People have often told me to "let things go" or to "grow up" but I have never considered it to be good advice. They are assuming that my value system is the same as theirs. They are also assuming that their value system is the gold standard.
Maturation?
So for the first 13 years of my life i had a wonderful life full of friends, getting whatever i could justify "needing" to my parents, if i got in a fight with siblings they lost because they were older and should be more mature. . .
Now I'm 17 and its backwards. I have a new little sister who is figuring out my ways, Now i need to be the mature one. . . my parents send me to a counciler because im being "extremely" rude to my little sis when we get in fights, the couciler tells me its misdirected anger from my father. . . (doesnt make sense yet, just stick with me)
My counciler tells me obviously my dad hasnt grown up so i need to do the growing up and learn to deal with him because he isnt going to do the changing.
My longest friend i have know for my entire life, Now we are in high school and he is annoying as hell. . . every little thing he does drives me insane, other people do the same stuff and i dont pay any attention to it, he does it and it just drives me insane. I cannot justify why he irks me so much. . .(almost there)
My mom tells me he is just immature and i need to just be the mature one and not let the stupid things he does effect me.
My closest friend who is an ENTJ, we theorize and debate, go to parties hang out with other friends, he knows me better than my own family, lately I cannot stand him, we get in an arguement that would usually turn out as a friendly debate and it shakes me and i end up mentally beaten and bruised. . .
Our INxJ friend tells me that the ENTJ is just too arrogant and stubborn, and i need to "grow a pair, and some thick skin" and try to change myself to deal with him and not try to just win him everytime.
All of these just come down to i need to "grow up". I just need some help, whether it be how you other ENTPs matured or just some ways to deal with letting go of my grudges, dealing with strong personalities, anything will probably help. even if you can just help me idetify some of my immature traits that are holding me back and how to change them. . .
My INxJ friend said i am passive-aggresive, I sulk when i need to just forive and forget, things like that.
Now I'm 17 and its backwards. I have a new little sister who is figuring out my ways, Now i need to be the mature one. . . my parents send me to a counciler because im being "extremely" rude to my little sis when we get in fights, the couciler tells me its misdirected anger from my father. . . (doesnt make sense yet, just stick with me)
My counciler tells me obviously my dad hasnt grown up so i need to do the growing up and learn to deal with him because he isnt going to do the changing.
My longest friend i have know for my entire life, Now we are in high school and he is annoying as hell. . . every little thing he does drives me insane, other people do the same stuff and i dont pay any attention to it, he does it and it just drives me insane. I cannot justify why he irks me so much. . .(almost there)
My mom tells me he is just immature and i need to just be the mature one and not let the stupid things he does effect me.
My closest friend who is an ENTJ, we theorize and debate, go to parties hang out with other friends, he knows me better than my own family, lately I cannot stand him, we get in an arguement that would usually turn out as a friendly debate and it shakes me and i end up mentally beaten and bruised. . .
Our INxJ friend tells me that the ENTJ is just too arrogant and stubborn, and i need to "grow a pair, and some thick skin" and try to change myself to deal with him and not try to just win him everytime.
All of these just come down to i need to "grow up". I just need some help, whether it be how you other ENTPs matured or just some ways to deal with letting go of my grudges, dealing with strong personalities, anything will probably help. even if you can just help me idetify some of my immature traits that are holding me back and how to change them. . .
My INxJ friend said i am passive-aggresive, I sulk when i need to just forive and forget, things like that.
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I agree with you. I think sometimes letting things go is good but alot of the times I am just in what I think. I remember I stayed mad at a middle school friend because the second that middle school was over i'd I.M. them and they'd act like I was annoying them and then they started acting rude and eventually changed their I.M. without telling me so we stopped talking. (we didn't hang out outside of school because of my overprotective mother never letting me go anywhere). They were supposed to be my best friend. So I stayed mad for years at them. When I told my other friend this they didn't respond and probably thought I was being ridiculous. When my former friend first talked to me on myspace years later I barely talked to them which is not how I usually react to old friends.People have often told me to "let things go" or to "grow up" but I have never considered it to be good advice. They are assuming that my value system is the same as theirs. They are also assuming that their value system is the gold standard.
Over time though I realized that perhaps they changed and perhaps I just needed to let go because they would most likely never be in the position to do that to me again so I did. We don't talk much but i'm finally over it.
I think though that us ENTP's need to find our own way with these sort of things. People don't tend to look for the same things in people that we do so they just don't understand.
Besides I don't know about anyone else but I meet alot of people and my usual group of friends changes every few years. I need some way of weeding out the ones that aren't worth my time.
Isn't it your mom's job to raise the kid? Not yours? You didn't ask for another sister at age 17.
EDIT: I didn't read the entire post (aka most of it) before. ENTPs can be told to grow up or fix their grades all they want, but until we bump our heads we're not gonna change. We need to see a logical reason.
EDIT: I didn't read the entire post (aka most of it) before. ENTPs can be told to grow up or fix their grades all they want, but until we bump our heads we're not gonna change. We need to see a logical reason.
Well I wondered if its because when i was little before i established a good basis of who i was I made strong relationships with my father, my friend as a child, and my friend i connected with very well, now they all tend to screw me in one way or another quite often, and i wondered if i cant quite let go because i have too strong of a connection with them to just walk away, yet they keep slapping me, punching me, and shoving me away. Yet i just keep walking back into it over and over again. . .
This period of life between like mid-teens to like late 20s is where people grow up and turn into independent adults. It is stressful I agree. In fact they did some happiness studies and it is people in their middle age and past it who have reported to be happiest with their lives, not the young people. I mean you are just leading a carefree life where people catered to your needs, and then bam, responsibilities get dropped on you and suddenly you are asked to consider others, not just yourself.
I know one ENTP who fitted description of passive-aggressive personality disorder very well. He had a very strong competitive Ti and throughout his childhood his selfish displays of competitiveness and anger were severely repressed. So what happened is that his subconscious re-modified itself and while he would cooperate on the surface, unconsciously he would do everything to compromise projects and escape the responsibilities that were placed on him. This hunted him in his career later in life and eventually landed him in a very unpleasant divorce, as he would promise but not deliver and was always looking after himself. Consciously he felt something was wrong with him, and came to believe it was fate. He was just born under unlucky stars. The reason was somewhere else, out there, not in himself, in those other people who chose to distance themselves from him. Long story short, yes, if you don't learn to channel your competive and argumentative urges in constructive manner and away from people who are close to you, and occasionally stop and do some self-introspection, you can end up like him.
As for your sister, do you love her? Ever feel protective of her? I mean she is your sibling, your very blood. Whatever happens with your parents later on it will be your siblings who will be closest thing for you to family in this life. It makes all the logical sense to cultivate warm feelings towards your siblings rathe than pick fights, especially over small unimportant things.
I know one ENTP who fitted description of passive-aggressive personality disorder very well. He had a very strong competitive Ti and throughout his childhood his selfish displays of competitiveness and anger were severely repressed. So what happened is that his subconscious re-modified itself and while he would cooperate on the surface, unconsciously he would do everything to compromise projects and escape the responsibilities that were placed on him. This hunted him in his career later in life and eventually landed him in a very unpleasant divorce, as he would promise but not deliver and was always looking after himself. Consciously he felt something was wrong with him, and came to believe it was fate. He was just born under unlucky stars. The reason was somewhere else, out there, not in himself, in those other people who chose to distance themselves from him. Long story short, yes, if you don't learn to channel your competive and argumentative urges in constructive manner and away from people who are close to you, and occasionally stop and do some self-introspection, you can end up like him.
As for your sister, do you love her? Ever feel protective of her? I mean she is your sibling, your very blood. Whatever happens with your parents later on it will be your siblings who will be closest thing for you to family in this life. It makes all the logical sense to cultivate warm feelings towards your siblings rathe than pick fights, especially over small unimportant things.
Listen to your mom. She knows you better than you think.My mom tells me he is just immature and i need to just be the mature one and not let the stupid things he does effect me.
Also, when it comes to friends and family, pick your battles carefully. As an ENTP, you have the skills and know-how to not only wage war, but to win with extreme prejudice if you choose. However, some of these battles just aren't worth winning.
I find it hard to believe that ALL of these people were in the wrong and that you aren't at all! It sounds like you are going through something hard, and for some reason taking it out on everyone else. It also sounds like you have become very sensitive, or it could be the start of a depression. Be careful not to get stuck in that trap.
Thats a very good point. I went through the same experience and came to the same conclusion but after much terrible experiences.People have often told me to "let things go" or to "grow up" but I have never considered it to be good advice. They are assuming that my value system is the same as theirs. They are also assuming that their value system is the gold standard.
I feel that ENTP value system is most flexible and highly different and more often than not people will fail to understand us.
Is it common with ENTP's to fight with their sisters in serious ways. I also have one.
I feel like you guys took some of my stories wrong. . .
Im mainly just looking for some advice on how to deal with these things or if other ENTPs had to consciously decide to start growing up.
My INxJ friend told me that i need to just work on my weaknesses, he said in order to help myself i need to humiliate myself using my weaknesses which will then make the numb to just little prods and ill be less sensitive. He also told me to work on being assertive instead of passive aggressive, between the two he thought i would be fine dealing with people, He figures that I WILL run into more of these people who i will need to deal with, so if i get to the point they no longer bug me then i will be fine later on.
I never said i didnt do anything wrong im just looking for advice to deal with the things that bother me so much, These are just the people i have narrowed it down to, They are the 3 people in my life that bother me more than anyone or anything else i have encountered.I find it hard to believe that ALL of these people were in the wrong and that you aren't at all! It sounds like you are going through something hard, and for some reason taking it out on everyone else. It also sounds like you have become very sensitive, or it could be the start of a depression. Be careful not to get stuck in that trap.
Im mainly just looking for some advice on how to deal with these things or if other ENTPs had to consciously decide to start growing up.
My INxJ friend told me that i need to just work on my weaknesses, he said in order to help myself i need to humiliate myself using my weaknesses which will then make the numb to just little prods and ill be less sensitive. He also told me to work on being assertive instead of passive aggressive, between the two he thought i would be fine dealing with people, He figures that I WILL run into more of these people who i will need to deal with, so if i get to the point they no longer bug me then i will be fine later on.
ENTP's like to improve themselves. You'll improve at your own pace on your own time. The thought to improve this for yourself is in the back of your mind so now it's a matter of letting time take care of the matter. The only thing that will make an ENTP change is logic and changing their thinking a bit.I feel like you guys took some of my stories wrong. . .
I never said i didnt do anything wrong im just looking for advice to deal with the things that bother me so much, These are just the people i have narrowed it down to, They are the 3 people in my life that bother me more than anyone or anything else i have encountered.
Im mainly just looking for some advice on how to deal with these things or if other ENTPs had to consciously decide to start growing up.
My INxJ friend told me that i need to just work on my weaknesses, he said in order to help myself i need to humiliate myself using my weaknesses which will then make the numb to just little prods and ill be less sensitive. He also told me to work on being assertive instead of passive aggressive, between the two he thought i would be fine dealing with people, He figures that I WILL run into more of these people who i will need to deal with, so if i get to the point they no longer bug me then i will be fine later on.
I get nervous when dealing with people in power at times. I used to be extremely shy as a child and i've come a long way. When going to job interviews in order to make myself less nervous I keep telling myself that the interviewer might be in power but they are human and they are the same as I am just more successful. If I can win them over on personality and trying to relate myself to them in some way then I put myself in a better position to get the job and anyways there is nothing to lose by going in there and taking a less timid approach. They don't have any control over me once I leave so I might as well change and put myself out there a bit more. I will learn more from taking a different approach.
I don't know if any of us can give you that bit of advice which will help alleviate all your stress. What I do know is that you're taking the right steps towards maturation when you reflect and actively seek to better yourself. I think that's commendable and worth a few bonus points.
Well it seems like ENTPs are so in tune with themselves they can almost communicate with thier sub concious. Some people have said that we can send ourselves into a depression one day, and just be completely fine the next day. Is this true? Can ENTPs communicate with thier sub conciousness in such a way as to send themselves in and out of depression as the feel, or maybe decide to start a maturation process, in order to better themselves?
lol, No.Well it seems like ENTPs are so in tune with themselves
No, No, No.... and No.they can almost communicate with thier sub concious. Some people have said that we can send ourselves into a depression one day, and just be completely fine the next day. Is this true? Can ENTPs communicate with thier sub conciousness in such a way as to send themselves in and out of depression as the feel, or maybe decide to start a maturation process, in order to better themselves?
ENTP's are perhaps the least in tune with themselves and thus typically the last to mature.
NT's look like big kids to the other types.
Lol oh i guess i was completely mislead, care to straighten me out?
It is not that ENTPs are in touch with their subconsciousness more than other types that they can just squish depression overnight and wake up as if nothing happened. It is just that ENTP's main function Ne is very good at identifying future possibilities in environment that are open to ENTP and secondary function Ti is good at filtering those possibilities which are of personal benefit to the ENTP. Thus why people say ENTPs are opportunistic in how they think. This Ne-Ti combination makes it easier for ENTP to move on to new opportunities and leave painful situations and failures behind, to feel positive about the future sensing all the opportunities ahead, to not dwell on the past but move on. Consequently there is no need for introspection if one can simply hop on to the next favorable situation.
ahem.
No.
The issue is the placement of Fi in ENTP's it's the fourth function.
Fi classifies how ENTP's' feel within themselves.
Think of it this way.
Let's Say 10 batteries are assigned to a minds functions.
The first function gets 5
The second functions gets 3
The third function gets 2
The fourth functions gets 1
So as far as cognitive ability goes the entp mind devotes the least amount of energy to understanding their own feelings. That's not to say the feelings aren't there they just aren't classifiable.
"Fi: The fourth function of the ENTp is Fi, by which subjective feeling substantiates itself through various ethical processes. Since the ENTp type thrives in a world of logical and non-ethical and objective principles, it may be rendered difficult for this type to deconstruct and disassemble various levels of emotions, feelings, and moods in order to gauge a sense of their inner workings or how they habitually function. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include a disability to understand ones own emotional state as it applies to self and others, difficulty understanding the emotional intentions of other, an inability to comprehend the amount of emotion needed to establish long lasting relationships, loosing interest in associating with people who are either too attentive or non-attentive, not knowing the right thing to say to people to avoid hurting them, accidentally insulting or offending people and not understanding why, and general lack of values or ethics. "
No.
The issue is the placement of Fi in ENTP's it's the fourth function.
Fi classifies how ENTP's' feel within themselves.
Think of it this way.
Let's Say 10 batteries are assigned to a minds functions.
The first function gets 5
The second functions gets 3
The third function gets 2
The fourth functions gets 1
So as far as cognitive ability goes the entp mind devotes the least amount of energy to understanding their own feelings. That's not to say the feelings aren't there they just aren't classifiable.
"Fi: The fourth function of the ENTp is Fi, by which subjective feeling substantiates itself through various ethical processes. Since the ENTp type thrives in a world of logical and non-ethical and objective principles, it may be rendered difficult for this type to deconstruct and disassemble various levels of emotions, feelings, and moods in order to gauge a sense of their inner workings or how they habitually function. In result of this inability, expected behaviors should include a disability to understand ones own emotional state as it applies to self and others, difficulty understanding the emotional intentions of other, an inability to comprehend the amount of emotion needed to establish long lasting relationships, loosing interest in associating with people who are either too attentive or non-attentive, not knowing the right thing to say to people to avoid hurting them, accidentally insulting or offending people and not understanding why, and general lack of values or ethics. "
you're mixing up socionics and MBTI - in socionics the last letter gets changed so socionics ENTp is actually MBTI ENTJ and for ENTJs yes Fi is inferior function
for ENTPs Fi would be shadow function since Fe is one of their dominant ones, for ENTJs it is actually the inferior function - so both types should have difficulty with Fi - and yes ENTJs are also known to have capacity to just drop relationships and be insensitive in conversations
for ENTPs Fi would be shadow function since Fe is one of their dominant ones, for ENTJs it is actually the inferior function - so both types should have difficulty with Fi - and yes ENTJs are also known to have capacity to just drop relationships and be insensitive in conversations
Startic, your mother's agenda is not yours: she wants peace in the home, and she will place your sister's needs as high as yours, so she will ask you to be more balanced, and also the sister, if asked.....your father's agenda is not yours, he might want all sorts of things from his son (his mini-me) that he has not shared with you, unreasonable but true....your friends, your sister and even your counsellor have different agendas than yours, only you can work out where you need to go.
Troisi made a good comment: the first thing here is that you are looking for the root of your issues with a view to finding solutions: this is mature of you!
As a mother one of the things I have noticed with my son's issues is that he and his friends are physiologically maturing at different rates. This means (he is 12 so this isn't directly relevant to you but it's an example so bear with me) that the more mature boys are doing loads more testosterone, are physically larger and more angry, and this impacts on my little boy who has yet to catch up.
Maturation of personality is happening alongside this, and also at different rates for everyone, and in different directions as tertiary functions develop.
In that case it is hardly surprising that your relationships with friends and family shift and change. They may change back, they may not, but this is part of your journey.
I guess it might help to ask why you are getting so upset about the behaviour of others. Some of this will be too much testosterone (sorry to be personal!) , some will be emotional, the latter you can copntrol, the former will moderate with time....try to step back and intellectualise it more, your Ti places you well for this and your Fe is still a baby, needs time to grow...
A final plea: little sisters can be tiresome but try to be kind to yours. The adult world is a harsh place and siblings can be allies through life if you don't f*ck up your relationship with them early on.
Troisi made a good comment: the first thing here is that you are looking for the root of your issues with a view to finding solutions: this is mature of you!
As a mother one of the things I have noticed with my son's issues is that he and his friends are physiologically maturing at different rates. This means (he is 12 so this isn't directly relevant to you but it's an example so bear with me) that the more mature boys are doing loads more testosterone, are physically larger and more angry, and this impacts on my little boy who has yet to catch up.
Maturation of personality is happening alongside this, and also at different rates for everyone, and in different directions as tertiary functions develop.
In that case it is hardly surprising that your relationships with friends and family shift and change. They may change back, they may not, but this is part of your journey.
I guess it might help to ask why you are getting so upset about the behaviour of others. Some of this will be too much testosterone (sorry to be personal!) , some will be emotional, the latter you can copntrol, the former will moderate with time....try to step back and intellectualise it more, your Ti places you well for this and your Fe is still a baby, needs time to grow...
A final plea: little sisters can be tiresome but try to be kind to yours. The adult world is a harsh place and siblings can be allies through life if you don't f*ck up your relationship with them early on.
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