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Discussion Starter #1
Who would be the most influential of the three? Who is the biggest threat to the unsuspecting public?
Only your posts will tell...
 

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Our posts won't tell.

An influential person may have more influence outside the internet. The internet is an open medium where anyone could voice their thoughts with little inhibition.

On the real life, it should be ENTP. On the internet, it could be anyone with an N, T, and P.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Our posts won't tell.

An influential person may have more influence outside the internet. The internet is an open medium where anyone could voice their thoughts with little inhibition.

On the real life, it should be ENTP. On the internet, it could be anyone with an N, T, and P.
Perhaps, you would like to change your user name to Mr. Literal. I suggest you do before another Dwight Shrute-like person finds out about the site.
 

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I think they would differ in what they manipulate.

ESTP - could probably manipulate people into letting go of their hard earned cash for their own benefits, for example, why does going out partying with ESTP's always end up so darn expensive. They'll conveniently reassure you that it was the best time ever and somehow get you to agree to do it all again next week :S


ENFJ - Will manipulate people 'for their own good'. For example, if said ENFJ truly believes that a 10 minutes of meditating in the morning sun with an apple balance perfectly on your right foot, is a sure path to enlightenment and inner peace, then you will strangely find yourself giving up a good hour a day striking ridiculous poses. Apologies in advance to some dear PC friends, but nasty ENFJ will wither your self-esteem down to a mere morsel, and you'll find yourself thanking them for being so patient with you :S


ENTP - Will manipulate for their own achievement/image/or for the sheer amusement they get simply from watching your face change when you realize you've been tricked. For example, you could be in a lengthy debate with one, and through a series of strategically planned questions you'll find yourself accidently arguing against your original point. The ENTP smirks whist trying to cover their tricksy delight, everyone thinks you are daft, and that the ENTP looks extremely clever. This is how they get promotions!
 

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ESTP and ENTP generally are overrated for their manipulative ability, they might like to get a reaction out of someone or see what happens if they do such and such, but they aren't particularly skilled at it.

ENFJ are the natural PUA of the world, if that's the type of manipulation you're referring to (manipulating women into bed).

INFJ and INTJ are typically the best at most types of manipulation and are the biggest threat to unsuspecting public for sure (very good at getting under the radar).
 

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ESTP and ENTP generally are overrated for their manipulative ability, they might like to get a reaction out of someone or see what happens if they do such and such, but they aren't particularly skilled at it.

ENFJ are the natural PUA of the world, if that's the type of manipulation you're referring to (manipulating women into bed).
The reason is that I've rarely heard of xNFJs manipulating for their own sake. ExTPs are more likely to use it as a tool IME and are, therefore, technically a bigger threat.
 
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The reason is that I've rarely heard of xNFJs manipulating for their own sake. ExTPs are more likely to use it as a tool IME and are, therefore, technically a bigger threat.
I actually think INxJ are a WAY bigger threat as dominant Ni holds the subjective view of the way things should be and their deepest desire is to want to bring it to reality, which generally means they have to manipulate to make it happen.

ESTP/ENTP etc. don't possess that deep intrinsic motivation to do so.
 

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I actually think INxJ are a WAY bigger threat as dominant Ni holds the subjective view of the way things should be and their deepest desire is to want to bring it to reality, which generally means they have to manipulate to make it happen.

ESTP/ENTP etc. don't possess that deep intrinsic motivation to do so.
I'd associate tendencies with manipulation with Fe. I don't think that INTJs would be as big on it as INFJs. Otherwise you could say the exact same thing for IxTPs and IxFPs as Fi and Ti also give strong views that are subjective.
 

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Perhaps, you would like to change your user name to Mr. Literal. I suggest you do before another Dwight Shrute-like person finds out about the site.
I honestly do not know that you're offended when I said "our posts won't tell".
I'm just looking at this from my limited knowledge of MBTI.

I also have to google to find out who is Mr Literal and Dwight Schrute.
 

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I'd associate tendencies with manipulation with Fe. I don't think that INTJs would be as big on it as INFJs. Otherwise you could say the exact same thing for IxTPs and IxFPs as Fi and Ti also give strong views that are subjective.
Yeah...our plans don't exactly tend to involve other humans much, so there is no real value in manipulating them.
 

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I'd associate tendencies with manipulation with Fe. I don't think that INTJs would be as big on it as INFJs. Otherwise you could say the exact same thing for IxTPs and IxFPs as Fi and Ti also give strong views that are subjective.
Manipulation is basically leveraging a situation to your advantage or getting what you want - not necesarily a social situation - it could be a logical system.

For INTJ/INFJ, Te and Fe are both means to an end to take action to get the Ni view of how things should be out e.g. for Ni/Te style manipulation, there are plenty of extremely wealthy INTJ corporates out there that have manipulated the legal system to their advantage etc.

Fi and Ti doesn't hold particularly strong views the same Ni and also Si do - they are adaptive, compass functions so react to events that occur in real time whilst Ni and Si are directive, worldview functions.
 

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My best friend in the world was an ESTP and I'm an ENFJ. We were scary manipulative together. We could go on a road trip and not pay for a single thing, legally. lol

I disagree that INFJ's are good manipulators. My current best friends are both INFJ's. They are way too protective and pessimistic to be effective manipulators. They tend to distrust others and they are not shy about it. When you distrust other people other people tend to distrust you.
 

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Manipulation is basically leveraging a situation to your advantage or getting what you want - not necesarily a social situation - it could be a logical system.

For INTJ/INFJ, Te and Fe are both means to an end to take action to get the Ni view of how things should be out e.g. for Ni/Te style manipulation, there are plenty of extremely wealthy INTJ corporates out there that have manipulated the legal system to their advantage etc.

Fi and Ti doesn't hold particularly strong views the same Ni and also Si do - they are adaptive, compass functions so react to events that occur in real time whilst Ni and Si are directive, worldview functions.
I know a ton of INFJ's and I don't think I've ever met a single one that I would consider manipulative. Nice, sensitive people, but not manipulative at all.

Now ENFJ's, wow, those guys can manipulate the hell out of you if you don't see it coming. Their tendency to always say the right thing combined with the fact that they are able to make every interaction they have seem secretive makes them master manipulators. In my experience, they tend to be extremely two-faced and can turn the whole world against you if you are not prepared. I actually enjoy spending time with them due to the fact that with an ENFJ on my side, I can manipulate the entire world. If one is around, they usually pick up on what I'm trying to get out of the person I'm manipulating and help me accomplish my objective. They are great for collaboration. ENFJ's manipulate people to move themselves forward socially, they also tend not to see what they are doing as manipulation.

ESTP's can manipulate you to a certain point, usually though, their "say anything at anytime" nature gets the better of them and they wind up shooting themselves in the foot. It seems like they would also rather not be around people they don't like, even if given the chance to manipulate them. They are great at manipulating their friends though.ESTP's manipulate their friends in order to get what they want out of them(usually money, or that expensive watch you just bought).

ENTP's tend to spend a lot of time with people they don't like so that they can manipulate them to oblivion. I, however would never manipulate my friends(unless they are doing something that I see as wrong and I want to manipulate them into doing it the right way, or if I want them to buy me dinner :crazy: ) ENTP's manipulate people they don't like in order to make them look stupid, or to just prove to themselves that they are smarter than you, it's really just a game.
 

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This is a great thread so excuse me while I resurrect it for a second here.

I don't have much experience with ESTPs, so I couldn't tell you.

ENTPs are definitely manipulative, but in ways that are kind of childish. I'm not saying they're not complex, (Believe me, they are.) just that our manipulations are mostly ways to prove to ourselves and others how wonderful we are.

ENFJs, however, don't see a lot of their manipulations as manipulation and that is a sign of a true master. Being able to genuinely believe that what you're doing is acceptable while providing the emotional response of how "terribly sorry" you are once you're caught is no small feat. I can mimic that to a certain effect, but if you look close enough there will be little signs. With an ENFJ you get nothing. I definitely admire them. They unknowingly teach so many great techniques.

:maniacal laugh:
 
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ENTPs are manipulative, but not on some grandiose scale. Perhaps to get others to pull some small favors or to make good first impressions, but I believe that we prefer to keep some level of social norms and balance due to a tertiary Fe. However, perhaps given just the option of the three, ENTPs may be the most manipulative, as ESTPs tend to be much more action oriented and not thinking about some larger idea (correct me if I'm wrong), and ENFJs are oriented towards maintaining social stability with a dominant Fe. I think ENTJ is the most natural choice, but it is not given here.
 

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In my experience, ESTPs manipulate to get something they want, in the moment. The ESTPs I know are pretty good at this, but tend to be more cut, dried and direct than I would be, so, while it works very efficiently on the unsuspecting, they encounter a lot of unnecessary resistance that slows them down in the long term.

ENTPs manipulate for their own amusement most often, but we are more than capable of doing it solely for gain. It's almost always a game in some form: what changes is how much is game, and how much is gain. Problem with the game mentality is that we may do it at inopportune times, or we may screw with someone beyond getting what we need out of them. However, the more complex we make the game, the faster we progress.

I have less experience with ENFJs, but I've noticed that they tend to manipulate when they think it will help you. Because they believe so strongly in what they're saying most of the time, coupled with the fact that, almost by nature, they're quite attuned to what people's needs are, makes them very effective manipulators by default.

In the short term, I would say that ENFJs are the best at it, because they tend to do it in a way that is more disarming by default, and which is more congruent with their day to day personality. However, ENTPs do it best in the long run, because we tend to progress to weaving more and more complex webs with greater ease.
 

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The reason is that I've rarely heard of xNFJs manipulating for their own sake. ExTPs are more likely to use it as a tool IME and are, therefore, technically a bigger threat.
I see this to be quite the opposite. In my experience, NFJs are the most likely type to manipulate, especially for their own sake. An unhealthy ESFJ, being the exception.

I've known many ENFPs to be quite good at manipulation as well.

As far as I know, I'm not closely aquainted with any EXTPs, so I can't comment further.
 

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One of the most infamous ENFJs of all time was Hitler. He manipulated masses of people to following in his cause. This is due to the Giver's (or Teacher's) Idealist temperment. NF's are some of the best flirts and romantics because they are able to reach something deeper than just the thoughts of those they intend to manipulate, but their emotions. Though this may seem like it only appeals to the Ns and not Ss consider that NF temperments can are the people readers and know exactly what their targets want. This, coupled with the Giver's EJ carisma makes it much more efficent at manipulating in general.

The heart of it is though it depends who you are manipulating. To a SP a NF will be most effective because of their exciting ideas of what life can be. To a SJ a NT will be most effective because of their realistic "rational" views. SP's can manipulate anyone to some extent, but only in spur of the moment conditions in which SP's live and relate to people. These instances have little depth however and are not nearly as persuasive as an NF or NT.

My vote then is ENFJ*
 

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One of the most infamous ENFJs of all time was Hitler. He manipulated masses of people to following in his cause.
What proof do you have that Hitler was an ENFJ? None. Many also believe he was an INFP. No one will ever know. You can't decide his type soley from a biography.


I do somewhat agree with your ideas regarding ENFJ, mainly because ENFJs are experts at reading people (along with ESTPs and INFJs of course), although I don't believe a healthy NF would ever manipulate anyone for sport or their benefit if they truly cared about the person.
 
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