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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I did the test twice and came back with INFj as a result even though I'm definitely an MBTI INFJ. Are the tests for socionics similar to MBTI, so that further reasearch is needed before being able to understand what type you definitely are? Or is it possible to be MBTI INFJ = Socionics INFj?
 

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Well the MBTI INFJ and Socionics INFj cognitive functions are totally different.

MBTI INFJ is Ni-Fe-Ti-Se.
Socionics INFj is Fi-Ne-Si-Te.

While there is debate as to how the functions correlate between Socionics and MBTI, it is also unusual to invert and reposition all of your functional preferences.

For other Socionics tests check the resources sticky thread: http://personalitycafe.com/socionics-forum/116599-socionics-tests-links-resources.html
 

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I did the test twice and came back with INFj as a result even though I'm definitely an MBTI INFJ. Are the tests for socionics similar to MBTI, so that further reasearch is needed before being able to understand what type you definitely are? Or is it possible to be MBTI INFJ = Socionics INFj?
Socionics
INFj = Fi-Ne
INFp = Ni-Fe

Aside from this though, I’m an MBTI INFJ and Socionics IEI-Fe and I met several IEIs and INFJs during my studies of MBTI and Socionics, one thing we all tend to have in common is that we doubt so much and we doubt ourselves so much that we never get the same result twice in tests. Another trait would be the ability to make the test turn out whatever the hell you want (INFJs can make crocodiles fly very very close to the ground).
The final conclusion is that ALL IEIs I ever met study the theory to type themselves.
Socionics also explains it with Ti mobilized as an interest in abstract thinking and a desire to be good at applying it (partially if not mostly subconsciously).
Now, question, how about learning how it works instead of relying on tests?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Socionics
INFj = Fi-Ne
INFp = Ni-Fe

Aside from this though, I’m an MBTI INFJ and Socionics IEI-Fe and I met several IEIs and INFJs during my studies of MBTI and Socionics, one thing we all tend to have in common is that we doubt so much and we doubt ourselves so much that we never get the same result twice in tests. Another trait would be the ability to make the test turn out whatever the hell you want (INFJs can make crocodiles fly very very close to the ground).
The final conclusion is that ALL IEIs I ever met study the theory to type themselves.
Socionics also explains it with Ti mobilized as an interest in abstract thinking and a desire to be good at applying it (partially if not mostly subconsciously).
Now, question, how about learning how it works instead of relying on tests?
Thank you for the explanation. And yes, that's why I asked the question if it was better to study the theory behind it, since that's also how I learned what my actual MBTI type is. The tests just frustrate and confuse me since I also tend to get mixed results a lot. Off to study the theory now.
 

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Thank you for the explanation. And yes, that's why I asked the question if it was better to study the theory behind it, since that's also how I learned what my actual MBTI type is. The tests just frustrate and confuse me since I also tend to get mixed results a lot. Off to study the theory now.
Feel free to ask me if you want, my enneagram integration goes via teaching, so, anything I know, I will gladly explain. You can watch my vids to begin with socionics if you want.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Feel free to ask me if you want, my enneagram integration goes via teaching, so, anything I know, I will gladly explain. You can watch my vids to begin with socionics if you want.
Thank you. Do you have any links? Or keywords to put into youtube/google?
 

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welcome to the club, repost repost

Yes this is due to socionics putting Fe as a performer, awkwardly enough I do it as well and more but my performance face is optional, I have full control over it and I do it actively when I want to keep people in a fun mood. I act quite like beta quadra though, it feels like it is written for me, socionics tests me as INFp (INFJ) as well but I know that I am not, well I am in the description sense but I am not in the functional stacking sense. Not only I am highly Fi, I am also an anti-Fe, meaning yes I disregard it precisely because I find it fake and manipulating. Socionics might be well studied and an extensive study but I think the descriptions fail miserably. Everyone seems to be stuck at how gorgeous the theory sounds but I honestly think if it is not applicable to people, something is very wrong.

Like OrangeAppled says I believe that the enneagrams make a huge difference. Socionics base the theories on functions but I feel like these theories are affected by the person's observations as well. While I, a sx/sp 4w5 478 archetype act quite like beta quadra I find 9w1 INFPs quite delta quadra and very different then how I am, very serious too. Just like my INFp (INFJ) friends who I believe act strongly as delta quadra.

I think another reason is if you check the descriptions of Ni as a first functions of INFp(INFJ) you will see that it is quite a mixture of INFJs and INFPs, and perhaps much more INFPs, unless you have ever met an outspoken INFJ, I haven't :p (forum doesn't count) I feel like socionics is not able to separate INFPs and INFJs perhaps especially when their functions are not aligned. Yes I know Ni is my critical parent but the fact that it comes as high as right after my Ne makes me think I might not be as quite explainable as an INFP with FiNeSi order, that might also be telling about my experiences which I can relate and you guys refer as -Ni-

I also find the descriptions and keywords to be highly misplaced, say romantic is our keyword in MBTI and everything there is really and in socionics it is switched and used for INFps(INFJ) while the keyword empath is used for INFjs (INFP). Even the poster boy/girl lists of each group.

I also find the descriptions conflicting a lot. Again, if INFps(INFJ) are outspoken, rebellious and aggressive and all how is it not interfering with their performer face and keeping a positive atmosphere for their own well being?

Well I have been discussing this here and there so I won't go in detail but just this table tells a lot in my opinion.

Also I found more details from the experiment mentioned in the wiki article on j/p switch.

Introduction into Socionics you can see the results under Method 3 in the two tables. Of course there is room for not trusting the experiment either as I have come across a lot so called empirical junk science and I have no idea about the credibility but I think discarding every observance just because it defies the theory would also be fallacy in my opinion. Again these are about descriptions and not functions, my point.

Also, I am not sure if anyone would like to talk about this matter but what do you think of Jung's own type?

We proposed the 16 descriptions of the Keirsey types to 108 socionists (this means, each of the 108 read ALL THE 16 descriptions), and we asked them to identify the socionic types in these descriptions.
The table below represents the result of this experiment:



And the next table represents one more result of this experiment. We asked the participants to indicate their own types, and to recognize their own types in these descriptions



I think there is a large gap in socionics and it is not limited to INFP/INFJ.
 

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Another forum member and I posted a few PerC member polls to study MBTI<-->Socionics type conversions.

(Three of these are liked in my signature.)

The results were that 50-70% of people converted retaining three letters, but flipping the last j/p (ex: INFP-INFj).
A somewhat smaller percentage 20-40% converted retaining all four letters (ex: INFP -> INFp)
And a small percentage converted to a completely different type (ex: INFP -> ENFj)

So all those colorful tables that were posted above don't at all align with the results of the conversion polls. Why is this? I don't know, but I thought I'd bring it to attention that the type conversion data gathered on PerC so far doesn't match the "experimental" results in the above post.
 

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Another forum member and I posted a few PerC member polls to study MBTI<-->Socionics type conversions.

(Three of these are liked in my signature.)

The results were that 50-70% of people converted retaining three letters, but flipping the last j/p (ex: INFP-INFj).
A somewhat smaller percentage 20-40% converted retaining all four letters (ex: INFP -> INFp)
And a small percentage converted to a completely different type (ex: INFP -> ENFj)

So all those colorful tables that were posted above don't at all align with the results of the conversion polls. Why is this? I don't know, but I thought I'd bring it to attention that the type conversion data gathered on PerC so far doesn't match the "experimental" results in the above post.
Hi @cyamitide, in the above experiment all the subjects were chosen among the people who did not know about the theories so that when they read the descriptions of the profiles they could make more objective judgement on deciding which MBTI profile sounds like which socionics profile. And again, they were tested on the spot. They actually explain their reasoning for picking this method here: Introduction into Socionics

I have believed that I should be INFj for long and I just thought socionics did not make sense and I left it there until I read about beta quadra and saw how much it was on spot, not only with my experience and with the feedback I get from my friends. Then I have read the INFp profile and only then socionics began to talk to me.

There are also too many people that will go with the theory till the end, that is the alignment of the functions and for most here I have talked with they don't care about descriptions and they want to leave it at the theory level. I think the Ti trait plays a part too :)) I haven't given any thought on people mistyping themselves with MBTI because it worked for me, it was magical even when I first got my result, but now I see that when your experience does not fit that narrow pattern, you begin to question the system. So as long as you don't feel strong enough,, you don't question.

Another reason might be INFJs and INFPs already having a great deal of mistyped people. I am not saying they are but there are tons of threads especially in the INFJ forum specifically on this matter :)

So yes I would expect that they don't align with the above study which tries to eliminate these factors.


It is a study on whether the profiles and descriptions reflect the personalities mentioned in both theories, it is not function wise but I think that is the problem. As I have mentioned above I am definitely a Fi-Ne user but when I work it up from there to profiles and quadras it fails to reflect me -while- INFp and beta quadra fits like a glove.

I am sorry to be repetitive, but take Fi of INFj (not the function itself but when it is the dominant function of INFj )

"EIIs are very attuned to the psychological atmosphere of interaction and to their own feelings towards people and things. They treasure deep feelings of attachment and strive to deepen emotional bonds between people and harmonize relationships. When those people that the EII is close to suffer emotionally, the EII will do everything in her power to raise the emotional condition in the individual, often at the EII's expense.

EIIs are very capable of "sizing people up". They rely heavily on their instincts to understand the inner feelings of an individual. They are very empathetic people and find it very easy to feel with others. This makes them very sensitive to the moods of people, and they treat them the way they want to be treated, that is, with respect."

Empathy and need for emotional deep bonds sounds like both INFJ and INFP but this description sounds too much like MBTI Fe. So it is not I don't understand functions alignment and the theory but when the profiles and quadras come into the picture the descriptions get vague and even switched.

Well as have been suggested by a few people, the enneagrams also play a part and that is the only satisfying answer to this all so far. But if my enneagrams make me acr quite like beta quadra in romance, group behavior and profile and if I can't relate to delta quadra and even overlook it, criticizing it for lacking the drive, the romance and putting too much emphasis on practicality, well then whether enneagrams or not I feel not easy to type myself with delta quadra/INFj
 

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And let's not even get involved in the fiasco that are the official "descriptions". Socio ISFj sounds just like MBTI INFP. No, really, the similarity is uncanny. Meanwhile if you compare the descriptions between socio INFj and its MBTI counterpart(INFP), you can see quite a chasm between those two. Really, wtf is with that?

This P <-> J switch is just crazy. Why did MBTI do it again?
 

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And let's not even get involved in the fiasco that are the official "descriptions". Socio ISFj sounds just like MBTI INFP. No, really, the similarity is uncanny. Meanwhile if you compare the descriptions between socio INFj and its MBTI counterpart(INFP), you can see quite a chasm between those two. Really, wtf is with that?

This P <-> J switch is just crazy. Why did MBTI do it again?
MBTI's P/J correspond to your extraverted function. For example, ISTJ uses an extraverted Judging function instead of an extraverted Perceiving function.
I think it's easier and more reliable to test for Rational/Irrational (p/j), since use of the Creative is sometimes more difficult to differentiate (to which the final letter in MBTI types would correspond in the case of all Introverts).

I did the test twice and came back with INFj as a result even though I'm definitely an MBTI INFJ. Are the tests for socionics similar to MBTI, so that further reasearch is needed before being able to understand what type you definitely are? Or is it possible to be MBTI INFJ = Socionics INFj?
I don't like tests that use the 4-letter style for Socionics. It suggests that they're judging your type in a way too similar to the MBTI system: individual dichotomies. It's much better to either work systematically (e.g. testing Rational/Irrational, then Base, then Creative), or just determining your valued functions and strong functions to correspond with a type. The 3-letter style is more efficient and doesn't lead people to incorrectly translate between MBTI & Socionics so often.
 

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Socionics
INFj = Fi-Ne
INFp = Ni-Fe

Aside from this though, I’m an MBTI INFJ and Socionics IEI-Fe and I met several IEIs and INFJs during my studies of MBTI and Socionics, one thing we all tend to have in common is that we doubt so much and we doubt ourselves so much that we never get the same result twice in tests. Another trait would be the ability to make the test turn out whatever the hell you want (INFJs can make crocodiles fly very very close to the ground).
The final conclusion is that ALL IEIs I ever met study the theory to type themselves.
Socionics also explains it with Ti mobilized as an interest in abstract thinking and a desire to be good at applying it (partially if not mostly subconsciously).
Now, question, how about learning how it works instead of relying on tests?
Interesting! I'm
MBTI INFj
Socionics INFp Fe (IEI ethical subtype), too.
I also am 3w4 and 4w3 in the enneagram, which are the two most common ennea types for the IEI Fe subtype.

I have the doubt in common with you, but my most painful weakness is my weak Te - just like the Filatova IEI Socionics description says:

Te – Painful function. Distancing into the realm of his images and contemplations helps the IEI to hide from reality that often proves to be too harsh and cruel for him.

His professional activity and productivity are unpredictable, since his capacity for work highly depends on his internal state: short flashes of energetic activity alternate with periods of prolonged inaction. As a rule, he his energy drive is lowered, and he therefore he finds it difficult to continuously exert himself. The inherent to him asthenia – perceived weakness, exhaustion, and low energy – is frequently compensated for by the need for a prolonged night sleep. For this very reason, without the necessary moral support, he frequently finds himself at a lower social position than would correspond with his abilities. Thus IEI is prone to regard energetic people, whom hold a higher social status, with a secret sense of envy, to consider that life has wronged him, and, involuntarily trying to justify himself, he seeks external factors that could be faulted for his misfortunes. Meanwhile, he comforts himself in the fact that his high sensitivity and brittleness of psyche, refinement of his principles and ideals, do not permit him to act by the same methods as others. Thus, he justifies his own passivity by viewing himself above the surrounding world, thereby psychologically shielding himself. He finds it difficult to accept responsibility for everything that happens to him. He prefers to lay responsibility on external factors, especially if things are going badly. IEI rarely takes up routine work of any kind, and if he does he may try to shirk from it and carry it out negligently.
 

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I did the test twice and came back with INFj as a result even though I'm definitely an MBTI INFJ. Are the tests for socionics similar to MBTI, so that further reasearch is needed before being able to understand what type you definitely are? Or is it possible to be MBTI INFJ = Socionics INFj?
While the Socionics Subtype descriptions are astonishingly accurate in my opinion, I believe the Socionics test to be heavily flawed.
I am INFj in MBTI, and IEI Fe in Socionics.
I test INFj in MBTI because I am slightly more planned and structured than flexible and unstructured (or more precisely: I am very organized/ structured/ planned/ focussed/ decisive/ optionless in my brain, but find organization and deadlines in my outside world rather difficult to master and tiring.)
As I tick slightly more "organized" answers than "unorganized" answers in the Socionics test, too, I test INFj here, too: and how could it be otherwise: how could they tell me I was "flexible" (P) after ticking more "planned" (J) answers. However, the Socionics INFj does not describe me at all, whereas the INFp Fe decribes me perfectly.
To this day, I don't understand why the Ni Fe Ti Se functions translate as INFp in Socionics - the "p" is only confusing and somehow does not fit with the cognitive functions. Doesn't make any sense to make Ni Fe Ti Se the INFp and Fi Ne Si Te the INFj.

So my advice is: test your cognitive functions rather than MBTI or Socionics type - then try to find the same functions in Socionics, read the descriptions, and see if that fits.
 

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While the Socionics Subtype descriptions are astonishingly accurate in my opinion, I believe the Socionics test to be heavily flawed.
I am INFj in MBTI, and IEI Fe in Socionics.
I test INFj in MBTI because I am slightly more planned and structured than flexible and unstructured (or more precisely: I am very organized/ structured/ planned/ focussed/ decisive/ optionless in my brain, but find organization and deadlines in my outside world rather difficult to master and tiring.)
As I tick slightly more "organized" answers than "unorganized" answers in the Socionics test, too, I test INFj here, too: and how could it be otherwise: how could they tell me I was "flexible" (P) after ticking more "planned" (J) answers. However, the Socionics INFj does not describe me at all, whereas the INFp Fe decribes me perfectly.
To this day, I don't understand why the Ni Fe Ti Se functions translate as INFp in Socionics - the "p" is only confusing and somehow does not fit with the cognitive functions. Doesn't make any sense to make Ni Fe Ti Se the INFp and Fi Ne Si Te the INFj.

So my advice is: test your cognitive functions rather than MBTI or Socionics type - then try to find the same functions in Socionics, read the descriptions, and see if that fits.
P and J in mbti and in socionics mean different things.
In socionics, the j are types that have a leading judging (thinking/feeling) function.
Types that end with p have leading percieving (sensing/intuiting) function.
J types are rational and p types are irrational.
Read this: Rationality vs. Irrationality (J vs. P)
 

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P and J in mbti and in socionics mean different things.
In socionics, the j are types that have a leading judging (thinking/feeling) function.
Types that end with p have leading percieving (sensing/intuiting) function.
J types are rational and p types are irrational.
Read this: Rationality vs. Irrationality (J vs. P)
Interesting, thanks ! I'm more knowledgable in MBTI than Socionics, obviously ;-)
 

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As you continue to study socionics you will see the many, many faults in the MBTI system. ;P

And you may as well bump into your dual one day. Who knows?
Thanks for the comment!
So I will continue to study Socionics ;-)

I already had the great honor and fortune to bump into him at an alumni event - I'm IEI Fe 3w4 and he's SLE Se 3w2. It was magical. Unbelievable how effortlessly we could talk together, understand each other. We have different interests/ hobbies, but share the same humour, the same love for people, the same ambition, the same witty- and flirtyness, the same "open-ness", the same enthousiasm, the same perceptiveness. He gets drunk on Se and entertaining people but beneath it, he observes and sees people and reality just as sharply as I do: how I love this ! - I feel so un-alone when he is in the same room, because there is finally someone who lives in the same reality as I do (or so it seems). We are both very empathetic and encouraging with other people. Quite rational in our way of analysing things. I spend much more time by myself and have to prepare/understand everything before I can let go, but in the end, we both have the same lust for adventure, the unkonwn, and indulgence of the senses.
He makes me contemplate/worry less and cheers me up, where I help him see who he really is and what he is really here for.
I get in touch with my Ti much easier when he is around - it calms me down, slows down my heart-rate, and brings me to a place where don't have to feel so much anymore. I certainly inspire the value of loyalty, compassion, and genuinely caring for others.
I love ENTPs (my perfect mbti-match), but this is much better - we are only friends though, he's married to an ISTj (socionics)!

Me-moment ;-) But I wanted to illustrate how duality looks like to me :)
 

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Thanks for the comment!
So I will continue to study Socionics ;-)

I already had the great honor and fortune to bump into him at an alumni event - I'm IEI Fe 3w4 and he's SLE Se 3w2. It was magical. Unbelievable how effortlessly we could talk together, understand each other. We have different interests/ hobbies, but share the same humour, the same love for people, the same ambition, the same witty- and flirtyness, the same "open-ness", the same enthousiasm, the same perceptiveness. He gets drunk on Se and entertaining people but beneath it, he observes and sees people and reality just as sharply as I do: how I love this ! - I feel so un-alone when he is in the same room, because there is finally someone who lives in the same reality as I do (or so it seems). We are both very empathetic and encouraging with other people. Quite rational in our way of analysing things. I spend much more time by myself and have to prepare/understand everything before I can let go, but in the end, we both have the same lust for adventure, the unkonwn, and indulgence of the senses.
He makes me contemplate/worry less and cheers me up, where I help him see who he really is and what he is really here for.
I get in touch with my Ti much easier when he is around - it calms me down, slows down my heart-rate, and brings me to a place where don't have to feel so much anymore. I certainly inspire the value of loyalty, compassion, and genuinely caring for others.
I love ENTPs (my perfect mbti-match), but this is much better - we are only friends though, he's married to an ISTj (socionics)!

Me-moment ;-) But I wanted to illustrate how duality looks like to me :)
Oh, that sounds like duality alright! And the fact that he's married to his mirage is almost a stereotype.

But yah, that pretty much describes the way I get along with the many duals I've encountered in my (short) life.

You'll get the hang of socionics soon enough, and suddenly it'll be easier to type people. Trust me on this one. ;P

If you have any questions, everyone here could give you some insight on whatever you need. And make sure to hang out at the Beta quadra thread; we need more people to properly rule the world. Drop by at any moment, we will try to make you queen of some sort of land. Maybe Asia? It's a nice place to reign over.
 
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