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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
He's 4 years older than me. He's 23 now, I'm 19.

When we were kids, he would never let me hug him. He rarely played with me and if he did it was me being embarrassed or bullied in some way. In school he wouldn't let his friends see me. When I was in middle school and he was in high school, he either ignored me to the point of not even looking at me or hitting me and saying negative things about me.

Now he's moved out and he's a firefighter. He's a bit nicer, but he still treats me like I'm a little kid. He told my dad recently that he doesn't like me. I've asked him to go to concerts/movies and he rejects my offers and kinda makes fun of me for asking.

I'm really not that bad, I've always tried to be nice to him. I've given him tons of compliments and I talk good about him behind his back.

I think he's an ESTJ/ESFJ and maybe he just hates me for being the opposite of him... I don't know, can you all give me advice on how to cope with this or build a relationship with him.

By the way, I've had people who are in school for psychology tell me he has Narcissistic personality disorder or even possibly Histrionic. My grandfather has cancer right now and he has only visited him once just to appease my parents. He just doesn't care, and doesn't think he needs to visit, even though my grandfather loves to see all of us.
 

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Wow im sorry you've had this kind of relationship with your brother. Well let me start by saying im going through a very similiar thing with my sister right now so i can deffenitly relate.

You have to keep in mind some people don't like being hugged (im one of those people. Its not that he doesnt like you its just not something he likes. And maybe the reason he didn't wantpeople to see you was because he was protective of you. As far as the highschool thing i'll admit thats a bit harsh but again remember that many people guys especially are really immature at that age and say and do things they regret or didnt really mean. I myself can adhere to that, I think you should deffenitly let him know it bugged you when he did that.

Now that he is older he most likley does still view you as a kid because lets face it he's moved out and is on his way to being his own man. He may say he doesnt like you because he see's you as childish which isn't at all your fault. I do this sometimes with my sister when i get irritated at how immature she acts at times. So don't take that to heart. The concerts and movies may not intrest him so much right now mainly because im sure he's busy trying to build a carrer and get financially stable, at that age its really hard to venture out on your own and try to make it. So those things probably seem trivial to him, when he has so much to contend with.

Your very kind to still give him compliments and to praise him. But you should't expect for that to make him feel any different, im sure deep inside he does appreciate the kind words that you speak about him.

And as far as the grandfather thing 1.Im very sorry about that i wish you the best.. and 2.Unfortunatly like i said before at that age he is probably so inwrapped with whats going on in his life that he doesn't really care about anything else. Family is somethinga lot of kids my age don't value as much as we should its sad but its true. Alot of people i know didnt start valuing it more until later in life when they look back and regret some of the things they did and said.

And with that i want to say again just give him his space and hope that in time he will mature a bit more and see the mistakes he has made. Were all human and imperfect and flawed in many ways, try speaking to him about it if you already havn't. If he pushes you away then its best to just leave it alone for now. The ties of blood are forever so it's not like he wont be around so just be patiant and don't chase after him. Just do your own thing and let him do his, best of luck and i wish the best for both of you!
 

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Just be nice, don't let that hurt you and keep trying, he'll realize your feelings someday.
 
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Don't give up trying to connect with him. I know it's hard, and I'm sure the rejection hurts. But if you give up then there's no one there to keep the hope of a good relationship alive.

You are incredibly brave person for putting yourself out there in an attempt to connect. I'm sure on some level that means something to him, even if he lacks the ability/understanding to convey it.

I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather. Here's a slip of perspective that might explain your brothers' behavior, though:

When I was a teenager, my friend's father fell ill with a brain tumor. She visited him several times a week up until the surgery. He came out all right and she was thrilled. He was expected to live. But a week later, without explanation, her father's condition began to rapidly deteriorate. He had lost the will to live. He was nearly comatose for two weeks before he finally died. Only once did my friend visit her father in those two weeks, no matter how much her family begged. Not because she didn't love her father or want to see him get better-- but because she simply couldn't handle the emotional pain of watching him die. The night before he died she finally went to his bedside, laid in her father's arms, and cried.

She doesn't talk about those days and if you address them she'll pretend it's something she's over. Some emotional wounds are too deep for people to handle, so they bury them under indifference and dislike. Perhaps your brother is undergoing something similar.

Keep holding out hope.
 

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Depends on how the individual views the matter.
I don't think it's nice to give someone the advice to continue a certain situation in a relationship that drains him and makes him feel bad about himself. If his bigger brother actually loves him, I think that his brother could use some perspective on things at least, and for that reason I again think that it's bad advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Don't give up trying to connect with him. I know it's hard, and I'm sure the rejection hurts. But if you give up then there's no one there to keep the hope of a good relationship alive.

You are incredibly brave person for putting yourself out there in an attempt to connect. I'm sure on some level that means something to him, even if he lacks the ability/understanding to convey it.

I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather. Here's a slip of perspective that might explain your brothers' behavior, though:

When I was a teenager, my friend's father fell ill with a brain tumor. She visited him several times a week up until the surgery. He came out all right and she was thrilled. He was expected to live. But a week later, without explanation, her father's condition began to rapidly deteriorate. He had lost the will to live. He was nearly comatose for two weeks before he finally died. Only once did my friend visit her father in those two weeks, no matter how much her family begged. Not because she didn't love her father or want to see him get better-- but because she simply couldn't handle the emotional pain of watching him die. The night before he died she finally went to his bedside, laid in her father's arms, and cried.

She doesn't talk about those days and if you address them she'll pretend it's something she's over. Some emotional wounds are too deep for people to handle, so they bury them under indifference and dislike. Perhaps your brother is undergoing something similar.

Keep holding out hope.
I've felt that way sometimes too, but it's not the case for him. I try not to judge him too much because I don't know what goes on inside his head. But he's really immature about it. "I'm a firefighter, I see people die all the time with that condition. I don't need to see him, I know what's it like. He'll be fine it's just a waste of my time and his." That's what he said when I asked him about it.

Maybe when I'm 21, we can drink together and that'll bring us closer together. He wouldn't drink with me now cause he's extremely conscious of the law and believes it's always right. I don't know why I want to have a relationship with him so bad, I just can't give up on family.
 

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Some people don't "do" physical affection. I have to kind of force myself to do it with people besides my wife and kid.

I will say that you and your brother are just a little younger than when me and my brother finally put aside our various annoyances with each other and became good friends. I think a lot of it had to do with no longer living together at that point, and also because we saw that each of us grew into something the other could respect (jobs, lives, etc..).

We still have very different ways of thinking, and until recently, it'snot like we hung out a lot, because we only shared a couple of interests.

Your best bet may be to lay off showing interest for a while, then begin a slow picking and pecking, trying to figure out stuff he'd like to do. Sometimes, with people who are distant (like me), it can be pretty awkward when someone's trying to pull you into stuff.
 

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Some people don't "do" physical affection. I have to kind of force myself to do it with people besides my wife and kid.

I will say that you and your brother are just a little younger than when me and my brother finally put aside our various annoyances with each other and became good friends. I think a lot of it had to do with no longer living together at that point, and also because we saw that each of us grew into something the other could respect (jobs, lives, etc..).

We still have very different ways of thinking, and until recently, it'snot like we hung out a lot, because we only shared a couple of interests.

Your best bet may be to lay off showing interest for a while, then begin a slow picking and pecking, trying to figure out stuff he'd like to do. Sometimes, with people who are distant (like me), it can be pretty awkward when someone's trying to pull you into stuff.
I see what you mean. By the way I shouldn't have added in the hugging thing as a kid... I don't like physical affection either. I'm just saying that he's always kind of had this hatred from birth and I (and everyone else) has no idea why.

And I hear what you're saying, but I come from a very close family. We're Italian and just very, very close. For him to be like this, it means he has something against me, but he won't tell anyone why. And I'm not this annoying/clingy person, we're actually alike in a lot of ways...

I don't know. Like I said earlier, I can't just give up on family and he's been this way my whole life. I'm fucking tired of it and I wanna just get along.
 

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I see what you mean. By the way I shouldn't have added in the hugging thing as a kid... I don't like physical affection either. I'm just saying that he's always kind of had this hatred from birth and I (and everyone else) has no idea why. ...

I don't know. Like I said earlier, I can't just give up on family and he's been this way my whole life. I'm fucking tired of it and I wanna just get along.
Give it a couple years. You might be pleasantly surprised.

On a more tactical level, what finally bonded me and my brother was a kind of mutual dislike of our mom. A common experience that both of us could understand. Believe me, we really didn't like or respect each other before that. After we realized that each of us had a kind of common enemy, it became much easier.
 

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I can see why this could be a problem since you want to connect to him but I'm wondering why you even want to by now. Because he's your brother? He doesn't seem worth trying to win the close brotherly relationship for. You're not even sure exactly why he hates you. Maybe I don't understand because your age gap is much smaller than the age gap between my siblings and I (minimum 8 years older, most is 18 years older).
 

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I don't think it's nice to give someone the advice to continue a certain situation in a relationship that drains him and makes him feel bad about himself. If his bigger brother actually loves him, I think that his brother could use some perspective on things at least, and for that reason I again think that it's bad advice.
Just because his brother dislikes him, and he feels bad about it, shouldn't make him 'dislike' his elder brother if he really loves him. That will also create more chaos in the family.
 

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I can't relate with this although it makes me feel..hum, kind of sad really. Siblings sometimes will get on each others nerves, they take the other for granted. Now this brother is in his early twenties, he should start growing up. I wouldn't give up on him in a sense of being unkind to him, although i wouldn't be over emotional either. Maybe you should detach a bit until he comes around with a better attitude. He may be taking your kindness for weakness, taking advantage of you. Try and ease off the whole i'm your brother therefore you should love me, let him come to that conclusion by himself. He should become a man by the age of 30.

Btw i don't believe he hates you. He likely has a different way of expressing himself that you haven't tapped into yet. You may come across as too mushy for him, that likely makes he feel uncomfortable. He sounds like a typical immature 20+ kind of guy. I would ignore him, and i mean really ignore him. I don't mean in a rude way either. I would just detach myself from emotion and only give of myself mentally. One day he may wake up and realize he needs his brother, until then i wouldn't push it. If and when this happens, then i would lay it out on the line and let him know how is actions hurt you. I feel for you thou, because I myself think that family is so important. I couldn't face a day having to feel like someone i loved would reject me, yuk . Stay strong, he will come around in his own time, once he matures and realizes that family should come first.
 

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Just because his brother dislikes him, and he feels bad about it, shouldn't make him 'dislike' his elder brother if he really loves him. That will also create more chaos in the family.
It's not a healthy relationship. A perfect way to create more chaos in the family is for him to annoy his big brother even more and then feel even more rejected. His bigger brother needs some distance to the relation, and a good way to get that is to stop giving his bigger brother attention. If his bigger brother also has NPD, then it should be even more important to stay away. Narcissism isn't prevented by giving whomever more attention. Your advice will leave him emotionally hurt and to develop issues with trust.

Even if they are bound by blood it doesn't mean that the bigger brothers behavior is acceptable, and suggesting that someone in such a vulnerable position just should "deal with it" is mean and cruel.


@WinklePlum I don't want to judge your brother, but give him space and time, don't make contact with him on your initiative. It's the only way you can affect this negative spiral with him rejecting you, and hopefully he will realize what you are trying to give him. Do that and he may actually grow up.
 

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Well, we can speculate all day on why Older Brother doesn't seem to like Younger Brother, but we really don't know the answer to that.

Sometimes when people grow up, they do mellow out and get some perspective. So it's possible that older brother will change, especially if he gets married / raises kids.

WP, it sounds like you and your brother are kind of opposites, and since you also seem to the sort that desires a connection with family (including your brother) and are more emotional based, it sounds like he likes more detachment, more typically buries feelings (including anger), etc. Obviously he cares about people on some level, if he's a fire fighter, but it's plausible that who you are doesn't gel with who he is.

The thing with family that I have learned, after lots of hurt and disappointment, is that you cannot force the issue; and trying to force the issue will only make things worse. Is there any reason why you want to be so close to Older Brother besides that fact he is your older brother? is he someone you would go out of your way to build a relationship with, if he was not your Older Brother?

I think at the moment you need to accept that Older Brother doesn't feel the same way toward you. I think that you would be happier if you still did let him know you cared, but not in the sense of trying to force this relationship to develop more right now. Just maintain contact, do family events, birthdays, holidays, be kind; but otherwise I think you'd do a lot better pursuing your own life and trying to relate to people who actually gave a damn about you and wanted to be close to you. That is called "building your own life." When you have your Own Life, with people who care about you, you will be able to give Older Brother more freedom to respond authentically in your brotherly relationship, rather than OB probably feeling like you are trying to force something to happen.

Honestly, you can't make this happen -- not unless he wants it too. I know this is disappointing because you want to be closer to him, but that is just life. It took me some years to accept that certain family members I wanted to be closer to just didn't want that from me, and that I needed to focus on my "family of choice" and invest in those who really loved me and cared.

Maybe someday OB will come back to you and want something deeper, but it'll be his choice. It's the only way it is going to work.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks everyone

I think I just need to let it be. He has never tried and I shouldn't keep facing rejection. But it felt good to read other peoples stories/advice :)
 

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It's not a healthy relationship. A perfect way to create more chaos in the family is for him to annoy his big brother even more and then feel even more rejected. His bigger brother needs some distance to the relation, and a good way to get that is to stop giving his bigger brother attention. If his bigger brother also has NPD, then it should be even more important to stay away. Narcissism isn't prevented by giving whomever more attention. Your advice will leave him emotionally hurt and to develop issues with trust.

Even if they are bound by blood it doesn't mean that the bigger brothers behavior is acceptable, and suggesting that someone in such a vulnerable position just should "deal with it" is mean and cruel.
That was just me being subjective. :p
 
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