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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

Sorry it's so long >< I couldn't get the words out properly...


Remember that post a while back, about INTPs being labeled as "lazy geniuses" because, generally, we tend to produce good results without putting in much of the typical kinds of work?

Well... my personal story is this:

I don't study much, I tend to forget what I've read as soon as I turn the page. Almost as a rule, I leave "reviewing" to my teachers, and to normal class sessions leading up to exams... and then I have a cramming session the day before (or, on an unprepared day, the half hour before) a test.
And I get good grades. I hate saying this ... (but for the sake of my argument, I have to) but I was on the Deans list, my first semester in college. My GPA was a 3.83 ... I swore I was failing Biology but I got a B+ (thank God for grading curves, am I right??).

In any case ...
My point is that I don't think that those of us who follow my pattern of learning are really "lazy".
When I study, it's either because I really don't know the information, or it's the first time I'm encountering it. And whatever focus I have in the moment is powered by stress and nervous energy.

What if we're just not meant to give in to the kind of learning that requires conscious effort and repetition?
What if the stress of the situation sort of ... represses the memories we're supposed to be forming?

...we use unconventional study techniques that would appear "lazy" to the outside world but are actually more effective...

I tend to remember information more, and use it more effectively, when I am able to connect it to other things in my life and put it into my own terms -- to put it briefly, if I can just get the gist of a concept, I can ace the test. It's when I start getting into the details that I lose it all....

Anyone else agree? What are your thoughts?
 

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Definition of laziness
1. Unwillingness to work or use energy
2. Characterized by lack of effort or activity

Seeing how most of us don't really care to do work, or still manage to pass with minimal effort, I say most of us can still be considered as the epitome of laziness :p
 

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Sorry it's so long >< I couldn't get the words out properly...


Remember that post a while back, about INTPs being labeled as "lazy geniuses" because, generally, we tend to produce good results without putting in much of the typical kinds of work?

Well... my personal story is this:

I don't study much, I tend to forget what I've read as soon as I turn the page. Almost as a rule, I leave "reviewing" to my teachers, and to normal class sessions leading up to exams... and then I have a cramming session the day before (or, on an unprepared day, the half hour before) a test.
And I get good grades. I hate saying this ... (but for the sake of my argument, I have to) but I was on the Deans list, my first semester in college. My GPA was a 3.83 ... I swore I was failing Biology but I got a B+ (thank God for grading curves, am I right??).

In any case ...
My point is that I don't think that those of us who follow my pattern of learning are really "lazy".
When I study, it's either because I really don't know the information, or it's the first time I'm encountering it. And whatever focus I have in the moment is powered by stress and nervous energy.

What if we're just not meant to give in to the kind of learning that requires conscious effort and repetition?
What if the stress of the situation sort of ... represses the memories we're supposed to be forming?

I tend to remember information more, and use it more effectively, when I am able to connect it to other things in my life and put it into my own terms -- to put it briefly, if I can just get the gist of a concept, I can ace the test. It's when I start getting into the details that I lose it all....

Anyone else agree? What are your thoughts?

This. I remember reading an article on CNN talking about how the world is designed for extroverts.

Introverts run the world -- quietly - CNN.com

See this passage from that article:

Introverts make up a third to a half the population. That's one out of every two or three people you know.
ng it: How introverts succeed

Yet our most important institutions -- our schools and our workplaces -- are designed for extroverts. And we're living with a value system that I call the New Groupthink, where we believe that all creativity and productivity comes from an oddly gregarious place.Picture the typical classroom. When I was a kid, we sat in rows of desks, and we did most of our work autonomously. But nowadays many students sit in "pods" of desks with four or five students facing each other, and they work on countless group projects -- even in subjects like math and creative writing. Kids who prefer to work by themselves don't fit, and research by educational psychology professor Charles Meisgeier found that the majority of teachers believe the ideal student is an extrovert -- even though introverts tend to get higher grades, according to psychologist Adrian Furnham.


I agree with what you say 100%, since I SUCK at learning things in the "sharing" type of learning enviornment. I actually learn more in a lecture hall with a lot of people, since I can focus on the professor and block everyone out. But I learn best in a classroom size of 15 or less (I'm lucky to have that since not many people are doing the Computer Network Engineering program at my school) where I can interact with with the professor one on one, without having to "share".

:dry:


x01660​
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Definition of lazyness
1. Unwillingness to work or use energy
2. Characterized by lack of effort or activity

Seeing how most of us don't really care to do work, or still manage to pass with minimal effort, I say most of us can still be considered as the epitome of laziness :p
Your definition cuts me to the core ... that's me on most days =/

Well, the aim was to point out that even though we don't exert the physical energy (studying textbooks, researching new topics from class, going over the day's work each day) we still do the mental work. So we're only outwardly​ lazy.
 

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Your definition cuts me to the core ... that's me on most days =/

Well, the aim was to point out that even though we don't exert the physical energy (studying textbooks, researching new topics from class, going over the day's work each day) we still do the mental work. So we're only outwardly​ lazy.
The body is lazy, while the mind's gears are always running.
 

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Wait...it still sounds like a lazy genius situation. If you mean that we use unconventional study techniques that would appear "lazy" to the outside world but are actually more effective then I agree. I think half the reason I don't spend as much time studying as other people is because I am pretty efficient with my study habits. I notice people waste alot of time on memorization and focusing on repetition, rereading, etc. and they don't really get anywhere but then boost about how dedicated they are. It's not really about time so much as it's about strategy.

I am pretty good about applying a solid study strategy that I usually tailor to the priorities that I have identified in my professors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
...we use unconventional study techniques that would appear "lazy" to the outside world but are actually more effective...
That's exactly what I meant :)
 
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I relate to what you're saying as a non-INTP... The only other thing I'd add though is that for me there is still a distinction between cramming to get the grade and really learning something. My cramming is effectively making use of my really good short-term memory. But it's not a given that what's in short-term is going to get to long-term to be there a year later.

I tend to remember information more, and use it more effectively, when I am able to connect it to other things in my life and put it into my own terms -- to put it briefly, if I can just get the gist of a concept, I can ace the test. It's when I start getting into the details that I lose it all....
I really relate to this paragraph but find that that's independent to cramming for me. I think it just means that when I'm reading about something or hearing it in a lecture and get the concept, and immediately start linking it to other things, that requires me to study less overall. While I can get my brain to do a whole lot in a short space of time while cramming, it doesn't mean I'd really feel that that was making me competent or a master in that field. Forced regular study doesn't do that either because as you said, it seems to fight the memory-making process. Yeah I've been finding study tricky actually, like to be able to study what we're told to study I need to have some time dedicated to studying stuff that's a bit related but completely unexamined and uncared about by the powers that be at that time. But I feel really good about the knowledge I have and what my brain's doing when I'm doing relaxed, 'roundabout study.
 
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Not INTP but after going though CS and math degrees, I'll remark that the end result always boiled down mulling over the text book and forming my own connections between the material. i.e. professors taught in a linear manner without explaining the intuitions to which I tune out. Instead, I go to class for the beginning and end to listen to announcements and spend the rest of the time deriving / reinterpreting theorems.
 

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I am the same way but my "unique" approach to taking care of responsibilities also extends to other areas of my life.

In this case, I just admit that I'm lazy.

And not a genius lol.
 

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And not a genius lol.
Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree then it will go through its entire life believing that it is stupid.-Albert Einstein I believe (spelling might be off).

As for the lazy genius thing, I just have a really good memory and I can think quickly on my feet, really helps for picking things up quickly.
 

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I am pretty good about applying a solid study strategy that I usually tailor to the priorities that I have identified in my professors.
This is crucial. Once you find out your professors priorities in assignments and such, it's a wrap. However, I'm too paranoid so I end up wanting to chug all the info in in a perfectionist manner. Which does not end very well. Honestly, because of this, it doesn't even BEGIN very well since I'm afraid of all the work that I know I'm gonna feel the itch to do and which I know that I am too lazy to want to continue doing at some point.
 

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I always feel terrible because I always do the best on everything without really trying, which, in itself, sounds terrible.
I got a 98 on my science midterm this year (highest grade out of 300 students), without doing anything. I hadn't studied at all prior to the test. I got a 96 on a geometry test without studying. I also tend to make 100s on health class quizzes, but I'm not sure what that really says about me...
Of course, the careless mistakes are always going to appear, but I'm able to absorb the material without doing the normal study habits.
Why do people try to learn through staring at notes and memorizing them? I find that knowledge is best absorbed through practicing/applying it, or just thinking about it. Usually, using the 42 minutes that I have for class time to think about science is enough to absorb the material.
I've found that most S types that I know have problems with applying knowledge, such as thinking about how a math equation used to calculate the side of a triangle could be useful, so that might be it. Their strengths seem to lie in memorization, while I'm more interested in absorbing the material properly. I like knowing things.
 

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I don't typically study at all aside from reviewing for finals. Most of my classes are almost entirely essay-based, anyway.

As long as I make sure to keep up with the assigned readings, and as long as I attend class and absorb the lectures from my professors (who for the most part are excellent), I'm golden.
 

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Lazy, maybe, but geniuses... hmm :)

Too many people think that they are smarter than the majority. I'd say to call yourself a lazy genius is an oxymoron because in my opinion, geniuses don't merely get high scores on tests, but they actually do things. They invent things, write papers, advance in their field.

Lazy people who have at least competent intelligences, yes.
 

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What I think is that we aren't "lazy" when it comes to learning. We want to learn everything about EVERYTHING. This desire to learn gives us a holistic approach to learning something new.

The reason we are able to be so "lazy" about learning something new is we've probably already spent months and years thinking through similar ideas and concepts.

We simply think more than most types. We do it all the time. This alone allows us to learn new concepts and ideas somewhat effortlessly or "lazily" depending on how you want to define it.
 

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Lazy geniuses don't exist. Yeah, I said. It's a contradiction. In order to be considered a "genius," you need to be highly motivated. I think the term "lazy" comes from other people describing someone who failed to conform. The correct term should be delinquent genius. Although, feel free to be smart and lazy all you want.
 

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Lazy, maybe, but geniuses... hmm :)

Too many people think that they are smarter than the majority. I'd say to call yourself a lazy genius is an oxymoron because in my opinion, geniuses don't merely get high scores on tests, but they actually do things. They invent things, write papers, advance in their field.

Lazy people who have at least competent intelligences, yes.
I agree. I tend to stay away from taking pride in a "lazy genius" description. Using Ti comes naturally and taking too much pride in it neglects all our other functions that make us a well rounded person. I personally would rather hear someone praise me about Fe or Si traits I have developed.
 

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Compared to others, we may be considered "lazy geniuses." However, no comparisons should be made when it comes to personal growth, since in the end you are wholly responsible for yourself. If you know you aren't putting in the work that you're capable of, regardless of how that compares to other students, then I would surely hope you don't consider yourself a genius. You can fool others, but not yourself. And no, I'm not talking about just school. As long as you are either: a) working on your passion, or b) looking for your passion, then I believe the genius term can apply. But if you know that you are putting in a half assed job, who exactly are you fooling?

Just my 2c
 
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