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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I usually type people as good and bad, friend and foe. A lot of times the good ones are the bad ones and the bad ones turn out to be good deep inside. I don't know... my gut feeling is so bad and inaccurate. I am always betrayed or taken advantage of. Any tips on how to know who is good and who is bad? Cuz I seem to classify people with my own made up scenarios. Like I confuse what happened with what I think has happened and with what did it mean.... Well my gut feelings about people is that they are good until they prove otherwise. And I only start feeling they are bad when they do something bad.

But what I mean with classifying them is in the long run those who did bad things weren't purely evil just imperfect and those who looked nice were evil deep inside. I always go with intentions. Like intentions sometimes justify things others did wrong. If someone did hurt me but didn't mean to I would forgive them but if someone wanted to hurt me but never could its hard to forgive. Its more about innocence and guiltiness...

Sorry if it wasn't clear what I meant.
 

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If your (non-Jungian) intuition is inaccurate and you want to improve, it's going to take a lot of time and patience, and a veritable ton of introspection. I used to mistrust my intuition - always trying to prove it right with evidence, instead of just following it - but I've never really had a problem with inaccuracy? (I know that sounds super arrogant, but enh) In the last several years, I've worked to stop hiding it, to stop trying to make my intuition be the kind of thing people will *approve* of, which helped for me. Just gotta own it.

It sounds like you could work on removing that immediate judgment and try to focus on what you can observe. Once your judgment is ... let's say, realigned, you can work from there. As in, hold off on labeling people until you have a good idea of their character. Or hold off on labeling altogether. But that's just a personal thing. It does sound like projection is causing problems for you, hence my prescription for introspection. Think to yourself - "is this conclusion coming from my fears or desires? or is it coming from the other's expressed beliefs and behaviors?"

I don't really see most people as capable of doing evil, let alone being it, so I can't help you there. But intentions can be a good way of judging moral character of the person (not necessarily the act - I tend towards consequentialism for that).

Why did you choose to have this thread here? Do you think Myers Briggs is related?
 

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I usually type people as good and bad, friend and foe. A lot of times the good ones are the bad ones and the bad ones turn out to be good deep inside. I don't know... my gut feeling is so bad and inaccurate. I am always betrayed or taken advantage of. Any tips on how to know who is good and who is bad? Cuz I seem to classify people with my own made up scenarios. Like I confuse what happened with what I think has happened and with what did it mean.... Well my gut feelings about people is that they are good until they prove otherwise. And I only start feeling they are bad when they do something bad.

But what I mean with classifying them is in the long run those who did bad things weren't purely evil just imperfect and those who looked nice were evil deep inside. I always go with intentions. Like intentions sometimes justify things others did wrong. If someone did hurt me but didn't mean to I would forgive them but if someone wanted to hurt me but never could its hard to forgive. Its more about innocence and guiltiness...

Sorry if it wasn't clear what I meant.
If you want to protect yourself and get your way, there is little practical purpose in labelling people good or evil, friend or foe. Neither is there much value at looking at intentions.

Observe behaviour and make predictions based on what they say and do. Don't let yourself be vulnerable unless you are sure you have enough data to make a sound judgement. Treat every social engagement like a game of chess, don't make a bold move if you don't have any idea what sort of game the other person is playing.

I never get betrayed or taken advantage of, but on the other hand I rarely get very close to people.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If your (non-Jungian) intuition is inaccurate and you want to improve, it's going to take a lot of time and patience, and a veritable ton of introspection. I used to mistrust my intuition - always trying to prove it right with evidence, instead of just following it - but I've never really had a problem with inaccuracy? (I know that sounds super arrogant, but enh) In the last several years, I've worked to stop hiding it, to stop trying to make my intuition be the kind of thing people will *approve* of, which helped for me. Just gotta own it.

It sounds like you could work on removing that immediate judgment and try to focus on what you can observe. Once your judgment is ... let's say, realigned, you can work from there. As in, hold off on labeling people until you have a good idea of their character. Or hold off on labeling altogether. But that's just a personal thing. It does sound like projection is causing problems for you, hence my prescription for introspection. Think to yourself - "is this conclusion coming from my fears or desires? or is it coming from the other's expressed beliefs and behaviors?"

I don't really see most people as capable of doing evil, let alone being it, so I can't help you there. But intentions can be a good way of judging moral character of the person (not necessarily the act - I tend towards consequentialism for that).

Why did you choose to have this thread here? Do you think Myers Briggs is related?
Thanks u two :))) and yes it's not related. I knew it but I didnt know where to put it... any suggestions where to put something like this in the future?
 

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I'd try one of the more general forums, not the ones strictly about personality theory
 

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I used to mistrust my intuition - always trying to prove it right with evidence, instead of just following it - but I've never really had a problem with inaccuracy? (I know that sounds super arrogant, but enh)
I'm struggling with this. The hard thing is that when it comes to people, truly manipulative ones will take advantage of the fact people don't trust their gut. So when something seems amiss, but you can't really explain why... it becomes easy to make excuses.

I know this because I'm reading a book about manipulative personalities, after getting out of what I believe was a controlling relationship. I'm surprised I got into that mess, because after my first relationship ended (it was also abusive and controlling), I vowed never to let it happen again. And until recently, there were no repeats. Eight years later... I drive full speed past a bunch of red flags, even kinda knowingly. Lmao. Thankfully I broke it off pretty quickly, overall, but not as quickly as I should have.

Point being, a huge lesson for me on that is to start trusting my intuition more, because... it's usually right on some level.

Now as for you, OP, I don't know what would cause your judgements to be inaccurate, other than that you're trying too quickly to put such a black-or -white label on people, even though people are generally full of gray areas. What do you even mean when you say you try to judge people as "good" or "bad", "friend" or "foe"???
 

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I'm struggling with this. The hard thing is that when it comes to people, truly manipulative ones will take advantage of the fact people don't trust their gut. So when something seems amiss, but you can't really explain why... it becomes easy to make excuses.
It's not just that. They play a sleight of hand as well by mimicking good external behaviours to help you push aside your inner knowing. Afterall you can't just cling to a bad feeling in the face of other people and yourself obstensibly approving of this person. It kind of all points to you being paranoid. They get away with it because the external approvers don't actually know that person very well, they are just viewing a learned behaviour and approving that. Manipulative people play a complex game but they pick their targets. They always go for people who are socially naive and trusting, because it's easier to make these people doubt themselves. And that is what the whole game rests upon.

I follow some basic rules now.

1. If someone's very friendly with you, keep your distance and your guard up until you are sure about this person. Normal friendships don't happen that way. People are naturally wary of each other until their intentions are clear. Polite, courteous, interested yes, but wary.
2. Give it three months for their actions to form a pattern of congruence with you. If they are inconsistent between what they say, and what they do. Drop them like a hot potato.
3. Challenge their idea's, more than once. See how they react. If they disappear into the night....
 

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I think I might be better off if I did not have an excellent ability to read people. My intuition is so spot on and my own method and process so intense that I can predict about how long a person will deal with me and keep things friendly before they betray me and or attempt to stay away from me. Sometimes I feel like Raistlin for those who get the reference or the Cyclops from Krull. Ugh!

In my opinion people are of course self-interested. But I find that there is a cut of folks than can renew positive energy within themselves about true optimism and idealism and they do not lose their ability to support it (and thus me) emotionally within their lives. It takes a lot of emotional intelligence and maturity. As an enneatype 8 and a maudlin 4 as my second enneatype I am simultaneously very strident in my own relationship goals (any type of relationship) and bothered by shame and jealousy where others are possessed of advantages I did not have.

Anyway, I can tell you that everyone is a mix of their good and bad intentions. I find that if you happily expect the best of them and yet do not overtly pressure them they usually surprise you to the good. But if you expect the worst or become guarded and defensive, then you usually get that as well. So Ghandi's advice is very real and relevant beyond even what people realize. Be the way about someone you want them to be. It works.
 

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It's not just that. They play a sleight of hand as well by mimicking good external behaviours to help you push aside your inner knowing. Afterall you can't just cling to a bad feeling in the face of other people and yourself obstensibly approving of this person. It kind of all points to you being paranoid. They get away with it because the external approvers don't actually know that person very well, they are just viewing a learned behaviour and approving that. Manipulative people play a complex game but they pick their targets. They always go for people who are socially naive and trusting, because it's easier to make these people doubt themselves. And that is what the whole game rests upon.
Oh definitely. I was just thinking specifically with regards to trusting vs doubting intuition, which was what hugely screwed me over. I somewhat knew better, or had a suspicion, so I kept certain distance and boundaries up as much as possible... eventually I'd still end up caving to whatever he wanted/suited his interests, because... yeah.... and then I ended up in some actually kinda dangerous situations. At which point I peaced out.

I'm truly astounded by the mindf*ckery involved, impressed even, for him to be able to control someone like me for as long as he did (three months.... but off and on, cuz I kept trying to end it, and he kept convincing me not to lmao), just because I'm pretty well-versed in this. Ah well. It was like a mini refresher course.

I follow some basic rules now.

1. If someone's very friendly with you, keep your distance and your guard up until you are sure about this person. Normal friendships don't happen that way. People are naturally wary of each other until their intentions are clear. Polite, courteous, interested yes, but wary.
2. Give it three months for their actions to form a pattern of congruence with you. If they are inconsistent between what they say, and what they do. Drop them like a hot potato.
3. Challenge their idea's, more than once. See how they react. If they disappear into the night....

I like this. It seems to make sense. Personally it seems like it would take a lot of energy, hyper-vigilance is draining. But that is a VERY good point about #1 in particular, thank you.
 

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Possibly sound smore hyperviligant than I mean. It's easy just to keep your distance (interactions at acquaintance level) for a couple of months. If something's amiss, you'll hear about it on the grapevine within that time frame. This happens to me all the time, I typically meet someone who is very popular but get an ick internal reaction. Within 3 months it's usually common knowledge that actually this person isn't so great, they proven to have low integrity.

Shit stirrers are easily deterred just by you not buying into their gossip and bullshit. Usually a simple, well I don't know if I'd believe that, is enough.
 

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People can be a complex mix of positive and negative energies. I see people as battlegrounds between 'good' and 'evil.' A lot of it comes from practice and experience. Despite what people say, it's not unusual to automatically just know everything without experience too, though some people are naturally more attuned to it. It's a mix of conscious and sub-conscious perception and judgement.
 
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