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Google :laughing:.

Some techniques I figured before looking like remembering triggers to emotional responses but there were some unexpected ones.


I already know some to control heart rate (I'm not that good with that yet) and other to raise body temperature that I used to miss school when I was a kid - until my mom made me go with fever :crying:.
If we're trading tricks for messing with a body, I know how to pass a polygraph test.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
'I did tests to see how to get better results, not to better activate mirror neurons' - 'I know what mirror neurons are, I've researched a training program on my own and did some tests to better use them when learning motor skills.' - contradicting points.. you're actual for some reason very oppositional.

'Feeling exactly the same is pretty much impossible' - how can you think that when you know about mirror neurons. the neurons are firing the same thing they see. i don't think you get a similar feeling but just less intensity and you know that it's of the object because you suddenly feel as you're looking at the object. anyway you didn't give any more explanation for the point and i'd already said the less intensity similar emotion part ie a mirrored emotion so guess we'll have to stop talking about mirror neurons, but just learn about them more and you'll probably agree with me or be able to explain your point.

what i mean by humans weren't meant to make faces manually is that expressions are just meant to happen as nature evolution designed them to. this is an obvious idea as where do the manual fakers get the ideas for the expressions from, of course they get them from the expression that have naturally happened that we naturally recognised as a certain emotion... and what are you saying 'what they do is part of them' ? by 'meant to' i'm talking about evolution.

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This seems better.' great but i asked a post or so what your idea of it is and what words you'd use to describe it.

'
Most people are trying to hide how they feel most of the time, the best ones at socializing tend to be psychopaths and they don't have empathy.' - this is what i'm learning about it sounds pretty fucked up i'm starting to better deal with psychopaths just realising they're probably the most 'normal' and are just the most animalistic and feel the worst on their own stuff like that and also aren't right brained at all perhaps.

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The face is not a very reliable place to look at as everyone is paying attention to and keeping it in check.' - self contradicting...as i wonder where you're looking for all your cues in your training system? micro expressions are by definition the expressions that one can't control; they leak. s all facial expressions are abitrary shapes? obviously i mean that say when the lips go down into a frown that's arbitrary. that's why i said shapes not. when you say your eyes get ready for a fight surely that means you're now agreeing with me about micro expresions and stuff you can't control etc. i've been through the stage of making facial expression regardless of how i feel and to do that is insane basically normal or not i think it's insane to always do it.

you didn't explain at all me asking about your 'it's yes or no'... what was that? i did spend a paragraph showing you me trying to work what it could possibly mean...



what is the training program btw or where can i check it out? seeing as i've told you about my method i'm interested in yours.

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I'm trying to figure if "there was something in his eyes" is mostly just backwards rationalization or they actually were noticing the cue' - this clashes with your other point 'Your eyes get ready for a fight' a little.

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There aren't that many cues that you can't hide or fake, if you use dark glasses, control yourself and practice a bit pretty much all is covered.
' - micro expressions. one can't control them by definition. but luckily not a lot of people will see them. they're practically the same as subliminal messages in advertising, ie just a microsecond and the face has changed to another one of it's 10,000 expressions. sorry but i don't think the system you're going by is what you think it is ie it's good for whatever purpose but there's more to faces than just being able to read them the way you are. it's all about mirror neurons and deep neuroscience etc. everyone has a subconscious part of their brain and some things are related to that subconscious part. if you already had enough right brained thinking then you could perhaps every so slightly catch a flashing image of the micro expression you saw or at least maybe like a trace of 100 micro expressions that went by in like a quarter of a second but even then it wouldn't be of much use because you would have already got their feelings due to mirror neurons which is a real bit of science and i and others have/will experience it. i admit it's an uncomfortable thought that some people will just visually see more than others (and probably be worse at general systemising clever thought) and perhaps even more uncomfortable knowing that one can change their visual processing to be at the same as them.. learning about right brain left brain and neuroscience and then changing up thinking style and experiencing it is how i came onto this stuff that is very similar to midnfullness meditation what people are doing now etc.

it's not that bad understanding that micro expressions are involuntary because like Scelerat said and i think too and know from experience that a lot of the time people or perhaps a lot of people aren't in the mode where they're taking in a lot of sensory information regardless of whether they're looking at a face or bit of art or a song they don't take in enough to get a feeling and to be fair when you're getting the feeling you are taking in more sensation because you're utterly thoughtless and then you notice the face more as it is so you notice the rapid movements of the face and body movement etc but to see each micro expression compared to the other... you're going about a very left brained way of doing a right brained thing. think about you're detecting what you understand people should/must be feeling whereas some people literally feel what they're feeling (to some intensity) as they see them and hear their voice... and it really does feel like you're experiencing their experience ie doing what they're doing just simultaneously as you're hearing/watching them. like your method is so intricate that you think heart rate and body temperature is a sign of something... a person's mirror neurons are activated by their own sensation ie the visuospatial of your movement/facial movement and the sound of one's voice so they don't hear/see the heart beat directly or feel the temperature. but if you're saying controlling those things is a byproduct of generally the aim of controlling your own mood aka fear and then your heart beat will go down etc then that would relate to it. i'm not in love with my theory because it's awkward work to get into it this mode because you're literally changing your brain to an extent to allow in more sensation taking away symbolic filtering by thinking in the sensation way rather than meaning - trust me it works and again people do get the vicarious experiencing of others. but because your theory is nice as it leads to learning what to do and then just doing it i think you're really gleaming to it and don't want/can't believe new thought. great thing about the mirror neurons method a it's a sensational state you're literally in the moment and also you get a feeling from any facial structure like cartoons etc - also you get the same experience from people on tv - it' sjust a visual and sound sensation of their voice and movement everything their body does. learn the science behind mirror neurons and you'll find it hard not to believe the stuff about not being able to fake it and the other stuff we've been saying.

out of interest did you write some of that micro expression part of the wiki?

@Scelerat

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I'd be inclined to agree with you based on my research on psychopathy. From what I've read a psychopath can mirror exactly what he or she pleases at a target because their actual feelings do not interfere with the message they are trying to send. I'm fairly expressionless, yet even with me most perceptive people can get clues to my actual emotions, thoughts and reactions because you can't hide what is automatic.' - agreed about last bit. i'd about the psychopath if they have no emotions then they can't recognise emotions they can try to fake them but essentially that would mean remembering how it feels to contort their muscles constantly so the expressions of wide eyes one gets during idk shock or anger that will actually strain their eyes and be painfull - they're just struggling an upward battle i think.

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Micro expressions cannot be concealed but luckily most people do not even notice them consciously or known how to interpret them' - haha you'd made the same point i had before i even read this.

i think the eyes do show someone's feeling it's an uncomfortable idea that they just do but from an evolutaionary perspective it would work really well because communication is as fast and simple as the two primates looking at each other and in the predator environment when any second can come the attack and you need to be looking every just glancing at the other person and they know your eyes are scared. a good question is whether it's the actual eyes that give information or the muscles around them in the eyebrows and eyelids as well as rapid movement of the eyes. pupil dilation we probs respond to as well - fear makes the pupils get bigger doesn't it? and then there's 'bedroom eyes'.

alx's points:
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i think in reality what actually happens if someone wheres dark glasses in the most inappropriate places aka anywhere apart from a very sunny bright room or poker then people will feel uncomfortable around them or suspicious the glasses wearer will naturally get these bad vibes and then their body lanuage will leak it out to anyone who's really looking at them.

'
making them not dilate when you are getting an adrenaline rush doesn't seem possible (discounting drugs, etc).' - this is probably then the chemical that's happening for both fear and ancitipating making out with someone (bedroom eyes).

 

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'I did tests to see how to get better results, not to better activate mirror neurons' - 'I know what mirror neurons are, I've researched a training program on my own and did some tests to better use them when learning motor skills.' - contradicting points.. you're actual for some reason very oppositional.

They aren't contradicting points, I did tests to better use them for a purpose other than better activating them.


'Feeling exactly the same is pretty much impossible' - how can you think that when you know about mirror neurons. the neurons are firing the same thing they see. i don't think you get a similar feeling but just less intensity and you know that it's of the object because you suddenly feel as you're looking at the object. anyway you didn't give any more explanation for the point and i'd already said the less intensity similar emotion part ie a mirrored emotion so guess we'll have to stop talking about mirror neurons, but just learn about them more and you'll probably agree with me or be able to explain your point.

Less intensity or higher intensity was what I was talking about, I've missed if you said what you said here before.


what i mean by humans weren't meant to make faces manually is that expressions are just meant to happen as nature evolution designed them to.
Nature/evolution "designed" them to do everything they do, including faking.


This seems better
.' great but i asked a post or so what your idea of it is and what words you'd use to describe it.

I'm not interested, I will probably never talk to no one in real life about this and I speak another language.


Most people are trying to hide how they feel most of the time, the best ones at socializing tend to be psychopaths and they don't have empathy.' - this is what i'm learning about it sounds pretty fucked up i'm starting to better deal with psychopaths just realising they're probably the most 'normal' and are just the most animalistic and feel the worst on their own stuff like that and also aren't right brained at all perhaps.

They don't have empathy, don't know what you mean by "feel the worst on their own stuff".

The face is not a very reliable place to look at as everyone is paying attention to and keeping it in check.' - self contradicting...as i wonder where you're looking for all your cues in your training system? micro expressions are by definition the expressions that one can't control; they leak. s all facial expressions are abitrary shapes? obviously i mean that say when the lips go down into a frown that's arbitrary. that's why i said shapes not. when you say your eyes get ready for a fight surely that means you're now agreeing with me about micro expresions and stuff you can't control etc. i've been through the stage of making facial expression regardless of how i feel and to do that is insane basically normal or not i think it's insane to always do it.

I'm not contradicting myself. The more reliable cues come from other parts of the body, tone of voice, you don't just look at a single cue, why would you do that, if a single cue is 60% of the time right doesn't mean I shouldn't use it. Knowing the person usually is better still.


you didn't explain at all me asking about your 'it's yes or no'... what was that? i did spend a paragraph showing you me trying to work what it could possibly mean...
You'd bitch about it, I didn't understand what you wrote on that paragraph.


what is the training program btw or where can i check it out? seeing as i've told you about my method i'm interested in yours.
Nope.
:tongue:



'
I'm trying to figure if "there was something in his eyes" is mostly just backwards rationalization or they actually were noticing the cue' - this clashes with your other point 'Your eyes get ready for a fight' a little.
No, as I've said, your eyes change depending on what you are feeling and people talk about psychopaths eyes all the time, it doesn't clash with anything.

There aren't that many cues that you can't hide or fake, if you use dark glasses, control yourself and practice a bit pretty much all is covered.
' - micro expressions. one can't control them by definition.

Then people are attributing the term micro expression to way too many expressions, since these can be controlled.

but luckily not a lot of people will see them. they're practically the same as subliminal messages in advertising, ie just a microsecond and the face has changed to another one of it's 10,000 expressions. sorry but i don't think the system you're going by is what you think it is ie it's good for whatever purpose but there's more to faces than just being able to read them the way you are.
Whatever I don't notice I let my intuition ("expert intuition" which has been show scientifically to exist) deal with it and there is a lot more than faces in deciphering people.

it's all about mirror neurons and deep neuroscience etc. everyone has a subconscious part of their brain and some things are related to that subconscious part. if you already had enough right brained thinking then you could perhaps every so slightly catch a flashing image of the micro expression you saw or at least maybe like a trace of 100 micro expressions that went by in like a quarter of a second but even then it wouldn't be of much use because you would have already got their feelings due to mirror neurons which is a real bit of science and i and others have/will experience it.
It is of use to me, I can have empathy looking at a rock being crushed and that's extremely unreliable, everyone can "feel" how good their elected politician is and be wrong again every election.

it's not that bad understanding that micro expressions are involuntary because like Scelerat said and i think too and know from experience that a lot of the time people or perhaps a lot of people aren't in the mode where they're taking in a lot of sensory information regardless of whether they're looking at a face or bit of art or a song they don't take in enough to get a feeling and to be fair when you're getting the feeling
Most people are very clueless to what is happening at their surrounds, that's true, there are quite a lot of funny magics exploiting this.

you are taking in more sensation because you're utterly thoughtless and then you notice the face more as it is so you notice the rapid movements of the face and body movement etc but to see each micro expression compared to the other...
I'm doing it the other way around, I chunk lots of information at single pieces like a chessmaster or anyone that learns something really.

you're going about a very left brained way of doing a right brained thing.
The right brain never did much of a good job.

think about you're detecting what you understand people should/must be feeling whereas some people literally feel what they're feeling (to some intensity) as they see them and hear their voice... and it really does feel like you're experiencing their experience
If I want to, like when watching a movie and I decide to feel (not that the actors are actually feeling it, it's just my projection).

ie doing what they're doing just simultaneously as you're hearing/watching them. like your method is so intricate that you think heart rate and body temperature is a sign of something...
I just mentioned that as examples of how many things people commonly believe aren't controllable consciously but actually can be controlled - obviously heart rate and body temperature are sings of something though :D, flight or fight reflex really mess up with your body.


Will read the rest other time.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
That's too long. :crying:

I will try to read it some time this week.
ok though our exchange about micro expressions is probably pointless at this stage. at least i think you should look up mirror neurons and the science itself of natural facial expressions compared to unnatural expressions.
 

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I won't share publicly the things that give the ones I"m training a edge.

Now you managed to get me pissed of. :proud:

You write in a way that is horrible to read, I try to keep calm and answer while you keep insulting me.

If behavior like yours is fine here I don't see the reason for me to be here.


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Good Bye nice INTJ's. :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
I won't share publicly the things that give the ones I"m training a edge.

Now you managed to get me pissed of. :proud:

You write in a way that is horrible to read, I try to keep calm and answer while you keep insulting me.

If behavior like yours is fine here I don't see the reason for me to be here.


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Good Bye nice INTJ's. :wink:
and you're sharing with me that you're pissed off for what particular reasons... intimidation. please don't do that.

'You write in a way that is horrible to read, I try to keep calm and answer while you keep insulting me' - i could have mentioned this about you i didn't. you'll have to point out any insults i've made to you. i haven't been insulting you have that's why it's not a surprise that you just mentioned how bad my writing is and i'd restrained for a long time about directly telling you how unintelligble 60% of your sentences and phrases are. it's why you respond to my points 'this is stupid' or you assume when i ask you why don't explain stuff 'you'd bitch about it' in fact just ignoring 50% of the questions asked to you about your points is pretty damn rude.

'it was not with the intention of mocking you (at least consciously :laughing:)' - see the at least consciously bit on the end that implies an unfriendliness.

'I'm 25 but I'm already god. :proud:' - you got asked how old you are and you respond with that strange i guess douchey response. also if you're having a discussion with someone and they said to you they don't like the way you're using emoticons at them then don't continuously up the amount of emoticons in your posts.

'I'm not interested, I will probably never talk to no one in real life about this and I speak another language.' - that was your response to me asking you what you think about my personality system and that's what this thread is about - how rude and ridiculous so please don't comment here anymore.

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About you asking my age I thought:

- probably old.

- unlikely to be an INTJ.

- emotionally attached to your thesis.

- think you are intelligent and think I think you aren't intelligent.

- annoyed.' - also you didn't exactly apologise or anything like that after i responded to your negative assumptions about me informing you the only one that was correct was the annoyed one. nor did you present them in a way that showed consideration for the possibility that your negative assumptions might not be true. you stated them as fact and thus insulting.

so how dare you try to make out it's my behaviour is bad and wrong. you're deluded about the discussion matter because as it turns out you have a some kind of living off your method which means you can't accept a new belief and you're probably the one who wrote that disgusting, evil wikipedia entry on natural liars and men who cry or whatever (which was another simple, innocuous question i asked you about which you shamelessly ignored - you're not a very pleasant conversationalist person to discuss something with).
 
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