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Discussion Starter #281
@contradictionary I'm not sure what you want me to say--bravo to the Free Speech Champion on suing someone who criticized his news coverage? Nothing says Free Speech more than suing someone who accuses you of lying.
That's not the point, stop pretending like you always fail to grasp it and sidestepping the issue.

The point is, it's too easy in this digital world to check for yourself, who was right and who was lying. In this gutfield case, it is too blatant, the accuser failed to do research before accusing. Can you admit it?





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Discussion Starter #282 (Edited)
I don't trust them. Having heard the same lies being told deliberately by multiple outlets at once, I think they're taking orders from the same masters.
Let's sidestep the politicians and media pundits for a while. Who else could you count as the legitimate authority in this virus case? Right, I also thought that W.H.O as United Nation's arm in all matter relating to global health could be the ultimate source of reference.

Alas, turned out even that W.H.O is not immune to politics. Not only they fail to properly mitigate, they even become one of the main source of all the misinformation.

From all around the world news outlet:

India

Taiwan (but about Japan Vice PM)

Australia
 

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That's not the point, stop pretending like you always fail to grasp it and sidestepping the issue.

The point is, it's too easy in this digital world to check for yourself, who was right and who was lying. In this gutfield case, it is too blatant, the accuser failed to do research before accusing. Can you admit it?





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I'm pretty sure Gutfeld is just trying to be a loudmouth bully, as his ilk tend to be.

Whether or not he actually "sounded the alarm" on the coronavirus in January is up to interpretation. Sure, saying he's "lying" is a meanie-poo-poo-head thing to do and I can see why his feelings are hurt, but showing a clip where he brings up coronavirus ONCE in january can also hardly be called "sounding the alarm," on the pandemic--when you consider what a news station should do.

There are also ALL those clips of other things that Fox News said--such as "now is the best time to fly" and "it's just the flu" (over and over again). Now what--no one should criticize that because Fox news anchors will bluster about threatening to sue them with no real case? Who cares?

I doubt that his claim that saying he is "lying" will hold a lot of water in the court of law. If it does and he wants to sue over such "slander" then let him try.

It sounds pathetic and childish, like a whining bully who doesn't like being talked back to. No--I don't think he "sounded the alarm on coronavirus in January" just because his news agency managed to report on it once as if it was possibly a real threat.

Fox News is a theater of clowns and everyone knows that though--not sure the point of criticizing them anymore, except that a lot of older people do watch Fox so that could put the most vulnerable group of people in danger. But Fox hasn't shown much ethical concern for the quality of its journalism for a long time.

If Gutfeld should sue another journalist for saying he was "lying" about sounding the alarm on coronavirus, then should every journalist that the president has called "nasty" or "bad" because for whatever stupid reason he doesn't like their question--sue him? Not going to happen because even though Fox News hosts might think they can act like hypocritical babies to bully people, most of the press is actually more to record news than to be part of it.

In short, I think it's pathetic and deceptive, and makes him look like a bully with a big mouth and no integrity.

Here--now stating facts is "sensationalism."


People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks?
 

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Discussion Starter #285
Trump seems more concerned about his ego than the virus, as per usual
This always true, regardless of everything.

Yet loaded questions are not real questions. Mere fakes.

And who are we to teach this nasty narcissistic orangeman how to tackle this virus better, with foaming mouths, when we wore the very basic thing like this?










Are we watching the who are the most laughable contest, or what?
 

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This always true, regardless of everything.

Yet loaded questions are not real questions. Mere fakes.

And who are we to teach this nasty narcissistic orangeman how to tackle this virus better, with foaming mouths, when we wore the very basic thing like this?










Are we watching the who are the most laughable contest, or what?
You do understand that on American News channels, not everyone who appears on the news is "the media," especially when it's just photographers taking video of city streets, public speakers, interviews of the public etc?

So the people in the pictures you posted are probably just normal citizens who didn't put their masks on correctly...not "the media"?

In the USA, "the media" often interviews citizens and also uses video and photos of citizens in the news. It doesn't mean every citizen that appears in media footage is a journalist or somehow employed by the media.

I'm pretty sure Donald Trump has access to better resources to tell him how to wear a mask, then random citizens that you screensaved from News clips. And besides that--Trump has already announced he won't be wearing a mask, despite the recommendations of the CDC.

Sure, random people in news clips might be just as much of role models as Trump is, to the US--and maybe in some conspiracy theory they are all paid actors and part of "the media" who is trying to teach Americans how to wear masks wrong. But that I don't think most people will believe that, since it's so divorced from reality.
 

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You do understand that on American News channels, not everyone who appears on the news is "the media," especially when it's just photographers taking video of city streets, public speakers, interviews of the public etc?

So the people in the pictures you posted are probably just normal citizens who didn't put their masks on correctly...not "the media"?

In the USA, "the media" often interviews citizens and also uses video and photos of citizens in the news. It doesn't mean every citizen that appears in media footage is a journalist or somehow employed by the media.

I'm pretty sure Donald Trump has access to better resources to tell him how to wear a mask, then random citizens that you screensaved from News clips. And besides that--Trump has already announced he won't be wearing a mask, despite the recommendations of the CDC.

Sure, random people in news clips might be just as much of role models as Trump is, to the US--and maybe in some conspiracy theory they are all paid actors and part of "the media" who is trying to teach Americans how to wear masks wrong. But that I don't think most people will believe that, since it's so divorced from reality.

Point missed. Who is the "we" contradictonary speaks of?

How can john Q public criticize the government response when John Q public won't even wear a mask correctly? When they get sick, who will they blame?
 

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Point missed. Who is the "we" contradictonary speaks of?

How can john Q public criticize the government response when John Q public won't even wear a mask correctly? When they get sick, who will they blame?
How can the public criticize the government, when some of the public doesn't know how to wear a mask?

Are you kidding me?

That is the point?

Um...because some of the public knows how to wear masks too. Are you saying all those people wearing masks wrong were somehow 'criticizing the government' because I'd be curious to hear that audio clip especially of the first guy who looks somewhat oblivious to the camera.

Like he's probably muttering something about Trump under his breath and that's what they put on the news. "THIS JUST IN! Guy wearing the mask wrong, crossing the street, criticizing president Trump at the same time to no one in particular!"

The public can criticize the government for lots of reasons--and they do. Both conservatives and liberals do, and everything in between and outside of those groups.

That some members of the public don't know how to wear masks right doesn't make all the criticisms invalid, especially when we have no evidence that any of those people in the pictures were criticizing the government.

America was advised not to wear masks until just recently--we are going to be way behind countries in Asia when it comes to our public response to pandemics. It's just not even part of our culture yet to wear masks in public. And the president himself isn't going to do it--doubt he's going to give any lessons on it any time soon.

People with limited resources and knowledge at least attempting to wear masks is better than people with all the resources available failing to adhere to the proper safety recommendations.
 

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If they get sick, is it Trumps fault?
Trump is the LEADER of the country. He is responsible for pooling our common resources to fight the virus and protect as many people as possible.

If trump fails to do that, then he is responsible for what he fails to do as the leader.

If Trump actually wanted to address the issue of Americans not knowing how to wear face masks, he could demonstrate it himself. Frankly, I'd rather see him do something more useful than whine about reporters.

He could show the public (or even have someone else put the mask on him) how to put the mask on.

But as per whether he's helping educate the public on face masks? He could probably do better.

The DOD is urging military families to wear masks:
https://www.defense.gov/Explore/News/Article/Article/2141070/defense-health-official-urges-personnel-families-to-wear-face-masks/

I'm not aware of many good PSAs on face masks by the US govt. but I don't watch cable--here's a PSA from Czech Republic, that came up in google search:

Up until recently, Americans weren't even being told to wear masks--or were told not to wear them unless you are sick. So these people wearing masks wrong? At least they even bothered to try. And as much as I understand we all need a little something to laugh about, I don't think it's good to get too high and mighty in judging them for doing it wrong.

I hope that we will see changes in educating the public to use masks in the US, now that it has been embraced and we have changed our advice on masks to encourage them.

And yes--Melania Trump did a good thing in her PSA though it could have been a little bit more informative as to how to properly wear masks.


Americans have largely never worn masks like this--it's not culturally accepted, as it is in a lot of Asian countries. Bravo for those Americans in the photos who tried--they could have done better, but considering they were being told not to wear masks and there is a general shortage in the country, they did better than they could have.
 

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Trump is the LEADER of the country. He is responsible for pooling our common resources to fight the virus and protect as many people as possible.

If trump fails to do that, then he is responsible for what he fails to do as the leader.
Would that make Obama culpable in all the US H1N1 deaths? Sounds like there is a double standard in play here.

Should Trump make a PSA video about drunk driving too so we can stop those needless deaths? Why stop there, right?
 

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Would that make Obama culpable in all the US H1N1 deaths? Sounds like there is a double standard in play here.

Should Trump make a PSA video about drunk driving too so we can stop those needless deaths? Why stop there, right?
Coronavirus isn't the swine flu. It's more contagious than H1N1. The mortality rate of H1N1 is 0.02%, which is at least ten times lower than the mortality rate of COVID 19.

But Obama's treatment of H1N1 PSA seemed fairly on point. He takes it seriously, and he even designed a pandemic team, based on his experiences with disease threats (including Ebola)--so fortunately we weren't totally unprepared (though Trump administration did dissolve his pandemic response team before COVID emerged, back in 2018).

For Obama, it was actually new--he didn't have the same luxury that Trump did, of dealing with an emerging pandemic after a previous president had already set a lot of safety measures in place, from having to deal with one back in 2009.


Don't compare COVID 19 to the Swine flu or drunk driving. It's not the same thing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/coronavirus-may-be-deadlier-than-1918-flu-heres-how-it-stacks-up-to-other-pandemics.html

And since this thread's about the media--here's a comparison to how Fox News talked about Obama and Trump. You can see Obama didn't get a free pass during anything, especially from "the media" like Faux News.

 

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Coronavirus isn't the swine flu. It's more contagious than H1N1. The mortality rate of H1N1 is 0.02%, which is at least ten times lower than the mortality rate of COVID 19.
So if Covid 19 is indeed 10 times worse, why expect Trump to do as the same as or better than Obama did with H1N1? If his response were proportionally10x's greater in scale and scope, like you know, shutting 25% of the country down, ordering companies to produce product, shutting multiple borders, etc... wouldn't that make Trump 10 times better than Obama?

Or will you say H1N1 isn't the same? oh wait, you say it isn't several times in your reply. If H1N1 claimed 12,469, does that mean if Trump keeps Covid 19 (10x's worse) under 124,690, he'll be recorded s a better president than Obama? Should we compare them or not? It's 10 times worse, but I should expect the same or better results... Right?

The first case of COVID-19 in the U.S was identified on Jan. 20, and the country's Department of Health and Human Services declared COVID-19 a public health emergency 11 days later, on Jan. 31. Similarly, the U.S. declared the swine flu a public health emergency 11 days after the first confirmed U.S. case in 2009.


For Obama, it was actually new--he didn't have the same luxury that Trump did, of dealing with an emerging pandemic after a previous president had already set a lot of safety measures in place, from having to deal with one back in 2009.
Like Obama wiping out all the government stockpiles of face masks during genuine times of need, and then not replenishing them under his tenure, while later being told they need replenished and not doing so? That's some really good "pooling of resources". thanks Obama, great setup and safety measure.

Like if I buy my wife a gun to protect herself form intruders, but I leave it empty. Then there is a home invasion and the kids get hurt and I'm saying "why didn't you shoot him? You have a gun right there! Why didn't you check the magazine the day before? You are so irresponsible, it's your fault".

Don't compare COVID 19 to the Swine flu or drunk driving. It's not the same thing.
Why not? We are talking about our leader being responsible. So the president is only responsible for some pandemics, not others like H1N1, or public policy issues like drunk driving? Got it.


I think the expectations are the primary cause of dissatisfaction here, and the media is a major factor in that. That and TDS. Other governments are struggling worse than us, and it's still "orange man bad". Of course this isn't going well, why would it? It's 10 times worse than anything we have faced in our lifetimes, but we should expect the same or better results as the last one.
 

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Would that make Obama culpable in all the US H1N1 deaths? Sounds like there is a double standard in play here.

Should Trump make a PSA video about drunk driving too so we can stop those needless deaths? Why stop there, right?
I'll skip the analogical comparision this time, but you exchanged 'responsible' for 'culpable'.

https://wikidiff.com/responsibility/culpability

Of course Obama was responsible just like Clinton took responsibility for Benghazi. That's different from being culpable.

In response to criticism, which was also from Trump, Obama established a Pandemic Response team, to be able to respond more quickly and accurately. Which was disbanded by Trump. Though he'd called it reorganized. Congressional inquiry should evaluate that and make recommendations for the future.

Trump just doesn't like congressional oversight.



 

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I'll skip the analogical comparision this time, but you exchanged 'responsible' for 'culpable'.

https://wikidiff.com/responsibility/culpability

It seemes to me that She described both responsibility and culpability.

Trump is the LEADER of the country. He is responsible for pooling our common resources to fight the virus and protect as many people as possible.

If trump fails to do that, then he is responsible for what he fails to do as the leader.
It was my hope to parse that out. Was Obama culpable for any deaths for actions or inaction he did or didn't do?
 

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She described both responsibility and culpability.



It was my hope to parse that out. Was Obama culpable for any deaths for actions or inaction he did or didn't do?
Where did she write culpable? Somewhere in your mind perhaps?
 

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Where did she write culpable? Somewhere in your mind perhaps?
She didn't, perhaps she's not familiar with the term.

Woudl it be more accurate if it were writen as such:

If trump fails to do that, then he is culpablee for what he fails to do as the leader.

Only WickerDeer knows what she meant. If Trump isn't culpable, that will certainly help move the discussion along, no more blame for Trump.

I do however, want to know if Obama is culpable. I chose my wording specifically because I do know it's meaning. If not, that too will be helpful to move the discussion along. If world leaders are to be held to a standard of being responsible, but not to the point that they are deemed culpable for whatever the results are, that woudl change a lot of narritives.
 

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She didn't, perhaps she's not familiar with the term.

Woudl it be more accurate if it were writen as such:

If trump fails to do that, then he is culpablee for what he fails to do as the leader.

Only WickerDeer knows what she meant. If Trump isn't culpable, that will certainly help move the discussion along, no more blame for Trump.

I do however, want to know if Obama is culpable. I chose my wording specifically because I do know it's meaning. If not, that too will be helpful to move the discussion along. If world leaders are to be held to a standard of being responsible, but not to the point that they are deemed culpable for whatever the results are, that woudl change a lot of narritives.
You just want ride your appeal to hypocrisy hobby horse.

Responsible isn't always also culpable and not every failure is necessarily also culpable. That depends on the situation.
 
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