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All of the confirmed ISTPs I've known have not been at all manipulative. They've all been very straight shooters. I'm a straight shooter to the point of being naive. But, I am wondering which type you think is most manipulative? Someone at work tried to manipulate me today. She's in a position of power, but completely self interested and not very sophisticated in her efforts. I'm thinking she might be an ESTP. Not sure about the ST part though. Maybe an ENTP or ESFP? Crap--she was a manipulative sob and I kicked her butt right back today, but what an ugly process. So, who do you guys think is the most manipulative of the types?:angry:
 

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I know at least one reallly twisted ESFJ (unconfirmed but I am pretty sure that's the type). (As in, ESFJ "gone wrong".)

The crazy part is... this person thinks he is totally right and/or can justify pretty much anything. : / Scary.

People who need approval this bad though will be governed by others' opinions of them (at least in public).

Portrait of an ESFJ

"ESFJs who have not had the advantage of developing their own values by weighing them against a good external value system may develop very questionable values. In such cases, the ESFJ most often genuinely believes in the integrity of their skewed value system. They have no internal understanding of values to set them straight. In weighing their values against our society, they find plenty of support for whatever moral transgression they wish to justify. This type of ESFJ is a dangerous person indeed. Extraverted Feeling drives them to control and manipulate, and their lack of Intuition prevents them from seeing the big picture. They're usually quite popular and good with people, and good at manipulating them. Unlike their ENFJ cousin, they don't have Intuition to help them understand the real consequences of their actions. They are driven to manipulate other to achieve their own ends, yet they believe that they are following a solid moral code of conduct."

P.S. Don't at all mean to insinuate that ALL ESFJs are like this. I just know one example.
 

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Anyone who leverages the power of their greater knowledge (of human psychology or stocks or whatever) or charm in order to influence (for their own benefit) the actions of those who have less knowledge/awareness can be said to be manipulative, no? I'm normally pretty honest, but I know I've tried to sway people through insinuations and implied statements before without baldly stating what it was I REALLY wanted.

I know ENFPs can use their overpowering enthusiasm and powerful extraverted Thinking to strongarm people toward a specific choice, through a barrage of arguments that seem to have a seamless and objective logic, but which serves to throw a cover over their naked wishes and vulnerable core. An ISTP can also be manipulative in his own way. Mine always knows how to wiggle his way out of doing dishes or other chores. Manipulation merely takes a little confidence and a bit of past experience that has taught the manipulator some subtle, successful tricks in getting their way. I think everybody learns at least a few just in the process of growing up. Most people learn that just saying what you want doesn't always work.

I have no idea who the most manipulative type is or which type your manipulator might be, but a couple ENFJs I know are more obvious than most at 'pushing' people toward their OWN agendas via many tactics of persuasion, such as guilt-tripping, obligation, withdrawal, persistence, etc. But they can also be arguably the 'friendliest' or most 'charming' type by other criteria.
 

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I think you have to be more specific. I just read Seamaid's comments. There is persuasion, control, manipulation, and they are all very different terms. To sell, you have to be persuasive. To have a boss or a husband or wife who is very controlling sucks. Manipulating things by a leader in a meeting, well, that is politics. To be an effective leader, you must sell and get the support of your people. I work in politics, but only in issue oriented aspect of it. That way I get to lobby on both sides of the aisle for the community. That makes me unique and respected by politicians, as I am not motivated by business interests, but that is sort of off the topic.
Regards
Digger Blue
 

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Anyone who leverages the power of their greater knowledge (of human psychology or stocks or whatever) or charm in order to influence (for their own benefit) the actions of those who have less knowledge/awareness can be said to be manipulative, no? I'm normally pretty honest, but I know I've tried to sway people through insinuations and implied statements before without baldly stating what it was I REALLY wanted.

I know ENFPs can use their overpowering enthusiasm and powerful extraverted Thinking to strongarm people toward a specific choice, through a barrage of arguments that seem to have a seamless and objective logic, but which serves to throw a cover over their naked wishes and vulnerable core. An ISTP can also be manipulative in his own way. Mine always knows how to wiggle his way out of doing dishes or other chores. Manipulation merely takes a little confidence and a bit of past experience that has taught the manipulator some subtle, successful tricks in getting their way. I think everybody learns at least a few just in the process of growing up. Most people learn that just saying what you want doesn't always work.

I have no idea who the most manipulative type is or which type your manipulator might be, but a couple ENFJs I know are more obvious than most at 'pushing' people toward their OWN agendas via many tactics of persuasion, such as guilt-tripping, obligation, withdrawal, persistence, etc. But they can also be arguably the 'friendliest' or most 'charming' type by other criteria.
I absolutely agree. I don't know what the most manipulative type is, but in my experience, unhealthy xSFJs can be highly manipulative, emotionally.
 

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Anyone who leverages the power of their greater knowledge (of human psychology or stocks or whatever) or charm in order to influence (for their own benefit) the actions of those who have less knowledge/awareness can be said to be manipulative, no? I'm normally pretty honest, but I know I've tried to sway people through insinuations and implied statements before without baldly stating what it was I REALLY wanted.

I know ENFPs can use their overpowering enthusiasm and powerful extraverted Thinking to strongarm people toward a specific choice, through a barrage of arguments that seem to have a seamless and objective logic, but which serves to throw a cover over their naked wishes and vulnerable core. An ISTP can also be manipulative in his own way. Mine always knows how to wiggle his way out of doing dishes or other chores. Manipulation merely takes a little confidence and a bit of past experience that has taught the manipulator some subtle, successful tricks in getting their way. I think everybody learns at least a few just in the process of growing up. Most people learn that just saying what you want doesn't always work.

I have no idea who the most manipulative type is or which type your manipulator might be, but a couple ENFJs I know are more obvious than most at 'pushing' people toward their OWN agendas via many tactics of persuasion, such as guilt-tripping, obligation, withdrawal, persistence, etc. But they can also be arguably the 'friendliest' or most 'charming' type by other criteria.
My mother is ESFJ and we have some serious relationship problems. She is very manipulative and controlling, but with her weak intuition, she can't see it at all, so I see no chance of her changing her ways.

I am very good at getting what I want out of a situation. Is that manipulation? Perhaps, but if I'm not making someone else to do something that they don't want to do, is that a problem? (Idk, I am an only child and quite used to getting what I want, so perhaps this isn't the norm--maybe I could use some insight.)

I don't consciously try to do things that would be considered manipulative, but I have been accused of manipulating people, but it's never with a malicious intent.

I would also think that ESTPs would be potential manipulators...
 
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Any type...
Type doesn't make the person manipulative, it might influence HOW they manipulate but there's no reason to say any type is more manipulative than the other. I know manipulative people of many of the types.
An ESFJ and ISTP I know vaguely differ only in the sense that the ISTP tends to manipulate less often because he can't be bothered to be involved with people as much as regular manipulation would require. He's just as good at it and uses it to similar ends as the ESFJ, the ESFJ is simply more persistent with it.
 

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From people I've met so far - ENTP, ESTP, ENFJ.
ENTPs and ESTPs imho are the best at it because I can see how they can switch between their auxiliary and tertiary functions - their logical self-interest Ti and their social feeling side Fe. They have a good sense of what they want and where they stand, since Ti is their auxiliary function, but at the same time can call on group values, call on their friends or make an emotional appeal via their tertiary Fe. As extraverts they usually have good verbal skills too. I'm probably biased in my perception as I think there are types which are more susceptible to each other's attempts at manipulation.

INFJs can be manipulative also. You just have convince us first what is the point in it. I'm reading a book right now by a fellow INFJ where he describes how he and bunch of his friends were on a trip in Georgia. So one day they were walking along the street on the outskirts of town somewhere when they see a car slowly approaching them from behind loaded with five locals with clearly hostile intentions. They start getting jittery of course. The INFJ guy tells his friends to not run but continue walking at same pace. When the car overtakes them, he suddenly smiles and starts speaking very loudly to the driver as if he knows him in very friendly terms, asking him if he has recognized him, that 3 years ago he gave him a lift and treated him to some alcohol (none of it is true of course). That he remembered him right away, and he is such a great guy, and it is his turn now to treat him to some wine. The driver, who is clearly this hostile group's leader, is at first unsure but then the wish to appear magnanimous overtakes him and he agrees. Later on when they were drunk as hell the dudes from the car reveal that they are part of the local nationalist group and were planning to gun them all down as foreigners. So INFJ dude's appeal to local values of hospitality has saved their lives - an example of positive emotional manipulation.
 

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Chances are that behavior is limited to judgers for most part, regardless of type. Though it'll depend on the maturity of the individual and what their personal value system looks like.
 

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Anyone who leverages the power of their greater knowledge (of human psychology or stocks or whatever) or charm in order to influence (for their own benefit) the actions of those who have less knowledge/awareness can be said to be manipulative, no? I'm normally pretty honest, but I know I've tried to sway people through insinuations and implied statements before without baldly stating what it was I REALLY wanted.

I know ENFPs can use their overpowering enthusiasm and powerful extraverted Thinking to strongarm people toward a specific choice, through a barrage of arguments that seem to have a seamless and objective logic, but which serves to throw a cover over their naked wishes and vulnerable core. An ISTP can also be manipulative in his own way. Mine always knows how to wiggle his way out of doing dishes or other chores. Manipulation merely takes a little confidence and a bit of past experience that has taught the manipulator some subtle, successful tricks in getting their way. I think everybody learns at least a few just in the process of growing up. Most people learn that just saying what you want doesn't always work.

I have no idea who the most manipulative type is or which type your manipulator might be, but a couple ENFJs I know are more obvious than most at 'pushing' people toward their OWN agendas via many tactics of persuasion, such as guilt-tripping, obligation, withdrawal, persistence, etc. But they can also be arguably the 'friendliest' or most 'charming' type by other criteria.

yeah, I consider us ISTPs (well, myself anyways) to be more or less as passive manipulator. When I have my moments, I tend to be extremely subtle, IE: Veiled expressions, Insinuations.
 

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When I was younger I used to manipulate people to do things. It wasn't mean spirited at all, more like planting ideas in people's heads of things they would do anyway like people asking each other out or doing something mischievous in school (so much fun to have people do your dirty work). I gave up (or grew out of) being advice provider for all of my friends and probably the manipulation went with that.
 

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INFJ's with daddy issues.

"If only some big strong man would come save me, my life is terrible... GOTCHA, YOU'RE SOUL IS MINE!"

At this point I think I'm starting to become incredibly manipulative in a sense. I'm a chameleon of sorts and know how to bring people onto my side based on the knowledge of their inferior functions, and my ability to call upon my secret bubbliness at whim. Certain personalities are immune though, namely NJ's, because I don't understand them... yet.
 

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INFJ's with daddy issues.

"If only some big strong man would come save me, my life is terrible... GOTCHA, YOU'RE SOUL IS MINE!"

At this point I think I'm starting to become incredibly manipulative in a sense. I'm a chameleon of sorts and know how to bring people onto my side based on the knowledge of their inferior functions, and my ability to call upon my secret bubbliness at whim. Certain personalities are immune though, namely NJ's, because I don't understand them... yet.
I'm married to an NJ. they're really weird.
 

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I'm married to an NJ. they're really weird.
I don't think I know any NJ's, but that does sound like it would make for a very odd individual.....
 

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ESFP by far.
I'm sure there are manipulative people of any type out there, but these have it in their blood or something.
 

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I don't know which is the most manipulative but as an ENFP, I know that I am told that I'm manipulative. But I don't mean to do it; it's completely unconcious, which is somewhat unsettling.
 

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I don't know which is the most manipulative but as an ENFP, I know that I am told that I'm manipulative. But I don't mean to do it; it's completely unconcious, which is somewhat unsettling.
Yep. It's never with malicious intent, and we don't really even view our behavior as manipulative, but it is perceived that way by others at times. I don't know what to do about that....:unsure:

EDIT: I think all types are capable of manipulation. I think the motivation and reasoning behind it may be different for different types, but I think everyone does it to some degree. Also, it's manifested in different ways by different types.
 

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I don't know which is the most manipulative but as an ENFP, I know that I am told that I'm manipulative. But I don't mean to do it; it's completely unconcious, which is somewhat unsettling.
I've had the same experience, and yes it IS unsettling. I chalk it up to not being good at asking for emotional support when I need it. Just because we're in touch with our emotions doesn't mean we know the best way of conveying them to others.
 

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I agree with IONOFAGES in that any type can be manipulative-just in their own way-I dont think it is so much personality type as it is the person. I could manipulate people if I wanted to, and have had to in some circumstances, but I do so usually for protective reasons, etc.-. I manipulate my kids-but hell, they manipulate right back. I think we all can and do manipulate when necessary but what type of manipulation, and for what reasons, makes a big difference to me. I would possibly manipulate someone if it helped them-maybe-but I would not manipulate someone to hurt them, so that is where I find my own boundaries.
 

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INFJ's with daddy issues.

"If only some big strong man would come save me, my life is terrible... GOTCHA, YOU'RE SOUL IS MINE!"
Hah, that sounds a lot like my last relationship. She came across as the shy, timid sensitive type but she was really a man eater.

That's why I dumped her...well she dumped me but I was gonna, just as soon as she untied me.
 
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