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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
*Please refrain from replying to this particular thread if you're not an INTJ. Came here for good analytical breakdown and strategy from INTJ only. Won't respond otherwise. TY for ur cooperation*

I am desperate for good advice, especially from you smart INTJ's. So long story short, my INTJ brother have been dating this super repugnant INTP girl who is super nerdy and likes to argue everything at the logical level and try to prove how she is logically superior and smarter than everyone else. She even likes to argue and grill people on things she knows absolutely nothing about and jumps into discussions that don't concern her. Sometimes, I would just be having a funny banter with my brother, and she would jump in and correct whatever the fuck she deems erroneous or just randomly interjects with snark remarks, which makes everything super awkward. I have nothing against INTP's and nerds in general, as some are nice, some are not so nice just like every other types. Basically, she is the female Larry David, except she is not fucking funny whatsoever. *facepalm*

They have been dating for 5 years. They met at their first job out of college (gee what are the freaking odds of finding that special someone at the first job). I am pretty sure my brother is still holding on to her due to his scarcity mentality. And my brother is planning to marry her prolly next year, but everyone in my family pretty much hates her guts. My ENFJ father, who is a people's person, has very low opinion about her, and keeps asking me why my brother is still with this girl lol. My ISFJ mother, thinks she is un-lady-like (shocker) to say the least. I am usually indifferent about people. But this one really gets on my nerves (and I don't easily say this about people), or I don't know if I'll ever hang out with my brother again. Well at least not when he brings that ***** along. She is such a joke to the rest of the family and will be a very awkward addition at that. She needs to go! ugggghhhh!

The key issue is that my brother is also into "hot" woman (he loves checking out hot woman and sometimes wished he had one), but has been dating INTP girls all his life. My brother works in a bank and has good income, and I have a strong feeling that he is going to regret marrying her as he gets better with women and people in general. He even had serious thoughts about dumping her at one point. I just know he can do better much than that, even though his character is kinda on the nerdy and wussy side. And I am very determined to help him out either covertly or overtly.

So my question is, what's the best way to encourage my INTJ brother to look at the whole goddamn forest (he works in the financial district FFS, and there are lots of fine women to choose from!) instead of focusing on one freakin tree?! What other types are INTJ's likely to date? Any creative and/or constructive, hell, even destructive solutions/strategies will be greatly appreciated. I only aim for results. Thank you very much.
 

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ISFJ mum, ENFJ dad, and ISTP brother = a whole hell of a lot of Fe users.
Now I'm guessing you guys have been dropping hints all this time that you don't like the INTP.
And I'm guessing that 5 years worth of hints has lead to quite an irritated INTJ on the topic.

As for how to convince, which I'm not sure is possible:
INTJs communicate on a more direct level than TPs and especially FJs. INTJs are more concerned with a more direct expression of emotion, basically putting your cards on the table, but you need to keep in mind that the trump card is hard to determine sometimes.

Unless your parents are willing to step in and intentionally cause conflict, they might well just coast along with fake smiles whenever they see the girl. I realise that and want to change things as you've demonstrated by posting this, and it's likely you've already brought up the topic with your brother, to absolutely no success.


See, in order to convince him, you'd need to be sure you're right, and this means ethically.
If you're not doing this for his good -- if he feels you're being selfish -- then you're pitting the family against his girlfriend and forcing him to choose. And I'd doubt you'd like the result, and I'd wager you've already seen how that method plays out.

So before trying to change his opinion, make sure you're not confusing your own and the family's dislike with this girl with her being a bad match for your brother? If he so much as feels you're being bias against her, then he's not going to be willing to listen.

Now he's been with this girl for 5 years, and intends to marry her.
Honestly, it is going to be hard to convince him, as 5 years is a lot of time to build an understanding of each other.

What's the chance of finding someone worth marrying on your first job out of college? About the same as any other job.
What's the chance that a relationship is likely to work if you've been dating for 5 years? About as good as you can get.

Personally, what I'd do is suggest they move in together. Maybe their subtle differences become more grating when they can't readily escape it, and it would be important if they were to get married since they would be living together.
If that doesn't work out for them, then you've won; and if it does work out between them, then you'll have to get over the fact one way or another.

Of course if they're already living together, then you're pretty much being selfish and if you wanted to meddle, then you should've done something five years ago and you should really stop whining because people live their own lives and you can't tell them what to do no matter how covert/overt you're willing to be to get your own way.
 

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ISFJ mum, ENFJ dad, and ISTP brother = a whole hell of a lot of Fe users.
Now I'm guessing you guys have been dropping hints all this time that you don't like the INTP.
And I'm guessing that 5 years worth of hints has lead to quite an irritated INTJ on the topic.

As for how to convince, which I'm not sure is possible:
INTJs communicate on a more direct level than TPs and especially FJs. INTJs are more concerned with a more direct expression of emotion, basically putting your cards on the table, but you need to keep in mind that the trump card is hard to determine sometimes.

Unless your parents are willing to step in and intentionally cause conflict, they might well just coast along with fake smiles whenever they see the girl. I realise that and want to change things as you've demonstrated by posting this, and it's likely you've already brought up the topic with your brother, to absolutely no success.


See, in order to convince him, you'd need to be sure you're right, and this means ethically.
If you're not doing this for his good -- if he feels you're being selfish -- then you're pitting the family against his girlfriend and forcing him to choose. And I'd doubt you'd like the result, and I'd wager you've already seen how that method plays out.

So before trying to change his opinion, make sure you're not confusing your own and the family's dislike with this girl with her being a bad match for your brother? If he so much as feels you're being bias against her, then he's not going to be willing to listen.

Now he's been with this girl for 5 years, and intends to marry her.
Honestly, it is going to be hard to convince him, as 5 years is a lot of time to build an understanding of each other.

What's the chance of finding someone worth marrying on your first job out of college? About the same as any other job.
What's the chance that a relationship is likely to work if you've been dating for 5 years? About as good as you can get.

Personally, what I'd do is suggest they move in together. Maybe their subtle differences become more grating when they can't readily escape it, and it would be important if they were to get married since they would be living together.
If that doesn't work out for them, then you've won; and if it does work out between them, then you'll have to get over the fact one way or another.

Of course if they're already living together, then you're pretty much being selfish and if you wanted to meddle, then you should've done something five years ago and you should really stop whining because people live their own lives and you can't tell them what to do no matter how covert/overt you're willing to be to get your own way.
^ I would make a reply, but this is just going to be superior. :)
 

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You could also just mind your own fucking business.. I really didn't think people did this sort of thing.. Actually conspire to break up other people's relationships. OK if someone is up to something sinister I can see it.. But because YOU simply don't like the person's partner?
Well then aren't you lucky you aren't dating them. But why fuck with someone else.??
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
ISFJ mum, ENFJ dad, and ISTP brother = a whole hell of a lot of Fe users.
Now I'm guessing you guys have been dropping hints all this time that you don't like the INTP.
And I'm guessing that 5 years worth of hints has lead to quite an irritated INTJ on the topic.

As for how to convince, which I'm not sure is possible:
INTJs communicate on a more direct level than TPs and especially FJs. INTJs are more concerned with a more direct expression of emotion, basically putting your cards on the table, but you need to keep in mind that the trump card is hard to determine sometimes.

Unless your parents are willing to step in and intentionally cause conflict, they might well just coast along with fake smiles whenever they see the girl. I realise that and want to change things as you've demonstrated by posting this, and it's likely you've already brought up the topic with your brother, to absolutely no success.


See, in order to convince him, you'd need to be sure you're right, and this means ethically.
If you're not doing this for his good -- if he feels you're being selfish -- then you're pitting the family against his girlfriend and forcing him to choose. And I'd doubt you'd like the result, and I'd wager you've already seen how that method plays out.

So before trying to change his opinion, make sure you're not confusing your own and the family's dislike with this girl with her being a bad match for your brother? If he so much as feels you're being bias against her, then he's not going to be willing to listen.

Now he's been with this girl for 5 years, and intends to marry her.
Honestly, it is going to be hard to convince him, as 5 years is a lot of time to build an understanding of each other.

What's the chance of finding someone worth marrying on your first job out of college? About the same as any other job.
What's the chance that a relationship is likely to work if you've been dating for 5 years? About as good as you can get.

Personally, what I'd do is suggest they move in together. Maybe their subtle differences become more grating when they can't readily escape it, and it would be important if they were to get married since they would be living together.
If that doesn't work out for them, then you've won; and if it does work out between them, then you'll have to get over the fact one way or another.

Of course if they're already living together, then you're pretty much being selfish and if you wanted to meddle, then you should've done something five years ago and you should really stop whining because people live their own lives and you can't tell them what to do no matter how covert/overt you're willing to be to get your own way.
Really appreciate your great advice. I'll definetly reread it later. I definetly would've done alot more about it 5 years ago had we lived in the same country. I only wait till now to take action b/c i'll be moving to his town for work next week, and feel like i need to do something instead of beating around the bush. I just want him to see the bigger picture and experience other types of woman for his own sake is all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You could also just mind your own fucking business.. I really didn't think people did this sort of thing.. Actually conspire to break up other people's relationships. OK if someone is up to something sinister I can see it.. But because YOU simply don't like the person's partner?
Well then aren't you lucky you aren't dating them. But why fuck with someone else.??
When ppl fuck with me I fuck with them. Now you know how ISTPs work. If i never had to see his fking gf againI would op to do nothing about it. But she crossed me far too many times. Anyways thanks for nothing.
 

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You could also just mind your own fucking business.. I really didn't think people did this sort of thing.. Actually conspire to break up other people's relationships. OK if someone is up to something sinister I can see it.. But because YOU simply don't like the person's partner?
Well then aren't you lucky you aren't dating them. But why fuck with someone else.??
*Raises hand*

I know as a fact I've been infatuated wiith someone despite the relationship between us was awful.
If OP tells it true, then it might save him brother a world of problems.

I've already said to make sure he was doing it for the right reasons, and that he should be aware that it could be a selfish thing he's requesting, so it's important he's truly concerned for his brother.

To say he's being a jerk would be speculative.

[edit]--------------------------------------------------------

I didn't say he was being a jerk did I?
I suggested he mind his own business and expressed my own surprise that people would conspire to break other people up for their own selfish reasons.
His response to me??.. I might speculate that was the post of a Jerk . Maybe.
I missed the part where explicitly calling someone a 'jerk' is notably different from resorting to throwing "fucks" around at how horrible you perceive their behaviour to be.

Oh and 5 years is not infatuation.. Not in anecdotal terms and not in scientific terms.
If you think 5 years of dating certifies a solid relationship, then you've got another thing coming.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
*Raises hand*

I know as a fact I've been infatuated wiith someone despite the relationship between us was awful.
If OP tells it true, then it might save him brother a world of problems.

I've already said to make sure he was doing it for the right reasons, and that he should be aware that it could be a selfish thing he's requesting, so it's important he's truly concerned for his brother.

To say he's being a jerk would be speculative.
Indeed. And Forgot to also mention that we have witnessed first hand that getting divorce is a super messy and expensive business. So you r wise to point out that a part of me is trying to prevent my brother to repeat the same mistake judging from today's divorce rate.
 

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*Raises hand*

I know as a fact I've been infatuated wiith someone despite the relationship between us was awful.
If OP tells it true, then it might save him brother a world of problems.

I've already said to make sure he was doing it for the right reasons, and that he should be aware that it could be a selfish thing he's requesting, so it's important he's truly concerned for his brother.

To say he's being a jerk would be speculative.
I didn't say he was being a jerk did I?
I suggested he mind his own business and expressed my own surprise that people would conspire to break other people up for their own selfish reasons.
His response to me??.. I might speculate that was the post of a Jerk . Maybe.

Oh and 5 years is not infatuation.. Not in anecdotal terms and not in scientific terms.
 

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You could also just mind your own fucking business.. I really didn't think people did this sort of thing.. Actually conspire to break up other people's relationships. OK if someone is up to something sinister I can see it.. But because YOU simply don't like the person's partner?
Well then aren't you lucky you aren't dating them. But why fuck with someone else.??
I dont usually agree with you, but I agree with you on this.

I think the OP has no right to intervene with this. Sigh. How sad.

@FacePalm I know how to do it, but i'm not giving you advice on it, because its unethical.

I see your issue is largely jealousy. 1. Of being 'outwitted' by the girl, and 2. Of her having your brothers attention and "interjecting" in your "bro-mance" moments.

I'm sorry but your altruistic veneer is transparent. You're interested only in YOUR own interests. And seriously, dude, most men are attracted to beautiful women, this means absolutely nothing when it comes to analysing the relationship.

Support your brother genuinely and be there for him if it goes bad, but anything you do about it based on selfish motives is going to backfire big time, imo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I dont usually agree with you, but I agree with you on this.

I think the OP has no right to intervene with this. Sigh. How sad.

@FacePalm I know how to do it, but i'm not giving you advice on it, because its unethical.

I see your issue is largely jealousy. 1. Of being 'outwitted' by the girl, and 2. Of her having your brothers attention and "interjecting" in your "bro-mance" moments.

I'm sorry but your altruistic veneer is transparent. You're interested only in YOUR own interests. And seriously, dude, most men are attracted to beautiful women, this means absolutely nothing when it comes to analysing the relationship.

Support your brother genuinely and be there for him if it goes bad, but anything you do about it based on selfish motives is going to backfire big time, imo.
Don't agree and can't really relate to anything u said here...outwitted? Jealousy? r u fking kidding me ...came here to side with ur fellow infj and preface ur non-sense with "i don't usually agree with you"....

Waste of time
 

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@FacePalm I always get a rather nice laugh out of people like you. You asked for advice, and then when people try to give it you just dismiss it outright and tell them that they're stupid. You seem like an extremely immature person, and telling people off isn't exactly going to make them want to help, is it?

Maybe you should just grow a pair of balls and tell your brother outright that you don't like his girlfriend, but don't expect him to care. INTJs are stubborn, and give zero fucks about what society/people expect of them(not as much as INTPs, but still). If he likes the girl enough, then he'll stay with her. If it doesn't work out, then he won't. Why should it matter to you? You're not marrying her.

Honestly, if I were you, I'd be more concerned about working on my people skills, and learning to take constructive criticism.
 

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Pfeh an intp telling me to develop ppl skill....oh yeah now im def gonna take u seriously....waste of time....read my post....requesting intj advice only....
So if an INTJ told you to leave your brother alone you'd listen? Somehow I doubt it.
 

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@FacePalm

I can see your concern, and I don't agree with Arclight (shocker) per se, but I wouldn't meddle in other people's relationships. Talk to your brother and tell him what you think. She sounds really insecure. I think it is somewhat of a habit amongst insecure NTP's. They like to showcase their riveting intellect in an abrasive manner that borderline puts people off. I can see your brothers attraction to INTP's because they are attractive, at least to me. I would just keep your distance but don't be afraid to put her in her place when the time calls for it.

I was friends with an INTP, although I admired him and loved his sharp witticism, the one complaint I had about him was his need to one up me for no particular reason. He liked to constantly exhibit how smart and well read he was, going on about absolutely nothing in arguments just to prove his in depth knowledge of off handed subjects. He also seemed to enjoy making people out to be stupid. That's one thing I did not like. Other than that he was cool.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
@FacePalm

I can see your concern, and I don't agree with Arclight (shocker) per se, but I wouldn't meddle in other people's relationships. Talk to your brother and tell him what you think. She sounds really insecure. I think it is somewhat of a habit amongst insecure NTP's. They like to showcase their riveting intellect in an abrasive manner that borderline puts people off. I can see your brothers attraction to INTP's because they are attractive, at least to me. I would just keep your distance but don't be afraid to put her in her place when the time calls for it.
Another Great response. This is exactly what i came here for. I do put her in her place evertime she does that. Got to a point where id just ignore her outright or patronize her since i can no longer take her seriously. Thanks for sharing ur insights. Seems like the general consensus among intjs so far favors the direct approach, which is great bc i never like to play petty mind games with immature ppl to begin with.
 

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I'm not even going to bother reading any more replies, the first page was plentiful.


OP, I was in a very similar spot with my oldest brother. As far as your brother goes, he's going to do whatever he sees fit for himself. If you truly believe your brother is selling himself short and deserves much more, let it be known. But I'd advise against any conspiring for the sake of getting rid of a disagreeable person or constantly bringing this issue up. In such a case, you'd be forming the schism in the relationship with your brother and it's just not worth it. Let him make the decision. If he listens to you, great. If he doesn't, oh well. Being related doesn't mean you have to be close friends. A perk, in cases like these.

Sometimes, people see things in others we can't see for ourselves. This girl may be what your brother truly wants. And even if she isn't, it's not up to you to decide that. All you can do is respect her as the person your brother loves. But stand your ground when you feel insulted by someone, even if this person is a brother/lover/friend. Just because someone is (about to become) a part of your family doesn't mean you must let them trample over you with pseudo-intellectual pretense. Hold respect for yourself, as you would for others.
 

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I think OP is getting too much flak here. Calm down people, by pushing OP, you just make him push back - that's now how understandings are passed on.


In no particular order:

1. it doesn't matter if your family doesn't like her. it is if he is happy or not (later on, I have opposing thoughts on this too).
who cares if she is un-lady-like - maybe your bro wants a real person, not a stereotype
you don't even say why your dad doesn't like her. we are INTJ's in here, we need logical reason, not that someone else doesn't like her.
my point is this - INTJ's don't gel well with a lot of people. maybe this one he does and you just don't see what he see's

of course, the (important) other side is
- high chance its his first chick and emotion is clouding his judgement, which means by about now-ish that should be wearing off and their mismatch should be coming through causing problems between them
- when everyone else doesn't like her, it can isolate him from people avoiding her


2. everyone checks out hot girls if they aren't gay. i don't get this point at all.

3. ohh right, cuz he is marrying his first "love"
yea ... I agree this sux since when you fall hard (as you do the first time), the only way you end up with a good "match" is purely by stupid luck, since you don't exactly "choose" to love someone, its biological (for procreation, etc). I dunno what solution there can be there. He has to fall out of love and then the problems manifest themselves in arguing, then the breakup (if they aren't a good match).

Thought tbh ... the worse thing that can happen is he gets married, then after couple of years divorce. He loses money (assuming it is like the majority of couples where the guy earns more and then gets fkd by the idiotic concept of marriage that he saw in movies all his life)

Oh wait ... there is a much worse case that OFTEN occurs ... he has a kid .. the 'love' hormones keep going for 2 more years... then have another kid ... 2 more years of hormones ... then falls out of love ... then he is old and fat ... and re-becoming an eligible man (while supporting 2 shitty kids) at the age of late 30's is near impossible and his life is over (I'm not being sarcastic here, this is VERY standard and is one of the many things in nature that sickens me).


I honestly don't see how this can be helped. It is evolution and built in so deeply into human biology which carries into the psyche.


Personally, what I'd do is suggest they move in together. Maybe their subtle differences become more grating when they can't readily escape it, and it would be important if they were to get married since they would be living together.
If that doesn't work out for them, then you've won; and if it does work out between them, then you'll have to get over the fact one way or another.

Of course if they're already living together, then you're pretty much being selfish and if you wanted to meddle, then you should've done something five years ago and you should really stop whining because people live their own lives and you can't tell them what to do no matter how covert/overt you're willing to be to get your own way.
Oh yea this for sure (even bolded it cuz its so massively important).
If they aren't living together, everyone should absolutely do that for quite a while before marriage (assuming someone is dumb enough to actually get married)
 

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The OP obviously cares about his brother. Just in a controlling overbearing kind of way. He wants what is best for his brother and he does not think his brothers current girlfriend is well suited for him. It seems like especially among S types, once you marry or become romantically involved with one person in their family, you are not in a relationship with the entire family. I can see things from the OP's perspective as much as I don't exactly agree with how he is going about things. It is accurate to say that his brother can "do better," but that is ultimately a decision your brother has to make. You trying to sabotage his relationship is likely to backfire on you. Your brother could obviously interpret your intentions as malicious and may even grow to have contempt against you OP. Just becareful. Meddling and gettin involved in other people's personal relationships seldom ends well for all parties involved, specifically on the willing antagonists part.


Better yet, OP is there any way that you may be attracted to your brothers girlfriend You seem to seriously dislike her. Apart from her emotionally retardation she doesn't seem harmful. I am really curious though. Are you harboring some type of attraction to her? If not, cool. Another question, are you jealous of her? Are you close with your brother? INTP's can be unknowingly attractive. Also INTJ'S find it difficult to get out of relationships sometimes. I highly doubt he will marry her. Especially if he was already having doubts.
 
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