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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think ENFPs can be naive and buy into a persona because they want to believe people are good. I'm wondering if you've been burned by this tendency and how that's changed your perception of people.

What are you experiences with manipulators?

Has it made you more cautious?

Has it made you jaded?

How would you handle it now?
 

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I have a tendency to want to see what I want to see and fear what I don't want to see for the reality I may face that sometimes people really do not have great intentions. I tend to want to see positive aspects in people, because of the human potential that I think everyone has and may lack due to pretty harsh environmental upbringing.

I can see the manipulation from miles away and stop it right then and there for some people. For others, it's like my mind wants to deny what's happening. I dislike and at most feel guilty to think that negatively about someone, and then start to think of my own self-projections and my own flaws that I discount the very obvious truth in front of me.

Nowadays, I think facing the reality of manipulative intentions/behaviors jades parts of my own perception. I think it's more balanced now. I see how not everyone is 'out there for themselves.' Much of the time, it's social conditioning people learn to pick up from their socio-political environment based on scarcity anyway. Sadly. Despite that, I still believe in the kindness of people. I think that's where truth lies. People manipulate/hurt others when they've learned it's okay to hurt when they're hurt themselves. I think people's true core of whom they are reflects a "we" mentality instead of "me." It's unfortunate when people get caught up in situations that get them so deluded to the point where they need to manipulate/harm others due to their own ignorance/short-sightedness that sway them away from the source of their own true happiness.
 

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I think there would be the potential to be sucked into a manipulator pretty darn easy given my personality...

Were it not for my intense self-awareness. I really think that fact, of seeing myself in the third-person and being able to take a "step back" from a situation, lets me see past most manipulation. The times I am manipulated, I feel tragically aware of it. The friend who's an "emotional hypochondriac" telling you the same little problems time and time again on the same subject because you'll give them the attention others won't. Chasing the wrong girl when you know she's wrong. Doing too much at work because they know they can get away dumping those extra responsibilities on you (and you care too much to pass the buck to another exasperated co-worker).

Thankfully, those are generally rare so far in my life, though they happen.
 

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I think ENFPs can be naive and buy into a persona because they want to believe people are good. I'm wondering if you've been burned by this tendency and how that's changed your perception of people.
What are you experiences with manipulators?
Has it made you more cautious?
Has it made you jaded?
How would you handle it now?
nope. if someone tries to manipulate me, I quickly sniff it out and make an example of them
 

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Nowadays, I think facing the reality of manipulative intentions/behaviors jades parts of my own perception. I think it's more balanced now. I see how not everyone is 'out there for themselves.' Much of the time, it's social conditioning people learn to pick up from their socio-political environment based on scarcity anyway. Sadly. Despite that, I still believe in the kindness of people. I think that's where truth lies. People manipulate/hurt others when they've learned it's okay to hurt when they're hurt themselves. I think people's true core of whom they are reflects a "we" mentality instead of "me." It's unfortunate when people get caught up in situations that get them so deluded to the point where they need to manipulate/harm others due to their own ignorance/short-sightedness that sway them away from the source of their own true happiness.
*applause*. yes yes yes. agree very much! you should honestly pity people like that, very few people are black to their core and usually it's some defense mechanism involved, or social conditioning which suggests to them that it is "ok" to do so. if they hadn't undergone those negative experiences you have to consider that a very different person might be interacting with you instead, and that is a sad story.
 

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I think ENFPs can be naive and buy into a persona because they want to believe people are good. I'm wondering if you've been burned by this tendency and how that's changed your perception of people.

What are you experiences with manipulators?

Good manipulators are really good at manipulating. It doesn't hurt me that when they're manipulating, but they succeed and if I realize that, then that makes me adore them. Manipulation is like an art to me, the more manipulators I meet, the better I learn manipulation. Back then, problems use to arise when I use to feel for them. It made me feel bad when I realized that they were manipulating me, but now I generally sense it.

Has it made you more cautious?
Yes. It has, that is not to bring feelings in every matter.

Has it made you jaded?
No. It made me feel bad, but it had no effect more than that. In fact, I learnt a lot about manipulation from it.

How would you handle it now?
If I understand that the person is trying to manipulate me, then I don't let them know that I know that they're trying to manipulate me. I generally behave like an innocent lamb, knowing nothing, and I slowly divert that person into his own trap.And it really works well with the over confident shits.
 

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Experience with manipulators
I've had a fair deal of exposure to manipulators, but I'd like to think I've learned the warning signs of manipulation over time. I know that we manipulate people every day, so I tend to analyse actions and effects, if I detect a toxic agenda behind the actions, it's time to assess my next moves. So for example, back at the tender age of 19, my then gf tried to turn me against my tight circle of female friends and simultaneously get them to hate me. The ultimate goal was to leave me friendless bar her and two closely selected male friends lol. She was pretty bad at it though, nothing sat right with me, or my friends. We both broke our vows of confidence to her, talked and turfed her out on her ass (metaphorically).

Caution?
I like to think of myself as relatively cautious from the outset. But it has taught me to not trust too quickly. Experience, assess and evaluate is a mantra of mine. In Romeo & Juliet, I personally do not believe they were "star-cross'd", rather they died because Romeo was hotheaded and threw caution to the wind ("away to heaven faithful lenity, fire ey'd fury be mine conduct now"). I suppose it's made me a little more en garde.

Jaded?
I can get a little jaded with people in general, the downside to working in my field is that you become very cynical and jaded about people and their motivations. However, even though I try and take each new circumstance as precisely that, a new circumstance and I hope for the best. The benefits of having a slightly jaded worldview is that you're prepared for the worst already anyway ;).

Handling Manipulators Now?
Sit back, grab some popcorn and enjoy the show. Be compliant, but with mule like slowness "I don't understand, you're saying I should..." etc etc. Then as soberly and with as much gravitas as I can summon deliver the reply "Alright, so here's what we'll do. I won't do that, but we'll say that I did? How's that?" or "Upon reflection, it's come to my attention that I won't be doing that." And off I go, after of course, laughing heartily at their expense (I'm nice like that).
 

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What are you experiences with manipulators?

Has it made you more cautious?

Has it made you jaded?

How would you handle it now?
My mother is a very controlling/manipulative person, I was also in a relationship with a very emotionally abusive/manipulative man for a few years during my early 20s.

I think being in an emotionally abusive relationship lead me to become paranoid of people, in particular, very distrustful of men. I'm only really now just beginning to get over the 'emotional' damage caused by this experience. The relationship with my mother has made me very cautious, yes. I can generally spot when someone is playing mind games with me fairly easily now, through years of experience growing up in a relationship that was full of manipulation.

I became very apathetic after encounters with a few emotionally manipulative men. I went through a phase of wanting nothing to do with anyone, romantically or sexually. I became very cynical and distrusting of most people.

I would like to think my experiences have taught me valuable lessons. I think I am in a much better position to deal with emotionally controlling/agressive and passive-agressive behaviours from having deal with these kinds of individuals.

These days, as soon as I sense danger....I stay well clear.

Let me just add though; no matter how 'good' we believe we are at reading people- there are still some very dangerous people out there who are VERY good at manipulating anyone. Nobody is invincible.
 

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"What are you experiences with manipulators?"

Sadly I fell right into the trap you're talking about. I tend to assume folk are like us and good intentioned. And generally up until I was 29 I found that if you were positive about people that they responded in kind. I think its probably safe to say that my world had been quite "fluffy" until this point.

I then was unfortunate enough to date a guy who worked in the military in security and intelligence, to begin with it seemed he was great, then cracks began to show, a couple of months in when I called him on some things which just weren't adding up, he tried to divert me from the case in point by saying

"if you think that's something, I might have a 4 year old daughter"

By this point we'd been on holiday together, he'd met my folks and Id been a faithful patient girlfriend whilst he was on a tour in Afghanistan. There was no "might" about it, he'd kept her hidden from me. But this was not the only time he'd lied to me, I could understand having a child is a big thing, but this was just tip of iceberg.

My naivety and complete lack of comprehension of why someone would lie like this led me to be blind to the fact that I was being manipulated and that this person really didn't deserve the respect and love he had been given. I truly went into a state of shock trying to process why someone would act like he did. My world now had to contend with the existence of monsters. ENFPs have so much empathy and good intentions I think we are almost unable to comprehend what a psychopath is, (I dont think he was a psycho, extreme avoidant and borderline personality more likely).

"Has it made you more cautious?"

Looking back the worst of it was that my instincts had been wrong about him, and they are what had guided me through life to date. My instincts had told me that he was "the one" for me. Feeling like I could no longer trust my instincts left me like a boat without a rudder & for a year I wandered through life in a zombified state, because everytime I allowed myself to feel, the feeling that "he was the one" came back. It still confuses me that I could have cared so much for someone so much when he was so underserving.

"Has it made you jaded?"

In typical ENFP style I had to reach an understanding of the whole thing before I could put it to rest. Understanding for us really is key, I was dogged in my obsessionally trying to understand and figure it out because I needed to understand and therefore let go so badly. It's taken a new relationship Ive been in to help me understand some of what was going on with him. He was damaged before going into a relationship with me, now the damage he did to me has entered this relationship (possibly irreparably). This sounds as if I am angry about it but I'm genuinely not. There's a French expression

"tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner" - Essentially to understand is to forgive.

I know some people feel you shouldn't forgive a "wrong-doer" but in my opinion life is too short to be angry and if you can "forgive from a safe distance away" then your life will move forward much smoother.

"How would you handle it now?"

I think I'm more aware of "baddies" now, less naive, although I probably still appear that way to people who don't know me. I still give people a chance but not blindly anymore & I'm able to walk away knowing ive done all can.

Through understanding and forgiving ive been able to return to my previous world view which is that - most people if they have enough resources (love, money, support etc) don't want to harm. Selfishness normally stems from some insecurity of not having enough (looks, money, love) and I suppose I feel such folk are too weak to be able to open up and give, when they don't feel they have enough.

Key point is that whilst this helps me to understand it doesn't mean you should help them though, in fact sometimes it makes it worse.

And that thought helps my poor heart to mitigate the existence of manipulators in the world. Ultimately they have to live with their actions.

Sorry for the long reply !
 

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Looking back the worst of it was that my instincts had been wrong about him, and they are what had guided me through life to date. My instincts had told me that he was "the one" for me. Feeling like I could no longer trust my instincts left me like a boat without a rudder & for a year I wandered through life in a zombified state, because everytime I allowed myself to feel, the feeling that "he was the one" came back. It still confuses me that I could have cared so much for someone so much when he was so underserving.
I completely relate to this, 100%

I'm still in the process of slowly piecing my self-confidence and trust in my own insticts back together.
 

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What are your experiences with manipulators? I tend to see manipulators very easily. I also put together behaviors like a puzzle. My Husband pointed out that he thinks I learned how to spot manipulative people from experience with a group of mean girls I briefly dealt with in HS. There could be something to that. I was unexpectedly burned by those girls to the max. I wouldn't have fallen for any of it if it happened today. As a matter of fact, I learned rather quickly and once I was able to spot when they were manipulating me, I put an end to it and they moved on to other girls to pick on. There are a few other people in my life who are very close to me and constantly tried to manipulate me; I learned from those experiences as well.

Has it made you more cautious? Extremely.

Has it made you jaded? No or yes, depending on how you look at it. Basically, I don't expect everyone to be honest and trustworthy with me the way I used to. However, I consider people good until they prove otherwise, if that makes sense. I know it's sort of contradictory.

How would you handle it now? I let them know I see them once they've without a doubt attempted to manipulate me. However, I won't participate in big wars with them. Gosh it sounds like HS, but seriously, some people never grow out of that crap. Unfortunately, it's a reality that must be recognized.

Eta: I answered these questions with unhealthy manipulators in mind.
 

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What are you experiences with manipulators?

Everybody is a manipulator. Sometimes we do it without meaning to. And sometimes we do it on purpose. Either way, some people tend to manipulate others a lot. The so called "manipulators". Truth be told, I am very open and honest to people, and while I seem like quite the pushover, I have a knack realizing why somebody is doing something. I think of all possibilities and I tread carefully, covering all the options. I turn the tables and set borderlines. Yes, I have been betrayed before. A bit manipulated here and there. It did hurt, too. No laughing matter.

Has it made you more cautious?

Not particularly. ^^' I've always actually been on the cautious side.

Has it made you jaded?

Nope. And I hope it never does.

How would you handle it now?

Following my nose and dancing lightly.
 

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I think there would be the potential to be sucked into a manipulator pretty darn easy given my personality...

Were it not for my intense self-awareness. I really think that fact, of seeing myself in the third-person and being able to take a "step back" from a situation, lets me see past most manipulation. The times I am manipulated, I feel tragically aware of it. The friend who's an "emotional hypochondriac" telling you the same little problems time and time again on the same subject because you'll give them the attention others won't. Chasing the wrong girl when you know she's wrong. Doing too much at work because they know they can get away dumping those extra responsibilities on you (and you care too much to pass the buck to another exasperated co-worker).

Thankfully, those are generally rare so far in my life, though they happen.
I used to have some of these things happen to me, but I learned how to put an end to it. For me, I started by saying no when I wanted to say no. I gave answers that were truthful "I can't because I have a lot of stuff to do Saturday and I don't want to overextend myself". I think some people were initially surprised, and might have taken it a bit personally, but that's on them.
 

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If I understand that the person is trying to manipulate me, then I don't let them know that I know that they're trying to manipulate me. I generally behave like an innocent lamb, knowing nothing, and I slowly divert that person into his own trap.And it really works well with the over confident shits.
Yes, I do that too. I love playing innocent and naive as counter-manipulation. Also, our Ne-Fi bullshit detector can make us skilled manipulators in our own right. On the one hand, you can read when someone's behavior doesn't match with their emotions. On the other hand, you can notice the tiniest bit of uncertainty in a person and influence their decision by playing to whichever side you prefer.

I've talked myself out of five speeding tickets, two potential arrests, several fights, got change back from a mugger, saved money on everything from cars to computers to mattresses, and smoothed over countless "misunderstandings". Out of respect, I won't mention how this has impacted my interactions with the opposite sex. It's all about being able to read people and knowing how to play to your audience.

I should note that I believe that this talent should be used responsibly and with the utmost respect for the rights of others.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Let me just add though; no matter how 'good' we believe we are at reading people- there are still some very dangerous people out there who are VERY good at manipulating anyone. Nobody is invincible.
This exactly. The obvious manipulators (and yes, we all do it to some degree) are easier to spot. The really good ones have most people fooled and just seem charming or helpful and nice. The cracks show up bit by bit over a long period of time and they're great at explaining them away or making you think you imagined it or misunderstood.
 

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What are you experiences with manipulators?
I had so many experiences, it's not even funny. It's not something I accept.

Has it made you more cautious?
Well, I can tell when people are manipulating, and I do make it a point not
to get too close to those who do it on a consistent basis.

Has it made you jaded?
Jaded? Uhh, yes, lol.

How would you handle it now?
I point out when it's being done to whoever is doing it. They don't much like it,
but I have very strict boundaries when it comes to manipulation. The chances
they will continue to try to manipulate me are likely to decrease if I let them know
that I see straight through it.
 

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I am of the thought that I can only be manipulated if I allow it.

I was in a relationship where I was naive enough to be manipulated. I was married to him and have a child with him. I don't trust him but I know that I can control from where I am at. Which is because I am no longer emotionally attached to him. I can see him try to manipulate my daughter sometimes, but I stay out of it. She will make her own judgement one day.

I don't feel jaded but I may have at one time felt that way. Well, actually jaded in the sense that I hold some resentment? No. Jaded in the fact that I am cynical? Probably.

Now I wouldn't have given him two seconds of my time and wouldn't allow it. I do understand why he is the way he is, though.

In general, when I think of manipulation I do not think of him, believe it or not. He is old news. When I think of some other people that are around me who try to manipulate me and its like a constant game of chess. I try not to play into it unless I have to.
 

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I'm still young so I don't know if my "manipulator radar" is underdeveloped or just terrible.

I got manipulated quite easily by a fellow teammate earlier this year. He was extremely charming, supportive and caring. However, he nearly NEVER did his part of the project and even tried kicking me out of the team after I finished writing the plan, since I was terrible at presenting. He is a natural liar and chameleon and lies without any thought of the consequences of the future and sees people as tools.

He disgusts me.

Thanks to him I am not able to trust as easily anymore and I am more suspicious if someone is EXCEEDINGLY kind to me... it makes me wonder if they have an evil ulterior motif.
 
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