My reaction to incels and redpill and my opinion of love in general (I guess it´s kind of a vent)

Rihanna said:

Hope my attempted reply was of use.

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Your attempted reply was of big use. I am very grateful for it, cause it validated everything I believed. You basically articulated everything I thought in a way I never could. And it was flattering, too. Thanks for your time !
And I really appreciate it, if I can´t put my appreciation into words... I´ll just let the fact that I spent my entire day thinking about it and writing a reply cause I was inspired by it, speak for itself. You make so many Good points ! Like surprisingly so... I didn´t even expect that... I mean I look at it each time and I am always impressed. You said so many Awesome points. So thank you a lot !

[TLDR: Uhm... you don´t have to... read anything else I wrote here... If you want to hear my response to your criticisms just read first few sentences of every paragraph. Y-you don´t have to read anything of what I wrote here below xDDD Just in case you´re interested but I really don´t force you. I have trouble with keeping things short because one response only triggers more questions and I really am just letting everything out and I spent mostly the entire day thinking about it and writing it (also most of it is unreasonable and inappropriate so there´s no really point in reading it) and it was Fun ! So... it´s not like it was time wasted. Okay I hope I didn´t forget anything (also sorry for being weird) (also sorry for overwhelming you with brackets and unnecessary information) (and sorry for apologising, I am not scared of you, don´t worry (and sorry for assuming that you thought I was scared of you)...(I am sorry for everything that you dislike about this reply(I only say that so that I don´t have to take any accountability for it, shhh))]

Rihanna said:

Interesting post. First half my reaction was ..." dont let that redpill stuff rot your brain. Best bet is to ignore they exist. I've attempted to do the same yet it's like the algorithm wants to shove it into my feed, needlessly. They're too far gone for reasoning, mostly. You're closer to the point than most of those guys. "

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Yeah, that´s how I feel, too xD Especially about people who are completely unfamiliar with it.
I actually feel sorry for incels, too, y´know. I think dating can be really wholesome if you don´t tie it too closely to your self-worth. That´s why I think unconditional self-love is important. Because then... you are gonna start improving because You Love others... not because You hate yourself, or the worst case scenario, resent others for disliking you.
I actually thought about trying to help some incels out. That was one of the reasons why I posted this post, I wanted to know weather I do actually know at least a little better than them.

Rihanna said:

And what you value for your reasons, as you said is not what other people will value in whatever moment they are in their lives or position they are in their mind's reasons. Call it selfish but what do you want? People to not go after what they want and like? What kind of dystopian shit show do you wanna run. Such is to be life. JP I actually don't see as particularly bad actor, but he certainly does talk to aggregate trends as seen on a larger social level and not to individuals. Which is a downfall in clarity. If he said "female validation is crucial" he meant it on an evolutionary, big picture scale of perpetuating the species. Unless you wanna rape them for conception. If women choose their partners, you'd want to be attractive to a woman. So he talks to what is attractive to women on the scale of broad trend. I.E ("provider, protector, ....) The usual culprits of positive masculine appeals. He's in the social sciences after all and that's what he studies.

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Actually my point about unconditional Love was meant more of a ,,Everyone has a right to basic amount of worth and Love, otherwise there´s no way you can ever grow to Love someone else." And yes I will call them selfish, because I will not allow their kinks or preferences to damage my self-worth.

One of the things that actually pulled me out of the incel redpill mentality was the fact that I was looking up to girls. They say ,,Sometimes it takes a man to be the Best girl." and I believe the same applies even in the opposite. If you want to know how to be a real man, my hypothesies is that you should look up to women. Cause they know what a real man looks like.
I noticed that the women I know are logical, moral and selfless, they know their self-worth and always seem to care about the greater cause. Annoyed by the immature boys who care about nothing but getting laid. So instead of looking up to insecure men I know, I started looking up to those girls. I wanted to be just like them and or even better than them. And that´s what actually lead to this post.
(So actually I do want to become better... y´all just kinda ignored the part where I say that)

Actually you know what ? You made me remember. The reason why I got a crush on that girl is because I looked up to her. She striked me as proud, strong willed and kind. Looking at me with these Beautiful judgmental eyes. And I spent several days thinking, how could... It wasn´t about wanting to be Loved by her. It was about... how could I make her happy. She reminds me of me, yet compared to her I am completely nothing. The idea... that I would be this endless void of patheticness and stupidity started to scare me.
Deep down, I feel like I am nothing. Like I am harmful to everyone around me. In a novel I am writing I assigned my self-insert character to the conception of death, clumsy, unfocused, unpredictable... Cute, welcoming, yet gravely dangerous and out of control. A part of me that represents desecration, apathy and sheer and utter unconditional worthlessness.
And the pride and judgement in her eyes, made me want to kill this part of myself. I don´t want anyone to get hurt, I don´t want anyone to be devalued. I want her to be proud, I want her to be strong. I don´t want to disappoint her.
So I knew I don´t deserve her. But I can´t be dependant on her approval. She isn´t dependant on anyone´s approval. She´s better than me in every way and that´s why I had a crush on her. And I wanted to become her equal. If not to be in a relationship with her, then to at least restore her faith in humanity.

Rihanna said:

You mentioned that girl, that "...I also know that she doesn´t want that. That´s not what would make her truly happy, I wanna give her more than that." Do you actually know what that girl wants? Did you ever ask or get to know it? Or are you projecting a fantasy onto this girl of what you think she would want? This is not a gotcha. There's no wrong answer. Just something to ask yourself, if you haven't already. I mean if she's the average girl then she likely wants, security, kindness, financial ability...whatever. If she's not the average girl then maybe she is seeking what you're putting out and you're a perfect match.

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Oh yeah and this next part is kind of scary, so I apologise for that. I actually don´t know her much. I only hear about her and I saw her few times. And I was telling myself like ,,C´mon, you don´t even know her you can´t like her like that." but before you know it I can´t stop thinking about her. I am sorry I am talking about her so much, it´s so creepy to think that there are other people like me. She doesn´t deserve any of this attention, I don´t know what is wrong with me. Obsessively thinking about someone I barely know, dude, it´s terrifying. So I would never even think to resent her for anything xD In truth I probably don´t even like her, as you said, probably just a false image of her, based in what I already know about her. But still my Love for her has been torturing me for days, so this is a Good model to explore my feelings with. So this is basically, just an exploration of my feelings towards a general Love interest.
So basically yes, I guess I am projecting a fantasy onto this girl. Poor her, nontheless my point still stands.
I want to be better than everyone else. Exclusively, so whatever it is that she´d want I´d give it to her. Because... I guess I wrote ,,I want to give her more" because I was thinking of all the wives that live with a husband who can offer them security but... not much else. You see... it always bothered me whenever I saw a girl with some duchebag. I know this is a very stereotypical situation but just because people like that are mocked and being marked as jealous doesn´t mean I am not gonna be true to myself. I believe that some husbands are idiots and I can do way better than them. I believe that money, security and agressive dominant attitude is not enough. It may be the acceptable minimum but it´s not enough. And it´s not because I want to feel special, really. I already know I am special, I don´t need proof for that. It´s because I want the girl´s hopes and dreams to be respected. I want her to feel special as well. I don´t want her to settle down for an idiot just because he´s the only option.
And I am not looking to disrespect any guys. I am not even forcing anything onto any girl. I am just gonna be over here, doing my own thing, if you like it come along.
If you want to be mysoginistic high meintenence cattle, if that´s your romantic fantasy then go on ahead, I don´t care.
And I know I am projecting all this on everyone, maybe they are happy in which case, fine. I even got depressed for a while over the possibility that maybe she isn´t as Awesome as I think. What if I really like her only because she is better than me, as I mentioned earlier ? And what if I become better than her ? Then... she´s gonna be acting like me ? Will she be desperate for my approval ? Will I stop admiring her (Yeah this is basically gonna get disproven later on in this post) ? What if she isn´t better than me and I actually just hallucinated.
That´s when it came back to unconditional self Love. What I find attractive and what I have been thought is that I as a person and everyone else is entitled to status, riches and Love, You just gotta prove that You are.

Maybe she even does care about the approval of others :O That would be a turn off... kinda... n-not really.

Rihanna said:

The other thing is in truity, if we're being blunt, love is conditional. If not, you would love every girl, not that one girl who lit up. Your love was conditional on her having a certain reaction to you or being otherwise adorable. Something that earned your affections. Maybe cute, dare I say. People have other 'ticks.'

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The reaction she had to me wasn´t what made me have a crush on her. Her reaction simply made me happy because I think she deserves to be excited and happy. Her smile was the answer to my internal suffering. Cause I was worried sick for her.
What actually did make me have a crush on her immediatelly, was that she reminded me of myself. That stubborn, proud, judgemental attitude. And I wanted her to feel as Loved as I do, because if I get to feel this way, she deserves it, too. ESPECIALLY, if she´s exactly like me... sigh... I guess I really have high narcisstic tendencies.

I will tell you this, I Love every girl. It´s just that I´d Love this one a little more because she is like me or better than me. But I don´t deserve her for that exact reason. So who am I to set the conditions ? Maybe I do wish I could Love this one in particular but who am I to decide ?

Or maybe... maybe my Love even offends them. Maybe they think they don´t deserve to be Loved for the way they are and that they can do better. Well in that case, that´s the end for me. Cause I can´t compare to whatever it is that they want to become.
My Love in this case... would once again... become a representation of death. Death of potential. Sometimes conditional Love is necessary for growth, right ? Well I don´t believe I can grow.
That´s why I was with my narcisstic girlfriend(yeah, I wrote a long paragraph about her but I... can´t find it ?), she was with me because of how pathetic I was. And I was with her because I just drag everyone else down. If she was capable of growth, I wouldn´t dare to slow her down but she isn´t... just like me.
Despite everything, I Love myself and I want everyone to feel the same way about themselves as I do.
I have one condition. I gotta be able to make you happy. That´s all. Fat, skinny, old, ugly... well not stupid, I don´t appreciate stupid girls, so I guess that´s a condition but that´s just because I can´t stand being around a person who reminds me of my deepest flaw, and I would probably even Love a man just fine. I can show them Love. Cause who the f*ck am I to make conditions ?
I do actually have kind of a hero complex when it comes to... well actually everyone. I act feminine around guys, so that they feel needed and valued and I act masculine around girls so that they feel wanted and valued. (Which is why I was in a relationship with a narcisst. I could feel that she feels unworthy and I wanted to make her happy, though that was soon to be found out as an impossible task. I find it very tragic. Seriously, where is the paragraph I wrote about her, it was so good and it made so many points. The main point being ,,I was dating a narcisst which means that basically my Love is nearly unconditional because of my Hero complex. (I mean she w- No I won´t repeat myself, that paragraph was somewhere here now it isn´t here)) It´s really easy for me to gain respect from men but not so easy with women.
You confused me, you made me think that my Love is conditional actually and it took several looooong conflicting paragraphs to figure out that actually it isn´t.
But it´s funny how I got to that conclusion. Because I myself am the condition. If you demand something I am not capable of, then you can´t date me. I will not do anything I can´t do. So that narows it down. So I dunno, is it conditional, is it not conditional ?
I lack standards.
And as far as sexual attraction goes. I am already sexually attracted to myself so. And the fact that I am better looking than someone turns me on, anyway.
I guess only conditions would be don´t be a freak and don´t harm me ? And I have to know you well and for a longer time, so that, too.

[TLDR: Some people are offended by unconditional Love. And I as hell am not capable not entitled to have conditional Love]

Rihanna said:

Now I will say the downfall of Fi dominant position is you are too independent in your evaluations. Too separate from the tribe. And you don't feel yourself wrong all while complaining about the outcome. This is a tad narcissism. A result of perceived moral superiority and relative self absorption.

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Yeah, I believe I am nothing, yet I Love myself fiercly. If you are better than me and willing to settle for me, then I´ll be happy. If none wants you and I can be your savior, sure. I admit I have a massive narcissm in me. It´s... it´s kind of sad actually. I am so extremely self-absorbed it´s alarming, actually. If I could f*ck myself, I would. Ha ha, why does this joke resonate with me so much. Yeah i-it´s not a joke. I am so hot it´s making me depressed. Y´know, I am all I need, I never really had any friends and when I did I would only see them like once a month. My Best friend is me.
That´s why my Love is unconditional. You just gotta find the right approach.

Wait... I DIDN´T EVEN SAY that my romantic Love is unconditional, in my original post. I said that everyone deserves a fair share of unconditional Love. And yet I made two blocks of text about how it is !
Wow, the things You make me say.
But as it turns out, it mostly is.

W-why am I saying all this, again ? Y-you didn´t ask, did you ?

Rihanna said:

And what you value for your reasons, as you said is not what other people will value in whatever moment they are in their lives or position they are in their mind's reasons. Call it selfish but what do you want? People to not go after what they want and like? What kind of dystopian shit show do you wanna run. Such is to be life. JP I actually don't see as particularly bad actor, but he certainly does talk to aggregate trends as seen on a larger social level and not to individuals. Which is a downfall in clarity. If he said "female validation is crucial" he meant it on an evolutionary, big picture scale of perpetuating the species. Unless you wanna rape them for conception. If women choose their partners, you'd want to be attractive to a woman. So he talks to what is attractive to women on the scale of broad trend. I.E ("provider, protector, ....) The usual culprits of positive masculine appeals. He's in the social sciences after all and that's what he studies.

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And also, despite all this, I want to improve the Best I can. I never said anywhere that I don´t xD (I said it several times throughout this and that post but just to make it clear)

ENFPathetic said:

I don't care whether you're competent or not. I just don't understand why you think having an expectation of basic competence from an adult is an evil thing. You could answer the question instead of being a flippant brat.

P.S. I'm not "you guys". I'm me.

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Wow, okay. Well, I never said it´s a bad thing, I said that ,,I" don´t care about it. If I acquire competence I will do it for other people. It will never matter to me, or at least I think it won´t. I am not entitled to be praised for it, I don´t care to be praised for it. I have no interest in it being a part of my ego. I will tell you this, actually, y´know... working... putting effort into something, always felt humiliating to me. And getting praised for wasting my time, even more. So what I wrote is the result of that. There´s nothing wrong with it but I will keep it as far away from my ego as possible. So the reason, why I keep bringing up this point so much, is because to be Loved for THAT is not Cool. If... I work my a*s to aquire status, money, all this s*it. It really says more about the worth of the people I do it for, than about my worth. Because I don´t want that s*it to have anything to do with me. And if someone´s gonna act like I did it for myself, well Imma get mad. I don´t care about how competent I am, weather it is not at all or a lot.
I dunno I just can´t bring myself to care, I just can´t.
Either I am qualified for something or I am not, there´s nothing more to it. If you start connecting your self-worth to it, it will only lead to arrogance, entitlement and resentment. And even if it didn´t, I honestly, really, truly just don´t care.
You know, my social circle does not respect me. Precisely for this reason. But there were instances where I actually managed to impress them by something and the immediate switch in their attitude towards me made me just disappointed in them.
And I don´t know what did I do to deserve such an agressive response to be honest, you see this is exactly why I keep quiet for the majority of time. Because whatever it is that I did I would do again and I would certainly not expect a reaction like that from it. So y´know, enlighten me if you wanna. I haven´t really had a conversation with anyone but my narcisstic ex-girlfriend in 4 years so if this is some kind of a rule. Like, I get I didn´t answer your question. But what did I do for you to call me a flippant brat ? Maybe I am a filppant brat, I dunno.

ENTJudgement said:

Whats really ironic is the stuff u said and your thinking process is exactly how a lot of red pillers and incels became red pillers and incels, you still don't seem to understand just the amount of control and limerence you're exhibiting. Putting that chick on a pedestal, looking up to her, bashing down your competitors (fellow men) and deciding on your own how great or how much you're willing to do for her, living your entire life for her and all that jazz is exactly what women don't want.

You're gonna replay that shit in your head over and over and to many women and you're gonna get rejected for that mentality which will in turn cause u to write more of these posts of wtf is going on? Why isn't this working? Then bash other men more who has absolutely nothing to do with your interactions with women you're limerencing about so you become isolated from both sides.

You need to chill, work out what you want to do with your life thats adding value to society, work on it and be passionate about it, become someone who is respected and valued by everyone, not just women but society in general and then you'll be more attractive to everyone, not just women.

It's also funny that you kinda answered your own questions i.e I see her as such a perfect specimen but her judgemental eyes scorns me coz I'm nothing, well u already know this then why are u directing your anger at red pill? Wtf does red pill got to do with her judging you for lacking value? (I know she didn't say this but your logic or assumption is this so I'm thinking from your perspective now and I'm seeing you just using Red Pill as a scapegoat to blame all your non-achievements on)

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Yeah, that´s exactly why I made this post. To know where I´m wrong.
But you´re getting unreasonably angry because I am not doing any of those things you are accusing me here of. Just to let you know, none of the feelings I described here, I ever acted upon.
I didn´t get rejected and even if I would I would not be angry about it in the slightest. I guess I should´ve put a trigger warning on this ?

ENTJudgement said:

It's also funny that you kinda answered your own questions i.e I see her as such a perfect specimen but her judgemental eyes scorns me coz I'm nothing, well u already know this then why are u directing your anger at red pill? Wtf does red pill got to do with her judging you for lacking value?

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Well yes I did answer my own question. I Love that judgement because it is truthful, when did I ever say I am angry at her ? I wrote that I look up to her and I want to become her equal. I said that I would want to make her happy. And I guess I didn´t stress it enough... but I do find the fact that I am obsessing over her so much inherently disgusting.
Dude, you have no idea how much she would hate me for whatever I wrote there ? It´s disgusting, creepy and obsessive.
Sorry I guess I just lack a filter !
The entirety of the posts I made had one theme in common ,,Unconditional Love" ,,Not caring about validation" so why would you assume I would get angry if a girl judged me ? The whole point of that part was to demonstrate that I, personally, don´t care that she thinks I am nothing. It won´t make me angry at her, it won´t make me spiteful, it won´t make me resentful. Because her judgement, to me, is just her opinion.
Okay she doesn´t like me, message recieved. I am glad she is truthful. If I ever want to date her, I will become better. But it´s HER opinion. HER business. Not mine.

The reason why I don´t look up to other men is because they take female judgement way too seriously. And it makes them in my eyes look pathetic.

I don´t dislike redpill because ,,I think it prevents me from getting a p*sy". I dislike redpill because I don´t agree with it´s values, pure and simple.

ENTJudgement said:

Putting that chick on a pedestal, looking up to her, bashing down your competitors (fellow men) and deciding on your own how great or how much you're willing to do for her, living your entire life for her and all that jazz is exactly what women don't want.

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I will just keep it simple. If she doesn´t want it, then I don´t want her. AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT OUT OF SPITE. I am merely stating facts. I obsess over people and I want to be obsessed over, if they don´t wanna, it´s their own business.

ENTJudgement said:

You're gonna replay that shit in your head over and over and to many women and you're gonna get rejected for that mentality which will in turn cause u to write more of these posts of wtf is going on? Why isn't this working? Then bash other men more who has absolutely nothing to do with your interactions with women you're limerencing about so you become isolated from both sides.

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I don´t bash other men because I am mad that my interactions with women are not working. I don´t dislike men because they are my competitors. I dislike them because I just do. And I dislike the women that like them as well. And it´s fine... You can be into whatever you want... I am happy you´re happy. I just don´t like it.
Yes, I sort of "bash" them. I openly dispise them. But not because they´re competitors. Just because I generally and geniuenly don´t like them.

You asked about why I ask for validation when I said I don´t need validation. It´s not as much about external validation as it is about knowing if other people are fine with it. I wanted to know weather what I feel is fine with other people and can work in practice. If what you´re saying is true, then it can´t work in practice. In that case, I will not act upon these feelings and give up on women.
I said I wanna make that girl happy. If I can´t make that girl happy then I won´t do anything.
I don´t care for external validation.
You can come here and tell me that everything I feel is wrong. Every woman on this planet can reject me and spit into my face. I don´t care even a bit. Again, It´s not as much about external validation as it is about knowing if other people are fine with it. If they´re not, then whatever.
Cause... I wanna make it clear, I care about other people. I maybe don´t care about what they think of me but I care about them. If anything I feel could be harmful to that girl, I am keeping it to myself. I will live my entire life in isolation if it means it´s gonna keep other people from harm. And I don´t resent anyone.

Dude I am disgusting, I know ! I will not bother anyone with it but I won´t feel bad about it either.


External validation is to know weather what I feel is acceptable and practical, to You. If it isn´t, then I simply won´t hang out around you. So that validation isn´t really for me, it is just to make sure that other people are willing to put up with me.

ENTJudgement said:

(I know she didn't say this but your logic or assumption is this so I'm thinking from your perspective now and I'm seeing you just using Red Pill as a scapegoat to blame all your non-achievements on)

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I don´t blame my failings on none but myself.

There is only one reason why I actually dislike redpill. It made me act like a complete clown around women for like about a week because it made me feel like my worth depends on them. I was actually close to acting the way you described.
And I don´t like it because I see redpill as inherently selfish from the perspective of women.
This is why I don´t respect guys who take female judgement so seriously. Some girl just comes along and completely annhiliates your self-worth because her p*sy wasn´t wet. Is that what I´m supposed to be looking up to ? If that girl wanted she would play these guys like a fiddle.
Do you know why I look up to that girl ? It´s because she doesn´t give a s*it about what I think of her. So why should I give a f*ck about what she thinks of me ? Women, unlike all of those incels, have a spine. Or maybe they don´t maybe I am just projecting again but that´s besides the point.

That´s why I look up to her. Because she isn´t crying over in a corner being sorry for her existence like everyone else.

I will just say it like this. I want to have a spine. I disagree with the values of redpill on a fundemental level. I disagree with what men value. And I disagree with what women who like those men value.
And from the way I am seeing things. It looks like almost every men I know also disagrees with those values, yet they conform to them. Yet they act like redpill is their bible. Yet, they base their entire self-worth on it. That´s what I dislike.
Sorry for being so unhinged, it is late and I am kind of rushing it.


So THE ENTIRE POINT OF MY POST WAS: MEN, HAVE SOME SELF WORTH. Your feelings are valid.
I will say this... I think redpill values are unreasonable and stupid, that doesn´t mean I am gonna hate girls for having them. But you can´t magically make me think to myself ,,Oh yeaaah, muscles, money, status, that´s all that matters." sure TO YOU and what are YOU to tell ME what I should value about myself ?

So in case, I still seem like a bad person, or creepy, or whatever. I just wanna say... If the entire world thinks I am wrong, I will bury myself somewhere and we´ll all be Cool, okay ?
If you disagree me, if my crush disagrees with me, I will stay the f*ck out of your life.

[TLDR: Look, if non of this was still enough to convince you that you´re wrong about me. I will just repeat this again. I care about people, I would never do something that would hurt them physically and psychically. I wasn´t rejected by anyone, nor did I make anyone uncomfortable. I don´t blame anyone for my failings. And I am not entitled to anyone´s affection. Okay ?]

ENFPathetic said:

You ever heard this song before?

You're young so you've probably only experienced the random crush like kind of love that requires zero effort and eventually fades as randomly as it appeared.

The kind of love that can sustain a long term relationship is hard work. It takes consistently doing things to make your woman's life easier to stay in love with her.

Listen to the words of the chorus. "lovin' you.. is easy cause you're beautiful". This is indeed true. The more beautiful you are, the easier it is to love you. And we already talked about how love is about making the lives of the people you love easier. Well, when it comes to your partner in particular, what could make her life easier than making what is normally hard work(staying in love), easy, by simply taking care of your appearance.

That's where competence comes into the picture. It's also easier to love someone who is competent. Sharing your life with a competent partner gives you confidence and makes life easier. Same thing with kindness. A kind person is easier to love. And so on.

Love is a two way street. And just as it's hard work on your end to stay in love with your woman, it's hard work for her to stay in love with you. And if you really care about the bond you share, then why play stupid and pretend this shit doesn't matter when it clearly does? Accept it. And don't be insecure about it. She will love you for who you are. And your looks, manners, and competence will make her role as your lover a lot easier.

The end goal is to enjoy life together right?

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You called me a brat for no reason. You see, you think that my "unconditional self/love" is an excuse to be incompetent. Well it isn't. It is actually a value I believe in. It is a value I am willing to fight to protect. The right to be Loved and valued stripped of all the materialistic bulls*it.
I am not pretending like that s*it doesn't matter but it has hell does not matter to me.
It´s not about aquiring worth by status and competence, it´s about living up to the worth that was always there !
The actual reason why I am incompetent is because none ever held me to any standard and didn't care nor rewarded my efforts. But that's about to change very soon.

Do you know what I fall in Love with in people ? Basically their narcissim. I LOVE myself. And I want everyone, except for a*sholes and people with values that inherently contradict that desire, to Love themselves as well. The less you give a s*it about what others think of you, the more I am gonna be attracted for you. I am entitled to everything and I want them to be entitled to everything as well. I want everyone to get what they want, except for bullies and butthurt arrogant morons.
And that is my core value. It is not an excuse to not work, or to not be competent. It is the reason I am gonna become competent. So that people feel Good about themselves for hanging out with me. And so that I can put arrogant a*sholes in their place more effectively.

Do you really think I would force a girl I Love to be in a relationship with an incompetent idiot ? Of course not but if I ever aquire a valuable status, it will be for her. She will have a husband that makes her look better in front of everyone, she will have a husband that makes a lot of money, a husband she can be proud of.
It's for her. I don't need any of that s*it for my self worth. Every piece of work I will ever do, I will do for others. Not to prove anything to myself.
If you love me for my strenght, competence and status, I stand by it that you don't love me, you love yourself. And that's alright but don't bulls*it me about it.
,, We make life easier for those we Love." well that is not my definition of Love. I try to make life more meaningful for those I Love, first and foremost. But... I actually aspire to have people be obsessed with me so don´t worry, I will make it easy. But I will do all that because I believe that the people who Love me deserve the Best ME I can be ! I believe I deserve to be Loved, I believe I that everyone, including me, deserves the best, all they gotta do is prove that they do.
I even said it ,,In a world where people believe in unconditional Love the most important thing are other people." and the opposite is self evident. The opposite world would be pointless, lacking in meaning.

And that's another thing, you say each of us has to make their part to make themselves more Lovable. None I know ever had to try to make themselves more Lovable for me and I would never ask it of them. After all this, I still feel like my Love is mostly unconditional, which in itself can make me unattractive.
There is only one condition... Don't be a d*ck.


And now, what the f*ck ? You are exactly the type of person I despise. You called me a brat. Why ? You have broken the single most important condition I have and that's you insulted me, while unprovoked, while you don't even know me. You lost all my respect there.
What is wrong with you for treating people like that ? How did you even want me to react ?
Competence to me is the means to shut down agressive people like you. The only reason why I still care about your opinion is cause you're older, and I have no idea what did I do to drive an adult to act like that ?
I am the brat here, really ? No, I sincirely don't think so.

If you believe yourself to be worthless without your status... Then hell, you deserve everything that mentality brings you. Your mentality seems like hell, I don´t even have to hate you, you already hate yourself well enough.
I am not letting you drag me down with you.


I am not good enough for anyone but that doesn´t mean I am gonna let people bash me for it. I still can´t get over the fact that you called me a brat. Yeah, okay... I am sorry for my existence, okay ? You are right, I should hate myself until I get all the things that I don´t have. And then I should yell at people who don´t have it and at people who aren´t impressed at the fact that I have it. Do I not deserve basic self-respect ? Alright, insult me insult me insult me, bring it oooooooooooooon ! Let´s see how productive I am gonna become. WoW I can already feel how I´m turning into a better person. Wow, I totally don´t hate everyone right now, not at all.
Yeah, I am totally not gonna take short-cuts, act arrogant and play pretend to upkeep my so very conditional self-worth. Absolutely nooot. I will work hard to repay you the Love you gave me. You know what, one of my big dreams that I have right now, is to call you a brat one day. And actually have the moral high-ground in that situation, I wanna become a man that is capable of doing that.
I still don´t get what is wrong with having a basic self-worth, entitlement to love and to not hate yourself even if you´re not at your Best right now ?


I want to improve in every way I can. Whoever is gonna be my wife is gonna have the Best husband in the world, in her eyes. But... I´d like to get there motivated by Love, not by a petty need to validation. I will improve because I Love myself and the people around me who don´t treat me like s*it. If that´s not enough, then I am disappointed. But I am open minded, sure, hurt me, objectify my feelings all you want. Let´s see where that´ll take us. Maybe it´s just gonna make me more motivated to shut down every disrespectful a*shole in my life.
All you did, is make me a little more resentful of basically everyone I know so today I had to work a little harder to hide my spiteful glare, towards people that don´t deserve it. That glare should be aimed at you, for making me doubt myself and act like an idiot once again.
Really... calling me a brat. There are two outcomes to this. Either I won´t care and I´ll pity you for having the need to be agressive. Or, I will step up my game by a long shot and make sure that next time someone tries this on me it won´t work.
Really I had nothing but everyone´s Best interest inmind when I wrote this. And you come along and call me a brat. Well enjoy your bullying while you can... I still don´t know if hurting me can improve the lives of my Loved ones better than Loving me. But once I find out, non of this s*it is gonna work on me anymore. Once I prove that I and everything I believe is of actual use to other people, then all my respect for you is gonna fall below zero.
But you know what... I wanna settle this... I don´t know what I did wrong but I am sincirely sorry for acting like a brat. Whatever it was.
I came here to see weather my believes can work in practice. According to you, they can´t. And you call me a brat while I come here to ask for validation, which is something I don´t do very often. You are a bully. It´s so easy to call someone like me a brat. And I wouldn´t even mind if I actually did something to you to deserve it.
I guess you deserve my respect but not my admiration.
R-really. What else did you hope to achieve ?

So I hope that concludes everything I wanted to say.

(And yeah of course, I am still young so I am not gonna work THAT hard, I mean not existencially hard like but that doesn´t mean I am not gonna work at all !)

ENTJudgement said:

You're the one who was "unreasonable angry" also why are you trying to focusing on tone and not the content? Waste of time.


I didn't really see any "unconditional love" from your posts, all I saw was you complaining about how men need to provide value to society to be deemed to have worth. Like if you can convince society that men are just high value from doing nothing then go ahead, I'll certainly benefit from that lol.



Now if a man changed the world for the better, who cares what his initial motivation was? The outcome is society all benefited from his achievements and thus a man who achieved greatness and society benefited from that greatness is always going to be seen as more "valuable" than a man who didn't need any external validation but didn't do anything coz the outcome is the first guy achieved and contributed, while the latter did not.


Ok, fair enough.


Lol ok u can dislike whoever u want I guess but everyone who u disliked is probably gonna dislike u as well, a lot of bridges were burnt for no apparent reason besides u just "disliking" them. Your life, do w/e the fk u want lol.


On one hand u say u dislike so many people and on the other hand u say u care about them, are you trying to say you care about only the people u like or are u saying u care about all the people u dislike despite disliking them?


Well I don't pick my friends based on where they are in their careers, like I have friends who are on welfare and don't contribute at all, they're the type who girls say "still lives in his mom's basement" but it doesn't mean he can't be fun to be around, on the other hand I also have doctors, lawyers, business men who are very successful and are have gone quite far in life, they can also be fun to be around.

If you ask me, which group of friends do I think are better for society or some sort of moral/principle question then I'd say the second group coz they're contributing, providing services or products to society which are needed but that doesn't mean I can't have fun with the first group.

But your questions weren't really about whether other men can be friends with you, you just started saying how you find X and Y groups of men disgusting for thinking they need to contribute or provide worth to society to be deemed worthy, only now have I connected what you mean together.


I think you seriously misunderstood the red pill doctrine, I'm not defending them I'm just relaying their message as I understood it, their message is actually telling you that you should go your own way as in, stop caring about what women think of you or anything pertaining to women, focus on your own life instead. That IS ironically what you're wanting to do but you somehow convoluted red pill to BLUE PILL which is to seek women's validation.


Having a spine is having the balls to go after your goals and successfully achieve them against all odds, are you saying that a husband with wife and kids is wrong for working extra hours for his family? Think about it, having some external reason beyond yourself isn't the issue, having NO sense of self is the issue, I believe it's important to have both external and self values, if you only have your own values, you might have trouble getting along with others and if you have no sense of self then you become a martyr, you need to balance it.

Fi doms in particular has too much sense of self, the main reason why you think like this is probably because your other functions, your inferior Te in particular hasn't developed yet, come back in 10-20 years and you'll understand.


I'm pretty sure you're strawmanning here and over simplifying everything to try sound more correct than you actually are, the underlying theme is really;

How should someone perceive value in someone else? It normally stems from what someone has done or achieved, you're challenging this and saying how one feels is just as valid? Well if everyone stopped achieving/working and just used feelings everyday then who is going to go out and do the work? You need a balance of both as I said before, all types have a T function in their Ego and a F function. T function is realizing that theres a series of problems you need to solve to stay alive and have a reasonable living environment, this is tied to achievements/work and the F function is about how you feel, morals, principles, values to stop people from over rationalizing and just killing everyone else to get the desired outcome for instance. They are equally important for society.

Red Pill as I've explained above is about going your own way as in, stop caring about what women think of you or anything pertaining to women, focus on your own life instead. It's just that a lot of Red Pillers talk on social media about other shit thats outside of the core doctrine of Red Pill and people forget that Red Pill was originally "Men going their own way", ironically, you are a man going your own way so you're actually aligned with the red pill from it's original foundings lol

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ENTJudgement said:

You're the one who was "unreasonable angry" also why are you trying to focusing on tone and not the content? Waste of time.

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Okay sorry, Imma calm down and oh yeah I´ll look into that, too.

ENTJudgement said:

I didn't really see any "unconditional love" from your posts, all I saw was you complaining about how men need to provide value to society to be deemed to have worth. Like if you can convince society that men are just high value from doing nothing then go ahead, I'll certainly benefit from that lol.

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Yeah, it actually has like one or two conditions... Main one being ,,Don´t be an opressive agressive d*ck" second one being ,,Don´t believe in stuff that supports the former."
If you´re gonna treat "low value" people with respect, maybe there´s gonna be less crime out there. That´s what I think.

ENTJudgement said:

Ok so what have u done to make yourself look great? You're 18 and keyboard warrioring on a forum trying to convince people that people don't need to contribute or do anything to be seen as higher value in anyway then what differentiates a great man from a low value man? According to you, the low value man is simply low value coz he had to work to prove that he was of higher value right? Look at all the men society has deemed to be "great" every single one of them have accomplished some very difficult and big goals, they essentially manifested or realized the dreams of many into the world and created change on a global scale, thats why they were deemed "high value" they accomplished their goals and their dreams, the accomplishment IS what differentiates a boy from a man, any person can dream, not everyone can make that dream a reality.

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Most men I know, maybe provide a great value to society but live a miserable life full of disrespect. They constantly chase self-worth, neglecting their own needs and desires, then they get used by their wife, mocked and humiliated and they see nothing wrong with it. That´s the men I see. I don´t know a man in my social circle that accomplished their dreams. The only man who seems like he´s having a Good time is my older cousin, who is all the things you want in a man... Tall, Handsome, Strong, Competent, Logical and smart and yet he spends his life playing videogames. Refusing to get a girlfriend because he couldn´t stand the nagging. And out of all the men I know, he is the most respected one and if not that... then he certainly is the least disrespected one I know.
If you don´t have basic self-worth beyond your achievements, you will chase achievments at the cost of your integrity. And then there are two outcomes. Either you are never gonna feel like you´re enough and let yourself be walked all over. Or they´re gonna become an opressive force which demands respect from everyone because they wasted their entire life chasing something that none actually cares about.
That´s why I believe there´s this ,,Women belong in kitchen" saying. Because these guys feel entitled to a reward for their achievements. They broke their spine to get "respect" and they demand you break your spine as well.

This is what I believe ,,If you base your self-worth on external factors you will be inevitabely miserable." Worth comes from within, everything else is just the means to defend it.

ENTJudgement said:

Now if a man changed the world for the better, who cares what his initial motivation was? The outcome is society all benefited from his achievements and thus a man who achieved greatness and society benefited from that greatness is always going to be seen as more "valuable" than a man who didn't need any external validation but didn't do anything coz the outcome is the first guy achieved and contributed, while the latter did not.

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And that guy sacrificed his life for the guy who didn´t need any external validation. Society maybe values the former but who is the real winner here ? You can´t convince people who don´t care about external validation to start caring by telling them they´re worthless. They´re gonna have to find worth from within. Something worth working for or towards.

ENTJudgement said:

Lol ok u can dislike whoever u want I guess but everyone who u disliked is probably gonna dislike u as well, a lot of bridges were burnt for no apparent reason besides u just "disliking" them. Your life, do w/e the fk u want lol.

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I say I dislike them but actually I just find them pitiful. And it bothers me that women find those pitiful men attractive. But it´s only at first glance, anyway. She may be impressed by the hard work you put in yourself but eventually she will come to see the insecurity that seethes from under it. And that´s why I believe divorces happen.
If you believe in your cause, you don´t need to be told you´re worthless to work hard for it. Or at least I think so. These men believe in nothing. They just want to be Loved. So they work for it and when they find out that it is not enough, they get resentful and they blame everyone. The one of the two outcomes happen, they use or get used. And the worst part is that I am supposed to be looking up to them.
Y´know... I know I said I dislike them but after what I wrote in the other reply ,,I don´t have to hate you, you already hate yourself enough." I actually did come to kind of respect those men. It´s tragically Beautiful that they are so desperate for the Love of a woman that they are willing to hate themselves for not being enough for them. The fact that they care so much about her opinion. It starts like that, it seems like unconditional Love towards a woman they want to Love... but then they get heartbroken over and over and with time they loose this innocent Love and all that´ll be left is desire for obedience and submission. And why ? Because they cared more about her approval than about her. That´s my theory.

ENTJudgement said:

On one hand u say u dislike so many people and on the other hand u say u care about them, are you trying to say you care about only the people u like or are u saying u care about all the people u dislike despite disliking them?

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I care about all people if I feel like I am valued. If I am allowed to treat myself with unconditional Love and self-worth, I Love all people. If I am not, I get very picky. That´s why I would rather Love myself, so that I can remain the compassionate self that everyone Loves.
So taking my self-worth away to motivate me to become competent. I don´t think that´s a good idea. It´s not gonna end well even if I succeed.

Now you could make the argument that my Love is worthless ,,So what that you hate everyone. None cared to be Loved by you anyway" That´s what I got from the other guys post. And if this is true then... yeah... I am nothingness floating in the middle of nowhere. I am nothing to none.

But here´s where it all starts to become negative. I don´t even need to become a criminal to take something from society. All it takes is for me to be suffering in silence and once people get to hear about my tragic story, it will get them shocked, worried and disappointed in humanity. So actually, my Love to other people matters even if I am useless. Because at least it lets them know they are doing a good job at preventing suffering.
Do you know what really motivates me to do better ? Kindness. I am get extremely uncomfortable around kind people because I actually feel bad for being useless around them. So I prefer spending my time around people who don´t like me that much because there I can be my unhinged self and laugh as they get mad over me having a good time. So once again, just proves that telling me ,,None will care about you if you don´t work" won´t make me improve. Or at least I think so.

ENTJudgement said:

If you ask me, which group of friends do I think are better for society or some sort of moral/principle question then I'd say the second group coz they're contributing, providing services or products to society which are needed but that doesn't mean I can't have fun with the first group.

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I think that if we focused more on inner value than external value, the first group would be able to contribute to society more. I believe that "basement dwellers" are the people who do not agree or fit with the general societal value system, as a result of that they feel worthless and unwanted and as a result of that they never grow. My older cousin is an example of that. He thinks that he can´t get a girlfriend while also maintaining a certain level of freedom, self-respect and independance. Or he thought that, he kind of got over that recently but still he just chillin.

ENTJudgement said:

I think you seriously misunderstood the red pill doctrine, I'm not defending them I'm just relaying their message as I understood it, their message is actually telling you that you should go your own way as in, stop caring about what women think of you or anything pertaining to women, focus on your own life instead. That IS ironically what you're wanting to do but you somehow convoluted red pill to BLUE PILL which is to seek women's validation.

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But here´s the thing, I don´t wanna give up on women. I only said I would in case my desires would be considered inherently harmful to them. Which you made it seem like they are. In that case I do give up on getting women.
But if I am not harmful to them, then I still want a girlfriend. And I think that the Best way to have and maintain one is to not base my self-worth on her judgement. If she judges me, I will not cry over how worthless I am, I will improve for her, because that´s what SHE wants. I like to think that no matter what I do, I will never be any less or more of a man than I am now. If she wants more, it´s her. When I improve, I will still see myself as what I always was. The only thing that will improve will be her level of happiness.
And if she leaves me, I will not cry. Either I will wish her Good Luck or I will tell her what a b*tch she is for being so ungrateful... Depending on the reason she breaks up with me. But I will say all that, while being completely sure of myself.

ENTJudgement said:

Having a spine is having the balls to go after your goals and successfully achieve them against all odds

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That´s exactly what I´m doing here

ENTJudgement said:

Having a spine is having the balls to go after your goals and successfully achieve them against all odds, are you saying that a husband with wife and kids is wrong for working extra hours for his family? Think about it, having some external reason beyond yourself isn't the issue, having NO sense of self is the issue, I believe it's important to have both external and self values, if you only have your own values, you might have trouble getting along with others and if you have no sense of self then you become a martyr, you need to balance it.

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Yeah, exactly, here he´s a winner. He does it cause he wants to and believes in it. And that´s admirable. I completely agree here. I agree with the last sentence especially.

ENTJudgement said:

Fi doms in particular has too much sense of self, the main reason why you think like this is probably because your other functions, your inferior Te in particular hasn't developed yet, come back in 10-20 years and you'll understand.

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The problem is when people try to get me to use Te while stamping over my Fi. I will use my Te in sync with my Fi. And for that reason, I will not back down in what I believe.

ENTJudgement said:

I'm pretty sure you're strawmanning here and over simplifying everything to try sound more correct than you actually are, the underlying theme is really;

How should someone perceive value in someone else? It normally stems from what someone has done or achieved, you're challenging this and saying how one feels is just as valid? Well if everyone stopped achieving/working and just used feelings everyday then who is going to go out and do the work? You need a balance of both as I said before, all types have a T function in their Ego and a F function. T function is realizing that theres a series of problems you need to solve to stay alive and have a reasonable living environment, this is tied to achievements/work and the F function is about how you feel, morals, principles, values to stop people from over rationalizing and just killing everyone else to get the desired outcome for instance. They are equally important for society.

Click to expand...

I value self-worth in other people, if you tell yourself ,,I am better than that" I see value in you. I see the potential. I don´t value people who tell thesmelves ,,I am worthless so I have to compensate for it by hard work." I mean... nice that you are working, respect for that, but c´mon... I don´t even think it´s possible to live with this mindset without something going wrong.

ENTJudgement said:

Red Pill as I've explained above is about going your own way as in, stop caring about what women think of you or anything pertaining to women, focus on your own life instead. It's just that a lot of Red Pillers talk on social media about other shit thats outside of the core doctrine of Red Pill and people forget that Red Pill was originally "Men going their own way", ironically, you are a man going your own way so you're actually aligned with the red pill from it's original foundings lol

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Yeah, but I really Adore women. That´s why I made this post, I want to actually be Good for them but without becoming resentful in the process. That´s why I wrote what I wrote. And that´s why I put ,,that chick" on a pedestal. I want to be women´s equal. Internally and externally. And I certainly don´t f*cking want to creep them out or harm them.

Um, also I am sorry for causing such chaos, I lack a filer sometimes.

ENFPathetic said:

When you expand on your thought process, I don't see a lot wrong there. But I will warn you about one thing.

Obsession: I've lived threw three different types of obsessions. One where I was obsessed but she wasn't and it did a lot of damage to my self respect but I was too into her to notice. A few situations where I was being obsessed over and it was suffocating, and that made me realise how I must have made the girl I obsessed over feel in the beginning.
And the last one happened two times where I was in a relationship where we both obsessed over each other. It was exciting but completely unsustainable. One time I nearly got kicked out by my landlord for not paying(I skipped work so I could time with her), and she nearly failed her final year of university(she skipped classes to spend more time with me). And the other time my friends got so mad at me because I spent the entire night before an important match talking to my girl and I ended up playing shit and lost the game for my team.

If you're going to have that type of relationship, try to make sure you don't have to worry about finances or other important responsibilities. And also your friends and family are going to miss you and wonder what happened to you.

Having said all that, I have to apologise to you. If you're asking for the reason I called you a brat, it's because I found it disrespectful that instead of answering my question, you responded with a seemingly sarcastic response. And if you're asking if you deserved it, no. You didn't deserve it. That's on me. For being impatient with you and lashing out. I'm sorry.

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I understand that money and all that jazz is important for life but I don´t want to build my relationship on it and I want none else to be forced to build their relationship on it. I have been happy my entire life and completely for free. I was always given unconditional Love, I won the genetic lottery by a long shot. I never had to lift a finger to get all the affection in the word, so why should anyone else ? I feel sorry for incels and my whole idea is that I want to prove that all it takes for a person to Love you is for you to geniuenly selflessly Love them. That if you manage to understand the other person and to excite the other person, you are gonna have a high chance for a good relationship. No matter the status, no matter anything materialistic.
I want every man, every incel to get a good chance at dating. I don´t want it to be a competetion, I want it to be more about compatibility. Just get in touch with your masculinity and start using it for other people. I am sure there is someone for everyone as long as everyone does just that.

But it´s starting to seem like everything I´ve believed in is wrong. Maybe it was wrong that I was raised with so much unconditional Love.

But that´s the point, I have no self-worth. Absolutely nothing to base my self-worth on other than my looks. So if I started to measure my worth, let´s say, by how much women are attracted to me. That wouldn´t end well AT ALL. I simply can´t afford to feel bad about it, right now. I can´t take their insults to heart, I can´t let their resentment affect me. I have to keep Loving myself, otherwise I will start making my low self-worth everyone else´s problem. I hope I will not end up that way.

ENFPathetic said:

And also your friends and family are going to miss you and wonder what happened to you.

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Already happened xD

ENFPathetic said:

Obsession: I've lived threw three different types of obsessions. One where I was obsessed but she wasn't and it did a lot of damage to my self respect but I was too into her to notice. A few situations where I was being obsessed over and it was suffocating, and that made me realise how I must have made the girl I obsessed over feel in the beginning.
And the last one happened two times where I was in a relationship where we both obsessed over each other. It was exciting but completely unsustainable. One time I nearly got kicked out by my landlord for not paying(I skipped work so I could time with her), and she nearly failed her final year of university(she skipped classes to spend more time with me). And the other time my friends got so mad at me because I spent the entire night before an important match talking to my girl and I ended up playing shit and lost the game for my team.

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Damn sounds like a Fun life xD
Yeah I lost all my friends, brought my entire family into despair and tears and at the top of that allowed myself to be abused. But it was Fun, I liked it.

ENFPathetic said:

I found it disrespectful that instead of answering my question, you responded with a seemingly sarcastic response

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Yeah, I should watch myself. You´re not the first person who lashed out at me like that. I don´t know what it is exactly that has people have such a reaction to me all the time. It happens always when I get comfortable around people. I don´t even know, maybe I do have some sort of sub-conscious arrogance, an asumption that I am just better than other people and ,,there´s nothing wrong with that". None ever held me to any standard, I never had to work for anything, so I guess that even though I don´t really have any ill will, I do have a tendency to disrespect and undermine people and their achievments. But I don´t mean it, I really just am oblivious to the work it took to get there. Everyone is better than me and I wonder why. Now that I´m thinking about it, that is probably why everyone I know resents me so much. Come to think of it, Thank You for making me realise that. I guess that does fit the definition of a brat.
Ahh, I thought all this time everyone hated me cause I´m stupid but it was actually because I wasn´t able to understand their pride, ohh. Is that it ?

Thank you for your response ! It made me act like a d*ck for a while but I guess there was value in it. Hey, would you believe that the people who resent me the MOST are always ExFP types ?
I guess it´s because Te is kind of their biggest pride, cause it´s not fully taken for grated but it´s still something they´re really good at if they put effort. The same way that I am proud of my Ni.
And damn f*ck, I guess now I see why my sister is so damn insufferable. She´s like me but on steroids, she throws ALL the respect for literally everything out of the window. She´s an ESFP.
Okay I guess it´s time we get a hobby xDDD
Thank you for your apology, too, it made me feel significantly better. I am gonna try to make use of your criticism.

(Still though, now that my eyes are beginning to open, I am starting to feel like there´s something deeply wrong with me xD)

ENFPathetic said:

I know you want to help. I believe you want to do the right thing. But how much thought have you put into the ideas that you think are the solution? You believe that if you love someone unconditionally, they will love you for it. I believe that to be incorrect. I believe that if you love someone unconditionally, it is you who will love them for it. For example. Think of the parent's love for their child. The mother suffers through nine long months of pregnancy, then a painful birth. And that's only the beginning of her struggles as she spends many sleepless nights caring for her infant. And then you have the father. How many fathers do whatever it takes to provide for their infant and it's mother, without any regard for their personal safety or well being.

And then let's think about this. Who loves who more. I mean, sure. Most children love their parents. But is it to the same degree?

In my life. The children who loved their parents the most, also happened to be the children who took care of their parents the most. And the parents who loved their children the least also happened to be the ones who didn't take care of their children.

Conclusion. It is not being loved by others that makes us love them. It is regularly caring for others that makes us love them. Which means that we don't control how others will feel about us. Nor can we hold anyone but ourselves responsible for how we feel about others. It's as simple as this. You want to love your family, or your partner, or your friend? Take good care of them. You want them to love you? That's just not for you to decide. The only thing you can do is make it easier for them to love you. But before you can do that, they would already have to want to love you themselves.

Fortunately, most people want to love others. Most people just make it hard for them to do that because of how inconsistent and easily distracted we are.




For that we would need a massive cultural shift. We would have to go from a consumer mindset to the complete opposite where we are happy with what we have. You could marry the woman of your dreams. But reality will shatter that dream when you meet a woman who is more beautiful and smarter than the one you married. And with the current culture, you are basically guaranteed to meet such a woman. And the same applies if you're a woman who married the man of your dreams. Why? Because we discourage modesty. And so you have people constantly advertising themselves to the world. I suspect this rampant culture of self advertising is what pissed you off in the first place.



No. It wasn't wrong. Your parents did good to care for you and love you. And it's good that from that you took the lesson that you should care for and love the people in your life. Just don't be mistaken into thinking that it means they will love you back. It only means that you are the one who will end up loving them even more than you already do.

But the question is. What about you? You're prepared to love others and that's great. But shouldn't you love yourself to? And if you love yourself, should you expose yourself to someone who will abuse you? Or someone who gives you zero confidence?

I understand that if you are someone who has an abundance of self confidence, then it's not as important to have a partner who is competent, because you can make up for it yourself. But that's the exception rather than the rule.



The only standard worth judging anyone by is their behaviour. If I was thirsty and you had a bottle of water, would you share it with me? Would you give me the whole bottle instead? Would pretend you didn't have something to drink? Or would you tell me to get lost?

If you found my wallet and it had a lot of cash in it. Would you return it to me? Would you take some of the money? Or all of it?

If I let you borrow my car, would you return it? When you returned it, would it be in the same condition it was when I gave it to you? Would it be in a worse condition? Or would it be in an even better condition?



How is your relationship with your family and friends now?



It's fun in the same way a dream is fun. It only lasts until you wake up and find that your life is falling apart. And you are guaranteed to wake up, sooner or later. Whether you want to or not. And what follows is guilt, shame and heartbreak.



This subconscious arrogance is present within us all. Everyone is not better than you. They're just trying to convince you of that, the same way you're trying to convince everyone that you're better than them. We're all guilty of this. Even when we know better, we can still fall prey to it. It's the reason I insulted you. I felt self important. I justified it by reasoning with myself that I'm twice your age with probably twice the experience. And used that as an excuse to chastise you for not showing "proper" etiquette when talking to someone as "important" as me. I didn't even realise it until you asked me what you did to deserve being insulted lol.



Sometimes when we meet people who are similar enough to us, we stop seeing them, and start seeing a reflection of what we love most about ourselves, or what we hate most about our selves.



I'm glad it did.



I can't comment on whether there is or there isn't, but I can certainly relate to the feeling.. All I would say is, don't be too hard on yourself. Use the correct standard and continue to make sincere efforts. Make the wrongs you can make right, right. And seek forgiveness for the ones you can't. And never lose hope no matter how many times you find yourself making the wrong choices. As long as you're breathing, there's an opportunity to do better.

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Sorry for a late response, I had a busy week :/
I understand your point. It seems like it was exactly this that triggered the other guy.
I guess it makes sense, though my way of loving is deliberately becoming that person´s most important thing in the world. I said that my way of Loving is about giving people meaning. I see that a lot of people feel like they don´t have a purpose or that none needs them. One of the ways I want to make people feel appreciated is letting them know that I do need them. So basically, if people feel like none needs them, then they are free to come and do favours for me xD I am such a good person.
But see, your point here is kinda contradictory. You tell me to improve and ,,make it easier for people to love me" by doing so but then you tell me that people will actually not love me for the work I put into things but for the work that people put into me. So it´s not just as simple as to just work to ,,make it easier for people to love" us, right ? That effort could also go in vain in many cases. I guess I am trying to go for a more definite approach.

ENFPathetic said:

For that we would need a massive cultural shift. We would have to go from a consumer mindset to the complete opposite where we are happy with what we have. You could marry the woman of your dreams. But reality will shatter that dream when you meet a woman who is more beautiful and smarter than the one you married. And with the current culture, you are basically guaranteed to meet such a woman. And the same applies if you're a woman who married the man of your dreams. Why? Because we discourage modesty. And so you have people constantly advertising themselves to the world. I suspect this rampant culture of self advertising is what pissed you off in the first place.

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I will say it like this I never liked the idea of travelling. It seemed vein and just as you said, you could always find a better place, better people.

I will tell you this... I don´t want to travel to BIG, GOOD, IMPORTANT places. I want the place I live in to become BIG, GOOD and IMPORTANT. The kind of place where tourists from all over the world will want to visit, for it´s grandness and proufoundness.

And y´know what ? The same applies to people. I don´t want a hot, smart supermodel with a lot of money. I want my average girl nextdoor and work hard, so that one day she will be a hot supermodel with a lot of money. You get it ? I am not a traveller, I am a builder. I want to look at her strenght and at her Beauty and tell myself ,,Yeah, I contributed to this. We worked together to be what we are today." that´s my dream.

There will never be none better at being MY person.

Honestly, I can´t even imagine how would a better woman look like ? A Great personality is something you have to develop and looks never really mattered to me that much. Like as long as you´re not distractingly ugly there´s no problem xD When I was little I had a crush on an elderly woman, I kept opening doors for her saying ,,Ladies first !" and I think I even called her Beautiful.

Besides life is too short to be changing partners like that. Besides, I would only date someone smarter if I was as smart as them. One of the biggest problems with my crush was that I felt like she´s too smart for me. And it was not that I didn´t like that, I LOVE smart people but I always feel like I am not good enough and that I can´t always understand them as someone else could, so for her sake I would rather not date her. If you keep aiming higher and higher you will eventually start feeling sorry for keeping these rockstars around you. Besides, I could be always replaced, too. So as you said you should judge people based on intentions and actions more than anything.

ENFPathetic said:

The only standard worth judging anyone by is their behaviour. If I was thirsty and you had a bottle of water, would you share it with me? Would you give me the whole bottle instead? Would pretend you didn't have something to drink? Or would you tell me to get lost?

If you found my wallet and it had a lot of cash in it. Would you return it to me? Would you take some of the money? Or all of it?

If I let you borrow my car, would you return it? When you returned it, would it be in the same condition it was when I gave it to you? Would it be in a worse condition? Or would it be in an even better condition?

Click to expand...

The thing about me is, I find it way more easier to give up things than to actually fight for things. If you ask me to give you something at the expense of me having it, I will do it and then I will probably wallow in my misery. I guess I could say that I would probably die to do the right thing. But fight to do the right thing ? Ehh... no. No, not yet. There´s no reason to fight for anything. The only thing I ever felt like really fighting for was that INFP girl´s smile. But redpill has to ruin everything for me. I hate them. I hate this entire culture infact.

ENFPathetic said:

I suspect this rampant culture of self advertising is what pissed you off in the first place.

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What pissed me off... ?

I was told that women are straight up incapable of love and this was presented to be as a hard fact, will dump you if you cry in front of them, will dump you if someone better appears, incapable of gratitude, incapable of empathy towards men
All justified by evolutionary "science".
I am coming here from the pits of hell.

And who told me that ? An INFJ p*ick named Alexander Grace

I have actually made a video where I attempt to criticize this hell spawn. It´s more than an hour long and even though it´s of low quality, I hope it can make the difference and inspires hope within the victims of this a*shole´s manipulation and gaslighting. But the video says something along the lines of ,,The standard definition (SD) version of your video needs to finish processing before your video is public on YouTube" and there´s no time specified or anything so I don´t know what the f*ck am I supposed to do. But it´s like in my language and it´s phrased kinda differently, so it seems like I am supposed to somehow give my video a standard definition or something. I dunno if I should wait or find out how to do that. I think it was probably a bad idea to make a video but I can´t live knowing that there´s none who criticized this person yet. His comment section is full of hurt people, I have to try to save them.
Apparently an hour long video can take 4 hours to process but I don´t know what they mean by ,,process" are they referring to the same process which is happening here ? I´ll wait 4 hours and then I´ll start trying to make a SD version of the video myself or something. Umm... so I am reuploading it in a different resolution.
You can watch it but it´s long, slow and you´d probably die of embarrasment because I gave no effort into looking presentable. Why ? I dunno. There´s a lot of things I don´t know. But I know that these heartbroken people are desperate enough to watch it. I really count on that. Because if it was a video about anything else than this topic, I would have absolutely no chance of any success with this attitude.
Wait, you can´t actually watch it, I didn´t give you a link. Well it´s not uploaded yet, anyway.

ENFPathetic said:

But the question is. What about you? You're prepared to love others and that's great. But shouldn't you love yourself to? And if you love yourself, should you expose yourself to someone who will abuse you? Or someone who gives you zero confidence?

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She did give me confidence, it was thanks to her that I learned fluid English in a span of one year. I was top of my class in English thanks to her. Basically, everything... and I mean EVERYTHING that I did or said for the past several years is solely thanks to her. Even this post and everything I wrote in there, I managed to do and think of, only thanks to her. She introduced me to so many things, she gave me so much general knowledge about everything. Actually wait, she also introduced me to mbti. That´s what happens when you have a cold narcisst as a friend. She introduces you to everything without any judgement and doesn´t fear to challange all your values. So here I am, everything I do, everything I am saying, is thanks to her.
At the cost of my social life, friends, family relationships and healthy habits.
She completely modelled the way my life is now. She made me. And she isn´t that bad, she´s pretty Great... it´s just... sometimes she can be very exhausting to be around, I feel like all this is just a result of the combination of our personalities. After all, I did basically do this to myself. It´s not like she was keeping my hostage.
Y´know, what I Love about her is that she´s so non-judgmental. She may calls me stupid but she admits it´s wrong to do so, unlike everyone else. And that´s what counts.

ENFPathetic said:

How is your relationship with your family and friends now?

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Friends I have non except for my ex. I lost contact with them once I started dating her. Our romantic relationship kinda fell apart when we found out that she´s incapable of Love... or empathy. But still she´s the only person I talk to and hang out with. My family is kinda busy with their issues, for a long time I wasn´t talking to them at all. Now sometimes I am going for a talk with them. But yeah, I mostly just... don´t talk to anyone.

ENFPathetic said:

It's fun in the same way a dream is fun. It only lasts until you wake up and find that your life is falling apart. And you are guaranteed to wake up, sooner or later. Whether you want to or not. And what follows is guilt, shame and heartbreak.

Click to expand...

I am satisfied with what I got. At the beginning of the relationship I told myself, if nothing comes out of this I will at least know fluid English. Now, I am just a little too lost because I have no social skills. I am proud of her though, she´s getting very social and people really like her but the more people like her, the more she´s acting like a d*ck to me. But now that I´m thinking about it, she´s acting way less like a d*ck to me than she did before. Before it was so exhausting. I am so glad she finally fought friends and she doesn´t have to depend on me.

ENFPathetic said:

This subconscious arrogance is present within us all. Everyone is not better than you. They're just trying to convince you of that, the same way you're trying to convince everyone that you're better than them. We're all guilty of this. Even when we know better, we can still fall prey to it. It's the reason I insulted you. I felt self important. I justified it by reasoning with myself that I'm twice your age with probably twice the experience. And used that as an excuse to chastise you for not showing "proper" etiquette when talking to someone as "important" as me. I didn't even realise it until you asked me what you did to deserve being insulted lol.

Click to expand...

Hmm... I see. This all really seems somehow relevant to all this, hmm. Yeah, maybe they just don´t know better than me... but maybe they do. This is opening so many possibilities my head is starting to hurt. There is so many things to analyze. Maybe... this actually inspired me to look further into how this whole redpill thing works. If everyone is actually not right, then there must be a really complex reason for why they all believe it. And I´ll take it upon myself to analyze it. Huh... I want to solve this once and for all.

ENFPathetic said:

I can't comment on whether there is or there isn't, but I can certainly relate to the feeling.. All I would say is, don't be too hard on yourself. Use the correct standard and continue to make sincere efforts. Make the wrongs you can make right, right. And seek forgiveness for the ones you can't. And never lose hope no matter how many times you find yourself making the wrong choices. As long as you're breathing, there's an opportunity to do better.

Click to expand...

Oh I am way too forgiving towards myself. I only judge myself and people by intentions, if you intended or not intended to something... well as if happened. But yeah, sinciere efforts. I guess that´s what I´m going to do. Well, it´s hard when none tells you what to do. Everyone just kind of stopped caring and so did I. So if none cares, why should I care ? I am just gonna keep doing my own thing for as long as people won´t tell me what´s the right thing to do. World is really confusing when you don´t communicate with anyone. You are completely free, you are free to interpret anything as you want because none will ever care. You are allowed to feel whatever you want, you are allowed to cope however you want, you can do anything. I feel incredibely free, completely without rules. There is no right, there is no wrong. There is just me and how I feel. How can I know what is the right thing to do ? I feel like I know but it´s hard to believe it when I am constantly getting disrespected. Maybe I only tell myself that I am right because I see that people are hurt and struggling and I want to take advantage of that to push my agenda ?
And the worst part is, since there is no way I can know what is right and wrong. I have to keep myself to such humility. Because any action I could take could have catastrophic consequences.
Yeah, that´s why I acted inapropriate towards you. I just don´t know. I am completely clueless about everything. I just have no idea. Infact, my most commonly used phrases over my lifetime was ,,I don´t care." and ,,I don´t know." I was kind of a meme because of it. Cause it was my reaction to almost everything.
The reason why I am going against redpill is because I am tired of hopelessness. There are simply things I will never be content with. Good guys are not gonna help me, they are too busy hating each other, resenting each other. That´s why I´m against redpill, I don´t want to encourage hatered among each other. Life maybe suffering, but we have things like dentist for that, not relationships. If Love is not worth fighting for, then may the world burn. I am so tired... of people tolerating that guy.
Simply, if that p*ick is right. Then... I am giving up on dating entirely. Cause like sure... hypergami... but... Women are incapable of Love ? No... that´s not the girls I fell in Love with.
And that´s not the girls that I want to Love. They simply aren´t.
I don´t know, maybe I don´t have a solution to anything but these guys are already so in hell that there´s nothing I can do to make it worse. I want to see the entire redpill burn. And if this video won´t do, that won´t stop me from trying further.
Maybe I am just foolishly immature. Y´know, that f*cker made me hate women. Did I hate them because I am weak ? Or did I hate them because I am not a spineless b*tch ? Because if what he says about them is true, then... what kind of a person would not hate them ? And they approve of it as facts ? And none criticizes him for it ? Maybe women just aren´t for me.
But I know that women don´t deserve my hatered at all. It´s he who deserves it. So why can´t I bring it out of myself ? I just can´t hate him, I guess I just don´t care. Good, cold approach will be more effective. Why do I feel like this just won´t work ??

Dating... my problem is not with how to Love. My problem is why to Love. That´s what they should focus on as well. Yeah, with redpill being true... why even bother ? (I hate him so much)

I think dating could be Wonderful but this guy is ruining it for everyone.