Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 109 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,301 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm curious to see how demonic Fi manifests in INTPs (and ISTPs). I haven't seen a whole lot written on the demonic (8th) function. How does it manifest differently from the inferior (4th) function?

I'm looking for some everyday concrete examples of how it manifests in you.

According to function theory, Fi should be my weakest function but I remember taking a functions test and Fi scored around 40 points with "excellent use". So maybe I'm just not understanding Fi properly or the Fi questions were just poorly written.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,866 Posts
I've just added more to the Archetype sticky on this.

The demon is the shadow of the inferior. As originally conceived, this archetype or complex was mainly about trauma. When the ego is really, really threatened, particularly by damaging emotional content, the complex is "constellated", in which it will tend to be experienced by way of the associated function. Eight-process theory believes that miniscule forms of this complex do appear in instances of lesser stress, though some do dispute that.

For IxTP's, it will involve personal or universal values, which are not usually seen as very relevant. It will play out very negatively

John Beebe, in "Understanding Consciousness through the theory of psychological types" quotes James Hillman (Lectures on Jung’s Typology, 1971) in associating "inferior Feeling" with "anger and rage and ambition and aggression as well as with greed and desire" and that it "turns upon itself, morbidly; we are envious, jealous, depressed, feeding our needs and their immediate gratification...", and then later suggests that this "might better be understood as a description of demonic introverted feeling in an introverted thinking type".

Since the full eight function model is not discussed by many people, and the inferior is usually considered "the shadow" to them, most INTP's will attribute that to their "inferior" Fe. However, while Fe is a less conscious function for them, because Feeling in general is inferior, it is even more suppressed in the dominant (internal) attitude (Where Thinking really belongs, and the tertiary is allowed), and falls into this really negative space in the psyche.

It is, however, on the same (right) brain hemisphere, so sometimes, this will come up when the dominant is unable to solve a problem (Still thinking on whether it is always still "demonic" in that instance. The functions do exist outside of the complexes, in which they would simply be undifferentiated, and not bear any archetypal influence).

I notice for me, when I feel my boundaries are being crossed (like I am being denied the rights others have, which then is threatening the "inferior" Fe anima that wants to be accepted), I then passionately want to bring the threatening position down. (This is what the Demon does. The Trickster and Demon have been compared to a club we try to "bash" others with). Hence, I passionately argue against people liek religiou sand political conservatives. (Even being a Christian myselfm, and seeing how it gets distorted when politicized. It comes off as very self righteous, and evil disguised as good).

When I first arrived in the type community, I had people pick up this Fi influence, so there was question of whether I was really an NFP, and at first, I could not explain why I would seem to have both Ti and Fi. Many people were claiming that NFP's often think they are NTP's or even want to be NTP's, or mistake Fi for Ti, and stuff like that. NTP's were often portrayed as so "detached" and unemotional. (This has some truth, but is often exaggerated a bit and overgeneralized). And there seemed to be little information on the whole theory, except for the snippets of Beebe different books, sites, or knowledgeable discussion members offer.

However, I eventually recognized that Fi generally revolves around negative issues, and is otherwise not my normal "heroic" perspective, which is internal logical stuff. (I was even criticized by those insisting I was NFP for being too "impersonal").:confused:
When it's strong like that, you do experience the positive side of it more as well (still likely having a remote connection to negative issues; you know, like the "silver lining"), so that also made it hard to figure out.
 

·
MOTM June 2010
Joined
·
2,507 Posts
To put in laymen terms Fi is about valuing and considering our own importance, beliefs and worth. At the 8th level we're slow to choose what is important to ourselves or misjudge the relative importance of things. I don't know too many ITPs who do not overspend or waste time which comes back to haunt them later. These are the results of being oblivious to Fi.
 

·
Iron Fist
Joined
·
3,684 Posts
I really love the thread title :laughing:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,301 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
To put in laymen terms Fi is about valuing and considering our own importance, beliefs and worth. At the 8th level we're slow to choose what is important to ourselves or misjudge the relative importance of things. I don't know too many ITPs who do not overspend or waste time which comes back to haunt them later. These are the results of being oblivious to Fi.

I think you're onto something here. I've made errors in life regarding importance. Probably one of the biggest errors I made was picking the wrong major in college. I picked my major, biochem for more logical reasons- something that I was good at, something where I could get a job, something that made a decent salary rather than picking something I was truly passionate about deep down. Eventually I went to library school to pursue a degree more in line with my passions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,866 Posts
Okay, so Se would be my demon function then? And when stressed out it would then dominate??
It's not about "dominating" so much; it would just erupt in a potentially destructive way.

To put in laymen terms Fi is about valuing and considering our own importance, beliefs and worth. At the 8th level we're slow to choose what is important to ourselves or misjudge the relative importance of things. I don't know too many ITPs who do not overspend or waste time which comes back to haunt them later. These are the results of being oblivious to Fi.
I think you're onto something here. I've made errors in life regarding importance. Probably one of the biggest errors I made was picking the wrong major in college. I picked my major, biochem for more logical reasons- something that I was good at, something where I could get a job, something that made a decent salary rather than picking something I was truly passionate about deep down. Eventually I went to library school to pursue a degree more in line with my passions.
The whole "evaluating importance" part of it I left out, though Berens/Nardi descriptions like those, while trying to simplify it for the layman, I believe run the possibility of overgeneralization (leading to Forer effects).

The notion of making errors in evaluating importance would stem from the functional perspective being so low in consciousness. What they are trying to convey, it seems, is that in the eighth position, the errors would have a "destructive" effect, to fit with the Demon archetype (Which they have renamed "Destructive"). But I think that is one small part of it, and it really cannot be used to explain behavior but so much, or force it into a necessary "destructive" role, as opposed to the others "deceiving", etc; wouldn't that fit just as well if you've made a mistake with something?) Anyone can make errors in considering importance.
So the Berens/Nardi sides of the concepts have always been the hardest to fit into the whole scheme, and it seems that they may have oversimplified them a bit.

Fi is primarily inner ethical congruence, and that may extend to "importance" as far as ethics or values-related causes and such, but I'm questioning it as extended even further to all "importance", "enthusiasm", etc. Those are natural products of an ego, advancing or defendign its goals, whichever functional perspective it prefers.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
I think you're onto something here. I've made errors in life regarding importance. Probably one of the biggest errors I made was picking the wrong major in college. I picked my major, biochem for more logical reasons- something that I was good at, something where I could get a job, something that made a decent salary rather than picking something I was truly passionate about deep down. Eventually I went to library school to pursue a degree more in line with my passions.
But how would you know that this is Fi and not just Ti miscalculating especially if you presented it with incomplete or bad data? That a person has certain functions as dominant or auxiliary doesn't mean that they are always functioning well to your best benefit.

Fi is about self-empathizing and making decisions and judgements based on this self-empathy emotion. What I have read about Ti is that it works by building up a system, a model of something in your mind, and then understanding where you are in relation to components and how this components work together, how this system works. In this system you yourself and other people are devalued, you and others simply become its components. This is quite contrary to Fi where you yourself are given a lot of value as a person and cannot be simply a component. So expression of demonic Fi imho would be something like basing your decisions on your sudden feeling of this value. From Greenlight Wiki: "As an ethical perspective, Ti leads you to do the best for the system regardless of your relationship to it." I have done this myself before. We were welcoming some new people and I asked an INTJ guy to do a welcoming presentation for them. He agreed then bailed out because he basically didn't feel like it. I started explaining the 'system' to him how these people have other choices and if we don't do the welcome weekend properly then they might go somewhere else. I basically told him that his personal feelings in how this system works are irrelevant. I was using my Ti to arrive at this conclusion but he was using his Fi and his Fi gave him this sense of self-value, a feeling of self-worth, he felt that he as person and his choice were more important. So I think an INTP who suddenly discovers his Fi will simply act out in this way.

I do wonder what demonic Si looks like however ... hmmm ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,866 Posts
But how would you know that this is Fi and not just Ti miscalculating especially if you presented it with incomplete or bad data? That a person has certain functions as dominant or auxiliary doesn't mean that they are always functioning well to your best benefit.

Fi is about self-empathizing and making decisions and judgements based on this self-empathy emotion. What I have read about Ti is that it works by building up a system, a model of something in your mind, and then understanding where you are in relation to components and how this components work together, how this system works. In this system you yourself and other people are devalued, you and others simply become its components. This is quite contrary to Fi where you yourself are given a lot of value as a person and cannot be simply a component. So expression of demonic Fi imho would be something like basing your decisions on your sudden feeling of this value. From Greenlight Wiki: "As an ethical perspective, Ti leads you to do the best for the system regardless of your relationship to it."
These functions are basically different sides of the same coins. so Fi can also be though of as "building [internal] systems", though they are ethical ones, instead of logical ones. Hence, they will focus more on the personal instead of impersonal "components".

So I believe you can look at it both ways (especially since Ti-Fi would be right brain alternatives of each other). The dominant perspective would still be Ti, so you could still look at it as a Ti miscalculation, but it may have in effect degraded into Fi, especially if there is some value issue in it.

I do wonder what demonic Si looks like however ... hmmm ...
Probably the past haunting you in some way.
From Berens:
They usually ignore the past and may find they lack a storehouse of data. They may get stuck in impressions of how things were and resist change. When really stressed, they may waste time reviewing the impact of the past.
(This is likely ruminating on pain and other regrets, but carrying t to a potentially destructive extent).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts
But how would you know that this is Fi and not just Ti miscalculating especially if you presented it with incomplete or bad data? That a person has certain functions as dominant or auxiliary doesn't mean that they are always functioning well to your best benefit.

Fi is about self-empathizing and making decisions and judgements based on this self-empathy emotion. What I have read about Ti is that it works by building up a system, a model of something in your mind, and then understanding where you are in relation to components and how this components work together, how this system works. In this system you yourself and other people are devalued, you and others simply become its components. This is quite contrary to Fi where you yourself are given a lot of value as a person and cannot be simply a component. So expression of demonic Fi imho would be something like basing your decisions on your sudden feeling of this value. From Greenlight Wiki: "As an ethical perspective, Ti leads you to do the best for the system regardless of your relationship to it." I have done this myself before. We were welcoming some new people and I asked an INTJ guy to do a welcoming presentation for them. He agreed then bailed out because he basically didn't feel like it. I started explaining the 'system' to him how these people have other choices and if we don't do the welcome weekend properly then they might go somewhere else. I basically told him that his personal feelings in how this system works are irrelevant. I was using my Ti to arrive at this conclusion but he was using his Fi and his Fi gave him this sense of self-value, a feeling of self-worth, he felt that he as person and his choice were more important. So I think an INTP who suddenly discovers his Fi will simply act out in this way.

I do wonder what demonic Si looks like however ... hmmm ...
What you're describing (Ti miscalculating) is a mistake. Shadow functions don't really cause you to make mistakes, they're actively negative (although the person using the function might write it off as a miscalculation). For instance, if you pay attention to an ETJ who has little awareness of their demon (Fe), they will make plans that are useful but that others won't want to follow. ITPs are the same way in that they make logical decisions that they don't like.

Beebe compares the demonic function to the Beast in Beauty and the Beast in that it is both evil and kind at the same time. It has a tendency to use kindness to be evil though. I actually had a lengthy email conversation with Beebe over this video (Emo Phillips's best known joke):

Emo Philips

Beebe believes that this is actually making light of the nation's shadow (the US being an ESTJ nation). And you can see that this is laden with demonic Fe. For instance, Emo tries to convince the man not to jump off the bridge... but only so he can put film in his camera. Plus, he says several cruel things that are disguised as kind things (bearing in mind that the man has the head of a horse): "Why the long face?", "Don't worry about it, Ed.", and "You think you're the only one saddled with problems?"

I haven't got a clue what demonic Si would look like, but I'd imagine it would involve capturing cruel images or something along those lines. Perhaps whoever took all those Abu Ghraib pictures used demonic Si?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
What you're describing (Ti miscalculating) is a mistake. Shadow functions don't really cause you to make mistakes, they're actively negative (although the person using the function might write it off as a miscalculation).
I was not speaking about Ti as a shadow function. I was speaking of it as a dominant introverted juding function that is capable of making a mistake in its judgement.

For instance, if you pay attention to an ETJ who has little awareness of their demon (Fe), they will make plans that are useful but that others won't want to follow. ITPs are the same way in that they make logical decisions that they don't like.

I haven't got a clue what demonic Si would look like, but I'd imagine it would involve capturing cruel images or something along those lines. Perhaps whoever took all those Abu Ghraib pictures used demonic Si?
Well making a parallel from your ETJ story demonic Si in a J-type would be making a plan while forgetting the specifics of what exactly worked in past and thus perhaps substituting and using incorrect tools to get the job done. Or may be drawing similarities where this cannot be applied just because you forgot to account for the specific details of what happened in past.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
i score high on Fi also. but im kinda doubting that it actually is Fi that im using. i feel it its more like Fi simulation performed by Fe + Ti.

Fi uses empathetic style of thinking, while Fe Ti mind set is abstract thinking.

empathetic style of thinking(when extraverted) is unconscious perception of what the person is feeling and creating simulation of the object of that is emphasized and placing this simulation onto himself(Fi)(this is also done unconsciously), therefore feeling as what the other is feeling. or actually feeling the simulation that is created unconsciously and feeling it consciously.
abstract thinking style(when extraverted) works by feeling what the the person is feeling(Fe) and trying to figure out reasons for these feelings consciously(Ti).

For intp this Ti is highly conscious action, while Fe is more unconscious, therefore the feeling of the other person is not so strong, but reasoning for these feelings is.

abstract style of thinking can give reasons for why the other person is feeling what he is, because the reasoning works consciously. but with empathetic style of thinking the reasoning process works unconsciously, so the Fi user just knows this is the answer, and most likely wont be able to give reasons for why this is the right answer(ofc if its obvious, the Fi user is able to use his weak Ti to figure it out, or if he has experienced it before and knows the answer).

this kind of reasoning of the feelings might look really much like Fi, but its not because the simulation of what the person is feeling is created consciously(its more like Fi simulation), not unconsciously like with real Fi. Intp is able to put this fake Fi simulation onto himself and therefore feeling empathy that also looks alot like Fi.

i dont really believe in this shadow function theory, i believe that these shadow functions are just simulations of functions that the type doesent normally use. Like Ne + Ti might look alot like Te, but the mechanism of action are totally different, like in this Fi simulation.

everything in mbti etc are just theories, because they are lacking evidence and they are formed just by logical deduction of human psyche and human psyche is so massive and complex that its impossible to get accurate results of it just with deduction. therefore they should be treated like theories, instead strict truths.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,866 Posts
Again, the whole "simulation" thing is understood best when realizing that Jung conceived of just four funcions, S, N, T, F, and the two orientations, e and i.
So you do not even have to construct anything like Fe+Ti≈Fi or Ne+Ti≈Te. (Wouldn't those unions produce Te or Ni, respectively, also?)
Our internally standardized judgment is usually Thinking, but sometimes, when engaging feeling, while that usually relies on external standards, it may cross the internal area as well in the process.

The Mental Muscles diagrams shows how this works (left=inner; right=outer).

Myers Briggs - the Dynamic Model


So the more definite manifestations of a particular function-attitude would be more associated with the archetypes (such as "demon").
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,866 Posts
So I had been trying to think of more examples of demonic Fi. (even before this thread was resurrected).

I'd say another example for me is just a strong negative reaction to certain emotional stuff, including music. Some things can be so beautiful (especially like music that has a touch of sadness to the sound), that it touches you in a powerful, internal, emotional way. (My wife and I were recently discussing "Time in a Bottle" and other such songs).
Yet it tends to give me a very funny feeling, of vulnerability in a dangerous world. Here, it shadows the anima, which is about vulnerability and inferiority. Now, these rejected feelings are being brought in from the external realm they were banished to, right into the internal domain we wanted to keep them out of. So we see why this function and its archetype are so negative.

Now, with the whole "NT/Ti is always detached" sentiment, I wondered whether I should ever have such strong feeling and be so moved by such things to begin with. Yet more recently, I finally learned that from Jung's original concept, the whole basis of a cognitive preference is the suppression of what is unpreferred. It's not that you don't have feelings. It's just that you suppress them, and when they do come up, they rub you in a very funny or strange way.

You trust logic, and feel vulnerable with feeling. So that perfectly described what I experienced. Fi wants to find harmony in the universe, but Ti warns that the universe is a dangerous place for us sensitive creatures. So I would much rather try to understand the way things work, to be able to better know how to survive in the world, than find solace in "values", that it appears the cold universe only violates and tramples on anyway.
So the feelings come off as very dissonant (between wanting to go with the emotion and open up; and wanting to run away fast), and that is connected to a form of suppression.

Being in a lot of negative emotional situations, where one turns to these emotional things when there is nowhere else to turn, opens you up to them, and then the demon becomes a sort of "angel" at times. The more you own this, the more you can engage the functional perspective.

I imagine a true Fi preferring type, (and even tertiary Fi in a mature person as well), would more readily embrace those feelings. They trust that the cold world can be made a better place by spreading universal values, which the Ti type likely sees as futile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
375 Posts
There are some interesting insights and perspectives in this thread. Thank you Eric B, for strengthening my understanding of the "demonic" function, which I had been trying to understand better lately.

Perhaps, if I may, I'll add my INFP perspective on this.

With my Fi as dominant hero, my Te is anima, and my Ti is the hellion, if I may call it that instead (because I prefer the word, an Fi thing). In general, Thinking functions are stressful to me, but I will explain how the Ti demonstrates itself as the hellion rather than Te.

Fi/Te Relationship: Te is stressful because it often conflicts with the desires of Fi. Fi would like to stay inside and emotionally cogitate in its Fi/Ne partnership. Si supplements this partnership by triggering and suggesting relevant information or memories as I perceive the world, but Te would seem to directly threaten Fi because it requires external action in a non-emotional dimension, therefore it chafes the desires of Fi to marinate internally and stay consciously connected to its ideals.However, even though this threat may be perceived, there is a conscious or unconscious understanding that Te is the gateway to exactly what Fi wants...fruitive ideals, external realization of dreams.

Thus, a slow-developing and sometimes turbulent partnership grows with Te. At first, Te is utilized only as long as Fi is immediately gratified, such as in creative outlets, but if Fi gratification wanes, Te is blunted, and Fi may seek escape, and plans are left unfinished. Hopefully, in time, trust of Te will lead to Fi patience, and the fruits of such a partnership can be tasted and relished.

Fi/Ti Relationship:
As for Ti, it poses an even greater threat than Te. Because Fi is composed of internal desires, values, and ideals that are formed through personal preference, Ti may be seen as a hellion that has come to infiltrate Fi and undermine it, exposing the irrationality of its views with its logical process, devaluing its hopes, stealing its dreams. Thus, when Fi ideals are activated, Ti may be highly guarded against, being seen as a saboteur to happiness. For a simplistic analogy, it would be like a diabetic who goes to a bakery with some friends. They have been talking about how delicious the cinnamon rolls are there, and everyone gets one, but the diabetic realizes that she forgot to bring an insulin shot, and so if she ate a roll now, she might experience dangerous blood sugar levels (Ti mortar shell explodes in her brain directly over Fi). This logical reality of her bodily functioning has seemingly undermined her desire, stealing her happiness. Such an analogy gives a simple illustration, but in larger examples, such as long-constructed dreams, world views, spirituality, etc, Ti may threaten to take down entire frameworks with its logical reality.

------------------------

The truth is, for an INFP, Ti is not a hellion/demon; it is only perceived as such. If the INFP builds castles in the sky, and then Ti points out that castles are subject to gravity, the castles may start plummeting toward terra firma, but the truth is, if Ti can so easily undo Fi ideals, then the individual should understand that Ti is but a helpful instrument in refining some of the quixotic dreams of Fi, making it more possible for the individual to realize those dreams. If I am dreaming of a $5000 European vacation, yet financial analysis would show I can only afford $2000, otherwise I'd be in debt, even though Ti may then be received as something of a churlish imp, I ought to be thankful for its use.

---------------

INTP Relationship of Ti, Fe, and Fi: I imagine that the principles involved in what I have shared apply to the INTP with their Ti, Fe, and Fi. Fe also threatens the preference and activities of Te through externalization in a non-logical mode, yet Fe will ultimately enable the activity of Ti to achieve societal fruition and usefulness. Fi may seem to be this emotionalized, senseless entity that threatens to come in and distract from the importance of Ti and undo its logical supremacy. Why should non-logical views and emotions ever take precedence over the logical reality of things? To answer this question as an INFP, I would assert that to allow Fi to partnership in an INTP's Ti affairs will better enable the fulfillment and health of the INTP. Taking care of one's own personal needs and desires in a less analytical way and letting them develop can bolster the health of the individual and give greater recognition to how Ti can be applied, among other reasons.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
when you feel like "Fi" is the right function to use in some situation. do you decide to do so based on logic(or past experiences with similar situations) or do you go just by your gut feelings to use it in this particular situation(and that feeling of right or wrong cannot be triggered by external factors)?

also, dont confuse Fi to processing feelings, its a decision function that you use to evaluate how to act in certain situation. also morals are deep rooted(at least in healthy individuals) on Ti users, so you shouldnt mix those up with Fi values, because morals can be created without using Fi. i think best way to distinguish Fi values from Ti moral is to look for example an animal that is suffering. killing is against Fi values(if you arent an unhealthy person), but Fi user can(at least some times :laughing:) kill an animal that is suffering, but the killing itself will make him feel bad, even tho he helped the animal to get out of suffering. Illogical, i know, but thats the way Fi rolls. How ever Ti user who uses moral view on it, wont feel bad(in most cases, even hes not unhealthy) about killing the animal, because it was morally right thing to do, he might even feel good about it. This Ti moral vs Fi value thing might confuse people to think that they are using Fi when they are actually seeking Ti solution about feeling matters, trying to understand their low Fe better or just when actually using their Fe.

@Matchbook

are you sure that what you call Ti in infp is not actually Fi Te? i mean it might be just that your Fi decides to go against itself based on strong Te suggestion. This kind of function going against itself would cause the type of feelings you say that you get when using Ti. Naturally it would be logical process(due to Te base) and even tho the decision to take the logical action would come from Ji function, it could just as well come from Fi, because the suggestion from Te would be so strong that even the normally illogical Fi could not deny that this is the right thing to do.

i have personally experienced a situation where im forced to use my "Fi" and now that i think about it, im 99% sure that it actually was just my Ti Fe and Fe forcing my Ti to go against itself and thats why it felt so hard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
773 Posts
Again, the whole "simulation" thing is understood best when realizing that Jung conceived of just four funcions, S, N, T, F, and the two orientations, e and i.
So you do not even have to construct anything like Fe+Ti≈Fi or Ne+Ti≈Te. (Wouldn't those unions produce Te or Ni, respectively, also?)
Our internally standardized judgment is usually Thinking, but sometimes, when engaging feeling, while that usually relies on external standards, it may cross the internal area as well in the process.

The Mental Muscles diagrams shows how this works (left=inner; right=outer).

Myers Briggs - the Dynamic Model


So the more definite manifestations of a particular function-attitude would be more associated with the archetypes (such as "demon").
i see a problem on this, but i think its partially right. when for example this feeling side(that is extraverted in intp) goes through internal areas. why do you think that the internal area is Fi instead of Ti looking like an Fi due to Fe origin of the decision?

the problem with mbti is that it is originated from the work of jung, but it seems to be lacking the thought process that led to these psychological types and functions. its like mbti is continued deduction of the "facts" that jung discovered, missing the essentials that led to these functions and types.

i try to explain better:

jung came to the conclusion of the functions and types due to analysis of his patients, looking deep into the human psyche, by reviewing and criticizing typology made in the past and making logical deduction of them.

now mbti(and other forms of typology that are based on jungs work) takes these functions and types and disregards the reasons behind them(what led to these types and functions) and draws new conclusions about them. because mbti(and other forms of typology that are based on jungs work) is lacking the deduction used from the same source i dont think its that good of an idea to continue making conclusions about psychological types. because it might be accurate on the surface(like with the whole type using four functions), but when you go deeper(into these shadow functions) its bound to fail if you dont do the deduction using the same source that was originally used to produce these functions and types.
these shadow functions are created due to this kind of faulty deduction, therefore im skeptical about them and because i have an explanation that seems to work and that can make these shadow functions untrue, im skeptical about them to the point that i think they are most likely incorrect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,301 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
So I had been trying to think of more examples of demonic Fi. (even before this thread was resurrected).

I'd say another example for me is just a strong negative reaction to certain emotional stuff, including music. Some things can be so beautiful (especially like music that has a touch of sadness to the sound), that it touches you in a powerful, internal, emotional way. (My wife and I were recently discussing "Time in a Bottle" and other such songs).
Yet it tends to give me a very funny feeling, of vulnerability in a dangerous world. Here, it shadows the anima, which is about vulnerability and inferiority. Now, these rejected feelings are being brought in from the external realm they were banished to, right into the internal domain we wanted to keep them out of. So we see why this function and its archetype are so negative.

Now, with the whole "NT/Ti is always detached" sentiment, I wondered whether I should ever have such strong feeling and be so moved by such things to begin with. Yet more recently, I finally learned that from Jung's original concept, the whole basis of a cognitive preference is the suppression of what is unpreferred. It's not that you don't have feelings. It's just that you suppress them, and when they do come up, they rub you in a very funny or strange way.

You trust logic, and feel vulnerable with feeling. So that perfectly described what I experienced. Fi wants to find harmony in the universe, but Ti warns that the universe is a dangerous place for us sensitive creatures. So I would much rather try to understand the way things work, to be able to better know how to survive in the world, than find solace in "values", that it appears the cold universe only violates and tramples on anyway.
So the feelings come off as very dissonant (between wanting to go with the emotion and open up; and wanting to run away fast), and that is connected to a form of suppression.

Being in a lot of negative emotional situations, where one turns to these emotional things when there is nowhere else to turn, opens you up to them, and then the demon becomes a sort of "angel" at times. The more you own this, the more you can engage the functional perspective.

I imagine a true Fi preferring type, (and even tertiary Fi in a mature person as well), would more readily embrace those feelings. They trust that the cold world can be made a better place by spreading universal values, which the Ti type likely sees as futile.

This was the exactly the sort of explanation I was looking for. I can really relate to what you said about demonic Fi in the INTP.
 
1 - 20 of 109 Posts
Top