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Yeah I think we will just have to disagree. In the larger picture I would say Steve's focus is on the external and is other focused. That doesn't mean he doesn't have internal judgement, but far and away most of the time his judgement is composed of outward events and outward motivations. When trust is broken in extroverted feeling types, introverted thinking is asserted, which shows itself in Winter Soldier.

Again - Harry, Luke, Snow...they're all Fi-users who believe it's the right thing to do to sacrifice themselves for others. I don't think it's about asserting their will over external law. It's about sacrificing themselves to save others. And in their cases, sometimes it's about them because someone has made it about them.
My focus on this point was simply to show that their sacrifices are ultimately for themselves. When Snow White sacrifices herself, it's clear it is because she couldn't live with herself if her actions led to the death of her loved one. Same thing when she stops Regina's execution, she couldn't live with herself if Regina died on her orders. The primary focus here is that their choices center around them. When Harry chooses to go to Voldemort and accept death, he is doing it because allowing himself to die is the only way to destroy the horocrux inside of him and kill Voldemort. It's about him needing Voldemort dead and fulfilling Harry's journey in destroying Voldemort. That's not to say others didn't benefit from it, or that these Fi users don't love the people they are sacrificing themselves for, but ultimately the reasons why they are doing it are to fulfill an internal standard. Ultimately they are doing it to assert themselves over others and are choosing the self over the external rule or law. Snow White denies her people vengeance (that they are honestly entitled to) because her feelings/values/morals mean more to her then her people's need for justice and their safety. Harry's sacrifice is not only selfless but it is needed in order to stop Voldemort and end his reign of terror, if he does not face Voldemort and die, Voldemort continues to live and Harry is a coward. This is something Harry cannot live with so he chooses to die so Voldemort will pay for his crimes and never hurt others again, it's a personal vendetta for Harry. I didn't watch the original Star Wars so I can't say much about Luke, but I think the gist is coming clear. Other people can certainly benefit from Fi users journey, sacrifices and the like, but the focus is still and is all about them, and what things mean for them first.

And I would actually disagree - I think Fi would be much more likely to see the beauty in flaws, because while both Fi & Fe can encourage people to be their own person, Fi is more about individuality & respecting it.
I would disagree with this interpretation, primarily because it seems as if we are not using the same terminology of "flawed". Fi is very focused on authenticity and sincerity, it wants to see the person distilled to their purest essence and have that displayed for all to see this is very true, but Fi also has a black and white view of what is good and what is bad, which is what I was referencing in this point with the term "flawed". Once you are bad or evil, you are forever bad. Fi sees flaws as something internally or inherently wrong within the person and it sees flaws as something the person has no control over. They chose this way, they will continue to choose this way, this is apart of their character/composition, etc. The person is just flawed. Once they become evil, and hit that moral event horizon, once that value is crossed Fi heavily internalizes that and focuses that being as being an "other" that is evil and must be annihilated, which goes into my discussion about Fi based inferior Te.

Fe is more willing to forgive, accept and offer redemption, because it is closer to the world and it can see the flaws as just personal mistakes or bad choices. It does not see the world in a concrete form of idealistic value that comes from within, but as a commerce of values that can be distributed and shared amongst people in different shades and hues to improve life conditions.
It's not the persons fault for not seeing the "true" way of the value, they are more likely to understand and see how the world can shape a person into making wrong choices. Fe is more embracing of forgiveness. This is what I meant when I said that Fe romanticizes the flaws and sees the beauty and appreciation within the person who makes bad or flawed decisions. Fi will not think a person making bad choices is beautiful, they will think something is wrong with the person and that the person is not competent or "good" enough to see the right decision, that is right in front of them. They will come from an internalized place of "you are wrong, why can't you see this" because the subjective is clear to them. Fi looking at bad or wrong desicions will provide a judgement -- why can't you see you are making the wrong decision? Fe externalized judgement when they see people make wrong decisions is more "well people can make mistakes", because Fe sees values and morals as something to be used to benefit the people.

I think this can apply to both Fi and Fe. Certainly both are merciful, and both can understand another's point of view. It may take more for an Fi user to accept it, particularly depending on what the other person has done.
Fi users are merciful and understanding when their values are crossed, diminished or threatened? No they aren't. Not at all. Fi users are much more likely to hold a grudge and demonize the person who trashed their values and internalize on it for a very long time, and depending on how severe the grievance they may never get over it. You are right that Fi users are very accepting of others, before others step on a value of there's, but that is not what I am talking about. Fi is not prone to forgiveness once an ideal is messed with. It's much more along the lines of "you have offended me, you will pay for it." The examples you used, Harry/Malfoy, Snow/Regina, forgiveness was granted because they never reached a level that was crossed into the unforgivable line. We see that Snow White is capable of retribution when she kills Cora after finding out Cora killed her mother, and we see that Harry is capable of killing Voldemort for everything he has done to him, his family and his community. Fi does get to a point where it wants others who oppose it to be destroyed, because the existence of the other jeopardizes everything Fi is.

224 Posts
INTJ: Emma Frost
INTP: Beast / Forge
ENTJ: Magneto
ENTP: Multiple Man / Deadpool
INFJ: Xavier
INFP: Shadowcat
ENFJ: Jean Grey
ENFP: Nightcrawler
ISTJ: Cyclops
ISFJ: Colossus
ESTJ: Cable
ESFJ: Storm / Havok
ISTP: Psylocke / Wolverine / Mystique
ESTP: Gambit / Angel / M
ISFP: Rogue
ESFP: Iceman / Jubilee / Dazzler

1,418 Posts
I've only seen the Captain America movies, so all I'm sure of is that Captain America is ISFJ (his personality is so heavily Si it's actually a bit of a guess on rest), Black Widow is an Se/Ni user in that order (probably an ISxP of some kind), and Nick Fury is probably an NJ of some kind (he's got that sort of NJ blind spot where he misses what's going on because the vision is too strong). Sam Wilson/Falcon may be an ESxP and Bucky doesn't display enough personality to type yet.

1,246 Posts
Anyone have types for the "MARVEL" characters, meaning these characters-

Carol Danvers/Ms Marvel 1/ Captain Marvel 2
Kamala Khan/ Ms Marvel
(The "new" one)
Captain Marvel 1 (Only for the die hard fans; the Marvel gals are the ones I want to type the most)

I just love the current Ms. Marvel run and am curious if anyone has thoughts on either Carol or Kamala.
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