Under no circumstances could I consider intelligence more important than moral behavior. I am of above-average intelligence by all measures I've encountered, but really if I saw myself as less moral than the average, I would find that unconscionably loathsome, because I evaluate myself and others morally based on my own personal values. It's hard for me to imagine someone considering themselves less moral than most people and not seeing that as something that needs to be fixed. So I'll say that I consider myself more intelligent, and more moral, than the average.
More moral and/or more intelligent than others?
The Muhammad Ali effect, according to wiki:
So, do you agree or not? Because I'm the opposite - I think I'm less moral and more intelligent that most people. Do you think that Enneagram and MBTI might play a role in the answer?The Muhammad Ali Effect is a term used in psychology that was named after him when he stated, "I only said I was the greatest, not the smartest" in his autobiography The Greatest: My Own Story. According to this effect, when people are asked to rate their intelligence and moral behavior in comparison to others, people will rate themselves as more moral, but not more intelligent than others.
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There is psychologist named Jonathan Haidt who believes he and his colleagues have found six universal moral foundations. Although they exist in all known cultures there is a variation, for example with political view and personality. According to this theory it seems you would score high on the Loyalty/betrayal, and Liberty/oppression, and Care/harm dimensions.Yeah, I mean what is "moral" anyway? Doing what you believe is right?
So it doesn't even matter whether your morals emulate the conventional wisdom, you still have some.
(For example, I would consider "intellectual honesty" to be a typical moral for INTPs.)
So I think the question is vague and misleading as proposed.
That being said, @Staffan's comments seem right on... I think that Thinkers are more likely to "deduce" their morals from information; the information changes, the moral will change. Feelers are actually keying off something internal to themselves and when that anchor changes, the moral changes, and external information can be ignored if the inner moral compass is still firmly valuing what it has always valued.
For my morals, I typically try to:
1. Keep my promises even at my own expense.
2. Retain intellectual honesty regardless of my feelings.
3. Be open to other people and their experiences, without simply writing them off.
4. Treat other people with dignity rather than dehumanizing them.
But these are broad philanthropical morals, rather than "don't lie, don't drink, don't murder, don't swear, etc." or uttering words like, "Well, I don't do THAT."
I've been meaning to do some kind of poll on that but here is the homepage with a test:Moral Foundations Theory Homepage
And here Haidt is doing his TED talk:
Jesus.......
I know a little and I try to live pretty righteously.
I don't pride myself in being above the cut in either, or one of the two will inevitably suffer...won't it
?
I don't pride myself in being above the cut in either, or one of the two will inevitably suffer...won't it
?
Cool, thank you for the link.There is psychologist named Jonathan Haidt who believes he and his colleagues have found six universal moral foundations. Although they exist in all known cultures there is a variation, for example with political view and personality. According to this theory it seems you would score high on the Loyalty/betrayal, and Liberty/oppression, and Care/harm dimensions.
I've been meaning to do some kind of poll on that but here is the homepage with a test:Moral Foundations Theory Homepage
Another value I forgot is "not controlling others." That's a big deal to me. I try very hard to avoid control or manipulation, to me it's a form of possession and I don't want to interfere with their autonomy.
Is that your feet? I rarely see anyone who has the same wide spaced toes as I have.I know a little and I try to live pretty righteously.
I don't pride myself in being above the cut in either, or one of the two will inevitably suffer...won't it
Haha. I got a little self-conscious, there. Yea, I just never got into the whole "shoes" craze. I only wear them out of necessity, even now. I figure that has a lot to do with it, since my parents didn't really share the trait.Is that your feet? I rarely see anyone who has the same wide spaced toes as I have.
I have no idea how intelligent I am compared to the general population. I don't think my ACT score, my degree in finance, or a silly online IQ test I have taken really measure this. But I do think I am more moral than the average.
My friend is a liberal and I am a conservative. She knows I am more intelligent than her and has even made a comment to me about it. My therapist confirms this. As for morality, we are about equal although we did not always see eye to eye. I was more moral.There is some research to suggest that liberals have higher intelligence, which is in line with them scoring higher on Big Five Openness, a trait strongly correlated to IQ. This of course should not be construed as evidence that the liberal position is somehow objectively better.
But are liberals morally superior? I can't say I see that. They just seem to focus on other questions than conservatives.
Did you watch the TED lecture of Jonathan Haidt that I linked above? It's really interesting and worth the time. He suggests that the difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals focus on justice and caring about other people - which conservatives do too - but that they reject authority, ingroup loyalty and purity/sanctity that conservatives embrace. Haidt means that all the great civilizations were built using all these principles and that it's all about finding a balance and a proper implementation of them - if I understand him right.My friend is a liberal and I am a conservative. She knows I am more intelligent than her and has even made a comment to me about it. My therapist confirms this. As for morality, we are about equal although we did not always see eye to eye. I was more moral.
- definitely more intelligent than average
- I wouldn't say I focus on morality more than most people, but I think my values are much more adequately defined and congruent than most people. what does that count as?
- I wouldn't say I focus on morality more than most people, but I think my values are much more adequately defined and congruent than most people. what does that count as?
For me, I choose to be more moral than I really am internally because it serves to set me apart from those society considers immoral. Immorality is bad for business, it's bad for one's image .... hence I decided to take on a persona of being morally pure at a young age. Internally, my views are very different from how I choose to act externally. When I was young and immature, I went the people pleasing route .. I let them think whatever they wanted of me and they were all very craftily created images.
Buried deep is a very hedonistic version of myself that comes out to play when no one is watching. And that ability to be ablr to what I want to be made me believe I was a lot smarter than everyone else as well ... however, I shed my masks last year and realized that I did manage to create some very strong moral values along the years and I hold myself to those values.
Buried deep is a very hedonistic version of myself that comes out to play when no one is watching. And that ability to be ablr to what I want to be made me believe I was a lot smarter than everyone else as well ... however, I shed my masks last year and realized that I did manage to create some very strong moral values along the years and I hold myself to those values.
I think "morality" in the outward sense, your own personal actions, is directly irrelevant to personality. The way you interact with and process the world in general is one thing, but what you restrain yourself from doing and whether force yourself to do virtuous things despite the consequences shapes your morality. You could be the most intelligent person in the world, but a prick, or be a very simple-minded person who has unwavering dedication to what they feel is right.
However, personality can be relevant in an indirect sense. There might actually be moral predispositions in certain areas for certain personalities. I've read that INTPs are inclined to be more loyal, less judgmental, et cetera. I'm sure the other personality types also have predispositions toward things which are conductive to moral action. However, once again, they become irrelevant in the sense that one can override anything predisposed, whether it's a predisposition toward what we'd consider immoral or a predisposition toward the moral.
However, personality can be relevant in an indirect sense. There might actually be moral predispositions in certain areas for certain personalities. I've read that INTPs are inclined to be more loyal, less judgmental, et cetera. I'm sure the other personality types also have predispositions toward things which are conductive to moral action. However, once again, they become irrelevant in the sense that one can override anything predisposed, whether it's a predisposition toward what we'd consider immoral or a predisposition toward the moral.
Every person, when making a moral decision, is convinced that their decision is the most moral.
What I ask is what kind of morals I am comparing my own to? What makes something more moral than another? Is it the idea of equality? That's a western ideology. From my observation, I am more concerned with equality than many others. Placing my moral values in the middle eastern society with an Islamic moral ideology, I would be viewed as an immoral person. In a society that views anything in a way that conflicts with my personal moral views, most of which are from this western ideology (I AM being raised in western culture, after all), I would be viewed as an immoral person by that society.
I can't honestly answer the question posed, because I find the question to be flawed. There would have to be something to base my comparison off of, such as a person, group, or nation's morals and values.
What I ask is what kind of morals I am comparing my own to? What makes something more moral than another? Is it the idea of equality? That's a western ideology. From my observation, I am more concerned with equality than many others. Placing my moral values in the middle eastern society with an Islamic moral ideology, I would be viewed as an immoral person. In a society that views anything in a way that conflicts with my personal moral views, most of which are from this western ideology (I AM being raised in western culture, after all), I would be viewed as an immoral person by that society.
I can't honestly answer the question posed, because I find the question to be flawed. There would have to be something to base my comparison off of, such as a person, group, or nation's morals and values.
I agree with you for the most part, but I have to say that the question is what you believe, so it doesn't really matter if you base it off of anything... according the question.Every person, when making a moral decision, is convinced that their decision is the most moral.
What I ask is what kind of morals I am comparing my own to? What makes something more moral than another? Is it the idea of equality? That's a western ideology. From my observation, I am more concerned with equality than many others. Placing my moral values in the middle eastern society with an Islamic moral ideology, I would be viewed as an immoral person. In a society that views anything in a way that conflicts with my personal moral views, most of which are from this western ideology (I AM being raised in western culture, after all), I would be viewed as an immoral person by that society.
I can't honestly answer the question posed, because I find the question to be flawed. There would have to be something to base my comparison off of, such as a person, group, or nation's morals and values.
either way, as for the bolded part... I (as well as with a few other people on this thread, apparently, I have noticed) do not think I more moral than most others. in fact even many Americans may consider me quite immoral. the most liberal of liberals on the planet might even. and I don't deny this either... not even in my own mind do I consider myself more moral than any given person I may be chatting with (not to say I am a despicable person, I wouldn't say that either). just sayin'.
I think all morals are total crap (not to say we should just run rampant in the streets, I'm not saying that, just making a point is all) because they are not really based off of anything, they are just human beings claiming to know what is right and wrong(own minds, or in public) (and that goes for any culture btw) its just us[humans] looking for another way to validate our place in existence... and giving it some sort of 'government', if you will, in order to do so. but I apologize to all the religious people out there who may have read this post, sorry, I am obviously not religious.
I know I have been called intelligent. I feel like I am more intelligent than others, sometimes. I know I am in a place where I am surrounded by well educated and intellectual people and I can "hold my own" so to speak when conversing with them. It depends on the definition of intelligence and who I am being compared to, I suppose. I will go with yes, I think I would consider myself more intelligent in some ways than others.
People would definitely call me moral. I think I would consider myself moral as well. Morality and intelligence are equally important to me. I think I will say yes to both for these reasons.
People would definitely call me moral. I think I would consider myself moral as well. Morality and intelligence are equally important to me. I think I will say yes to both for these reasons.
I'm not more moral or intelligent than anyone around here...
I have definitive morals but I do not feel they are limiting to me in any way. I'm a loosely practicing Buddhist at best and basically believe in 'harm none.' So long as you aren't harming another, do whatever the heck you want, I won't care.
I don't believe my morals have affected my intelligence at all though, I've always been a bit on the slow side and I've always hated it.
I don't believe my morals have affected my intelligence at all though, I've always been a bit on the slow side and I've always hated it.
look into critical race theory and see how much sense their liberal/modern ideas make (i may be confusing the term liberal, but so many words are used for many different purposes that it kind of depends on one's own definition). it's basically a reverse on the "power-structure" in order to further social revenge. it's obvious, and a common technique they use in order to side-track anyone with common sense is that "logic" is the "white-man's evil tool" and therefore has to be ignored in order to further truth.There is some research to suggest that liberals have higher intelligence, which is in line with them scoring higher on Big Five Openness, a trait strongly correlated to IQ. This of course should not be construed as evidence that the liberal position is somehow objectively better.
But are liberals morally superior? I can't say I see that. They just seem to focus on other questions than conservatives.
(if i'm wrong on any of this, please point it out to me--it really bothers me that there's movements like this one and i'd very much like to be wrong).
side note: morality and intelligence really go hand-in-hand. it's hard to have one and not the other, but very easy to appear to have one and be deficient in the other.
I'm not more intelligent and/or more moral than others. Intelligence is a characteristic everyone possesses in different levels and/or is utilized in various circumstances, so it's not fair for me to say some are more intelligent than others. I think that not everyone has the same need to display their knowledge or become knowledgeable about certain things unless it interests them.
Just like with morals, it depends on the individual's perception. Morality can be flexible, but I do think there are clear right and wrongs.
Just like with morals, it depends on the individual's perception. Morality can be flexible, but I do think there are clear right and wrongs.
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