I saw Holden as thinking he was more on this "moral crusade" in a way. He always sees himself as doing the right thing, even if his methods are morally suspect. This is what happens in lower average/unhealthy 1s, who can become "evil" in an attempt to eradicate evil. I wouldn't say that's what Holden's doing necessarily, but whenever he's questioned about his methods, he always justifies it with "Yeah, but I locked up a murderer." (i.e. I am right in the grand scheme of things). The whole thing feels like he sees himself on a mission, which 1s (and INFJs) often do. Even when Debbie started to question him about his approach, he said something like, "It doesn't matter as long as the theory is proven correct." The ends justifies the means. Of course, that's Ni at play too, but I think it's also influenced by him being a 1 and becoming self-righteous along the way, like how he says in his interview with the department heads about his behavior, "You're doing the same thing I'm doing, but I'm much better at it." He's also extremely perfectionistic in everything he does, like how we see him going to class and work in a fancy suit, taking his notes during the interviews, and never thinks he could be wrong throughout any of it. He keeps his emotions in check (i.e. repression in 1s), until he can't any longer. Even Debbie thinks he's rather "square" and a mama's boy when they first meet. He's a goody-two shoes. Overall, I found Holden a little ridiculous at times haha, especially with the foot-tickler incident, but I think he's a pretty good portrayal of how an INFJ actually is in the real world, instead of the common image of INFJ characters being otherworldy mystical guides.At first I thought he could be a type 9 since he's very calm, polite etc. By the end of the show I thought 6w5 seemed more likely. He's very respectful of the authority but questioning/challenging it at the same time. He still tries to persuade others through (Ni-Fe) and I think he went into CP 6 mode/ESTP shadow mode at the end there where he was like "fuck it." He chides himself for doubting himself. 5 wing because he's not afraid of looking deeper at the dark side of things (quite the opposite, he has a fascination with it), he wants to become a master at what he does. I liked his character a lot and i got frustrated when I felt like he was being misunderstood by the other characters. He got cocky towards the end for sure but judging by the last episode, I'd say he's been permanently humbled after his last encounter with Kemper.
Unhealthy people of this subtype are almost completely dissociated from their emotions and contradictions. They resist seeing what does not fit into their world view. They tend to be inaccessible emotionally and intellectually, barricading themselves behind stubbornly held opinions. They can be very severe because their punitive tendencies are not checked by any real compassion for or identification with other human beings. Unhealthy Ones with a Nine-wing are extremely intolerant and self-righteous. They readily become obsessed with what they see as the evildoing of others, and compulsive about taking measures to rectify it, while dissociating themselves from contradictions in their own behavior. They cause others a great deal of harm because they do not understand the nature or extent of the suffering the unhesitatingly inflict on others.
Okay, but does Ocasek have 4 and 5 as fixes? Doubtful. And since when would 1s be more likely to be obsessed with serial killers than 9s? I mean that obsession ties in more with 4s and 5s, not 1s or 9s lol. I hope you're not suggesting that it's 1's line to 4 that would make him that way, because:I can't respond to quotes right now, but I will say one thing that points away from Holden being a 9 is that 9s are also Positive Outlook types. He's a little naive at times due to his idealism, but I would have a hard time seeing a 9 obsessed with serial killers and dark subject matter, like he is. Think of Ocasek in the one case and how he had a hard time looking at the pictures Holden/Tench were viewing.
None of the disintegration levels of 1 match with what Holden's going through. He's not berating himself and becoming depressed. Quite the opposite. He's becoming egotistical and reckless.Lines of Movement
1 moves to 7:
Positive: less critical, more enthusiastic, more optimistic, let go of need to control and gain spontaneity, see the positive rather than what's wrong, loosen up and have fun
Negative: self-destructive and excessive and then return to harsh self-criticism
1 moves to 4:
Positive: get in touch with deeper feelings
Negative: anger turns inward into depression, lose trust in themselves and feel unlovable, feel hopeless longing for what they can't have
When 9s start to show unhealthy signs of phobic 6, they can become passive and "lazy" as you describe. But when 9s show unhealthy signs of 3, they become cocky, overly active, and they love praise over their accomplishments (e.g. being spoken of positively in the papers, being fawned over by law enforcement officers for interrogation skills, etc):Holden is also far too composed and a workaholic to be a 9. 9s can become lazy (especially sp-9s who can become couch potatoes, for instance) and ignore what bothers them, so that their problems and responsibilities pile up, whereas Holden really never slows down once, always stays on top of things, and wants to address the underlying issues in his line of work. He isn't afraid of creating conflict among his colleagues either, whereas a 9 would give in more to what others want to keep the peace, but he usually stands his ground. I also can't see a 9 causing as much of a stir over Principal Ticklesfeet, because again, that's too much conflict for one day. If Holden's a 9, where is his sloth (i.e. "sin" of 9s)? I agree Holden has 9-ish tendencies, owing to his wing, but I can't see it as his core type.
Lines of Movement
9 moves to 3:
Positive: gain energy and productivity, become more focused, gain confidence, live more for themselves rather than through others
Negative: take on too much, seek validation from others for accomplishments rather than doing things for themselves
9 moves to 6:
Positive: become more outspoken and direct about their thoughts, become more realistic
Negative: increased anxiety, self-doubting, anxiety, and rigidity; become even more passive and inactive in this paralysis
I agree. I think the other red flag with that whole thing was that when the parents directly asked him to stop touching their childrens feet, he kept doing it. He didn't respect boundaries at all. If it wasn't such a big deal, why couldn't he stop? Regardless, that's totally inappropriate behavior. He acted like he owned the kids. It was also weird that he was bribing the kids for it. Another red flag. The parents, teachers and Holden were right to be concerned about it possibly even leading to more in the future.I believe that what Holden did when it came to the school principal was right because, while that was not sexually deviant behavior, it was still deviant behavior. In this day and age, you'll never find a principal tickling a grown child's feet and paying them money as a form of punishment -- that kind of behavior would get a principal fired and possibly even sued by the child's family.
Ni is also a very detached function. Combine dom Ni with tertiary Ti and you got a person who is capable of appearing just as detached as an INTP. This is why INFJ's often mistype as INTP's and vise versa.Holden seemed like an INTP through and through. From his professional to personal life. His obliviousness when dating and the way he remains impersonal with the criminals is very Ti-dom. His convictions also seem Ti-dom with subconscious Fi support as it happens to INTPs.
I think it's more likely that they have a shared affinity due to shared dom Ni. The Fe/Te clash seems pretty obvious. INFJ's have teritary Ti so that doesn't cancel out INFJ.I also think he is INTP due to his interactions with Wendy, an obvious INTJ. They are both T types and with different functions that support each other in workplace, she wants to create a well structured study when he isn't interested in the framework. He isn't an N dom of any kind, he is Ti dom.
This is his first romantic relationship so that's why he's naive. I don't think it's due to inferior Fe. Someone is always going to be naive before they experience something. He constantly vents to his girlfriend. I don't see him bottling much up with her. It did come out one time and surprised him. He thought he had it under control but the job was getting to him more than he initially realized. She didn't understand why he reacted that way. She took his reaction towards her very personally. Then she cheated on him. He figured out she was cheating on him pretty quickly. Not naive in that sense.His weak Fe is also very apparent in the obliviousness he has in his personal relationship. He isn't leading emotionally as I'd expect with an strong Fe type and when he lashes out to his girlfriend about not listening to him [after bottling up lack of communication for so long] he seems very typical INTP in emotional distress - distress that has been bottling up from his work and he wasn't able to understand it was there.
I actually think he gets very personal or rather, is capable of appearing personal with them which I think any INFJ is capable of doing. He knew how to get on their level, speak their language, get them to trust him. He at least knew how to manipulate them in order to get what he wanted. I know I'm able to remain detached when I feel no emotional attachment to the person. He did get too comfortable though and lost sight of how dangerous these people really are in his obsession with figuring everything out. F's aren't basket cases. If anything, Bill was more of the basket case (understandably since he had problems going on at home) and he's a T. It really just depends on the person's mental state. Towards the end of the last episode, Holden lost it so now he's in the same boat. Holden also got pretty emotionally involved with the whole foot tickler case.Also I would expect from a Fe aux to be less able to remain impersonal in their interviews with such criminals. IxTPs are remarkably capable of remaining impersonal and unemotional as Dario Nardi has demonstrated in his neurological experiments. I don't think an F would handle his job so well.