead he would fade away slowly. Who knows?
I was told not to take it personally but how else can you take it? It hurts.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
An update on our story. I gave him space and wrote him today saying sorry I pushed you. He said he's the one who should be sorry since right now he cannot promise me anything... so that's it. No more us. I have confessed my feelings and wanting to have him as part of my life. He thought about it for a while and commented "maybe some day" meaning when his studies give him more freedom and when his kids are bigger. Seriously that will not change anything but tells me what I always liked about his 5ness is the no nonsense way of taking everything as it is. If he had enough time for me he would give it. But he cannot mix it all, that is not him. His responsibilities are with studies and kids and that leaves me out of the equation.
 

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Damn. If this sounds out of place, I apologize, but my impulse is to hug you.

That decision does seem to me to be the most appropriate and mature way to go about it. I get the feeling that anything else I would type would just risk rubbing salt in a wound, so- just, hugs.
 
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You sound like you are over functioning for a high maintenance person and I have no idea what you’re getting out of it but it sounds like a waste of time to me. More power to you though, if you think this person is worth it. In my opinion, if someone wants to be with you they don’t make it so damn difficult.
 

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oh... I just read the update looks like I was right. sorry didn’t work out. Finding an emotionally available man will more than make up for this, if that’s what you’re looking for. Good luck
 

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5W6 S.P. are the most private people in the universe
we don't share because our reasoning is '' why would anyone care what I do over the course of a day''
emotions are things other people have, they are illogical and alien to us
we never share our problems on account of they are ''our problems'' and no one else is qualified to understand our problems
you NF have chosen one of the most internalized private types to date
I in my 55 years have never opened up to a single person
there is this invisible field around us that no matter how hard we try prevents us from doing so
my advice is to either accept this or leave and find a non 5w6 S.P
 

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Discussion Starter #13
5W6 S.P. are the most private people in the universe
we don't share because our reasoning is '' why would anyone care what I do over the course of a day''
emotions are things other people have, they are illogical and alien to us
we never share our problems on account of they are ''our problems'' and no one else is qualified to understand our problems
you NF have chosen one of the most internalized private types to date
I in my 55 years have never opened up to a single person
there is this invisible field around us that no matter how hard we try prevents us from doing so
my advice is to either accept this or leave and find a non 5w6 S.P
I'll do my very best to run fast if I ever see another 5w6 SP :)

I could not have imagined that someone can think and feel that way he does. It is so totally out of grasp for me.
I thought I could love him enough to make him open up and accept me into his life. I know it is not me as a person and he tried his best to love me but it is not in him. What fooled me is his total presence when we were physically together. From the first time I saw him I had a total crush on him. Something I have never had with anyone else. Those rare moments together made me go a long way until our next date. In between there was not much of him.

Now since that is all that he could give me I am happy that he clearly told me he cannot promise anything more. I don't have to wonder any more. But he is still the sweetest man I can think of and I loved him dearly. He never understood why I loved his cuteness and his adorable scent so much...

But I would not go back to that since it hurt so much. I will keep the memories which are many.
 

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I'll do my very best to run fast if I ever see another 5w6 SP :)

I could not have imagined that someone can think and feel that way he does. It is so totally out of grasp for me.
I thought I could love him enough to make him open up and accept me into his life. I know it is not me as a person and he tried his best to love me but it is not in him. What fooled me is his total presence when we were physically together. From the first time I saw him I had a total crush on him. Something I have never had with anyone else. Those rare moments together made me go a long way until our next date. In between there was not much of him.

Now since that is all that he could give me I am happy that he clearly told me he cannot promise anything more. I don't have to wonder any more. But he is still the sweetest man I can think of and I loved him dearly. He never understood why I loved his cuteness and his adorable scent so much...

But I would not go back to that since it hurt so much. I will keep the memories which are many.
he does love you
as 5W6 S.P. we are unable to express it as a non INTJ 5W6 S.P.
we do love but alas that damn invisible force field refuses to let us express true emotions
we try, I've tried real hard in the past but nothing, nada, zilch
it is not that we don't care we do care but expression is impossible for us
the INTJ profile has us listed as gods
but we are far from that rosy picture painted by MBTI
tis a personal hell we must deal with:frustrating:
 

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he does love you
as 5W6 S.P. we are unable to express it as a non INTJ 5W6 S.P.
we do love but alas that damn invisible force field refuses to let us express true emotions
we try, I've tried real hard in the past but nothing, nada, zilch
it is not that we don't care we do care but expression is impossible for us
the INTJ profile has us listed as gods
but we are far from that rosy picture painted by MBTI
tis a personal hell we must deal with:frustrating:
I don't understand not being expressive at all. I can't relate to that. I don't think it's simply because I'm a woman and influenced by estrogen, but perhaps maleness can be an excuse... albeit, not an excuse that I would condone. It's not like saying "I'm a fish. I can't breathe oxygen because my gills don't work that way." Ya know? You're human; Every human being has feelings. They're there. It's not a life or death matter to tell them to people, I mean so long as there aren't any narcissists in your life who are at the ready to exploit them.

Have you never gotten drunk with friends/family and said, basically, "I love you guys so much!" (I'm saying this because my INTJ 5w6 brother totally did that.)? It's not difficult to lower inhibitions. MDMA, for example, makes it quite easy to do so in a healthy setting. The floodgates open. The feeling you get may as well be: Welcome To Life. Good luck resisting being expressive, then. Not that I recommend substance use on a regular basis- I really don't recommend that.

Heh. For all I know, this thought that I just put to text will terrify a person into never trying it.

That reminds me, there was a video that I meant to share elsewhere about 5s and 7s in a relationship... 5s who have been hurt seem to me to be once bitten, 10 times shy. A person has to figuratively lock pick the 5's heart. Not an impossible task. Rejection is a touchy point for a 5 to face... it's easier to be the one rejecting than to risk feeling rejected, but it leaves others hurt. The wounds of the 5 perpetuate to those who don't even know of the prior events. It's not a rational course of action, even though a 5 can dress it up and play it off as such -- it's much more instinctive than a "logical" choice. A 5 can feel things and express things just fine. The question is, do they really want to? If not, then why not?
 
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I don't understand not being expressive at all. I can't relate to that. I don't think it's simply because I'm a woman and influenced by estrogen, but perhaps maleness can be an excuse... albeit, not an excuse that I would condone. It's not like saying "I'm a fish. I can't breathe oxygen because my gills don't work that way." Ya know? You're human; Every human being has feelings. They're there. It's not a life or death matter to tell them to people, I mean so long as there aren't any narcissists in your life who are at the ready to exploit them.

Have you never gotten drunk with friends/family and said, basically, "I love you guys so much!" (I'm saying this because my INTJ 5w6 brother totally did that.)? It's not difficult to lower inhibitions. MDMA, for example, makes it quite easy to do so in a healthy setting. The floodgates open. The feeling you get may as well be: Welcome To Life. Good luck resisting being expressive, then. Not that I recommend substance use on a regular basis- I really don't recommend that.

INTJ as a whole has the biggest problem expressing emotion outside of frustration/anger
it's not that we don't feel them, we do internally but alas they are held prisoner in our minds
when my father had A.L.S. I put all my psychic energy into trying to express emotion to him
I couldn't even shed a tear even though I really wanted to just bust out in tears
that damn force field just refused
he did know I truly loved him
as INTJ 5W6 S.P. we are the least expressive of all humans
no matter how hard we try we fail at a cosmic level
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Talking about 5's emotions...
I got this massive message today, two months since we last communicated (except a quick merry xmas in between). He started asking how I am doing and explaining that he has to finish his studies this year and find a job and he has a very tight time frame. Then out of the blue... he said he is not sure if he should say it out loud but he misses me... I am speechless... I know this doesn't change anything, so why why why would he say that... I am sort of over him but still not completely... I had tears in my eyes when I saw that... but I cannot possibly wait a year and still no guarantee. I would not go back to dating every now and then. He would have to marry me :)
 

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Talking about 5's emotions...
I got this massive message today, two months since we last communicated (except a quick merry xmas in between). He started asking how I am doing and explaining that he has to finish his studies this year and find a job and he has a very tight time frame. Then out of the blue... he said he is not sure if he should say it out loud but he misses me... I am speechless... I know this doesn't change anything, so why why why would he say that... I am sort of over him but still not completely... I had tears in my eyes when I saw that... but I cannot possibly wait a year and still no guarantee. I would not go back to dating every now and then. He would have to marry me :)
I am a Five mssing another five too, but I cannot bring myself to say that I miss him, even though I miss him a great deal, to say that I miss him would take an amount of courage that I do not possess. Having said that, I would think that if you are not a five, it might be best to forget him: my experience with a Five is that we keep dragging each other with our pace, and too continue like this can be very frustrating for me even though I am myself a five.

I am in my early twenties and was (still is) attracted to another Five (an SP Five, I guess) in his late twenties/ early thirties, the attraction was mutual though we never said it and none of our co-workers suspected it. I don't know how we began it, probably together through mutual misunderstanding, him thinking that I liked him when I hadn't yet (at least not consciously), and therefore began to like me, and because he showed signs of liking me, I began to like him. I think things really got started when he rang to ask if I would have dinner with him, then he cut the line before I could answer. We pretended that nothing had happened when we met the next day.

Funny enough, I was drawn to him because he acted so hesitantly. I thought, "great, so he's not really that into me, he just wants someone to go out with, no-one is going to get hurt and there will be no bad feelings on either side when the relationship ends. With him, I can give romantic relationship a try without making permanent ties". So yes, because his attraction to me was so mild, he seemed ideal to me. Unexpectedly, I have become more emotionally committed than I had planned. I have read that fives can withdraw at a moment's notice, well, he withdraws without notice, and I too - without giving notice to him or to myself, so we kept passing each other in our separate cycles of withdrawal, and it feels as if we have broken up a hundred million times even though we have never even started in this awkward dance that had lasted for months.

When I quitted the job, I thought I could finally break free from this entanglement, but then I bumped into the enneagram - it was at this point that I came to understand why we had acted the way we acted, and that he probably liked me more than I had guessed, and I him too (though I am a little scared by the thought of that). I don't know if I have mistyped either or both of us, I display all the features of a Five, and some features of a six (which makes me the worst kind of a lover one could ever get), the way we interacted was certainly very Five-ish, but the fact that I think about him so much uncontrollably is perhaps not very Five of me: despite all reasons against being with him, he has almost constantly been on my mind. Memories of what had happened between us keep replaying themselves in my mind, although sometimes I think I enjoy the thought of him more than being with him, it is frustrating that I cannot get rid of his presence in my mind. Even when I can, he would creep into my mind again soon afterwards, sometimes I would even smile at the thought that he liked me more than he had shown himself to be, and I would wishfully(?) reinterpret his actions and slips of the tongue as signs of him subconsciously trying to protect himself from his feelings rather than taking me as a placeholder, even though I have no proof that my reinterpretation is any better than my original interpretations.

These thoughts and emotions are so private, so complicated, so exquisite, so everything and yet nothing, that I don't know with whom I can talk about these things. The anonymity of this forum does provide some venting space, and seeing other people's stories about my type somewhat ease my feelings a little too, so yea, sixhere, thanks for sharing your story. But like I said, if a Five's behaviour can be so frustrating even for another Five, I guess it must be even more painful for someone who is not a Five, so personally, I think you're wise in deciding to get over your ex-boyfriend, though more recent happenings may point you to another direction, only you have the information to decide, I shouldn't make too many comments on that. What I know is, I'll need to to get over my crush.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I am a Five mssing another five too, but I cannot bring myself to say that I miss him, even though I miss him a great deal, to say that I miss him would take an amount of courage that I do not possess. Having said that, I would think that if you are not a five, it might be best to forget him: my experience with a Five is that we keep dragging each other with our pace, and too continue like this can be very frustrating for me even though I am myself a five.
--- Oh my, does it take a lot of courage to say that. He has never ever said that to me before. And I am afraid of saying it back as if his sparce communication somehow meant that he is not serious when says that. But I admit, probably best would be to forget about him. But harder said than done... we had another incident for Valentine's Day. He sent me hearts and a nice picture of himself. Would a 5 do that if they had no feelings at all? This 9 does not seem to be able to resist him... ---

I have read that fives can withdraw at a moment's notice, well, he withdraws without notice, and I too - without giving notice to him or to myself, so we kept passing each other in our separate cycles of withdrawal, and it feels as if we have broken up a hundred million times even though we have never even started in this awkward dance that had lasted for months.
--- I feel like I have to get things said when he is in the mood so to speak, before he withdraws. He does that best hiding behind jokes and flirts. It has been soon 2 years of this up and down and we got nowhere. I am too afraid to ask if he has intentions of finally letting me into his life after his school is over this year. Or then he would give me an answer that does not really answer anything but only makes things even more difficult. I guess the best thing would be to move on. As right now I am unable to date anyone else, it only breaks my heart. Deep down I believe he loves me. I know I love him. But does he want a committed relationship ever? If I tell him I love him, will he close up even more? How can I know? ---

... despite all reasons against being with him, he has almost constantly been on my mind. Memories of what had happened between us keep replaying themselves in my mind, although sometimes I think I enjoy the thought of him more than being with him, it is frustrating that I cannot get rid of his presence in my mind. Even when I can, he would creep into my mind again soon afterwards, sometimes I would even smile at the thought that he liked me more than he had shown himself to be, and I would wishfully(?) reinterpret his actions...
--- this exactly!

The anonymity of this forum does provide some venting space, and seeing other people's stories about my type somewhat ease my feelings a little too, so yea, sixhere, thanks for sharing your story. But like I said, if a Five's behaviour can be so frustrating even for another Five, I guess it must be even more painful for someone who is not a Five, so personally, I think you're wise in deciding to get over your ex-boyfriend, though more recent happenings may point you to another direction, only you have the information to decide, I shouldn't make too many comments on that. What I know is, I'll need to to get over my crush.
--- Thanks for sharing your story. I may be looking at this through pink glasses but I don't seem to be ready to let him go. Right now after some of our text messaging is back I have started to miss him terribly again and it is wearing me out. Should I try to confront him or just wait and see when I hear from him again. We have both stated we miss each other but it will not change the fact that school is more important for him at the moment. He will not suggest we meet any time soon if ever... as a five. Call me nuts but I am a woman in love...
 

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I have started to miss him terribly again and it is wearing me out.
I did withdraw from him every so often and then tried to get him interested again when I was feeling "outgoing", so from a Five perspective, I can understand why your boyfriend is doing that. I didn't really feel guilty because my E5 colleague was doing exactly the same thing, so whatever frustration I had caused him to feel when I withdrew, he did the same to me - we were equal. (although thinking back, I was being a little reckless with his feelings, that he was being equally so shouldn't have been an excuse, maybe, I don't know)

But your personality is different! Does your E5 boyfriend know that? I feel like he's calling you whenever he feels like it, and withdraws whenever he feels like it, without considering what (or how much) that might mean to you emotionally.
 
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