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title (for anyone that doesn't know this is a series on netflix)
Mindhunters mbti?
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The main character, Holden Ford, is probably Fi or Ni dominant? I don't know, I'm curious to know these characters as well, but I'm not an expert with cognitive functions. The series is psychologically enthralling; I'm drawn to intense, interrogation scenes, especially when it involves a character with a wizardly mind. I'd guess Holden could be INFJ maybe because he relies on his gut and seems to be guided by intuition, but INFP and ISFP are possibilities too, as Fi seems to have a strong pull on his motivations and overall character.
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Holden is so INFJ it hurts. He presents a little INFP in early episodes, but no INFP is so punctual or organized. No INFP would be comfy within the rigid confines of the FBI. His apartment looks like a surgical center, and he says he'd wear his suit on his day off. Pure J. He's a perfectionist who goes back to college later in life to self-improve, also INFJ traits. Holden and Wendy often talk about their intuitive hunches, and Holden is in fact reprimanded by his S boss for being too intuitive. He is definitely not S. He mirrors the emotions of the psychos to get them to talk, which is pure INFJ. Debbie even challenges him to guess what is going on in their conversation in the final episode because he is "so good at reading people". He's always a step ahead of her with his hunches and reads her like a book. So INFJ.
Bill is harder to read. He seems like an E, but likes to play golf alone. He's the most S of the three, but uses his N better than any of them to put together crime scenes. He seems more T than F, but he is most emotionally affected by the brutality experienced by the victims. Probably a J being a lifer in the FBI.
Wendy is definitely an introvert, and clearly an intuitive by the nature of her profession and the way she and Holden wax intuitively. She's an emotional cold fish, so I'd peg her a T. Her fashion sense is far too classic and put together for a P, and her apartment and workspace are immaculate. She is especially rigid in her interpretation of the "script" and the team's role as researchers. INTJ is my guess for her.
Debbie seems INFP, which would explain why she and Holden get along well, but have a fundamental issue with compatibility due to the way their functions stack.
Fun fact: Mindhunter is produced by David Fincher, the INFJ director of Fight Club. Ed Norton, an INFJ in real life, plays an INFJ battling his ESTP alter ego Tyler Durden in Fight Club.
Bill is harder to read. He seems like an E, but likes to play golf alone. He's the most S of the three, but uses his N better than any of them to put together crime scenes. He seems more T than F, but he is most emotionally affected by the brutality experienced by the victims. Probably a J being a lifer in the FBI.
Wendy is definitely an introvert, and clearly an intuitive by the nature of her profession and the way she and Holden wax intuitively. She's an emotional cold fish, so I'd peg her a T. Her fashion sense is far too classic and put together for a P, and her apartment and workspace are immaculate. She is especially rigid in her interpretation of the "script" and the team's role as researchers. INTJ is my guess for her.
Debbie seems INFP, which would explain why she and Holden get along well, but have a fundamental issue with compatibility due to the way their functions stack.
Fun fact: Mindhunter is produced by David Fincher, the INFJ director of Fight Club. Ed Norton, an INFJ in real life, plays an INFJ battling his ESTP alter ego Tyler Durden in Fight Club.
Holden - INFJ
Bill - ISTJ ... he is extremely good at putting cases together because of the knowledge he holds and values. He see things very Black and White, until he starts working with Holden and is somewhat "forced" into grey areas (whilst keeping his edge, of course. you will not make him do what he doesn't want to.. he is not as fascinated by the unknown like an N type would be, i.e. Holden but is invested in the research for the knowledge it will provide in the future). He is so emotionally effected because this is not morally correct (tert. Fi), and it goes against traditional, christian, hometown ways of life (dom. Si)... More out of his element when it comes to interviewing serial killers than investigating current crimes. Trustworthy in the sense that he believes in the system he works for, unlike Holden, who uses the system as a means to get what he's after (expertise, future knowings, prevention, etc.)
Wendy - INTJ
Debbie - ENTP ... speculation/inspiration for Holden (as Ne often does for Ni). She is very Ti oriented in her studies/thoughts. Her and Holden match very well, otherwise I don't think it would have lasted so long... *spoilers* when he becomes obsessed with work, he expects her to be his sounding board instead of his partner. He shows up uninvited, and is extremely obnoxious until she pays attention. I don't think an INFP would put up with that while they are clearly trying to study alone. ENTPs are the most "introverted extroverts" so it makes sense that she seems introverted to the audience. Debbie's Ti matches with her statement, " I just wanted to stop thinking. Don't you ever get sick of thinking?" (along those lines), whereas Holden (Tertiary Ti) always WANTS to be thinking. Our tertiary function often represents what we wish to be most. Back to the comments in the grocery store that solidified her status as only a person to talk out loud to.. She appears to withdraw when he says "can't you just be my girlfriend instead of having an opinion" (I do NOT see any Fi type not outright reacting to this) . Even then, she is calm. She decides he is more invested in his research than her and she does not take this out on him. She simply lets him go by letting him do what he does best.
(Dom Ni in both Wendy and Holden is so obvious, it's frightening! haha)
Bill - ISTJ ... he is extremely good at putting cases together because of the knowledge he holds and values. He see things very Black and White, until he starts working with Holden and is somewhat "forced" into grey areas (whilst keeping his edge, of course. you will not make him do what he doesn't want to.. he is not as fascinated by the unknown like an N type would be, i.e. Holden but is invested in the research for the knowledge it will provide in the future). He is so emotionally effected because this is not morally correct (tert. Fi), and it goes against traditional, christian, hometown ways of life (dom. Si)... More out of his element when it comes to interviewing serial killers than investigating current crimes. Trustworthy in the sense that he believes in the system he works for, unlike Holden, who uses the system as a means to get what he's after (expertise, future knowings, prevention, etc.)
Wendy - INTJ
Debbie - ENTP ... speculation/inspiration for Holden (as Ne often does for Ni). She is very Ti oriented in her studies/thoughts. Her and Holden match very well, otherwise I don't think it would have lasted so long... *spoilers* when he becomes obsessed with work, he expects her to be his sounding board instead of his partner. He shows up uninvited, and is extremely obnoxious until she pays attention. I don't think an INFP would put up with that while they are clearly trying to study alone. ENTPs are the most "introverted extroverts" so it makes sense that she seems introverted to the audience. Debbie's Ti matches with her statement, " I just wanted to stop thinking. Don't you ever get sick of thinking?" (along those lines), whereas Holden (Tertiary Ti) always WANTS to be thinking. Our tertiary function often represents what we wish to be most. Back to the comments in the grocery store that solidified her status as only a person to talk out loud to.. She appears to withdraw when he says "can't you just be my girlfriend instead of having an opinion" (I do NOT see any Fi type not outright reacting to this) . Even then, she is calm. She decides he is more invested in his research than her and she does not take this out on him. She simply lets him go by letting him do what he does best.
(Dom Ni in both Wendy and Holden is so obvious, it's frightening! haha)
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Holden is INFJ, I agree that he is so INFJ it hurts
Bill is either an ISTJ or an ESTP, but I lean towards the latter because they form a classic duality tandem with Holden (they're opposites of each other, but they cannot do without each other)
Wendy is ENTJ, she says that insight is useful but not everything
Debbie I think is an ISFP
Bill is either an ISTJ or an ESTP, but I lean towards the latter because they form a classic duality tandem with Holden (they're opposites of each other, but they cannot do without each other)
Wendy is ENTJ, she says that insight is useful but not everything
Debbie I think is an ISFP
Holden flips between INFP, INTP and INFJ, primarily the latter.
Bill's primarily an ESTP, sometimes ESTJ, reliant on which type they need to foil for Holden's type flipping.
Wendy's an INTJ and sometimes, an STJ.
Shepherd's an ESTJ.
Debbie's type eludes me since they haven't fleshed her out enough. She's a vehicle for Holden to dialogue with or gain insights through their sexual interactions. But she strikes me as some form of sensor.
Still have an episode to watch so I might be missing something that would help to gel their types.
Bill's primarily an ESTP, sometimes ESTJ, reliant on which type they need to foil for Holden's type flipping.
Wendy's an INTJ and sometimes, an STJ.
Shepherd's an ESTJ.
Debbie's type eludes me since they haven't fleshed her out enough. She's a vehicle for Holden to dialogue with or gain insights through their sexual interactions. But she strikes me as some form of sensor.
Still have an episode to watch so I might be missing something that would help to gel their types.
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I found Holden really annoying as the show progressed. I thought he was interesting at first though...I think that might have been the point of the show actually, haha. Loved Wendy, what a badass. 
Holden seemed like an INxP to me. I couldn't see the Fe everyone seems to have picked up on with the INFJ typings.
Wendy seemed like an INTJ.
Holt an ESTP. Projected outwardly his thought process, very 'it's not that complicated' but still drawn to the Ti concept that Holden is obsessed with. Definitely an Fe user, so yeah, ESTP.
Holden seemed like an INxP to me. I couldn't see the Fe everyone seems to have picked up on with the INFJ typings.
Wendy seemed like an INTJ.
Holt an ESTP. Projected outwardly his thought process, very 'it's not that complicated' but still drawn to the Ti concept that Holden is obsessed with. Definitely an Fe user, so yeah, ESTP.
Holden - INFJ
One of the more obvious INFJ characters I've seen. He looks at things in a very holistic/detached way (Ni), gets frustrated with others for missing the point and not seeing the big picture that he's painting quite a lot. I can relate to that. Story of my life. "You're missing the point..." He sees the flaws in the current system/status quo and seeks to change/improve things by changing the paradigm. He's very idealistic about this in that NF way.
He's always looking for the deeper/hidden reasons/meanings behind things and taps into these things intuitively (Ni) then he seeks to persuade others through the way he talks (Fe-Ti). He naturally understands that most people just want to feel heard (also Fe). He's very considerate and accommodating to others' view points (Fe) -- most of the time.
He's always concerned about what is socially appropriate, he tailors his responses to others. When he interviews the serial killers, his tactic is to speak their "language" (Fe) by tapping into how they think, their psyche (Ni/Fe/Ti). He's good at getting the responses he's looking for this way. He does the same with interrogations. He collects data through (Fe) with the interviews - understanding others then applying it to the interrogations by fitting the puzzle pieces to come up with his own system. He likes to talk and vent about his thoughts and feelings about the attitudes of others as FJ's often do. He's naturally and genuinely very curious about others (also very FJ). He cares about people, gets emotionally invested easily, wants to actively help people (like with the foot tickler situation) even if it's a bit questionable to do so. He wants to apply what he's learning, making it tangible (Se)...otherwise it's like, what's the point?
At first I thought he could be a type 9 since he's very calm, polite etc. By the end of the show I thought 6w5 seemed more likely. He's very respectful of the authority but questioning/challenging it at the same time. He still tries to persuade others through (Ni-Fe) and I think he went into CP 6 mode/ESTP shadow mode at the end there where he was like "fuck it." He chides himself for doubting himself. 5 wing because he's not afraid of looking deeper at the dark side of things (quite the opposite, he has a fascination with it), he wants to become a master at what he does. I liked his character a lot and i got frustrated when I felt like he was being misunderstood by the other characters. He got cocky towards the end for sure but judging by the last episode, I'd say he's been permanently humbled after his last encounter with Kemper.
Wendy - INTJ
She's extremely good at analyzing data, she wants to follow a procedure she came up with (questions for the interviews) based on a set of objective standards (Te). She's always talking about the importance and value in being objective (Te). This is where her and Holden butt heads. They each offer something valuable to the table but both refuse to acknowledge that and thus, it divides them as a team. Holden knows that you have to make things personal rather than always going the cold/objective approach to get people to talk. Wendy understands this to some extent too (she tells them to build rapport but she expects more objectivity) but Holden takes a different approach when it comes to reaching others. Wendy is very direct (through Te). She just states things logically as she sees them. No sugar coating. She's also all about observing patterns and is very good at it (through Ni).
Her and Holden are both very stubborn and I believe this is because they're both leading with intuition so they both think they are correct when it comes to their intuition. Which can be a flaw for INJ's. We kind of can be know-it-alls in this sense and you get that from both of these characters. They are both very much on the same wavelength with their shared dominant Ni but conflict arises with the Te/Ti Fe/Fi clashes. She's very stubborn when it comes to what she believes is right as well perhaps due to tertiary Fi (her deep inner vales - which she may or may nor realize) kicking in there too. At least that's what it seemed like from my perspective. I'll guess she's a type 5 with a 1 fix.
Bill - ESTP
I get more of an SP vibe from him but I do see some SJ things there where he cares about following procedures, a bit uncomfortable with not following the status-quo. He's very reactive, raw and off the cuff (perhaps due to Se/Ti/Fe). But I could see Fi there too with how emotional he gets with the immorality he feels about certain things, harder time staying objective. Maybe this is because he's a type 1 rather than STJ. I think he's just sensitive about it though and going through a hard time in life - especially since he bottles everything up and refuses to vent about things (lower Fe). He just tries to carry it all on his own or thinks he has to. He categorizes things through Ti - men are this way - we communicate in this way (Fe). I see him as a good balance for Holden since he brings the street-smarts through his experiences and Holden brings the intuition. He often does not think before he speaks (leading with Se) which would be more typical in an introvert or J type.
Debbie
I get a TP vibe from her with the way she thinks and talks. Could be ISTP, INTP or ENTP. Like someone else said, her character isn't super fleshed out so it's hard to say. She's definitely a P type - she almost never seems to have a plan in mind. Very in the moment. She cares about collecting experiences and experimenting which could either be Se or Ne. She talks about how she over thinks and often wants to get out of her head which could be Ti/Ni or Ti/Si loops. Though I tend to think an ISTP or an ENTP would be more likely to say something like that than an INTP. I can't really see an INTP talk about getting tired of thinking *shrugs* So I'm leaning towards ISTP or ENTP. Not sure.
Unit Chief Shepard
ESTJ seems obvious enough.
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I guess I won't attempt to type any of the serial killers like Kemper. I'd have to give it more thought anyway.
One of the more obvious INFJ characters I've seen. He looks at things in a very holistic/detached way (Ni), gets frustrated with others for missing the point and not seeing the big picture that he's painting quite a lot. I can relate to that. Story of my life. "You're missing the point..." He sees the flaws in the current system/status quo and seeks to change/improve things by changing the paradigm. He's very idealistic about this in that NF way.
He's always looking for the deeper/hidden reasons/meanings behind things and taps into these things intuitively (Ni) then he seeks to persuade others through the way he talks (Fe-Ti). He naturally understands that most people just want to feel heard (also Fe). He's very considerate and accommodating to others' view points (Fe) -- most of the time.
He's always concerned about what is socially appropriate, he tailors his responses to others. When he interviews the serial killers, his tactic is to speak their "language" (Fe) by tapping into how they think, their psyche (Ni/Fe/Ti). He's good at getting the responses he's looking for this way. He does the same with interrogations. He collects data through (Fe) with the interviews - understanding others then applying it to the interrogations by fitting the puzzle pieces to come up with his own system. He likes to talk and vent about his thoughts and feelings about the attitudes of others as FJ's often do. He's naturally and genuinely very curious about others (also very FJ). He cares about people, gets emotionally invested easily, wants to actively help people (like with the foot tickler situation) even if it's a bit questionable to do so. He wants to apply what he's learning, making it tangible (Se)...otherwise it's like, what's the point?
At first I thought he could be a type 9 since he's very calm, polite etc. By the end of the show I thought 6w5 seemed more likely. He's very respectful of the authority but questioning/challenging it at the same time. He still tries to persuade others through (Ni-Fe) and I think he went into CP 6 mode/ESTP shadow mode at the end there where he was like "fuck it." He chides himself for doubting himself. 5 wing because he's not afraid of looking deeper at the dark side of things (quite the opposite, he has a fascination with it), he wants to become a master at what he does. I liked his character a lot and i got frustrated when I felt like he was being misunderstood by the other characters. He got cocky towards the end for sure but judging by the last episode, I'd say he's been permanently humbled after his last encounter with Kemper.
Wendy - INTJ
She's extremely good at analyzing data, she wants to follow a procedure she came up with (questions for the interviews) based on a set of objective standards (Te). She's always talking about the importance and value in being objective (Te). This is where her and Holden butt heads. They each offer something valuable to the table but both refuse to acknowledge that and thus, it divides them as a team. Holden knows that you have to make things personal rather than always going the cold/objective approach to get people to talk. Wendy understands this to some extent too (she tells them to build rapport but she expects more objectivity) but Holden takes a different approach when it comes to reaching others. Wendy is very direct (through Te). She just states things logically as she sees them. No sugar coating. She's also all about observing patterns and is very good at it (through Ni).
Her and Holden are both very stubborn and I believe this is because they're both leading with intuition so they both think they are correct when it comes to their intuition. Which can be a flaw for INJ's. We kind of can be know-it-alls in this sense and you get that from both of these characters. They are both very much on the same wavelength with their shared dominant Ni but conflict arises with the Te/Ti Fe/Fi clashes. She's very stubborn when it comes to what she believes is right as well perhaps due to tertiary Fi (her deep inner vales - which she may or may nor realize) kicking in there too. At least that's what it seemed like from my perspective. I'll guess she's a type 5 with a 1 fix.
Bill - ESTP
I get more of an SP vibe from him but I do see some SJ things there where he cares about following procedures, a bit uncomfortable with not following the status-quo. He's very reactive, raw and off the cuff (perhaps due to Se/Ti/Fe). But I could see Fi there too with how emotional he gets with the immorality he feels about certain things, harder time staying objective. Maybe this is because he's a type 1 rather than STJ. I think he's just sensitive about it though and going through a hard time in life - especially since he bottles everything up and refuses to vent about things (lower Fe). He just tries to carry it all on his own or thinks he has to. He categorizes things through Ti - men are this way - we communicate in this way (Fe). I see him as a good balance for Holden since he brings the street-smarts through his experiences and Holden brings the intuition. He often does not think before he speaks (leading with Se) which would be more typical in an introvert or J type.
Debbie
I get a TP vibe from her with the way she thinks and talks. Could be ISTP, INTP or ENTP. Like someone else said, her character isn't super fleshed out so it's hard to say. She's definitely a P type - she almost never seems to have a plan in mind. Very in the moment. She cares about collecting experiences and experimenting which could either be Se or Ne. She talks about how she over thinks and often wants to get out of her head which could be Ti/Ni or Ti/Si loops. Though I tend to think an ISTP or an ENTP would be more likely to say something like that than an INTP. I can't really see an INTP talk about getting tired of thinking *shrugs* So I'm leaning towards ISTP or ENTP. Not sure.
Unit Chief Shepard
ESTJ seems obvious enough.
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I guess I won't attempt to type any of the serial killers like Kemper. I'd have to give it more thought anyway.
I completely agree with @Vivid Melody's excellent analysis on the character's types; although, I disagree with some of the Enneagram types.
Holden - INFJ 1w9 sp/so (1w9-5w6-4w5)
Bill - ESTP 8w9 sp/sx (8w9-6w5-2w1) (I'm surprised how others don't see his Ti/Fe, and how that complements with Holden's very well; They're definitely Duals in Socionics-land. Holden has the Ni-Fe, Bill the Se-Ti)
Wendy - INTJ 5w4 so/sp (5w4-1w9-3w4)
Debbie - ENTP 5w4 sx/so (I'm a little less sure on her type, but that's the best I got)
Chief Shepard - ESTJ 6w5 so/sp (Holden's "Conflictor" (Again, Socionics): "I had to follow my intuition..." "Your what!?" :angry: Can anyone say Ni PoLR? :laughing
Gregg Smith - I really don't know his MBTI type, but he seemed like a phobic 6w5 sp/so, fearful of and slavish to authority
Detective Ocasek - ISFJ 9w1 sp/so
I saw this start to happen in Holden towards the end. He wasn't extremely unhealthy, but he was starting to move in that direction:
Holden - INFJ 1w9 sp/so (1w9-5w6-4w5)
Bill - ESTP 8w9 sp/sx (8w9-6w5-2w1) (I'm surprised how others don't see his Ti/Fe, and how that complements with Holden's very well; They're definitely Duals in Socionics-land. Holden has the Ni-Fe, Bill the Se-Ti)
Wendy - INTJ 5w4 so/sp (5w4-1w9-3w4)
Debbie - ENTP 5w4 sx/so (I'm a little less sure on her type, but that's the best I got)
Chief Shepard - ESTJ 6w5 so/sp (Holden's "Conflictor" (Again, Socionics): "I had to follow my intuition..." "Your what!?" :angry: Can anyone say Ni PoLR? :laughing
Gregg Smith - I really don't know his MBTI type, but he seemed like a phobic 6w5 sp/so, fearful of and slavish to authority
Detective Ocasek - ISFJ 9w1 sp/so
I saw Holden as thinking he was more on this "moral crusade" in a way. He always sees himself as doing the right thing, even if his methods are morally suspect. This is what happens in lower average/unhealthy 1s, who can become "evil" in an attempt to eradicate evil. I wouldn't say that's what Holden's doing necessarily, but whenever he's questioned about his methods, he always justifies it with "Yeah, but I locked up a murderer." (i.e. I am right in the grand scheme of things). The whole thing feels like he sees himself on a mission, which 1s (and INFJs) often do. Even when Debbie started to question him about his approach, he said something like, "It doesn't matter as long as the theory is proven correct." The ends justifies the means. Of course, that's Ni at play too, but I think it's also influenced by him being a 1 and becoming self-righteous along the way, like how he says in his interview with the department heads about his behavior, "You're doing the same thing I'm doing, but I'm much better at it." He's also extremely perfectionistic in everything he does, like how we see him going to class and work in a fancy suit, taking his notes during the interviews, and never thinks he could be wrong throughout any of it. He keeps his emotions in check (i.e. repression in 1s), until he can't any longer. Even Debbie thinks he's rather "square" and a mama's boy when they first meet. He's a goody-two shoes. Overall, I found Holden a little ridiculous at times haha, especially with the foot-tickler incident, but I think he's a pretty good portrayal of how an INFJ actually is in the real world, instead of the common image of INFJ characters being otherworldy mystical guides.
I saw this start to happen in Holden towards the end. He wasn't extremely unhealthy, but he was starting to move in that direction:
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@mistakenforstranger and I have discussed over this at length, haha, although he and I disagree over some of the enneagram and instinct stackings for certain characters.
I type Holden as INFJ 9w1 sp/so. Holden does begin to disintegrate into unhealthy levels about halfway into season 1. The thing that bothered me was that I couldn't put my finger on exactly what he was disintegrating to. He wasn't a overly critical 1 disintegrating into an emotionally unstable 4. He wasn't a fearful 5 disintegrating into a scattered 7. But what I did notice about Holden is him becoming overly cocky, slightly paranoid but trying to come across like a "tough guy with thick skin"... and the scene following Holden's meeting with Kemper when Holden collapses onto the floor of the hospital because he's experiencing a full-on anxiety attack really sealed the deal for me on his 9 to 6 disintegration. For the first time in the entire course of the show, Holden finally showed fear and vulnerability. It was as though up until then he was pretending like everything was fine and that he was unfazed by the moral dilemmas of his job, and then his unconscious Fi kicked in -- these real feelings he's been avoiding that have been culminating -- it finally caught up with him and hit him like a wrecking ball in those final moments with Kemper. He's very agreeable early on in the season. If Bill would yell at him, which was often :laughing: , Holden wouldn't argue back -- he'd just say "Okay, Bill" and become quiet. His 1 wing started emerging more halfway into the season -- through actions like criticizing/nagging his girlfriend for doing things he doesn't agree with and picking on Bill for being too sensitive about the nature of their interview subjects.
I type the actor who plays Holden (Jonathan Groff) as xNFJ 9w1 sp/so. I've watched a couple of his interviews and his Fe is probably the most obvious part about the actor. I also know that David Fincher makes his potential actors take enneagram and personality tests before assigning them to roles, and that he has a history of purposefully choosing INFJ actors to play INxJ roles so it would not surprise me in the least if that's why he picked Jonathan Groff to play Holden.
@mistakenforstranger changed my mind about Bill though. I thought for sure Bill had to be a Te-dom because it seemed like Bill didn't take the interview research seriously until Dr. Wendy Carr (an expert) weighed in and gave her opinion that they were onto something monumental and game-changing. But mistakenforstranger convinced me that if you compare Bill to FBI director Sheperd, then there's a difference. Sheperd's an obvious Te-dom whereas Bill does tend to side more with Holden in their arguments. While it does take some time for Bill to get on board with Holden's idea, I think they ultimately end up understanding each other and working well off of each other because of their shared Ti functions and also because they are dual types -- shadows of each other. I believe Bill to be ESTP 8w9 sp/sx.
As for Wendy, I type her as INTJ 5w4 sp/sx. mistakenforstranger doesn't agree with that instinct stacking. He thinks she's more of a so/sp, but I can't see her as anything other than a social-last type. For one, Wendy's girlfriend invites her to have a drink at a pub with some colleagues and, during the social engagement, Wendy says nothing, excuses herself from the table, and leaves the pub without announcing her departure. She doesn't care how that action might reflect poorly on her reputation. On a whim, she decides to leave Boston and move closer to Quantico. All her friends, colleagues, social circle and girlfriend from Boston are abandoned without her losing any sleep over it. She's unfazed. She spends the majority of her free time at home watching TV or feeding a stray cat. At one point, Holden is driving her to the airport (I think?) and he's trying to make small talk with her in the car by asking her about her commute and she turns to him and says rather coldly "Is small talk a way you deal with your anxiety?". It's an awkward moment and Holden appears a little flushed by the bluntness of her words. I think it shows her complete disinterest and disregard for social niceties. She just doesn't give a shit about it.
I type Holden as INFJ 9w1 sp/so. Holden does begin to disintegrate into unhealthy levels about halfway into season 1. The thing that bothered me was that I couldn't put my finger on exactly what he was disintegrating to. He wasn't a overly critical 1 disintegrating into an emotionally unstable 4. He wasn't a fearful 5 disintegrating into a scattered 7. But what I did notice about Holden is him becoming overly cocky, slightly paranoid but trying to come across like a "tough guy with thick skin"... and the scene following Holden's meeting with Kemper when Holden collapses onto the floor of the hospital because he's experiencing a full-on anxiety attack really sealed the deal for me on his 9 to 6 disintegration. For the first time in the entire course of the show, Holden finally showed fear and vulnerability. It was as though up until then he was pretending like everything was fine and that he was unfazed by the moral dilemmas of his job, and then his unconscious Fi kicked in -- these real feelings he's been avoiding that have been culminating -- it finally caught up with him and hit him like a wrecking ball in those final moments with Kemper. He's very agreeable early on in the season. If Bill would yell at him, which was often :laughing: , Holden wouldn't argue back -- he'd just say "Okay, Bill" and become quiet. His 1 wing started emerging more halfway into the season -- through actions like criticizing/nagging his girlfriend for doing things he doesn't agree with and picking on Bill for being too sensitive about the nature of their interview subjects.
I type the actor who plays Holden (Jonathan Groff) as xNFJ 9w1 sp/so. I've watched a couple of his interviews and his Fe is probably the most obvious part about the actor. I also know that David Fincher makes his potential actors take enneagram and personality tests before assigning them to roles, and that he has a history of purposefully choosing INFJ actors to play INxJ roles so it would not surprise me in the least if that's why he picked Jonathan Groff to play Holden.
@mistakenforstranger changed my mind about Bill though. I thought for sure Bill had to be a Te-dom because it seemed like Bill didn't take the interview research seriously until Dr. Wendy Carr (an expert) weighed in and gave her opinion that they were onto something monumental and game-changing. But mistakenforstranger convinced me that if you compare Bill to FBI director Sheperd, then there's a difference. Sheperd's an obvious Te-dom whereas Bill does tend to side more with Holden in their arguments. While it does take some time for Bill to get on board with Holden's idea, I think they ultimately end up understanding each other and working well off of each other because of their shared Ti functions and also because they are dual types -- shadows of each other. I believe Bill to be ESTP 8w9 sp/sx.
As for Wendy, I type her as INTJ 5w4 sp/sx. mistakenforstranger doesn't agree with that instinct stacking. He thinks she's more of a so/sp, but I can't see her as anything other than a social-last type. For one, Wendy's girlfriend invites her to have a drink at a pub with some colleagues and, during the social engagement, Wendy says nothing, excuses herself from the table, and leaves the pub without announcing her departure. She doesn't care how that action might reflect poorly on her reputation. On a whim, she decides to leave Boston and move closer to Quantico. All her friends, colleagues, social circle and girlfriend from Boston are abandoned without her losing any sleep over it. She's unfazed. She spends the majority of her free time at home watching TV or feeding a stray cat. At one point, Holden is driving her to the airport (I think?) and he's trying to make small talk with her in the car by asking her about her commute and she turns to him and says rather coldly "Is small talk a way you deal with your anxiety?". It's an awkward moment and Holden appears a little flushed by the bluntness of her words. I think it shows her complete disinterest and disregard for social niceties. She just doesn't give a shit about it.
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As for Debbie, I agree with @complexme and @Vivid Melody in that she's likely an ENTP. It's really her "Don't you ever get tired of thinking?" line that makes me think she's ENTP over ISTP and INTP. Ti-doms can't turn their thinking function off since it's their most dominant function. However, ENTPs can turn their Ti off when they're in a Ne-Fe grip. It's also telling that she described herself in her freshman year of college of being a heavy drinker/party-animal because she "wanted to fit in" (tertiary Fe?) and that she was able to fake cry in front of her college professor to get a passing grade. ENTP 6w5 sx/so would be my guess for Debbie's type.
Gregg Smith strikes me as enneagram 1. Though whether Gregg is 1w9 or 1w2 remains to be seen. 126 is probably his tritype, likely making him an xxFJ type.
Gregg: It's dark and all I see is his knuckles gripping the stock, and he's yelling, "Halt! Police! Drop the gun!" I realize this guy is about to shoot me.
Bill: Whoa.
Gregg: And then I hear Mike yell, "He's an FBI agent!" He saved my life. Because I was frozen, I couldn't speak. Uniform lowers his shotgun, and we take off again after the driver. Mike catches him and nearly beats the flimflam out of him because he's so keyed up after watching me almost get blown away. I had to pull him off the guy. But anyway a great partner.
Bill: Well, you did your partner a good deed. I bet he's grateful.
Gregg: The guys call me "The Padre" and they come to confession at my desk.
Holden: You Catholic?
Gregg: My mother's Catholic, my father's Quaker.
Bill: No shit.
Holden: How does that work?
Gregg: Our family joke was that we'd never run out of guilt or oats.
Wendy: Are you religious?
Gregg: Yes, ma'am.
Wendy [corrects]: Dr. Carr.
Gregg: Doctor. Yes. I have to admit that as a kid I leaned toward the drama of the Church. The organ, the incense, Jesus rising from the dead Easter morning.
Wendy: Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead?
Gregg: I am Christian. So is my wife. She's Catholic. We've already got two little girls. We're trying to slow-play the whole big family thing--
Wendy [interrupts]: Good and evil, right and wrong? Are these concepts that you believe in?
Gregg: Yes, I do.
Wendy: Binary thinking could hamstring you when it comes to critical assessment of our subjects. We need to understand the gray areas.
Gregg: The world is complex, I get that. I can check my judgment at the door.
Holden: The people we work with have done things that you don't even want to imagine.
Gregg: I've read some of your cases.
Holden: It's one thing to read about it. It's another to sit three feet away from a guy who's delighted to tell you how hard it was to stick his dick in his mother's neck after he sawed off her head.
Bill: What made you apply for the study?
Gregg: My daughters. When I hear about girls disappearing -- this may sound corny -- but I want to make the world a safer place for them.
The scene right after, Holden shows some paranoia over Gregg:
Bill [about Gregg]: He's smart. He's a family guy. He knows what's at stake.
Holden: Ugh! He's got you wrapped around his little Ivy League finger.
Wendy: You think it's an act?
Holden: He's a mole for Shepard.
Bill: Come on.
Holden: I'm serious. When's the last time Shepard came down here? He's trying to make sure we're not smearing the good name of the FBI.
Wendy: Don't kid yourself. We need Shepard.
Bill: His heart's in the right place. I think Agent Smith is earnest.
Holden: And that's a good thing?
Wendy: What about a trial period?
Holden: To see if we can beat the flimflam out of him?
Holden:
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Gregg Smith strikes me as enneagram 1. Though whether Gregg is 1w9 or 1w2 remains to be seen. 126 is probably his tritype, likely making him an xxFJ type.
Gregg: It's dark and all I see is his knuckles gripping the stock, and he's yelling, "Halt! Police! Drop the gun!" I realize this guy is about to shoot me.
Bill: Whoa.
Gregg: And then I hear Mike yell, "He's an FBI agent!" He saved my life. Because I was frozen, I couldn't speak. Uniform lowers his shotgun, and we take off again after the driver. Mike catches him and nearly beats the flimflam out of him because he's so keyed up after watching me almost get blown away. I had to pull him off the guy. But anyway a great partner.
Bill: Well, you did your partner a good deed. I bet he's grateful.
Gregg: The guys call me "The Padre" and they come to confession at my desk.
Holden: You Catholic?
Gregg: My mother's Catholic, my father's Quaker.
Bill: No shit.
Holden: How does that work?
Gregg: Our family joke was that we'd never run out of guilt or oats.
Wendy: Are you religious?
Gregg: Yes, ma'am.
Wendy [corrects]: Dr. Carr.
Gregg: Doctor. Yes. I have to admit that as a kid I leaned toward the drama of the Church. The organ, the incense, Jesus rising from the dead Easter morning.
Wendy: Do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead?
Gregg: I am Christian. So is my wife. She's Catholic. We've already got two little girls. We're trying to slow-play the whole big family thing--
Wendy [interrupts]: Good and evil, right and wrong? Are these concepts that you believe in?
Gregg: Yes, I do.
Wendy: Binary thinking could hamstring you when it comes to critical assessment of our subjects. We need to understand the gray areas.
Gregg: The world is complex, I get that. I can check my judgment at the door.
Holden: The people we work with have done things that you don't even want to imagine.
Gregg: I've read some of your cases.
Holden: It's one thing to read about it. It's another to sit three feet away from a guy who's delighted to tell you how hard it was to stick his dick in his mother's neck after he sawed off her head.
Bill: What made you apply for the study?
Gregg: My daughters. When I hear about girls disappearing -- this may sound corny -- but I want to make the world a safer place for them.
The scene right after, Holden shows some paranoia over Gregg:
Bill [about Gregg]: He's smart. He's a family guy. He knows what's at stake.
Holden: Ugh! He's got you wrapped around his little Ivy League finger.
Wendy: You think it's an act?
Holden: He's a mole for Shepard.
Bill: Come on.
Holden: I'm serious. When's the last time Shepard came down here? He's trying to make sure we're not smearing the good name of the FBI.
Wendy: Don't kid yourself. We need Shepard.
Bill: His heart's in the right place. I think Agent Smith is earnest.
Holden: And that's a good thing?
Wendy: What about a trial period?
Holden: To see if we can beat the flimflam out of him?
Holden:
@mistakenforstranger
I always feel like I'm being daring any time I attempt to guess a fictional character's enneagram lol because I feel less confident about it. I feel like it can be hard to discern (for me) what their core is let alone their whole tri-type and instinctual stackings but that's probably just because I need some practice I'm new to it.
Anyways, I could see Holden being 1w9 or 9w1 as Hermetica suggested. I've also seen others type him as a core 5w4 and I can see that too! I think we all agree on these elements for his type just slightly differ on the order (some combo of 591). I felt shaky on typing him as a 6, to be honest so I've changed my mind since I posted here. It was just hard for me to see him as a core 5 because he's so personable rather than detached with other people. But then again, he's kind to others but still some what emotionally detached at the same time. But you could attribute his personable nature to being INFJ (aux Fe) or even instinctual stackings. So sometimes it's hard for me to discern whether something is the person's MBTI type or their enneagram. 1w9 would make sense since he's very idealistic and more gentle and 1w9's are that way. I could even see 1w2 though lol. I'm obviously undecided and I'll probably have a more solid answer whenever the next season comes out (hoping there will be a second season!).
In Holden's defense, he is right a lot of the time so I don't blame him for getting cocky to some extent lol. Maybe I'm biased though because I side with his methods most of the time. I mostly got frustrated with everyone else throughout the show for doubting him so much. But they probably just treated him that way due to the time period so that makes sense. He seemed to get cocky at the end in a 3ish way. Obviously that was off putting but what really made me mad was how they all threw him under the bus at the end even though deleting part of the conversation out of the notes was Bill's idea and not his. But Bill threw him under the bus too. I just thought that was so shitty.
I really liked Wendy's character initially but she started getting on my nerves towards the end too - being overly harsh with them and not understanding what it's like interviewing these serial killers because she's never done it herself. It frustrates me because they all bring something valuable to the table, they just need to respect and trust each other more. But maybe they will learn to value Holden's intelligence in his absence which I assume will happen since the incident in the last episode. That last episode was so intense! I felt like I was in the room! It was so well done. I really loved this show
I also was starting to second guess myself on Bill and thinking it's still possible he's ESTJ because of the Fi I see there too but you know how fictional characters usually go - sometimes they change types and aren't super consistent lol. Once again, I'll feel more sure once we see a second season
I always feel like I'm being daring any time I attempt to guess a fictional character's enneagram lol because I feel less confident about it. I feel like it can be hard to discern (for me) what their core is let alone their whole tri-type and instinctual stackings but that's probably just because I need some practice
I'm new to it. Anyways, I could see Holden being 1w9 or 9w1 as Hermetica suggested. I've also seen others type him as a core 5w4 and I can see that too! I think we all agree on these elements for his type just slightly differ on the order (some combo of 591). I felt shaky on typing him as a 6, to be honest so I've changed my mind since I posted here. It was just hard for me to see him as a core 5 because he's so personable rather than detached with other people. But then again, he's kind to others but still some what emotionally detached at the same time. But you could attribute his personable nature to being INFJ (aux Fe) or even instinctual stackings. So sometimes it's hard for me to discern whether something is the person's MBTI type or their enneagram. 1w9 would make sense since he's very idealistic and more gentle and 1w9's are that way. I could even see 1w2 though lol. I'm obviously undecided and I'll probably have a more solid answer whenever the next season comes out (hoping there will be a second season!).
In Holden's defense, he is right a lot of the time so I don't blame him for getting cocky to some extent lol. Maybe I'm biased though because I side with his methods most of the time. I mostly got frustrated with everyone else throughout the show for doubting him so much. But they probably just treated him that way due to the time period so that makes sense. He seemed to get cocky at the end in a 3ish way. Obviously that was off putting but what really made me mad was how they all threw him under the bus at the end even though deleting part of the conversation out of the notes was Bill's idea and not his. But Bill threw him under the bus too. I just thought that was so shitty.
I really liked Wendy's character initially but she started getting on my nerves towards the end too - being overly harsh with them and not understanding what it's like interviewing these serial killers because she's never done it herself. It frustrates me because they all bring something valuable to the table, they just need to respect and trust each other more. But maybe they will learn to value Holden's intelligence in his absence which I assume will happen since the incident in the last episode. That last episode was so intense! I felt like I was in the room! It was so well done. I really loved this show
I also was starting to second guess myself on Bill and thinking it's still possible he's ESTJ because of the Fi I see there too but you know how fictional characters usually go - sometimes they change types and aren't super consistent lol. Once again, I'll feel more sure once we see a second season
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@Vivid Melody Yeah, it really irked me too that Wendy and Gregg tattled on Holden. I think it shows Wendy's 1-fix and Gregg's 1 core. They felt like it was "right thing" to do, but took it upon themselves to impose their righteousness on everyone in the unit. I could see why Bill threw Holden under the bus though... I mean prior to this, Holden did accuse Bill of being jealous of him :bored:
I actually do wonder if maybe Gregg is a mole. Maybe not a mole for Shepard, but for somebody else since Gregg went against Shepard's wishes to destroy the tape. I wonder if Gregg is a mole because, logically speaking, I can't see why someone would sabotage their own unit like that. Was the purpose to get Holden fired? If so, what purpose does getting Holden fired serve? Hopefully Season 2 will have answers.
And yes, I agree that Holden has been proven to be always right when it comes to his instincts. I believe that what Holden did when it came to the school principal was right because, while that was not sexually deviant behavior, it was still deviant behavior. In this day and age, you'll never find a principal tickling a grown child's feet and paying them money as a form of punishment -- that kind of behavior would get a principal fired and possibly even sued by the child's family.
And another thing that makes me think Holden is a 9 is this quote of his in the final episode after the review board tell him that his behavior may get him fired from the job: "The only mistake I ever made was doubting myself". 4, 6, and 9 are part of the self-doubt triad -- they are types known for experiencing the most self-doubt. I wonder if Holden's cockiness comes from 9's line to 3 as well. Towards the end of the season, I remember Holden gets drunk and brags to some law enforcement officers about the work they're doing. One of those officers repeats the story to a journalist at which point it becomes an article in a newspaper that draws unwanted attention to their work. Bill gets mad at Holden over this slip-up and Holden slyly insinuates that Bill's anger is more about being jealous that Holden was mentioned in the article and that Bill wasn't, lol. That inflated ego though :laughing:
I actually do wonder if maybe Gregg is a mole. Maybe not a mole for Shepard, but for somebody else since Gregg went against Shepard's wishes to destroy the tape. I wonder if Gregg is a mole because, logically speaking, I can't see why someone would sabotage their own unit like that. Was the purpose to get Holden fired? If so, what purpose does getting Holden fired serve? Hopefully Season 2 will have answers.
And yes, I agree that Holden has been proven to be always right when it comes to his instincts. I believe that what Holden did when it came to the school principal was right because, while that was not sexually deviant behavior, it was still deviant behavior. In this day and age, you'll never find a principal tickling a grown child's feet and paying them money as a form of punishment -- that kind of behavior would get a principal fired and possibly even sued by the child's family.
And another thing that makes me think Holden is a 9 is this quote of his in the final episode after the review board tell him that his behavior may get him fired from the job: "The only mistake I ever made was doubting myself". 4, 6, and 9 are part of the self-doubt triad -- they are types known for experiencing the most self-doubt. I wonder if Holden's cockiness comes from 9's line to 3 as well. Towards the end of the season, I remember Holden gets drunk and brags to some law enforcement officers about the work they're doing. One of those officers repeats the story to a journalist at which point it becomes an article in a newspaper that draws unwanted attention to their work. Bill gets mad at Holden over this slip-up and Holden slyly insinuates that Bill's anger is more about being jealous that Holden was mentioned in the article and that Bill wasn't, lol. That inflated ego though :laughing:
Holden seemed like an INTP through and through. From his professional to personal life. His obliviousness when dating and the way he remains impersonal with the criminals is very Ti-dom. His convictions also seem Ti-dom with subconscious Fi support as it happens to INTPs.
I also think he is INTP due to his interactions with Wendy, an obvious INTJ. They are both T types and with different functions that support each other in workplace, she wants to create a well structured study when he isn't interested in the framework. He isn't an N dom of any kind, he is Ti dom.
His weak Fe is also very apparent in the obliviousness he has in his personal relationship. He isn't leading emotionally as I'd expect with an strong Fe type and when he lashes out to his girlfriend about not listening to him [after bottling up lack of communication for so long] he seems very typical INTP in emotional distress - distress that has been bottling up from his work and he wasn't able to understand it was there.
Also I would expect from a Fe aux to be less able to remain impersonal in their interviews with such criminals. IxTPs are remarkably capable of remaining impersonal and unemotional as Dario Nardi has demonstrated in his neurological experiments. I don't think an F would handle his job so well.
I also think he is INTP due to his interactions with Wendy, an obvious INTJ. They are both T types and with different functions that support each other in workplace, she wants to create a well structured study when he isn't interested in the framework. He isn't an N dom of any kind, he is Ti dom.
His weak Fe is also very apparent in the obliviousness he has in his personal relationship. He isn't leading emotionally as I'd expect with an strong Fe type and when he lashes out to his girlfriend about not listening to him [after bottling up lack of communication for so long] he seems very typical INTP in emotional distress - distress that has been bottling up from his work and he wasn't able to understand it was there.
Also I would expect from a Fe aux to be less able to remain impersonal in their interviews with such criminals. IxTPs are remarkably capable of remaining impersonal and unemotional as Dario Nardi has demonstrated in his neurological experiments. I don't think an F would handle his job so well.
I can't respond to quotes right now, but I will say one thing that points away from Holden being a 9 is that 9s are also Positive Outlook types. He's a little naive at times due to his idealism, but I would have a hard time seeing a 9 obsessed with serial killers and dark subject matter, like he is. Think of Ocasek in the one case and how he had a hard time looking at the pictures Holden/Tench were viewing. Holden is also far too composed and a workaholic to be a 9. 9s can become lazy (especially sp-9s who can become couch potatoes, for instance) and ignore what bothers them, so that their problems and responsibilities pile up, whereas Holden really never slows down once, always stays on top of things, and wants to address the underlying issues in his line of work. He isn't afraid of creating conflict among his colleagues either, whereas a 9 would give in more to what others want to keep the peace, but he usually stands his ground. I also can't see a 9 causing as much of a stir over Principal Ticklesfeet, because again, that's too much conflict for one day. If Holden's a 9, where is his sloth (i.e. "sin" of 9s)? I agree Holden has 9-ish tendencies, owing to his wing, but I can't see it as his core type.
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Okay, but does Ocasek have 4 and 5 as fixes? Doubtful. And since when would 1s be more likely to be obsessed with serial killers than 9s? I mean that obsession ties in more with 4s and 5s, not 1s or 9s lol. I hope you're not suggesting that it's 1's line to 4 that would make him that way, because:
None of the disintegration levels of 1 match with what Holden's going through. He's not berating himself and becoming depressed. Quite the opposite. He's becoming egotistical and reckless.
When 9s start to show unhealthy signs of phobic 6, they can become passive and "lazy" as you describe. But when 9s show unhealthy signs of 3, they become cocky, overly active, and they love praise over their accomplishments (e.g. being spoken of positively in the papers, being fawned over by law enforcement officers for interrogation skills, etc):
I agree. I think the other red flag with that whole thing was that when the parents directly asked him to stop touching their childrens feet, he kept doing it. He didn't respect boundaries at all. If it wasn't such a big deal, why couldn't he stop? Regardless, that's totally inappropriate behavior. He acted like he owned the kids. It was also weird that he was bribing the kids for it. Another red flag. The parents, teachers and Holden were right to be concerned about it possibly even leading to more in the future.
Ni is also a very detached function. Combine dom Ni with tertiary Ti and you got a person who is capable of appearing just as detached as an INTP. This is why INFJ's often mistype as INTP's and vise versa.
I think it's more likely that they have a shared affinity due to shared dom Ni. The Fe/Te clash seems pretty obvious. INFJ's have teritary Ti so that doesn't cancel out INFJ.
This is his first romantic relationship so that's why he's naive. I don't think it's due to inferior Fe. Someone is always going to be naive before they experience something. He constantly vents to his girlfriend. I don't see him bottling much up with her. It did come out one time and surprised him. He thought he had it under control but the job was getting to him more than he initially realized. She didn't understand why he reacted that way. She took his reaction towards her very personally. Then she cheated on him. He figured out she was cheating on him pretty quickly. Not naive in that sense.
I actually think he gets very personal or rather, is capable of appearing personal with them which I think any INFJ is capable of doing. He knew how to get on their level, speak their language, get them to trust him. He at least knew how to manipulate them in order to get what he wanted. I know I'm able to remain detached when I feel no emotional attachment to the person. He did get too comfortable though and lost sight of how dangerous these people really are in his obsession with figuring everything out. F's aren't basket cases. If anything, Bill was more of the basket case (understandably since he had problems going on at home) and he's a T. It really just depends on the person's mental state. Towards the end of the last episode, Holden lost it so now he's in the same boat. Holden also got pretty emotionally involved with the whole foot tickler case.
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