Personality Cafe banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
77 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A little experiment for you:

Let's say you dated someone. You very much liked, maybe even loved that person. Tragically, they were emotionally unavailable, and while incredibly kind and gentle nonetheless had emotions for a past lover, and/or someone else. It ends on somewhat OK terms, however you're left feeling taken advantage of, and only when all is done does the person ever question their own motives and morality, insisting previously that it was your choice entirely and that they had nothing to do with your potential to get hurt, which you inevitably did.

Now the person very much wishes to remain friends, and wants to go with you to an out-of-city concert, and you agree because you genuinely would like to see the concert and listen to the delicious musics. However, a good friend has invited you to a birthday party where there will be oodles of people of the sex you're interested in that same night, and encourages you to go to meet people.

Now you enter into the mucky morality of life - bare with me here.

So your first choice is to go to the concert. You wouldn't be breaking a promise and you'd get to see a band you like. On the other hand, it could be very uncomfortable seeing as how you still have feelings for the person and they still do for you. It could easily get a little hot, and maybe you'd like that, but it's clear: they won't ever be serious with you any time soon. But they've insisted that they would be serious under different circumstances, and leave the option open in the future. You also know that the person is most likely already dating again and is an extremely aggressive dater. You also know that, for what it's worth, they feel bad.

Your other choice is the birthday party. Your friend who invited you cares deeply about you (real stand up person) and knows how hard your dating woes were with your former canoodler. You could meet a nice, cuddly person who's emotionally available - or maybe you're still too fucked up from the previous engagement to really care? Maybe it ends up being a bust. Maybe that night you feel off - or maybe not. Who knows? But then you'd break the promise you made. Or maybe you meet someone decent?

What a pickle.

Because I'm so curious, how would you INFJs deal with this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
82 Posts
If I was too stressed out emotionally about the situation, I would probably stay home tbh.

But, uh, I guess out of the two options.. go to my friends. I can't imagine wanting to put myself in a uncomfortable situation like that with my ex. Maybe if it wasn't just us too and there were other people involved i would feel more comfortable going.
Also I don't like the thought of waiting around for them to be ready for a serious relationship. If it's my friend who 'cares deeply about me' vs my ex who i'm in an awkward place with atm, it's not really a difficult decision for me.
But I don't really like parties either, so nothing about that option is too appealing to me (except for showing up for my friend). The real decision for me would be whether or not I want to go to the concert with my ex, and if the answer happens to be no, everything else is just finding alternative plans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
175 Posts
I would most likely still go to the concert, since I had already made a promise and plans to, and because I doubt I'd be emotionally ready to start a relationship with another person. I think I would probably try to distance myself emotionally from the person, though, to avoid adding fuel to the fire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,191 Posts
I would have thought our duties to true friends were pretty high on the morality totem pole. If you would have honestly gone to the concert vs the birthday, that's what you should do (your friend would probably want that for you, unless they were going to have a lonely birthday), but it sounds like the real deal that needs to be done here is to acknowledge what your real motivation is, admit it to yourself, and decide if it's worthwhile. I think the situation will become much clearer when you do that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,426 Posts
Morality for Others Vs. Morality for You

If it were me:
Firstly, I would not be able to fully immerse myself in the music because of my preoccupations with having someone I'm interested in so close and knowing fully that, somewhere amid their emotional tangle, they are reciprocating. Secondly, if this is about reestablishing a friendship (with only the person's seeming half-assurance that a relationship could happen in the near future to go by) then a concert is a bad place to reconnect, even as friends because of what hangs in the air. Even the music couldn't drown out the history that hangs above both.
Thirdly, the other person seems thoroughly confused and given that one's own emotional strain is still present, what will be achieved by pretending at some sense of normalcy that isn't really there? Granted, the concert would help distract each other from one another but then what is the end result here? In my opinion, communication is lacking and that means disappointment, disillusionment and a sustained waiting period. One night of music bumping elbows occasionally with someone I'm still interested in and have a history with will not blot out what the next few months are likely to be like for me, in light of having them back in my life but only just.
If one can withstand their own emotions and set aside their unanswered questions for one night, then the concert could provide a chance for this: two friends enjoying music together. But a question: Have you both decided you're friends again? Acquaintances? It should be obvious, but in cases of re-connecting, it almost always isn't.
And so, here's a question: Why? Why pretend at something that is not? If one feels hurt, suppressing it does not undo its existence; it will find other ways to rise to the surface eventually. The concert with the friend would not be starting anew; it would be stumbling along after an awkward pause, where one person sets the pace (yet again) and the other conforms for fear of losing a friend/potential mate. History runs the risk of repeating itself.
Other option: The birthday party would provide new opportunities to socialize with different people. I wouldn't see it immediately as the place to meet my soul mate (or any other variation of a relationship) but it would definitely be a good testing grounds to externalize myself and sharpen socializing skills. It would also provide opportunities to bring me out of myself and my pre-existing condition of "emotionally unavailable". A night of wallowing over the same things without any new information, will do nothing to summon peace of mind.
I would either:
A) Decline the concert and instead schedule a casual lunch a few days afterward to be able to voice questions and concerns. Time has passed and so naturally, this interest is probably an entirely different version of themselves. I would want to know how their perceptions have changed, if at all. Mention starting anew as friends, admit to there being feelings and agree on the pace of a second attempt at friendship, founded on shared respect of each other's feelings. Whether or not a relationship blossoms is immaterial until a friendship is established on grounds that honesty and communication will be ever present. Given the love interest's record of uncertainty, you want to avoid self-delusion about there being anything more. Friendship, relationship or any other -ship will just be a continuation of broken down communication, self-delusion and past emotional poison without a solid foundation.
B) Don't go to the concert or the birthday party and take a day to go out on your own and do the things you most enjoy doing: Going for a walk, the movies, bookstore, visiting family/other acquaintances, etc.
For the record, I understand that holding true to promises is important. However, I've gone through enough subtle manipulation with emotionally confused friends and potential partners to know what to avoid. There are no guarantees the person is aware of their behavior and thus, it couldn't hurt to let them know how you felt during that time and how you feel now.
If you've heard something like this: "Hey I told you; I wasn't available. Obviously, if you were getting hurt, you didn't have to stay," best start asking questions both of yourself and of this person.
-Is this person genuinely unaware of how they come off? Or is there a genuine lack of accountability for their actions? Or both?
-Be wary of a person who may subject you to their emotional baggage (Ex. Emotional unavailability) and though they are appreciative and kind (and agreed to a relationship), will continue with the same modes of behavior.
-Question how much is your responsibility to bear and what are your intentions.
-Having your support can be taken as tacit compliance to allow someone to go down similar paths, with you in tow. Do you allow this to happen out of a sincere hope for change? Is that hope well founded?
-Is being a good friend/significant other imply that one must be a yes-man? What are you agreeing to, if the song remains the same and your heart hangs in the balance?
-The situation will inherently become manipulative because though both people have mutual feelings for one another, it seems the person who had those feelings first is still playing emotional serf to a love interest who is still emotionally tangled. Is the possibility that one will abruptly leave the other hanging the unifying bond? If so, is that healthy?
Consider: If you decide to stay, does the love interest expect you to clarify their situation for them?
Be true about your pre-existing feelings and either start completely anew with a friendship that can slowly build itself back up on the grounds of mutual respect, honesty and communication or it doesn't fly and nor does any other notion of a renewed connection.
After all, better to be alone than to be together (however loosely defined) and feel truly lonesome.
Thank you very much for reading!
-LN
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
I know I am not an INFJ, & that I am an INTJ, but I thought, what the hell.
I would say go to the party, as someone else mentioned, it would be so much easier going to the party than the concert since it would be awkward with your ex. Plus as you mentioned, they used you. Are they worth the trouble? Go to the party & enjoy it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
On one hand go somewhere with someone who does not return your love and on the other go to a party while you are pining for the one you should have went to the concert with.

I do not envy your position, and as I have no advice on the subject it makes this post a complete waste of everybody's time. Thank you and goodnight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,487 Posts
A little experiment for you:

Let's say you dated someone. You very much liked, maybe even loved that person. Tragically, they were emotionally unavailable, and while incredibly kind and gentle nonetheless had emotions for a past lover, and/or someone else.Now the person very much wishes to remain friends, and wants to go with you to an out-of-city concert,

It could easily get a little hot, and maybe you'd like that, but it's clear: they won't ever be serious with you any time soon. But they've insisted that they would be serious under different circumstances, and leave the option open in the future. You also know that the person is most likely already dating again and is an extremely aggressive dater. You also know that, for what it's worth, they feel bad.
This is more commonly known as "having your cake and eating it" on the part of the ex.

No brainer. You're worth more than that.

You go to the party.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moon Juice

·
Banned
Joined
·
77 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So far the tally looks like:

Birthday party - 6
Concert - 3

Seems like the consensus is leaning towards friends. Keep in mind however that this isn't a friend's birthday party, this is his friend's birthday party (someone I don't know). My friend is a person whose wisdom I trust, and who genuinely wants the best for me. He specifically invited me to help me out. Going to the concert also means rejecting his attempt at helping me.

On the one hand, I could either break a semi-promise I made to a person who, yes, cares about me but not for me in the giving sense (an important distinction) and ultimately used me to forget about a former lover, and who I know is going to continue to make decisions which will leave people hurt and used. On a deep philosophical and moral basis I strongly disagree with that aspect of her, whose actions impacted me negatively and whose own personal philosophy meant she initially refused to accept responsibility, and is now struggling with that same philosophy, now finding it... lacking.

But I'd like to go to the concert. If it were any other friend, I'd say concert, hands down. It's that it's this specific person that I know I can never be good friends with; if she were to share everything, I would not have the character to respect her. She doesn't share everything with her best friend for the same reason. It's just a limitation of mine. In short, I don't trust her in the least or myself around her. But then I have trust issues. She would like to be friends with me but also knows that I would not be able to respect her in a meaningful way. Which of course makes me incredulous that any deep friendship is ever possible with the person. So I wonder - what's the point?

It makes me question my own intentions. Am I not going simply to disapprove of her, and in a way punish her? That's not fair. She's looking forward to the concert, as am I, and we both intend / intended to go. I have no idea if I can even be friends with her. She assures me that I technically 'won' against her other interests, and that in other circumstances she would be completely dedicated - but my own philosophy believes in action, not just empty promises and talk. Likewise, if her ex were at her door she'd be back in a heartbeat - so what did I ever matter? As Killbain said, having your cake and eating it too. Is she trying to save face? Am I an asshole for not believing it at all?

Given the complexity of her and the situation in general, part of me just never wants to talk to her again. She's a lot of contradictory things; a cheater, a great lover, self-absorbed, a great friend, intelligent, foolish, etc. But I'm not better than her. I make mistakes too, though admittedly not as significant lol. Part of me thinks - maybe I just caught her at a bad time. But then when is there ever a good time?

Also thanks Lady Nurture, those questions have entered into my mind in some form. They're definitely important considerations.

Anyway, your input is really appreciated. The situation is heavy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lady Nurture

·
Registered
INFJ 6w5, 1w2, 2w1 Sx/Sp
Joined
·
10,590 Posts
Send your identical twin to the concert and go to the party. Problem solved :)

Seriously though, I would go to the party even though I HATE breaking promises. Grr... this is a toughie. I probably would wind up going to the concert I guess.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
How good is the concert? Is it possible to head to both places? Do you actually gain more from going to the concert?

Out of pride, I would say party. However, there are a lot more people you can meet at a concert, and the night will probably have greater potential. It's basically a choice between pride and opportunity, and only you know which is more important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,803 Posts
I would honor my promise, and try my best not to let anything happen with the person (to avoid getting myself any further attached).

That's just me, though.
This is my first thought, only because there could be even more drama if you back out, where as your good friend might understand since you already had the previous engagement. Even if going to the concert is the last time you ever talk to this person, you'll still end off on good terms.. If you try to not let the emotions and stuff make you do weird things. Good luck.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
77 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
How good is the concert? Is it possible to head to both places? Do you actually gain more from going to the concert?

Out of pride, I would say party. However, there are a lot more people you can meet at a concert, and the night will probably have greater potential. It's basically a choice between pride and opportunity, and only you know which is more important.
The concert is out of my city (Montreal, about an hour away) and I'm driving. And to be honest I'd never ask anyone out in her presence, I would consider it disrespectful to her (though she would probably not return the favour) and simply because I emotionally wouldn't be able to. Pride and opportunity are at the party. Facing my fears is the concert. Or maybe it'll just end up being masochistic. Being trapped in another city with a former lover is the fear. The last time we tried 'hanging out' things were extremely tense and eventually got heated. To her, the perfect scenario is to be able to do everything she wants to do with me and other people.

The worst part is that I would have to hide the concert thing from friends because they'd be disappointed in me if they knew I was going there with her, them knowing the history of events and all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,199 Posts
I find the hypothetical from my standpoint unfair. I would have never made the promise in the first place since that binds me to that obligation and if something like the party came up I would be obligated to the concert. However, I understand that this is in relation to you and assuming that this hypothetical is true, I would need to consider several things first.

I have been in this situation before, earlier this year. I promised a friend (though a bit drunk, I must say) that I would go to his birthday party before I changed cities. I actually liked this guy, unlike the other people who were also attending. I was not on good terms with the people attending, and it had started to improve after the night I had promised (was not a byproduct of that). I didn't have any other plans, so why not, right?
Later another friend of mine from a different school invited me to go out to eat with him and his friends (with whom I was also friends with) on the same day around the same time. I could have made the both events by splitting the times, but I said no to my friend's birthday party because I honestly did not think I would have fun or be comfortable there.

Did I feel like a jackass? Yes, in all honesty, I did. I broke a promise to a friend of mine and came off as an even bigger asshole to the other people there for doing so. But really, I had to ask myself: do I give a shit about these people? The answer was no. No, I didn't. Sounds mean, but these people didn't fit into my life and I wasn't the only one at fault (because they had hurt me in the past and placed blame on me).

But I'd like to go to the concert. If it were any other friend, I'd say concert, hands down. It's that it's this specific person that I know I can never be good friends with; if she were to share everything, I would not have the character to respect her. She doesn't share everything with her best friend for the same reason. It's just a limitation of mine. In short, I don't trust her in the least or myself around her. But then I have trust issues. She would like to be friends with me but also knows that I would not be able to respect her in a meaningful way. Which of course makes me incredulous that any deep friendship is ever possible with the person. So I wonder - what's the point?
My question is, who's more important - her feelings or yours? If it's over and you can't fully trust her, she's gotta definitely earn that back. I can't determine whether she's doing that or not, trying to earn back your trust, that's on you. I think it depends on the level of violation here. You need to also introspect and see if what you feel about being taken advantage of is valid or not. Does she know about this? If not, I would strongly suggest talking to her about the state of relations between you two before you even consider making a decision.

The second thing I am going to ask you, is what are you going to get out of each event? You need to decide what's important to you here - your relation with your ex, or the opportunities to meet new people? Again, this is dependent on how I felt regarding the last relationship. I can't say I know how you feel because we feel differently. If I don't truly want to be friends with this person again - if I can't see this person being some sort of positive aspect in my life, and especially if I think they are going to continue being a negative impact - then I wouldn't want to put that much effort, if any, into them. I personally see the birthday party as a great opportunity and I would take it in a heartbeat were I not already obligated. However, also consider that you are able to meet new people in groups at yet another time.

Here are the possible consequences I see:
- If you choose to go to the birthday party, you will have opportunities to meet new people. You won't have to potentially have an awkward time with your ex, but you also might have to bear the party with a heavy conscience (as long as you keep yourself distracted, this is okay). However, this might offend your ex, and depending on how she is, she might cut you out.
- If you choose to go to the concert, it might be awkward depending on how it goes, but you won't feel guilty about anything - your friend will understand that you had made a promise (hopefully). You'll have missed out on some opportunities, but hey, there'll always be more.

My short take on the situation:
If you already made firm plans concerning the concert - i.e., you've already bought tickets and everything - go to that. If you haven't, try going to the birthday party. The latter means that you should talk to her about the state of relationship and then in a separate conversation a decision to go to the party instead. Consider what's important to you. Could you live possibly having an enemy (that is, you might not get along with your ex)?

Whatever you do, don't make your decision last-minute. Give some forewarning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
643 Posts
Sounds like you my have an early to mid twenties ENTP on your hand, may I get a verification on this?

Are you unsure about your own ability to maintain friendship with this person? Does it sound like a nice idea but still not feel especially plausible? I'm not sure how to advise you because of my uncertainty here.

But, when you start blowing off friends, and even other things you actually enjoy in and of themself (the concert) to keep on the love hunt, I think you're selling yourself and your friend short. There are opportunities to go to places with lots of the opposite sex all the time. I don't really see what's so appealing here that you might break plans, unless you really want to get yourself out of the danger you might feel around sticking to your plans and that person.

Is this all symptomatic of an overall want to retreat from interaction with that person on a large scale, or is there something truly special about this opportunity to hunt for a lover?

Personally, I'd stick to the agreements I made unless I really felt that I couldn't maintain a decent state of being happy and in control of myself, or if I had come to a point of acting on my feelings of wanting to significantly distance myself from them.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
77 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Sounds like you my have an early to mid twenties ENTP on your hand, may I get a verification on this?

Are you unsure about your own ability to maintain friendship with this person? Does it sound like a nice idea but still not feel especially plausible? I'm not sure how to advise you because of my uncertainty here.
INFP / INTP. I'd wager closer to INFP.

As for the friendship, like I said - is it worth it? She'd have to keep half her life a secret from me if I were to ever respect her. Like I said, it's a limitation on my part. My friends are a certain type of person. I have that typical 5 - 10 people who are borderline immaculate in terms of morality. Sure they make mistakes, but my friends are honestly upstanding. I can't stress enough that these people are the best. They have very peaceful lives and I'm very happy for them.

And I know, that's just it - I get nothing really from the whole party thing.

I'm kind of leaning towards the concert. It's just so damn stoic to do that. You know, go down with the ship and all that. But it may backfire. And I may remember all the ways I was used (woah, dusey). But I'll do it anyway because flaming wreckage is cool.

I hope you can detect that sarcasm. But yeah I'll give it a try... worst case, things just sort of stay where they are: silently unpleasant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
917 Posts
Concert. Detach emotionally from the partner for the duration, enjoy badass live band, go home, relax.

Sorted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: beast in peace
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top