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I am an INFJ, my oldest daughter is an INTP. For the most part we have always gotten along well and are very similar. As she's gotten older (17 years old now), we are having more difficulties... I see SOOOO much potential in her, she could succeed and do whatever she wants, however she seems perfectly content to be mediocre. Yet she gets upset when others around her are doing what she wanted to do & she's not. I want to yell at her, push her, just anything to open her eyes, but that always backfires so I keep my mouth shut. I don't know how to get through to her.
Also, just certain things like her room looking like a tornado just went through it, or leaving glasses or food in the living room, or milk on the counter...she says she doesn't notice it and if she does, it doesn't bother her. Drives me crazy.
She also has this terrible habit of wanting something and if someone disagrees with her or if she actually gets her way, all the sudden she doesn't want it anymore. Then she pouts because she wanted it, but now she's too prideful to take it. She likes to misinterpret what other say as well. I don't know how many times we'll have a conversation like what's for dinner and I'll say "I don't want that" and then she says "well never mind we just won't eat". I seriously don't have the energy to deal with her at times. She always has a plan of her own but never wants to share it with me, then gets mad because she we aren't doing what she wants.
Worst of all, is this attitude from her. I don't think she means to come off as abrasive as she does but it feels like she is attacking me. I literally feel like she is projecting negative energy bombs at me. It's to the point where we can't even have a civil conversation. I try to talk to her about it, asking her to be more aware of how she says things. She doesn't seem to care. It's gotten to the point that she is living with her dad for awhile because I constantly feel under attack and we needed a break.
I'm not sure what I'm even asking for...maybe just to know if other INTPs do this and what can I do to get our relationship back on track? I feel like I can be very honest with my youngest daughter about our problems but not with her. I'm afraid I'm going to send her over the edge with a wrong comment. Is that fear irrational with INTPs or am I justified? Thanks for any input y'all can offer.
 

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@Experiment 626 I'm a 20 year old INTP woman and I see so much of myself in her. I'm not sure I am qualified to offer advice, but I will try my best.

I see SOOOO much potential in her, she could succeed and do whatever she wants, however she seems perfectly content to be mediocre. Yet she gets upset when others around her are doing what she wanted to do & she's not. I want to yell at her, push her, just anything to open her eyes, but that always backfires so I keep my mouth shut. I don't know how to get through to her.
Does she have a hard time with academics? Failing classes? Hardly attending school? I was a terrible student. It was disheartening when everyone around me seemed to grasp school and homework while I could hardly concentrate. The work took so much energy out of me.. I gave up. Everyone around me already knew what they wanted to be, but all I saw was possibility and it felt wrong to settle for something I wasn't certain or absolutely passionate about.

I think INTPs at a young age learn that they wont get much done if it isn't something they fully embrace. I got moody when people asked me what I wanted to be because I wasn't ready to face it. I wasn't ready to tell someone else "I don't know what I want and I'm too scared/can't settle for good enough."

It would be best to avoid "What do you want to do?" Altogether. Maybe, "What do you like to do?" "What could you do if practicality were out of the picture?"

Also, just certain things like her room looking like a tornado just went through it, or leaving glasses or food in the living room, or milk on the counter...she says she doesn't notice it and if she does, it doesn't bother her. Drives me crazy.
I do this, but I think it's a part of my depression. Another part of me is just so absent minded I honestly don't see it. I'm too busy thinking about troubling thoughts or interesting theories that the real world just... vanishes.

I was unintentionally treating my mom like a doormat. Luckily, she learned to talk to me in a straight-forward and calm manner about why and how my laziness affected her. No guilt trip. Just "Hey I need this done now because I want to cook dinner and it makes it easier for me. I'll give you five minutes to finish up." Don't be afraid to assert your authority. If you warn her, she knows she has no right to stay mad at you. (Just what worked on me. Everyone's different.) She'll huff and puff, but if she's an INTP like you say.. she'll realize you're right. Maybe not admit it. :wink:

I don't necessarily know if it worked because I matured or because she learned to communicate with me.

She also has this terrible habit of wanting something and if someone disagrees with her or if she actually gets her way, all the sudden she doesn't want it anymore.
When I fight really hard to get my way, I usually feel terrible for manipulating people into doing what I wanted. I still want the object, but I feel like I was being childish and don't deserve it. When you disagree with her or criticize her, know that she listens. She defends herself and says she doesn't care because she doesn't know how to cope. She'll dwell on your words a long time after you say them.

She might not know how to define herself, and what you say about her might be what gives her identity.

At the same time, don't think this means never critique her. Give her advice, but never be patronizing about it. She needs you to help her grow.

I'm not sure what I'm even asking for...maybe just to know if other INTPs do this and what can I do to get our relationship back on track? I feel like I can be very honest with my youngest daughter about our problems but not with her. I'm afraid I'm going to send her over the edge with a wrong comment. Is that fear irrational with INTPs or am I justified? Thanks for any input y'all can offer.
I was a volatile INTP. I still can be. But I have learned to swallow my pride and talk when I am not feeling emotionally well, although I still don't talk with my parents. My apology was eventually doing what they tell me and being a little better about helping them next time. I was never consistent, and sometimes I reverted back.

I have bad anxiety and depression and I'm seeing some red flags. It might be worth checking in to a therapist just to get her to talk about her feelings.

I'm sorry this is long and so self-centric. I just thought my POV might help you understand what your daughter might be feeling.
 

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Wow she sounds a lot like me in some ways, and I also have an INFJ mother so I can relate to a lot of this. My advice to you is not to worry so much about your INTP sharing her problems with you, your other daughter might but us INTP's put a very tight lid on our emotions unless we really feel ready to share our feelings but even then it almost feels wrong for us to share our emotions. Since we are so distant with our emotions we also have trouble dealing with other people and their emotions so when other people have a problem with us it is hard for us to tell and we are not really sure what to do. Also what I have noticed with my mom and me, I tend to get kind of irritated when I need to constantly depend on her for stuff since I like to be very independant and when I'm angry at my mom I tend to distance myself with her until I eventually stop but if my mom tries to talk out the problem and confront me in that time I often pretend not to listen and become even angrier and distance myself even more as I contemplate what my mom said. As for your daughters room she will eventually feel the need for it to be clean and start cleaning it, my mom has the same problem with my room and wanting it to be clean and often forces my siblings and I to clean it when she finds it unbearable (I share a room) but I usually eventually clean it when it becomes to disastrous. I can also be very prideful at times like if I really want something to eat but someone disagrees and I finally get my way I feel like Iv'e lost the fight and eating the food would show Iv'e lost so I no longer want the food I also feel angry at myself for arguing over something so stupid. As for your daughter misinterpreting what other people say she might just be trying to argue/debate, I love debating with my family on many different topics it gives me energy. Well in conclusion I'm no expert in relationships with people but my suggestion for you and your daughter is to not confront her just wait for her to open up to you and listen to her, also allow her to be independent and allow her to go at her own pace, if she withdraws allow her time to recover and I don't think you should confront her in that time, oh lastly try not to compare her to your other children,she is her own person don't expect her to react the same way as your other kids, my mom used to say I was so quiet and that I should get out more because she was comparing me to my other siblings who are all extroverts and in the end that only led to conflict, so remember not to do that and respect your daughters own pace with things. I'm not sure if my advice will be of much help since I'm only basing this of my very little experience with INFJ and INTP but I hope it helps.
 

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That sounds like me in a lot of ways.

I see SOOOO much potential in her, she could succeed and do whatever she wants, however she seems perfectly content to be mediocre.
If your daughter is an INTP the same way I am, it's probably because it's not interesting to her. The need to succeed is very relative. I was always mediocer in most things I did. I just figured I didn't care, even my kindergarten teacher said I was "lacking in motivation". My parents eventually gave up on trying to change that fact. Everyone told me I was smart and had so much potential... while I knew that was true- I just didn't care. To me succeeding was doing what I wanted. I wanted to pass my classes, but I didn't want to try. For me there was no point to studying if I could settle for a B on the test, why would I do homework if I knew my test scores would keep me afloat enough to pass? I could be this awesome go-getter, or I could screw what other people wanted and do what I want. I could meet my goals while maximizing enjoyment.
That attitude was not popular with my parents, however they gave up which was good because there was nothing they could do to change it. I had no incentive and avoiding arguments and punishments aren't incentives.
Maybe your daughter, if she goes to college will undergo a similar transformation I did. Not wasting my parents money was a big incentive to me that and college actually provides a challenge. They are hands-off and the work was both interesting and difficult and when it wasn't interesting I didn't want to waste money that isn't mine to waste.
My 1.7 GPA average has shot up to a 3.4 and your daughter might do the same thing.

Also, just certain things like her room looking like a tornado just went through it, or leaving glasses or food in the living room, or milk on the counter...she says she doesn't notice it and if she does, it doesn't bother her.
Unless she has literally nothing else to do besides clean, her room will remain a mess. INTP's aren't known to be tidy people. Leaving spoilable things out is nasty and that should change, but harmless items like clothes or anything else is normal. Kind of a "neutral" element, it could be clean or it could be messy and it's not bothersome. Unless there is something to acheive by cleaning, it wont happen.

She also has this terrible habit of wanting something and if someone disagrees with her or if she actually gets her way, all the sudden she doesn't want it anymore. Then she pouts because she wanted it, but now she's too prideful to take it.
I don't think it's pride at work, it sounds like she just enjoys the "chase." What was fun became work which is a huge let down. I'm pretty sure that's an INTP thing also. From what I've read INTP's leave a lot of projects unfished as they move onto the next one.

I don't know how many times we'll have a conversation like what's for dinner and I'll say "I don't want that" and then she says "well never mind we just won't eat".
That's just attitude. A lot of moms do that to their kids when the kids aren't being appreciative. I don't know if you ever did that to her, but that's deffinitely attitude. Not really an INTP specific thing.

Worst of all, is this attitude from her. I don't think she means to come off as abrasive as she does but it feels like she is attacking me. I literally feel like she is projecting negative energy bombs at me. It's to the point where we can't even have a civil conversation. I try to talk to her about it, asking her to be more aware of how she says things. She doesn't seem to care.
Pretty sure that's a quote from my own mom, lol.
But that is very much INTP. We're analytical, abrasive, and can be negative (espetially of they're hormonal or depressed). Not exactly the empathetic social types. We aren't very outwardly emotional, we're blunt, and outspoken. She may not be trying to come off as agressive/defensive at all, and to be honest it's nearly impossible to change how abrasive we are without training. I've spent years trying to make people think I'm not angry. Researching how to do it and understanding how others take things. Intellectually I understand it but I miss the exocution by miles. Either it seems forced which is insulting, or it's abrasive which makes other people defensive. I think you should try not to personalize it too much and try to let it go. It sounds like she's asking for space and there isn't much you can do to change the fundamentals of it

I'm afraid I'm going to send her over the edge with a wrong comment. Is that fear irrational with INTPs or am I justified? Thanks for any input y'all can offer.
No, INTP's aren't very fragile- little exposive sometimes, sure. With a wrong comment you could really throw her over the edge as in she lashes out (it sounds like she has a tendancy from what you say). But you are a Feeler and having spent a lot of time with my best friend who is an ENFP I can guess at how most things from across to Feelers. You guys process external events from an emotional level, Thinkers are strictly logical. (Speaking in moderate to extreme terms). So while you both are frusterated and upset, probably dissapointed and a little self-consious your daughter doesn't go through those feelings first while you probably do. INTP's are notorious for not understanding emotions, they feel them but they don't really know what to do with them, which makes them prone to outbursts after trying to ignore them entirely. You two will always have an emotional disconnect. INFJ aren't the most emotional personality but INTP's are one of the least, if not the absolutel least emotional personality type out there.
My best advice regarding that is to just not project your understanding of emotions onto her, because you both might be similar in many ways but there will always be a gap. Kind of "agree to disagree" here.


Juggernaut is spot on.
Luckily, she learned to talk to me in a straight-forward and calm manner about why and how my laziness affected her. No guilt trip.
 

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First off before i give you any advice i would recommend looking at this site as it nearly perfectly profiles the INTP cognitive functions. You would also have to read up on the possible cognitive processes here

Please note that all of this is based off the textbook definition of INTP lifestyle mixed with my experiences. She WILL be different in many ways, and as such some information here will be off. So with that out of the way, lets continue.

I am an INFJ, my oldest daughter is an INTP. For the most part we have always gotten along well and are very similar. As she's gotten older (17 years old now), we are having more difficulties... I see SOOOO much potential in her, she could succeed and do whatever she wants, however she seems perfectly content to be mediocre. Yet she gets upset when others around her are doing what she wanted to do & she's not. I want to yell at her, push her, just anything to open her eyes, but that always backfires so I keep my mouth shut. I don't know how to get through to her.
As you are an INFJ and your daugher is an INTP, you differ on two points. You naturally prefer to be with people and have fun with them. You also prefer to have your events scheduled and organized. This is in big contrast to your daughter who prefers being alone to a fun night out, because she just gets tired after too much socializing. She also prefers to leave things open and somewhat disorderly, as having a tight schedule or orderly room is too restrictive/too much work.

According to some, "INTPs are known for their brilliant theories and unrelenting logic - in fact, they are considered the most logically precise of all the personality types."(16personalities.com/intp-personality) If something catches her interest, she will dedicate unbelievable amounts of energy into it. Otherwise she will not really care about it at all. As you said she is 17, i assume she is in high school. As such, i'm sure you can find many classes where she got perfect grades, while the others just... ehh. This is why she would get upset if someone else does something she wanted to do.

About leaving a mess around. INTPs have this wonderful ability to, at least in their minds, make things invisible, let me explain. An INTP mind, when it comes to a living space, is utility oriented. You will be hard pressed to find many decorative things in an INTP's room that was put up by them. With a utility oriented mindset, anything that isn't useful to the person at that point just kinda blends in to the background, and it is never seen again until it is needed again.

She also has this terrible habit of wanting something and if someone disagrees with her or if she actually gets her way, all the sudden she doesn't want it anymore. Then she pouts because she wanted it, but now she's too prideful to take it. She likes to misinterpret what other say as well. I don't know how many times we'll have a conversation like what's for dinner and I'll say "I don't want that" and then she says "well never mind we just won't eat". I seriously don't have the energy to deal with her at times. She always has a plan of her own but never wants to share it with me, then gets mad because she we aren't doing what she wants.
I don't know what exactly you mean by "She also has this terrible habit of wanting something and if someone disagrees with her or if she actually gets her way, all the sudden she doesn't want it anymore. Then she pouts because she wanted it, but now she's too prideful to take it." So i won't comment about that in this post, if you want to clarify, please reply with a quote so i can see it.

Anyway directly after that, i'll assume you meant "She likes to misinterpret what others said as well" and work off that. An INTP is generally logical when it comes to things, so when you say "I don't want to eat that" then that means that food is not available for this meal, assuming everyone is eating the same thing. INTPs are also completely oblivious to subtle words between the lines like that. When you say you don't want to eat it, we instantly come to the conclusion that you don't want that as this meal, and as such, will make a different selection.

INTPs are among the most secluded and alone types possible, assuming that there is nothing that is needed of them, it is common to not see an INTP for an entire weekend, for example. This leaves the INTP alone with their thoughts, which is where all the ideas come from. Tangent aside, I don't think your daughter is mad that you aren't doing what she wants, its more that you are taking precious time away from her thoughts. As mentioned above, INTPs get rapidly exhausted, both phsically and mentally, from socialization, and that would include these activities you mentioned. If you really want to do something with your daughter, you need to do something she enjoys doing. Otherwise she will just be cashed out and thinking about the things she could have been doing if she wasn't there.

Worst of all, is this attitude from her. I don't think she means to come off as abrasive as she does but it feels like she is attacking me. I literally feel like she is projecting negative energy bombs at me. It's to the point where we can't even have a civil conversation. I try to talk to her about it, asking her to be more aware of how she says things. She doesn't seem to care. It's gotten to the point that she is living with her dad for awhile because I constantly feel under attack and we needed a break.
I'm not sure what I'm even asking for...maybe just to know if other INTPs do this and what can I do to get our relationship back on track? I feel like I can be very honest with my youngest daughter about our problems but not with her. I'm afraid I'm going to send her over the edge with a wrong comment. Is that fear irrational with INTPs or am I justified? Thanks for any input y'all can offer.
INTPs, as mentioned above, are oblivious to subtleties and pleasantries. If you ask an INTP a question, you will get a direct answer, no sugar on top. As such, you should probably stop reading between the lines with what she says. To an INTP, the point of a conversation, most of the time, is to exchange information. So stuff like hello and goodbye just get in the way.

When it comes to your problems, you should probably be honest to her about it. INTPs are great at coming up with unconventional, but effective solutions to problems, just don't ask for relationship advice on the spot, shes gonna need some time to research stuff like that.



I hope this in depth explanation helped you understand your daughter better than you did before, if you have any questions, as mentioned above, reply to me with a quote so i see it. Good day
 

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I see SOOOO much potential in her, she could succeed and do whatever she wants, however she seems perfectly content to be mediocre.
You have to remember that INTPs care very little about the physical world. We will do just enough work to keep ourselves comfortable. Have a bed to sleep in, food to eat, and an internet connection, these are the only things we require to live. If we can find an easy job which provides these things for us, we are content to do that job for the rest of our lives. As long as it doesn't take up too much of our time.

I want to yell at her, push her, just anything to open her eyes, but that always backfires so I keep my mouth shut. I don't know how to get through to her.
This is exactly the opposite of what you should do. If people yell or try to push me to do things I am 100% going to start going the opposite direction. Bullying does nothing but piss me off. Trying to trick me into doing things is just going to make me think you are a conniving asshole. I can see through your bullshit.
In this case you want your daughter to succeed. Tell her that directly. Literally tell her, "I think you have the capacity to do great things in your lifetime. Here are some ways you could accomplish that." And if she dismisses what you say, throwing a tantrum isn't going to accomplish anything.

Also, just certain things like her room looking like a tornado just went through it, or leaving glasses or food in the living room, or milk on the counter...she says she doesn't notice it and if she does, it doesn't bother her. Drives me crazy.
This is a regular INTP thing. I am 27, and my room is still always messy. Your daughter is going to have a messy room until the day she dies, most likely, so get used to it.
As for the kitchen, if the fact that she leaves a mess bugs you so much, set aside a section of counter for her, and only her. Tell her that she CANNOT leave things on any other part of the counter. If she leaves glasses and plates on your section of the counter, tell her that she needs to move it. But her incessantly about it if she leaves things on any other part of the counter. But she is free to leave her part of the counter as messy as she likes.

She also has this terrible habit of wanting something and if someone disagrees with her or if she actually gets her way, all the sudden she doesn't want it anymore. Then she pouts because she wanted it, but now she's too prideful to take it. She likes to misinterpret what other say as well. I don't know how many times we'll have a conversation like what's for dinner and I'll say "I don't want that" and then she says "well never mind we just won't eat". I seriously don't have the energy to deal with her at times. She always has a plan of her own but never wants to share it with me, then gets mad because she we aren't doing what she wants.
Uhh... I don't know.... She's 17, so I guess you're still going to have those weird teenage things happen. Some of that shit just doesn't make sense.

Worst of all, is this attitude from her. I don't think she means to come off as abrasive as she does but it feels like she is attacking me. I literally feel like she is projecting negative energy bombs at me. It's to the point where we can't even have a civil conversation. I try to talk to her about it, asking her to be more aware of how she says things. She doesn't seem to care.
INTPs discuss things extremely directly. Emotion is almost never a factor in any discussion. And this: "I literally feel like she is projecting negative energy bombs at me." will just make us roll our eyes at you. Take everything she says at face value. DO NOT try to read between the lines and figure out what she is feeling. She is saying exactly what she means to say. If she is talking to you, she is telling you exactly what she means to tell you. If you freak out and start ranting about how she is being negative, she will simply stop talking to you.

I'm not sure what I'm even asking for...maybe just to know if other INTPs do this and what can I do to get our relationship back on track? I feel like I can be very honest with my youngest daughter about our problems but not with her. I'm afraid I'm going to send her over the edge with a wrong comment. Is that fear irrational with INTPs or am I justified? Thanks for any input y'all can offer.
I'm not sure what this was about either, other than maybe you just wanted to bitch about your daughter being a bad daughter. Keep in mind that she is still 17, and she has issues. She doesn't have all her shit figured out, and won't for quite a while. Stop pushing her to be something you want her to be, and let her figure out for herself where her life is going to go.
 

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I am an INFJ, my oldest daughter is an INTP. For the most part we have always gotten along well and are very similar. As she's gotten older (17 years old now), we are having more difficulties... I see SOOOO much potential in her, she could succeed and do whatever she wants, however she seems perfectly content to be mediocre.
That is something that I am constantly railed with. I can do things. Some of them rather well. That does not mean that I enjoy them. That I "click" with them. I'm still searching for that. I'm still looking for something that I can get up and do every day without feeling like I am condemned to any of the 7 rings of hell. Teaching, programming, language, maths, music... I'm still searching. But I have periods between those where I don't really do much of anything. I was trying to learn german about.. 9 months ago. I haven't really started a new project since then. This is probably the longest stretch that I am going through.

Yet she gets upset when others around her are doing what she wanted to do & she's not. I want to yell at her, push her, just anything to open her eyes, but that always backfires so I keep my mouth shut. I don't know how to get through to her.
You show support for any interest she has. You don't push. You can pry, you can ask if there are any interests. You can try to show us interesting things. But do not push. I had that happen. I was bored of high school and was debating running start, getting my GED, or some other alternative. I got pushed. The decision wasn't mine in the end. I took running start to keep someone happy. And you know what? I kinda regret it. My first quarter I thought I could handle 5 classes. Two english, a law class, a foriegn language class, and a pe credit class. About a month in I stopped going to all of them. The next quarter I tried 3. Just three. An english, a history, and a pe credit. I gave up. It wasn't what I wanted. I pushed through and eventually finished.. but..
I felt it was a mistake to let those I trusted know that I was debating my options. I felt betrayed, cornered. Weighed down by expectations. Held to a path that was not my own. I still resent them for that. I'm still hurt by that.

Also, just certain things like her room looking like a tornado just went through it, or leaving glasses or food in the living room, or milk on the counter...she says she doesn't notice it and if she does, it doesn't bother her. Drives me crazy.
My room. My space. My pattern. It looks bad? What do I care for the appearance? It looks dangerous? I can walk in here just fine. You can't? That is fine. It's mine. Shared living space is obviously different. But I basically have a "don't impose your views on my space".


Worst of all, is this attitude from her. I don't think she means to come off as abrasive as she does but it feels like she is attacking me. I literally feel like she is projecting negative energy bombs at me. It's to the point where we can't even have a civil conversation. I try to talk to her about it, asking her to be more aware of how she says things. She doesn't seem to care.
My mom and I to a T. I don't fully understand this yet either but what are normal answers and reactions to me, are taken harshly by her. She keeps making comments about how I seem to hate her. I don't. I just don't.. really have much to talk with her about. We don't really have much in common.. or shared interests. Part of that just has to do with when we talk about any issues any comment I make about issues on my end is perceived as an attack on her end. I have to hide too much from her as it is.

I feel like I can be very honest with my youngest daughter about our problems but not with her. I'm afraid I'm going to send her over the edge with a wrong comment. Is that fear irrational with INTPs or am I justified? Thanks for any input y'all can offer.
Each person is different. That aside, you should be able to talk to her. Perhaps she won't want to talk, or be able to talk right away. She may need time to sift through and sort things out.
 

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Just going through points in random order.

Messes are inconsequential. Unless you can provide a very logical explanation to why she should tidy her room you're out of luck.
As for leaving dishes you should demand that she puts them away properly and explain to her that just leaving them is extra work for you. Also, there's a health/hygiene aspect to that.

I see SOOOO much potential in her, she could succeed and do whatever she wants
First of all, what does she want? I'm 28 and I don't have anything I want to do. The second issue is that "potential" doesn't really mean much. There are few things that you can't do with hard work. If one likes it, then working at it should not be an issue.

Hearing "you have such potential" is one of the most enervating things. Often people say that from where they are sitting. They don't see the obstacles, the problems and the actual requirements.

A common trait for INTPs is to lose interest in things once we understand them. Continued work at it would be a waste of time. We just want to understand it, not go on a world tour with it. "it" Being whatever activity we're currently discussing.

The abrasive thing probably comes from stating things as they are perceived. She's not being abrasive, reality is!

She always has a plan of her own but never wants to share it with me
No she doesn't. An INTP with a plan is like a bunny with an ATV; could happen, but I wouldn't expect it.

A lot of things like the attitude probably is not related to being INTP.

Keep in mind that depression comes with free shipping for INTPs so keep an eye out for that.
 

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I was a fairly civilized teenager, and even though I skipped school quite a bit I never failed any courses. I can only speak for myself, but I get easily stressed if I have to do many things I'm not interested in - and high school is full of those. My both parents are perceivers, so I didn't clash with them a lot on that level. I even often told my mum that it's a nice day today and I'm skipping school because I would rather spend time outdoors. She gave me a bad look (she's a teacher after all), but didn't try to make me feel guilty. It meant a lot to me that she trusted my judgement.

These are just random ideas (coming from a person whose teenage years are long gone), but I would try these:

1. Let her room be a mess. Suggest that she cleans after herself in other house areas and in exchange you won't say a word about how her room looks like. Just accept she's not going to be tidy. It took me almost 30 years before I learned to keep my surrounding a bit cleaner.

2. Don't pressure or try to guilt her into living up to her "full potential", whatever that is. She is probably very confused about what to do with her life and it's perfectly normal. INTPs often find themselves late in life and it can't be rushed.

3. Don't complain about her behaviour unless it's absolutely necessary. Constant nagging is horrible.

4. Trying to get her share her feelings is probably useless, so it may be better to not even try. When sad things happened in my life and my dad tried to ask me how I feel, I completely shut down. It made me feel so uncomfortable. Casual chatting about thoughts on politics, what's wrong with schooling etc. is better if you want to connect with her.

5. When you have to reason with her, use logic. Logic and maybe fairness appeal to me far more than someone's (irrational) feelings.

This isn't to say you can change her by changing your behaviour, but perhaps a bit more relaxed attitude would help take the edge away from things. Frankly she does sound a bit annoying. I have an INFJ friend who has often gotten frustrated with me because she thinks I'm wasting my life and I have a bad attitude. I'm not sure why it's any of her business, but I can only imagine what it would be like to be an INFJ mother of an INTP. You INFJs can be very success-orientated and you forget there are other equally good ways of living.
 

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First off, how sure are you that she really is INTP? Also out of curiosity what type is her dad? Is her relationship with him any different?

A part from that, i think there are already some good answers in this thread so i'll just respond to this part:

Worst of all, is this attitude from her. I don't think she means to come off as abrasive as she does but it feels like she is attacking me. I literally feel like she is projecting negative energy bombs at me. It's to the point where we can't even have a civil conversation. I try to talk to her about it, asking her to be more aware of how she says things. She doesn't seem to care. It's gotten to the point that she is living with her dad for awhile because I constantly feel under attack and we needed a break.
I'm not sure what I'm even asking for...maybe just to know if other INTPs do this and what can I do to get our relationship back on track? I feel like I can be very honest with my youngest daughter about our problems but not with her. I'm afraid I'm going to send her over the edge with a wrong comment. Is that fear irrational with INTPs or am I justified? Thanks for any input y'all can offer.
I was thinking, maybe you're being too direct in discussing emotions with her. INTPs don't like to talk about their emotions. It could be that she feels attacked. For an INFJ dealing with emotions can be just normality; weathering a bad emotion can be like a sailing a lake with choppy water. No big deal. It passes. But for INTPs, it absolutely is not normal. It can be like a hurricane. Howling wind and driving spray. You get off the boat looking like Nick Nolte after he was arrested. We learn to become good meteorologists to avoid the storms in the first place.

You could perhaps try approaching her in a detached way. All cards need to be laid on the table. All honest feedback ought to be encouraged. BUT BY ALL MEANS, keep your emotions out of this discussion to the greatest extent possible. They could have become toxic to her. You need to get into INTP logic mode temporarily. If you do, it's a possibility that she could feel safe enough to open up and share what the problems are.

This is all speculation, but basically, you are inviting her to have a logical conversation, a problem-solving session. That could feel very safe and calming to her, so long as you play by the rules and KEEP YOUR EMOTIONS OUT. It is imperative that you keep conclusory, emotion-based statements out of the conversation, such as "we have a connection" or "I feel like we are getting along now". Stick to evidence and analysis. If your daughter clams up during the conversation, apologize and figure out what you said or did to cause the reaction. Really make an effort to absorb and build on the information she gives you. If you appear like you can't handle this kind of sharing and working together, she may stop trying and disengage. If she is talking honestly, then keep it going! Keep it building. You are on your way to reconciliation.

I hope this helps.
 

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Honestly, I think just like everyone else, she just needs to struggle. Send her off to college and she'll soon be rocketed violently into adulthood. It wasn't until I was starving that I had to step up my game and grow up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Wow! Thank you all for your responses. Your insight has helped tremendously! I have read and thought about each of your posts and I've also read all the links (plus others that I've found, I swear sometimes I "feel" (ha ha) like I'm a close cousin of you INTPs-I thoroughly enjoy research just to learn & can get lost for hours online reading things :))

There are so many comments I want to quote but I would end up with a novel of a post, so I'll try my best to summarize. Academically she actually does very well naturally. She is in many AP classes and the only C she has ever gotten is in Calculus - which she has struggled with horribly. She would have dropped that class if she wouldn't have to take it again in college. As she has gotten older, I find that if she's not truly interested in what she's learning she doesn't care to try very hard. However, she can bullshit her way to an A without any problem! I don't know how she does it, she can avoid working on a paper and an hour before bed the night before it's due, she will have a minor freak out, write the paper & get a good grade. She also has a knack for being able to convince her teachers to accept late work w/o taking off points.

She was always very good athletically as well. The last couple of years I can tell her heart isn't in it. She participates but doesn't seem to care that she doesn't place or make State games. She seems to enjoy the social aspect of it, she has a couple of friends that she has bonded with, which is nice, she can't always sit at home on the couch by herself :) My problem is that I feel (again with the "f" word) if you are going to do something, then you should go all out or not at all. For her, she is happy enough to just be. I used to try to motivate her, but now I've learned to just sit back and let it go. I guess if she's happy then that's all I can ask for.

I know all this seems like it contradicts what I said in my original post, but it really doesn't. I've noticed a decline the last couple of years. She used to try hard & was very competitive & now it's more like "eh, whatever". Some days she just doesn't want to deal with life & I can't count how many times she's stayed home from school. Ultimately, it's not that big of a deal, it just as her mom I want the very best for her.

Also we have very similar interests are are more alike than anyone could ever know, When I can engage her with music, food, or travel, we thrive. I can honestly say that given the chance, her & I could travel & eat all over the world for years without many problems :)

I have to admit that over the last year or so I have progressed leaps & bounds in how I communicate with her. As I learn more about our personality types, it really opens my eyes about how to approach things. That's not to say we don't have our moments. She is a teenager after all & is subject to those raw emotions bursting out. In the past I pushed her & would say things and she would shut down. For awhile, her favorite phrase to me was "just stop talking!". It took me awhile, but I finally learned to do just that. I have learned it's better to just sit back & not react with emotion (I'm still working on this, but it's so much better than it was). When we have a "moment" I will calmly say I cannot talk to you right now, I am upset and walk away. Sometimes she accepts that & we can talk later, other times she will push and want to "fight" it out. I choose to not engage her in that because I know how devastating I can be when I'm pushed too far. So I walk away for both our sakes.

I do want to clarify that a couple things that might not have been clear. I do not nor have I ever pushed my ideas of how my kids should live their lives. It is my job as a parent, to guide them and to give them the proper tools so that they can make their own choices in life. I may not always agree with their decisions, but I always support them, 100%. We have a good relationship & most of the time we have a great time together. However with divorce and 3 hormonal girls living in the same house...some days are tough. I did not come here to bitch about my daughter, but to only ask what is normal behavior and how I can change myself so that I can improve our relationship. I love both my children dearly and only want them to be happy, healthy, safe, self confident, successful (in whatever way success means to them), independent, and have the ability to love themselves and others.

I do thank each and every one of you for your responses.
 

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Honestly, I think just like everyone else, she just needs to struggle. Send her off to college and she'll soon be rocketed violently into adulthood. It wasn't until I was starving that I had to step up my game and grow up.
as a potential INTP that is indeed feeling the effects of hunger for the first time. I can attest to this. I've seemingly lost my lazy mode over night, thats not to say it won't come back but it does go to show that shit will get done when it needs to be.
 

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I'm also a INTP female with an INFJ mother, but you seem more laid back than mine... mine would -actually- snap and yell at me about how much potential I've got and why don't I try harder and blah blah blah

About the room being a mess and leaving things all over... INTPs tend to be messy. And we tend to turn objects invisible. We can put something down when we're done using it and in our minds it kind of ceases to exist unless/until we decide we need it again. My mother finds this infuriating. I'll finish a cup of tea and leave the cup on the counter, knowing I'll go back to use it later. She'll get upset that I've left it there because even though I see it as "I've put this here and when I need it again it will still be there and I can use it" she sees a mess and me not caring. Because I spend so much time inside my head and so little time in the real world with everyone else, there are a lot of times when I really, genuinely don't notice if there's dishes out or if I have something I need to put away. If I'm not using it or it's not directly effecting me or hindering whatever I'm doing, it basically doesn't exist.

My mother and I also have the problem of me coming off as abrasive and her interpreting everything as negative. 90% of the time whatever I'm saying isn't meant to be negative but she still interprets it that way. Part of the problem is that I tend to be very straightforward in my manner of speaking. I don't do small talk, I don't like tiptoeing around the subject, no sugarcoating. I don't like speaking much in general. So a lot of people se me as being very blunt and to the point. Another part of the problem is that we have very different expectations of what the relationship should be like. Mom wants time spent together, discussions about what's going on, "bonding" time, etc. I need time alone, and don't care for discussions or "bonding" time. I'm not touchy-feely, not affectionate, don't care much for relationships in general. And it's not like that only with her, but with everyone. But because she seeks those things in our relationship and I don't give them to her, she feels upset and defensive and then starts looking for negativity and attacks in everything I say, even though they were never intended that way. Because I suck so bad at Fe I probably won't notice anything other than "mom is mad at something," and will probably try to detach myself from the situation because I don't understand the reasoning behind her being upset, and definitely don't know what to do about it. She'll then interpret THAT as an attack and me silently saying I hate her when again, it was never intended that way. (If I DID hate her, I wouldn't expend so much time and energy letting her know. I'd just cut things off and leave it.)

As your daughter gets older and matures she'll learn to express herself more and deal with other people better, but you also need to understand that she needs space and that if you're trying to "build a relationship" or anything of that sort too vigorously, it'll be exhausting and irritating to her. INTPs tend to be pretty passive. We don't like conflict so the chances that she's doing things purposely to upset you or to start a fight are very slim. Speaking from experience, she probably finds your interactions highly confusing("why is she upset? I'm not doing anything on purpose. Why does she take everything so personally?") and exhausting, and is acting as a reaction to that.
 
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