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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've had some debates on this forum about oversimplification and misinterpretation of the function attitudes (Ne, Ni, Se, Si, Te, Ti, Fe, Fi), essentially because they say I was relying too heavily on other experts' work and not coming back enough to the original theory.

So, in the spirit of learning for everyone, I thought it would be interesting to give the floor to those who feel like they are very knowledgeable on cognitive functions and talk about which of the 8 cognitive function attitudes are the most misunderstood and why (and also maybe which they feel are the most easily understood).

The reason for this thread is I think it might show some common misconceptions and myths and might help illuminate some people's views about them. I also thought it would be interesting to see people's views on them.
 

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I think the most obviously mistaken one is Ni. Idk if it is just wishful thinking, the online tests, or just bleaching it of any meaning afterwards. People read "daydreams and comes up with ideas" and suddenly they are INFJ.
 

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I think the most obviously mistaken one is Ni. Idk if it is just wishful thinking, the online tests, or just bleaching it of any meaning afterwards. People read "daydreams and comes up with ideas" and suddenly they are INFJ.
I'd have to agree.
All introverted intuition is, is the just taking external information, and grouping it together into one inner conclusion, framework or worldview. That's all it is. It doesn't make you psychic, or mystical. It just makes you particularly adept in recognizing patterns.

A good allegory to this is comparing introverted intuition to a sniper rifle scope. It may result in a failure to see anything to "the sides" of the scope, but the conclusion you are aiming for becomes crystal clear. Which is the opposite of extroverted intuition, in where it's more like a shotgun.

I'd say another misconception is Fi and Fe.
Fi usually means inner morals that are derived from past experiences. Fe usually focuses on external ethics.
 

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I have yet to hear an explanation of Si that I understand. Lots of times it's brushed off as just memory, but what does it do?
 

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Si is going off what you already know or what is already established to make decisions. Jung says it is about taking the subjective impressions of objects and going off of that as opposed to experiencing them like an Se would. Most of the time people hate being given Si as a typing. They will fight it by saying they aren't traditionalists, but, really, defending what you know probably isn't even tradition given the state of the world today. Maintaining whatever is already happening doesn't have to mean being old fashioned.
 

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Jung's introverted functions derive their content from primordial images which he believed were present in the collective unconscious.

Introverted = subjective = inner world = collective unconscious = genetic memory = passed down through our ancestry

Extraverted = objective = outer world = personally experienced = perceived through the senses, at some point in our lifetime = personal memory

Understanding this is essential to understanding cognitive function theory.
 

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Personally I think dom Fi is often viewed as either these ethereal beings that are all about poetry and flowers and feelings. Or they are looked at as selfish babies that are too preoccupied with themselves to worry about others' feelings. When really I see my friends with dom Fi as people who honestly just relate to the world through there own feelings, which can come off selfish because they say things like, "I think" or "I personally feel." That can often seem like they only care about there viewpoint, but it's quite the contrary! My friends with dom Fi are the sweetest people I know and just want to live through life being 100% themselves. Although I don't think this is the most misunderstood function out there.
 

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Si is going off what you already know or what is already established to make decisions. Jung says it is about taking the subjective impressions of objects and going off of that as opposed to experiencing them like an Se would.
The first myth comes from the misunderstanding of Jung's use of the term "subjective".
Introverted functions aren't directed from "what you already know" any more than extraverted functions are.

Jung explains this
"The introverted attitude is normally governed by the psychological structure, theoretically determined by heredity, but which to the subject is an ever present subjective factor. This must not be assumed, however, to be simply identical with the subject's ego, an assumption that is certainly implied in the above mentioned designations of Weininger; it is rather the psychological structure of the subject that precedes any development of the ego"
 

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I'd have to agree.
All introverted intuition is, is the just taking external information, and grouping it together into one inner conclusion, framework or worldview. That's all it is. It doesn't make you psychic, or mystical. It just makes you particularly adept in recognizing patterns.

A good allegory to this is comparing introverted intuition to a sniper rifle scope. It may result in a failure to see anything to "the sides" of the scope, but the conclusion you are aiming for becomes crystal clear. Which is the opposite of extroverted intuition, in where it's more like a shotgun.

I'd say another misconception is Fi and Fe.
Fi usually means inner morals that are derived from past experiences. Fe usually focuses on external ethics.
Not derived from past experiences, they are derived from the primordial images, triggered by current and past experiences.
Extraverted functions are derived from the external world, during current and past experiences.

"The contents of the collective unconscious are represented in consciousness in the form of pronounced tendencies, or definite ways of looking at things. They are generally regarded by the individual as being determined by the object -- incorrectly, at bottom -- since they have their source in the unconscious structure of the psyche, and are only released by the operation of the object. "
 

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Not derived from past experiences, they are derived from the primordial images, triggered by current and past experiences.
Extraverted functions are derived from the external world, during current and past experiences.

"The contents of the collective unconscious are represented in consciousness in the form of pronounced tendencies, or definite ways of looking at things. They are generally regarded by the individual as being determined by the object -- incorrectly, at bottom -- since they have their source in the unconscious structure of the psyche, and are only released by the operation of the object. "
Welp, guess I'm contributing to the stereotype lol
 

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I can't even answer that. Discussions of Ni use vocabulary and examples that simply mystify me. Or they contrast it with other functions, but I can't see the difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I can't even answer that. Discussions of Ni use vocabulary and examples that simply mystify me. Or they contrast it with other functions, but I can't see the difference.
I'm hoping someone will correct me with a more accurate explanation closer to Jung's original theory as that's the point of the thread, but I'll try and get the discussion going...

Intuition (both Ni and Ne) is focused on ‘what’s behind the curtain’ which, by definition, can't be directly experienced. So, in order to speculate on the things that can’t be directly known, both Ni and Ne become very good at advanced pattern recognition. You get clues on what’s behind the curtain by picking up on the data points you can see and then forming patterns to make speculative leaps.

Like Si, Ni does this in a ‘ruminatory’ fashion because it’s also introverted, or inwardly expressed. Which patterns are available in the ‘inner world’ of a human being? Since all the action is taking place in the brain, the patterns that become the most interesting are the ones that form in the mind. So with Ni, a combination of our beliefs, thoughts and feelings will form our subjective ‘take’ on how the world works.

Ni is focused on the patterns that form these "perspectives", and over time it starts to see the ‘pattern of the patterns’. Meaning, if my mind forms patterns in this way when given certain information and stimuli, then it’s a pretty safe bet others are, too. This is why users of Ni aren’t married to their own perspectives. They can take a meta-perspective and understand the ways in which we’re the same and different on a cerebral level.

I hope that at least gets a conversation started.
 

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I'm hoping someone will correct me with a more accurate explanation closer to Jung's original theory as that's the point of the thread, but I'll try and get the discussion going...

Intuition (both Ni and Ne) is focused on ‘what’s behind the curtain’ which, by definition, can't be directly experienced. So, in order to speculate on the things that can’t be directly known, both Ni and Ne become very good at advanced pattern recognition. You get clues on what’s behind the curtain by picking up on the data points you can see and then forming patterns to make speculative leaps.

Like Si, Ni does this in a ‘ruminatory’ fashion because it’s also introverted, or inwardly expressed. Which patterns are available in the ‘inner world’ of a human being? Since all the action is taking place in the brain, the patterns that become the most interesting are the ones that form in the mind. So with Ni, a combination of our beliefs, thoughts and feelings will form our subjective ‘take’ on how the world works.

Ni is focused on the patterns that form these "perspectives", and over time it starts to see the ‘pattern of the patterns’. Meaning, if my mind forms patterns in this way when given certain information and stimuli, then it’s a pretty safe bet others are, too. This is why users of Ni aren’t married to their own perspectives. They can take a meta-perspective and understand the ways in which we’re the same and different on a cerebral level.

I hope that at least gets a conversation started.

"Intuition appears either in a subjective or an objective form: the former is a perception of unconscious psychic facts whose origin is essentially subjective; the latter is a perception of facts which depend upon subliminal perceptions of the object and upon the thoughts and feelings occasioned thereby."

"Introverted intuition apprehends the images which arise from the a priori, i.e. the inherited foundations of the unconscious mind. These archetypes, whose innermost nature is inaccessible to experience, represent the precipitate of psychic functioning of the whole ancestral line, i.e. the heaped-up, or pooled, experiences of organic existence in general, a million times repeated, and condensed into types."
 

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Still too hard to follow. Let me throw a couple of things out there and see whether they're at all illustrative:

1. I was an academic editor. Lacking a hard science background, I started with social sciences and humanities. I soon found that the humanities drove me crazy: the thought processes, the writing style, everything.

2. I believe my daughter is INTJ. Since her child (now a teenager) was born, my daughter has been disappointed that I don't fit her notions of grandmotherliness. If I were her, I would be intrigued by the uniqueness of the situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I have yet to hear an explanation of Si that I understand. Lots of times it's brushed off as just memory, but what does it do?
I'm going to again ask for a more directly Jungian explanation from someone on this but as far as I understand it, Si wants reliable information the most, which is one reason why SJs seem so tied to personal experience and expert opinion to some people.

Both sensing function attitudes (Si and Se) use sense perceptions to gather information.

But Si doesn’t just take in information in the moment, like Se. It’s introverted, or inwardly directed. That means it captures the direct sensory experience and ruminates over it later. Which makes sense because what is more ‘reliable’ than a direct sensory experience that you get to spend time thinking about? A captured experience that can be reviewed later is a memory, the basis of this process.

That's why it gets mixed up with memory. Memory is a skill or talent (i.e. possessing a good memory). But Si is more linked to the actual noun, itself (a memory).

I believe @Kynx has given a better explanation of some of the subjectivity definition further up if you can think in Jungian language closer to the theory.
 
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