Mind excercise: how do you know whether you're Introvert or Extravert?

2833 Views 154 Replies 19 Participants Last post by tarmonk, 1 h ago

tarmonk

Discussion Starter · 12 d ago (Edited)

I want to play a game

Assumptions
Lets assume we're talking in Jungian model context, since I'm becoming pretty sure this model has better potential to describe this aspect of psyche compared to so-called modern ones. Though it doesn't mean like you have to be expert of Jung theories to participate - I am neither by myself.

The goal of this game is not to argue over which theory anyone prefers to believe in. Lets use the following statements as axioms - taken as truth to conclude other things, and not to be argued about. If anyone finds I've stated those axioms below incorrectly, please suggest corrections and I'll improve them. Also you can suggest new axioms to help to reduce discussion over trivial aspects that won't help to serve the goals of the game.

Statements/axioms
* How social anyone is, has very low potential to describe the essence of E/I

* Gaining and losing energy around people - high potential that it depends on other factors that might be type unrelated, has low potential to describe E or I. At best, it could be a "symptom" not the cause.

* Positive investment in people and interpersonal aspects has no correlation with E/I. At best, it has moderate potential to describe F.

* If your concious mind operates with impressions of objects instead of objects themselves, there's high potential of leaning towards Introversion

* If your concious mind operates with objects instead of impressions of objects, there's high potential of leaning towards Extraversion

Question
Describe and reason how have you determined and decided whether you're introvert or extravert?

Consider the axioms above - example, it's an "invalid" response to tell "I'm introvert because I'm a quiet person / I'm extravert bc I like to party" - because such properties don't really describe this psychological phenomenon. We wouldn't need a complex theory only to realize we're either loud or quiet persons - we'd see that obviously by ourselves, right

Please state also the type you identify yourself.

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DOGSOUP

· #2 · 12 d ago (Edited)

I think it was @Red Panda who pointed out that my willingness to change things/influence others was based on me wanting to control their impact/influence on myself i.e. resisting it and changing it to something I saw as better. Mostly I wouldn't even want to do that, but I feel like I have to.

And I have spoken about my impressions here before so you know I agree with that

My sociability changes constantly, but I do enjoy my own company the most. Just grew up that way. Unlike the stereotype, I GAIN energy from social interaction (especially if it goes smoothly) but lose it just as quickly. I like deciding what do to by myself.

Jung would probably type me as Introverted Sensing type. @Grandmaster Yoda typed me as Introverted Feeling type because I found this forum environment too extroverted lol (and maybe partly trolling... idk).

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Allostasis

· #3 · 12 d ago

I feel driven to deal and work with reality as it is, adjust my impressions to match it, and comprehend it as fully as possible. By "objects" in the context of T function, I do not mean "external standards" or thoughts/opinions of other people, even though I am very much open to considering them as well if they have any merit. I mean any content that is processible by means of an intellect.

I like when I am wrong. It is exciting as it means that there is an opportunity for me to improve my understanding. I give a lot of benefits of the doubt and stay positive, trying to cooperate and understand things and look for workable strategies before trying to judge/fix them. I hate jumping to conclusions without having a clear understanding of the situation.

I thought at first that I was a jungian introvert due to my assertive traits and preferences for leadership/control, but the motivation behind that is not about shielding myself / controlling the impact on me, but the maximization/actualization of the reality's potential. It is not about my ego or how I feel usually.

I do derive energy from social interaction, but not always and not only from it. I don't need other people.

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DOGSOUP

· #4 · 12 d ago

Allostasis said:
I like when I am wrong. It is exciting as it means that there is an opportunity for me to improve my understanding. I give a lot of benefits of the doubt and stay positive, trying to cooperate and understand things and look for workable strategies before trying to judge/fix them. I hate jumping to conclusions without having a clear understanding of the situation.

We're complete opposites lol. This is hilarious.

black_jester_3647

· #5 · 12 d ago

I process alone. It often helps me to share a probelm, get insight / feedback, but ultimately I take even that and process it alone. I am extremely verbal, so the process of writing out a problem or sharing it is indeed all of the processing I need at times and I answer my own question simply by thinking through how to communicate it. Te to the rescue.

I can become overwhelmed by a busy environment. At times I enjoy loud music and get a lot done and yada yada, but there are also times where I can't have any music or outside noise. Mostly I need quiet. I can drive for hours in the car in silence, just me and my thoughts and the environment outside. I really enjoy that actually. No music. No nothing but driving in silence. At night is even better because there's less stimulus.

I keep things to myself. If it's useful or I think someone else would appreciate it I might share, but I typically decide not to share or don't even think to share. Why would I? It's not necessary. Even if I want to share, if i don't have meaningful content to complement what is out there or someone to receive it or a way to affect change...why bother? Sharing like this is possibly useful, but I think mostly it is a good exercise for me to engage in.

I love being around people, and really enjoy people. I love meeting people. I think this is exciting. I also think it's exhausting at times. I like to meet about 1 person. LOL. I will spend time talking to that one person and get to know them. I don't want to meet a lot of people. If there's a lot of time elapsing and I'm not mingling, I can meet more people.

I don't overly care what the group thinks. I like to decide for myself, to figure out for myself, and am OK being in opposition to the group. I may not be outwardly opposed, but inwardly I'm in disagreement and will continue to pursue my "correct" idea until I can prove or disprove it. I have a neutral relationship to the group most of the time. If they are not inconveniencing me and I'm not inconveniencing them, it's all good. Depending on what's going on, I may want to help the group or even take over and lead the group. Typically I will push the group. Steer. If I'm happy with direction, why interefere? If I'm not happy, I will speak up and can often change in a way that continues forward progress but also adjusts to what I would consider an improved outcome or approach.

I'm in my own little world most of the time.

I will say that some of this is tricky because I am also an Sx dom which would influence my social interactions to the 1 to 1 interaction style, which is an introverted tendency.

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Ms. Aligned

· #6 · 12 d ago

I self type as an INTJ.

The way my introvertedness shows is a bit different than the descriptions. For example, I should hate groups and prefer one on one conversations, but I don't. One on ones are demanding, require more focus and attention whereas you can hide in groups and move in and out of them more freely so it's less draining. Or I prefer big cities over small towns because again, you can become invisible.

I need a significant amount of alone time and will just zone out if I don't get it. My ex husband used to put his hand on my shoulder or something when we were living together. I'd be so stuck in my head that it would actually startle me and I'd get angry. We would be sitting on the couch watching TV together, and he'd say something to me, "Oh, what happened, I wasn't paying attention..."

I could talk to an entire auditorium full of strangers no problem (as long as I'm highly knowledgeable about the subject), but speaking in front of a group of peers (wedding/funeral, anything more intimate) forget it.

While I'm very social online, I am barely social at all irl. And I absolutely hate having attention turned on me, positive or negative, acknowledgments or any kind of public conflict. If I'm out of the house, I usually have earbuds in to drown everyone else out, and let people know not to try chatting me up waiting in lines or anything.

The only time I'm actually really social is when I'm drunk. Otherwise I can go hours in the presence of others without ever saying a word.

For me, it really is that I get drained having to focus my attention on others and retreat into my own mind if I don't' get enough alone time.

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Allostasis

· #7 · 12 d ago

Ms. Aligned said:
I self type as an INTJ.

The way my introvertedness shows is a bit different than the descriptions. For example, I should hate groups and prefer one on one conversations, but I don't. One on ones are demanding, require more focus and attention whereas you can hide in groups and move in and out of them more freely so it's less draining. Or I prefer big cities over small towns because again, you can become invisible.

I need a significant amount of alone time and will just zone out if I don't get it. My ex husband used to put his hand on my shoulder or something when we were living together. I'd be so stuck in my head that it would actually startle me and I'd get angry. We would be sitting on the couch watching TV together, and he'd say something to me, "Oh, what happened, I wasn't paying attention..."

I could talk to an entire auditorium full of strangers no problem (as long as I'm highly knowledgeable about the subject), but speaking in front of a group of peers (wedding/funeral, anything more intimate) forget it.

While I'm very social online, I am barely social at all irl. And I absolutely hate having attention turned on me, positive or negative, acknowledgments or any kind of public conflict. If I'm out of the house, I usually have earbuds in to drown everyone else out, and let people know not to try chatting me up waiting in lines or anything.

The only time I'm actually really social is when I'm drunk. Otherwise I can go hours in the presence of others without ever saying a word.

For me, it really is that I get drained having to focus my attention on others and retreat into my own mind if I don't' get enough alone time.

black_jester_3647 said:
I process alone. It often helps me to share a probelm, get insight / feedback, but ultimately I take even that and process it alone. I am extremely verbal, so the process of writing out a problem or sharing it is indeed all of the processing I need at times and I answer my own question simply by thinking through how to communicate it. Te to the rescue.

I can become overwhelmed by a busy environment. At times I enjoy loud music and get a lot done and yada yada, but there are also times where I can't have any music or outside noise. Mostly I need quiet. I can drive for hours in the car in silence, just me and my thoughts and the environment outside. I really enjoy that actually. No music. No nothing but driving in silence. At night is even better because there's less stimulus.

I keep things to myself. If it's useful or I think someone else would appreciate it I might share, but I typically decide not to share or don't even think to share. Why would I? It's not necessary. Even if I want to share, if i don't have meaningful content to complement what is out there or someone to receive it or a way to affect change...why bother? Sharing like this is possibly useful, but I think mostly it is a good exercise for me to engage in.

I love being around people, and really enjoy people. I love meeting people. I think this is exciting. I also think it's exhausting at times. I like to meet about 1 person. LOL. I will spend time talking to that one person and get to know them. I don't want to meet a lot of people. If there's a lot of time elapsing and I'm not mingling, I can meet more people.

I don't overly care what the group thinks. I like to decide for myself, to figure out for myself, and am OK being in opposition to the group. I may not be outwardly opposed, but inwardly I'm in disagreement and will continue to pursue my "correct" idea until I can prove or disprove it. I have a neutral relationship to the group most of the time. If they are not inconveniencing me and I'm not inconveniencing them, it's all good. Depending on what's going on, I may want to help the group or even take over and lead the group. Typically I will push the group. Steer. If I'm happy with direction, why interefere? If I'm not happy, I will speak up and can often change in a way that continues forward progress but also adjusts to what I would consider an improved outcome or approach.

I'm in my own little world most of the time.

I will say that some of this is tricky because I am also an Sx dom which would influence my social interactions to the 1 to 1 interaction style, which is an introverted tendency.

Not sure if it is going to be harsh, but please re-read the first post (the part about axioms) if you haven't done that yet.
How social or not social you are isn't very relevant in relation to what extraversion/introversion is in the scope of this thread.

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black_jester_3647

· #8 · 12 d ago

Allostasis said:
Not sure if it is going to be harsh, but please re-read the first post (the part about axioms) if you haven't done that yet.
How social or not social you are isn't very relevant in relation to what extraversion/introversion is in the scope of this thread.

I think that "low correlation" does not mean irrelevant, and also this is within a greater context, rather than an isolated trait of personality.

I think of objects almost entirely as impressions, and everything is an impression--people, emotions, pathways, intersections, all of it. I zoom into any one particular impression to make it something tangible and explicable.

Ta-Da!

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black_jester_3647

· #9 · 12 d ago

black_jester_3647 said:
I think that "low correlation" does not mean irrelevant, and also this is within a greater context, rather than an isolated trait of personality.

I think of objects almost entirely as impressions, and everything is an impression--people, emotions, pathways, intersections, all of it. I zoom into any one particular impression to make it something tangible and explicable.

Ta-Da!

Also I think this better describes intuition than introversion IMO. I think that's what intuition is, impressions. Knowing without knowing. When I "zoom in" I can see that I know. Without zooming in I just know that I know. Zooming is optional.

Until you called us out on it, I hadn't really thought about the definition very much. Curious how @Glacius would respond to this.

@Allostasis , @tarmonk

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Allostasis

· #10 · 12 d ago

black_jester_3647 said:
I think that "low correlation" does not mean irrelevant, and also this is within a greater context, rather than an isolated trait of personality.

I think I said "isn't very relevant", not "irrelevant". If you are going to pick on my words, then do it properly, at least.

I think of objects almost entirely as impressions, and everything is an impression--people, emotions, pathways, intersections, all of it. I zoom into any one particular impression to make it something tangible and explicable.

Ta-Da!

Now that's better. I wouldn't say it is exactly intuition or introversion. It is your attempt at explaining your introversion while adhering to the outlined axioms, which is already valuable. There is no right or wrong answer.

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Ms. Aligned

· #11 · 12 d ago

Allostasis said:
Not sure if it is going to be harsh, but please re-read the first post (the part about axioms) if you haven't done that yet.
How social or not social you are isn't very relevant in relation to what extraversion/introversion is in the scope of this thread.

I'll be honest the OP is a little confusing for me so I focused on this:

tarmonk said:
Describe and reason how have you determined and decided whether you're introvert or extravert?

tarmonk said:
...because such properties don't really describe this psychological phenomenon.

My post was less about my social abilities and more to showcase the scenarios in which I become mentally taxed, and the result of it. I'll just shut down as though it's a need, not a preference.

I guess what I was trying to say was, I take in so much information all the freaking time that without figuring out some way to minimize it, and/or have time to process everything....I don't really choose to be an introvert, my brain will just do it for me. But I was using the most common examples I come across. 🤷‍♀️

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black_jester_3647

· #12 · 12 d ago

Allostasis said:
I think I said "isn't very relevant", not "irrelevant". If you are going to pick on my words, then do it properly, at least.

Now that's better. I wouldn't say it is exactly intuition or introversion. It is your attempt at explaining your introversion while adhering to the outlined axioms, which is already valuable. There is no right or wrong answer.

It also sounds like from your above post that despite having Ni, you prefer to deal with the concrete aspects, probably the Te leading, an extroverted leader function which makes sense it would lead to a primarily exroverted personality. Interesting.

Squirt

· #13 · 12 d ago

tarmonk said:
Question
Describe and reason how have you determined and decided whether you're introvert or extravert?

Type: INTJ. I was typed from standard MBTI tests administered in school but questioned it later. I self-typed after reading more in-depth about the theory and found INTJ (MBTI) still fit best, and even more so Jung's concepts of introversion and introverted intuition in particular.

A succinct comparison Jung made was that the extrovert's motto would be "internalize all without and shape everything within," while the introvert's motto would be "externalize all within, and shape everything without."

I could easily identify my behavior and disposition as the introverted nature, and with further inquiry, it is confirmed over and over again. It is a propensity to see myself as a constant, and the world around me a violation of that constant if it affects me too deeply. It must always be held at arms-length (as impressions, to keep with the axioms

), or some critical dissolve may occur.

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DOGSOUP

· #14 · 12 d ago (Edited)

black_jester_3647 said:
Also I think this better describes intuition than introversion IMO. I think that's what intuition is, impressions. Knowing without knowing. When I "zoom in" I can see that I know. Without zooming in I just know that I know. Zooming is optional.

Tarmonk and I (and maybe others) have discussed about introverted sensing and impressions on this forum in the past, but at least on my part I gave up on it because there wasn't much interest in the topic, lol.

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black_jester_3647

· #15 · 12 d ago

Ms. Aligned said:
I guess what I was trying to say was, I take in so much information all the freaking time that without figuring out some way to minimize it, and/or have time to process everything....I don't really choose to be an introvert, my brain will just do it for me. But I was using the most common examples I come across. 🤷‍♀️

I've been thinking about this lately. INTJ is an information consumer, big time. With developed Ni and Se you're taking in extreme amounts of completely complementary / different information, so your ability to consume is tremendous.

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Squirt

· #16 · 12 d ago

black_jester_3647 said:
It also sounds like from your above post that despite having Ni, you prefer to deal with the concrete aspects, probably the Te leading, an extroverted leader function which makes sense it would lead to a primarily exroverted personality. Interesting.

It seems like introversion/extraversion often get confused with the functions (thinking, feeling, sensing, intuition) in terms of assigning behavioral markers.

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DOGSOUP

· #17 · 12 d ago

Squirt said:
It is a propensity to see myself as a constant, and the world around me a violation of that constant if it affects me too deeply.

Yes, exactly. Violation.

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black_jester_3647

· #18 · 12 d ago

Squirt said:
I could easily identify my behavior and disposition as the introverted nature, and with further inquiry, it is confirmed over and over again. It is a propensity to see myself as a constant, and the world around me a violation of that constant if it affects me too deeply. It must always be held at arms-length (as impressions, to keep with the axioms ), or some critical dissolve may occur.

Great description. We do gatekeeping, constantly monitoring what comes in or out. Like a closed system in a volatile environment. The closed system is constantly seeking balance, either by excluding the outside or changing it.

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Allostasis

· #19 · 12 d ago

Ms. Aligned said:
I'll be honest the OP is a little confusing for me so I focused on this:

My post was less about my social abilities and more to showcase the scenarios in which I become mentally taxed, and the result of it. I'll just shut down as though it's a need, not a preference.

I guess what I was trying to say was, I take in so much information all the freaking time that without figuring out some way to minimize it, and/or have time to process everything....I don't really choose to be an introvert, my brain will just do it for me. But I was using the most common examples I come across. 🤷‍♀️

I see. If I understood you correctly, you see the psychological phenomenon as something reducible to neurological. Well, that's one way to go about it. Regardlessly, it does qualify, why not.
Alternatively, you could tell what was confusing and maybe we could get it straight.

black_jester_3647 said:
It also sounds like from your above post that despite having Ni, you prefer to deal with the concrete aspects, probably the Te leading, an extroverted leader function which makes sense it would lead to a primarily exroverted personality. Interesting.

The aspects may not have to be concrete necessarily. It is less about what is tangible and more about what lies outside of what I know and accept already. About things that create impressions and challenge my understanding. I don't care as much about preserving impressions and controlling them.
Furthermore, I adhere to the hypothesis that the auxiliary function is going to serve the primary attitude of consciousness, which is extraverted in this case. (which means I have "Ne")

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Squirt

· #20 · 12 d ago

Allostasis said:
The aspects may not have to be concrete necessarily. It is less about what is tangible and more about what lies outside of what I know and accept already.

About things that create impressions and challenge my understanding. I don't care as much about preserving impressions and controlling them.
Furthermore, I adhere to the hypothesis that the auxiliary function is going to serve the primary attitude of consciousness, which is extraverted in this case. (which means I have "Ne")

You're elaborating on your Intuition, here. Can you relate how your relationship with "intangible" knowledge and impressions are in service (auxiliary) to Thinking rather than dominant?

Lol, that sounds like such a stuffy essay question, but I enjoy how you explain your understanding of type, if you are game.

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