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Heretic
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What constitutes lying in your mind?

What situations if any should lying be used?


To me lying is deliberately giving false information to someone with the intention to deceive them.

It is okay in my mind to lie:
If the other person have a destructive agenda towards you and lying prevents it.

Though I would rather tell the truth from a different perspective
or even better tell the individual that no information is forthcoming.

However those may in extreme situations not be open to you.

What do you think?
 

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What constitutes lying in your mind?
It is speaking/acting in a way contrary to known or easily observed truth. This can constitute anything from a well thought-out and formulated lie to not calling someone fat to when they are to lying to one's self by ignoring data.
What situations if any should lying be used?
I can't speak towards a general case... but personally, I lie to further my [evil] plans, period.

EDIT: Suppose I should qualify, if silence or omission is an option, I'll take it so long as it's not implicitly incriminating, as well as letting other people forge their own false conclusions when it's convenient.
 
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Heretic
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It fascinates me that people have such widely different opinions on what basic words in general use mean,
and then apply them according to very different values.

No wonder misunderstandings arise so easily.
 

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Lies are unnecessary, instead of providing false information, omission of data works just as well. In order to provide misdirection facts represented in vague manner and tactically selected order are greatly superior. As then they can not indicate dishonesty.
Pretty much my take on it as well.
 

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Don't ever lie, was never good at it, always got caught in the lie. So I tell partial truths, and if Im desperate, Ill slowly fill in around the partial truths. Its more effective this way, a true mastermind doesn't lie, just gets people to fill in the blanks for themselves.:cool:
 

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Just to answer the questions in a different way...

This is almost the obligatory alternative interpretation of what is asked as the word "lying" does carry multiple meanings:

Having a horizontal orientation also constitutes lying. An example would be lying in bed where I rest at night. It is quite useful to be in a position where I don't require any muscle control to maintain my orientation when I become unconscious. Generally this is also useful for getting rest on one's legs and arms too.

:wink: Yeah, this is being a bit of a smart alec but what else would you expect from a Mastermind after all?
 

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I don't feel the need to define lying, other than that on a side-note; between highly skilled individuals lying and the truth are almost the same thing anyways, because you can judge from what the desired response to what someone said is supposed to be regardless of it's truth content. And the truth is easy to figure out anyways.

But lying is always acceptable if it leads to an overall better outcome than the truth would have. People who say that their trust is based on the truth don't really trust the people they say they do, because if they really trusted them, it means they'd be willing to believe that IF someone lied to them, that they had a good reason for doing so.

However, I generally draw the line on lying about your own qualities. If you have to lie about yourself, it means you don't think you're good enough. Being truthful in this regard is good for you.

...I think I may have gotten slightly off topic.
 

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"Never lie, steal or cheat" - Dalai Lama

I do, however, give exceptions to people who make a little white lie on their failures to save face; they've got to dwell on their insecurities, though.

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson." - Dalai Lama
 

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As previously stated, I find it unnecessary as well.
 
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This is almost the obligatory alternative interpretation of what is asked as the word "lying" does carry multiple meanings:

Having a horizontal orientation also constitutes lying. An example would be lying in bed where I rest at night. It is quite useful to be in a position where I don't require any muscle control to maintain my orientation when I become unconscious. Generally this is also useful for getting rest on one's legs and arms too.

:wink: Yeah, this is being a bit of a smart alec but what else would you expect from a Mastermind after all?
You don't need to lie in space!
 

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I follow Kant's argument: I cannot will a law to lie, for in doing so I would be contradicting myself. This is irrational, and thus to be avoided. Furthermore, ‎we should act so that we treat humanity always as an end and never as a means only. In lying to someone (even for their own benefit as in the case of a white lie) you are using them as a means to your end. This is disrespectful of the human being, for it is suggestive that they lack the rational powers to handle the truth. And despite how some Thinkers I know sometimes argue Feelers lack rational powers, human beings are all (in the words of Aristotle) rational creatures.
 

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Heretic
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@jbking
Having a horizontal orientation also constitutes lying. An example would be lying in bed where I rest at night. It is quite useful to be in a position where I don't require any muscle control to maintain my orientation when I become unconscious. Generally this is also useful for getting rest on one's legs and arms too.
HaHa! Can't argue with that!

@Bunker Man
...I think I may have gotten slightly off topic.
I think you where spot on!
 

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I don't like lying at all and even if i want to I'm a terrible lier.
 
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I don't really like lying. It's not that I think I'm bad at it, I just don't do it often because I feel a bit guilty. If I were in a situation where it was absolutely necessary like saving my own or someone's life, I would probably try to manipulate you and not feel that bad about it. However, when I don't want to tell someone something, I omit it. For example: "how was the test?" "It was okay..." Technically, in this case, "okay" can mean subpar. And I did "okay" on the test. So, I guess that was still the truth? Wow.

I'm not saying I never lied before, I only said I don't feel great about it. It's just not a common occurrence for me to lie. The strange thing is I don't get caught in my lies, but there have been some people that thought I was lying when I was actually telling them the truth. Or when I accidentally told them some misinformation (that one time in 4th grade).
 

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I would lie to the Gestapo at my door proverbially speaking but I hate lying, liars and lies overall. It is disrespectful not only because it temporarily robs someone of the truth but also because it usually implies the victim does not deserve the truth. It absolutely rankles me when someone lies to me so why I should I do it to them? Moreover, even white lies tend to get uncovered eventually anyway. I also happen to think that those who tell lies to absolve themselves 'politely' are cowards; there is a courteous way to tell the truth too!
 

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I agree with you--lying is intentionally writing, typing, or uttering false information.

Lying is always acceptable unless there are negative repercussions to others for 1) lying, 2) getting caught lying.

If there are negative consequences for NOT lying (again, to others), it might be acceptable to lie if the consequences for lying are not as harsh as the consequences of the truth.


No explanations are needed, but I have time so I'll give some anyway:

If a stranger is making small talk with you on the bus and asks you your favorite color, and you lie and say it's red when it's really blue, there are no negative consequences for the other party. Thus this is an acceptable lie.

If a stranger thinks drinking bleach is a good idea to detox their liver, and they tell you this and you don't tell them otherwise, you did not lie (obviously).
 

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To me, lying to others can only be appropriate and acceptable if it would lead to a better result. Although, I consider lying to yourself to be absolutely meaningless.
 
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