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@sprinkles

For me, PvP is the most important aspect of the game. For example, I just got to 43 in Skyrim, and the game content value drops off a cliff near the endgame. I'm bored, and waiting for more, except it isn't coming. I think endgame is the most important factor MMOs need to concentrate on, because it is what keeps you coming back.

And that for me, I gravitate towards PvP. While I didn't mind epic raids every so often, I find PvP much more gratifying.

Now I agree with you that in fact MMOs are not necessarily classically geared for eSport, there is no reason that devs cannot capitalize on the replay-ability much of the major eSport games possess. Take League of Legends. It possesses most of the elements an RPG has, except it allows you to progress much faster. What would normally take you 6-7-8 days playing time, costs you one hour.

I think MMOs can use a game like League of Legends, and really accentuate their PvP based on some of the genius of LoL. I personally think, the most obvious direction MMOs need to go, is persistent battlefields, much like what Planetside 2 is planning.
 

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@sprinkles

For me, PvP is the most important aspect of the game. For example, I just got to 43 in Skyrim, and the game content value drops off a cliff near the endgame. I'm bored, and waiting for more, except it isn't coming. I think endgame is the most important factor MMOs need to concentrate on, because it is what keeps you coming back.

And that for me, I gravitate towards PvP. While I didn't mind epic raids every so often, I find PvP much more gratifying.

Now I agree with you that in fact MMOs are not necessarily classically geared for eSport, there is no reason that devs cannot capitalize on the replay-ability much of the major eSport games possess. Take League of Legends. It possesses most of the elements an RPG has, except it allows you to progress much faster. What would normally take you 6-7-8 days playing time, costs you one hour.

I think MMOs can use a game like League of Legends, and really accentuate their PvP based on some of the genius of LoL. I personally think, the most obvious direction MMOs need to go, is persistent battlefields, much like what Planetside 2 is planning.
I have no problem with making a great PvP element or even focusing on it, because it is fun.

I just think as an esport, a game should be as streamlined and balanced as possible, which pretty much means having no special persistent PvE content. This is mainly because it detracts from serious PvP.

Why do I say this? Because doing a lot of anything which is not PvP does not help you get better at PvP skill wise. Generally if you try to handle players the same way as you handle enemies in a dungeon, you will get wiped (unless of course they are the same way because they do the same thing). Basically if it were possible to have a full time PvPer which never touched PvE and they were of optimal skill, they will probably wipe the floor with someone who split their time between PvE and PvP.

So anyway. There's nothing wrong with having a PvE element and a PvP element, and even having PvP competitions, but trying to make it esport could detract from the aspects of both. What often ends up happening when people try to make it a sport is that the PvE becomes merely a race to max level, and if you're going to do the content just to get past it and never see it again only for PvP, then it may as well be removed all together and just make it a plain fighting game where everyone has what would be max by default. There shall be no winning of Ferraris in this manner, IMO.
 

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i envy such a nice couple ^^
You and every other guy who doesn't have a significant other who enjoys that kind of video game.
My ex liked games, for example, but she could not and would not get into MMORPGs. She prefers puzzles and games like the sims. In fact, I think she hates MMOs now, as she told me once she blamed WoW for our break up.
 

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You and every other guy who doesn't have a significant other who enjoys that kind of video game.
My ex liked games, for example, but she could not and would not get into MMORPGs. She prefers puzzles and games like the sims. In fact, I think she hates MMOs now, as she told me once she blamed WoW for our break up.
sry to hear that you've breakup. but yeah grinding so hard also can make real life became suck TT
 

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sry to hear that you've breakup. but yeah grinding so hard also can make real life became suck TT
It actually wasn't the game that caused the break up, she just wanted something to blame other than herself.


I think if you just find someone who can accept your hobbies and not demand you stop doing them, is the best you can really hope for. You can't expect to find someone who shares everything with you.
 

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Guild Wars
Need for Speed World
Anyone going to play GW2?

another one waiting for D3 it seems!

@Stephen and I were playing D2 together a few months back. Now we've moved over to WCIII
Cool WCIII!! I was totally addicted to Boson's tower defense :crazy:
 

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ESTP

And while I don't really have time to play videogames any more, I did play a fair bit of Counter-strike and Quake 3. Then Diablo 2 came and all we knew was those crazy teleporting barbarians and laggomancers.
 

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What about it? They lost me at "But what about those who have always viewed the MMORPG scene as a party to which they weren't invited and have never felt welcome?"

Those kind of people are noobs.

"If you've long equated the huge, persistent world of a MMORPG with a jumble of unwritten rules, inscrutable social decorum, unfathomable hierarchies and the mystifying "Holy Trinity" of character classes..."
Hah, if someone does that, then they are a noob who thinks too much about stuff.

Participating in WvW combat also gets you loot in experience. If you kill another player, they'll drop loot just like AI-controlled mobs, and the gear will scale to your actual character level so you can use it back in the PvE game. Though all levels can participate, Ferguson notes there are still limitations, "The level-adjustment system won't let a level 1 character go head-to-head against a level 80 character with much chance of victory—a level 80 character is still going to have more bonuses on their gear and access to a full complement of utility and elite skills that players just don't have at lower levels. This is not to say that the high-level character will one-shot the level 1 player, but they will have a clear advantage."
Sounds fun, but I'd say it is still not a sport.

If a level 1 can't go against a level 80 with much chance of victory then that is certainly NOT balance from a sport perspective, especially in an environment where even one extra point of DPS can turn into an advantage. This can be eliminated easily and completely by simply not having a persistent unique character. Player ability and real life equipment are enough of a difference without throwing unique virtual stats into the mix, too.

They are missing the point that in competitive PvP, having unique persistent things is BAD. This problem already rears its ugly head in FPS games that allow you to have unique guns, and even TF2 to an extent.

It's very simple - don't put it in the game and you won't have to balance with everything else. Ever. A less complicated game often makes for a more competitive one, and you begin to see players who shine just by being really good at using the same stuff that everyone else has.

Edit: and more on the point of slight advantages, I can't even count the number of times that I went on to frag several people when I had 1 hp left. Something that I wouldn't be doing if the person that brought me to 1 hp could have done 1 more point of damage - 1 more point of damage would mean that all my extra frags would be effectively erased.
 

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Sandbox PvP that's when shit get's serious. Most of you don't even know the adrenaline rush of fighting an enemy and if you lose you lose everything on your character. Depending on what you're carrying you act like it's life or death. Stuff that could have taken hours to get at stake. It's a rush indeed.

Yes but for E-sport the simpler the better like @sprinkles said. Less variables less chance for imbalance.

The only other competitive environment that matches this is E-War (self made term), a game that facilitates digital wars, more or less a good Sandbox MMO. Mortal Online is mainly my reference point. However Sandboxes are the complete opposite their purpose isnt making things balanced but having so many options in front of you that your Alliance/Guild needs to research and it's not only a battle of skilled warriors but skilled minds designing the gear, making new tactics etc... just like real war.
 

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In all honesty, the eSport comment, was my interpretation of why the PvP in GW2 will outdo most competitors. Not to be a comparison of its actual PvP, when compared to well known eSport titles.

I should have probably noted, the most valuable piece of information within that link was the last video. Just to give you an idea of what is GW2's PvP.
 

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I somewhat agree with Sprinkles and DarkWarrior.
I don't believe MMOs or RPGs can make proper e-sports simply because they're not built for it. It doesn't matter what game it is, they'll always have balance problems that can never truly be sorted out simply because the games are built around making everything as different as possible.







Anyway, every time I remember diablo 3 is only a month away:
 

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long time no play
counter strike
half-life
red alert
starcraft
^^
 
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