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MOTM Nov 2010
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Discussion Starter #1
Have you ever had the problem of building other's up and then they turn into a**holes? I try to ground them as much as possible when this happens. But sometimes they do turn on me and can run off into the wild. I have no choice but to let them go with knowledge that they may be hunted in the woods with torches. Can't say I didn't try to warn them, though.


It can be a little bit frustrating.
 

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I worry a lot about this, but I'm not sure if it's ever happened. That said, I might just have a flexible definition of what constitutes being an a**hole. :bored:
 

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Long story short, totally. :sad:
 

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I have this bad habit of finding 'broken' people.
Like, I'll find someone who just needs the little extra bit of encouragement
Or if they just did this one thing differently, they'd be happier.

Except, I find, when I try to fix someone I turn into the glue.
And when I try to withdraw myself from the situation I completely shatter them leaving them worse than before.
:unsure:
 

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MOTM Nov 2010
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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I have this bad habit of finding 'broken' people.
Like, I'll find someone who just needs the little extra bit of encouragement
Or if they just did this one thing differently, they'd be happier.

Except, I find, when I try to fix someone I turn into the glue.
And when I try to withdraw myself from the situation I completely shatter them leaving them worse than before.
:unsure:
You'll probably get better with that. I think it took really good mentors for me who taught me how to be independent as opposed to becoming dependent on them. I'm very leery of co-dependent relationships. I don't like people to think I need them either.

But sometimes I will focus on an individuals positive qualities. They have negative ones, sure. But I believe if I focus on the good ones, they tend to grow and take over. This is also how I teach and I've raised my daughter. However, sometimes people can get out of control. I've said too many positive things about their attraction or successes and they will forget to do this with others. They actually will think their s**t doesn't stink. They become a little rude.

I've been in relationships over and over where I've built up a person too much and then they think they can treat me "less than".

I was just wondering how other ENFPs handle this.
 

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This happened to me a few month ago. I was in a very close friendship with an ESFP who started to take over my life, and like you said, started treat me "less than." Playing the supportive role is something that I don't mind, but when it's taken advantage of or for granted, things go downhill extremely fast.

I ditched reeeal quick. It was ironic at the end. When all was said and done, cutting the cord was harder for him than it was for me.
 

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The OP gave me one of those OMG moments.

I was just cursing the 7 skies because of a situation that can be described by these words exactly! :angry:

She even said that she won't introduce me to her friends because she is ashamed of who she was, and that I knew her when she was that aloof person long ago..





:mellow:
 

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The problem I had was, when someone was an a**hole, I would be nice and try to anticipate his needs and build him up so he would be happy, to try to keep him from being an a**hole again. But then, because he got an even more attentive woman for being an a**hole, he became a bigger a**hole. I would say, he became a monster a**hole. Did I make him an a**hole or bring out his a**holeness? I don't know.

I just learned the word, a**hole this past year and that's the first time i've used the word, a**hole eight or nine times in one post, but it still falls short.
 

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Yup, I have a story I MAY have done that. I was definately an a-hole.

T'was grade 11. Late night I was on the Vancouver Canuck's hockey team's chat board. Only two other people other than myself. We chat, then one guy gets into how he's the backup goalie for some juniour club and that he's being abused by the people he lives with. He's very convincing and the other guy in the conversation even leaves a message on that junior team's answering machine that such-and-such is being abused.

Then the guy laughs and says it was all a cruel joke.

So I spike him back, tell him my dad was really abusive (lie) and that he brought up my old horrors. I told him it was ok because it settled what I needed to do for a long time. I tell him I slit my wrists and am falling into blissful darkness I start typing gibberish on the chat board like I'm passing out. Meanwhile he tells me to give him an address, phone #, anything so he can send help.

I never went back to the chat room so maybe he thinks I really died. Hope no one's carrying that on their conscience.
 

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Totally elegant post, PR. I'm in the proce** of helping a self-admitted a**hole to a**imilate himself into a peer group with which he has had a rough history.

The early steps are working out quite well, but yes, I'm really afraid that I might be creating my own version of Frankenstein - an a**hole with social skills. Scary stuff.
 

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MOTM Nov 2010
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Discussion Starter #11
The problem I had was, when someone was an a**hole, I would be nice and try to anticipate his needs and build him up so he would be happy, to try to keep him from being an a**hole again. But then, because he got an even more attentive woman for being an a**hole, he became a bigger a**hole. I would say, he became a monster a**hole. Did I make him an a**le or bring out his a**holeness? I don't know.

I just learned the word, a**hole this past year and that's the first time i've used the word, a**hole eight or nine times in one post, but it still falls short.
Lol. I hope your post was as cathartic for you as it was for me. Hahaha.

Sorry folks, if the word applies it just applies.
 
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ENFP-A
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Lilsnowy swearing (even with asterisks) is hilarious. She's so sweet, positive, and unassuming otherwise. I always like a bit of spunk in a woman.
 

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Lilsnowy swearing (even with asterisks) is hilarious. She's so sweet, positive, and unassuming otherwise. I always like a bit of spunk in a woman.
Thank you so much, Moby!

And my kids think it's hilarious too. :')
 

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Have you ever had the problem of building other's up and then they turn into a**holes? I try to ground them as much as possible when this happens. But sometimes they do turn on me and can run off into the wild. I have no choice but to let them go with knowledge that they may be hunted in the woods with torches. Can't say I didn't try to warn them, though.

YouTube - Young Frankenstein - Quiet Dignity & Grace

It can be a little bit frustrating.
Insightful post.

I have an ESTP friend who is just like this. The more he gets built up the more he's gotta put other people down. When he fucks up, he has to make it look like other people are fucking up worse and he misdirects his anger.

If I get female attention, he's gotta put me down, cock block me (He literally can walk behind me and a girl while we're talking and continuously shout comments into our conversation, when our backs are to him) or brag about some female attention he's gotten. It really rubs me raw after a while... :angry:

It's like... you built them up, but then they need to prove that they're better than you to feel good about themselves. Why? I haven't the slightest clue. Perhaps something about the way you assisted their ego has made them feel inferior to you.
 

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I've helped to create and validate many a Frankenstein in my time. I suppose the worst example would be my ex girlfriend. She was, what I thought to be, a very damaged and vulnerable girl. She made up stories (never validated) of suffering abuse at the hands of her father, and she also claimed to be a victim of violent and sexual domestic violence at the hands of her previous ex. On subsequent inquiry, that boyfriend had doted on her. Anyway, to cut a long story short. From my end she got unconditional support and I was always keen to help out in her problems. However, she then started a game of horrifying emotional manipulation. After a long time, I found out that she was jealous of my life and upbringing (unsure why anyone would necessarily envy me this, but it takes all sorts eh?) and just wanted to cut me off and isolate from all my friends and leave me at her mercy. Alas, she hadn't banked on there being a bite behind all the ENFP compassion, fun and games. I probably roughed it out too long in that relationship, by about a month, but in the end, I conveyed to her that should she ever come into even vague contact with me, I would press charges against her... :confused:

The other monster I helped to create was a very good friend of mine, who started dating my friend, who is more my sister and mentor than a friend. He has/had serious self-esteem issues. Like a good friend I was at his side constantly and keen to pick him up. Somehow, he decided that he was God's gift, and pulled my best friend. Whereupon, with his new found confidence he would treat her like crap, totally self-centred and selfish. Quick to dump his problems at our doorstep, whilst he was off in Shangri-La, thinking that he was untouchable. Eventually, he cheated on my best friend and phoned me to tell me in a drunken haze that he was through with my best friend, because he was in love with some girl he'd just met. Anyway, I have no idea what happened to him, but I know the new girl didn't last on the scene. But whenever shit hits the fan, he'll still try and send me an email, hoping I can come up with solutions to his problems and if I can validate and motivate him, like I once used to.

I could go on, but the basic gist is that I will hate to see people feel down on themselves, so I just talk to them and put a new spin on things. I try and show them that they will have achieved so much if only they take their achievements on their own subjective merits, rather than comparing themselves to everyone else and then they suddenly think that they have no flaws or can use my help to make them feel better about themselves at their beck and call...

Wow... that was a long rant! Sorry!! :blushed:
 

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Insightful post.

I have an ESTP friend who is just like this. The more he gets built up the more he's gotta put other people down. When he fucks up, he has to make it look like other people are fucking up worse and he misdirects his anger.
Yup. My brother is ESTP, this was my life growing up with him as my main playmate on our hobby farm in the woods.
 

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VERY SORRY FOR SUCH A LONG REPLY!!

Looking back at the types of the two people who have cost me the most emotional turmoil for reasons such as these and were most likely monsters because of (or at least progressed by) me, their types were ESFP and ESTP.

ESFP: For the first person, my ex, he wasn't that bad of a guy when he took his medications (for bipolar). He was funny and gentlemanly and affectionate, but he STOPPED taking the medication, and everyone else could tell the difference, except for him, and being extremely stubborn as he was, refused to continue taking it, thus not controlling his attitude towards me. I had been extremely doting towards him the whole relationship, always complimenting him, and around the end, a third party made me realize he took this to his advantage and "hid behind me" for defense after stirring up drama with people he knew, among other things. He emotionally manipulated/abused me after I built him up, but I am sure that if he kept up with his medication, things would have been a lot different. Despite everything that happened, I have gotten over it, and am actually grateful, because if things didn't play out as they did, I wouldn't have met my current S.O. I hope he can be at peace with things (he was really disgruntled after I broke contact with him, despite th fact he deserved it at the time) and I hope he can find someone who meshes with his personality a bit more and be happy.

ESTP: Now this person is a lot different. She had a tough life growing up, but when I moved here a couple of years ago, she was one of the first few friends I made. I met her through a little cosplay party that her friends and her were doing at a park (she was an integral part of the anime community here), and I found out about the party online and explained I was new to the area and asked if I could tag along, and she gladly obliged. We hit it off, and for a while, me, her, and one of her good friends* were almost like the Three Musketeers, but after a year or so, it seemed like she started veering off to different groups to try to be more popular or something. Me and her "friend" became best friends, and are exactly that even today. Because of her (the ESTP's) situation, she moved in with boyfriends, the first few of which treated her kind of crappily, and other people and I encouraged her to get out of those situations, and she did, usually after much delay. (Sorry for the jumble, but this will all tie together) Meanwhile with the whole anime community situation, she was getting a lot of attention for joining a "maid café", and the attention was starting to get her head (tying in to the popularity thing). After that, she started paying less attention to her other friend and me, even though I was there for her through some very tough and personal times. (Including giving her a roof over her head a couple of nights and plenty of heartfelt advice, and showing up to a really important personal occasion that no one else, not even her family would show up for...) She finally got a nice boyfriend, but by then, she was ignoring us even more, focusing on really frivolous stuff that wouldn't get her anywhere in life. She must have been so used to having crappy boyfriends, that after a while of her boyfriend doting on her, she blew EXTREMELY slight misunderstandings (that even the most understanding of couples have) WAY out of proportion to make it sound like she was being mistreated, and cheated on him (and he let her CONTINUE living with him!!), and also physically attacked him... Not to mention, she had asked me to make a costume for her, and didn't cover her end of the deal because she didn't help with it when she said she would, and then said that it looked like [insert expletive here] behind my back. After that I gave her a two month silent treatment. In the meanwhile, she bailed to another state (the physical attack resulted in a warrant for her) and trying not to give up and trying to see her good side, I tried talking to her again, but a few old problems rose up. She only came to me and a couple other mature people for advice or to get her out of trouble, and when giving the suggestion, she would do the exact opposite and complain, or say "Oh, well that doesn't work because..." for EVERY suggestion. Or she would come to brag. I decided "screw it", and cut off connection with her permanently. Also, looking back at her symptoms, seems she most likely has a various number of personality disorders: Bipolar (confirmed), Narcisistic, Anti-social, Borderline, Histrionic (Not confirmed, but I'm pretty darn sure)... I haven't totally gotten over her abuse of my kindness yet, but I'm trying my best to be the "better person", as it were, and just move on with things. Although, I also have her to be thankful for meeting my S.O. too. I wasn't going to go to the meetup where I met him at, but she nudged me to. (On a separate note, I would figure that being poor would make someone humble and more appreciative of what they had, as it did to me... But she just kept getting worse and worse and more frivolous for some reason...)

Figures, the two people who led me to my S.O. are the two people whom I have completely cut off contact with (although I'm at peace with my ex, now).

*=If it matters, the "other friend", aka bestie is an ISFJ.
 
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