Hello, I am an 18 year old guy with Absolutely no dating experience, however, I was deeply hurt by redpill and incels, so I decided I will write my retaliation over here. I know you guys probably aren´t unreasonable incels, so there´s no point in preaching to you. But I sort of wanna make sure I am not wrong. If not then... This is my antitode to the redpill desparity. And also, I just want to say my opinions and feelings about all the redpill content I accidentally consumed. This is my reaction to incels and redpill.
At the same time, I guess I wanna know if what I believe is wrong. So if I say something incorrect, people correct me. I also criticize a lot so, sorry, these are all just my subjective feelings.
Hello, I am quite a feminine guy, though my mom would disagree because I can get scarily disagreeable if someone is not respecting my boundries.
I am not like other guys and I mean that in the sense that I have no interest in having muscles, gaining money or status. I do not look up to masculinity and only see it as the means to an end.
Yet... There is a part of masculinity that I idealise. Or more like, I like musculinity just not the one portrayed everywhere. The only men I respect are my dad amd my older cousin, all of the other masculine people seem just like walking meatbags of insecurity. It´s hard to respect people like Jordan Peterson he lets everyone s*it on humanity´s self-worth and tell people stuff like
,,Female validation is fundemental."
Fundemental to what ? And that is a question. What is it fundemental to, Jordan ? To your ego ?
I believe that if you base your self-worth on external factors you will be inevitabely miserable and arrogant.
I also believe that muscles, money and status do not define a man´s worth but are rather the means to DEFEND what´s worth.
The other time, I had a crush on an introverted girl. Probably an INFP. And now, I am a very feminine guy and have a bit of a sub-conscious misandry, so it is purely my experience that I didn´t want to be Loved back by her. I did not care for her approval. But you know what I cared about ? I cared about her. I was worried sick that she´ll get hurt weather physically or psychicially and I suffered for days not knowing hot to cope with my feelings.
It felt like nothing will stop the suffering, not even if I started dating her. But then I remembered the first time I met her. She´s very introverted so she barely meets any new people and she heard about me from a friend of mine. And since my friend wanted her friends to become friends, she invited us to a meeting without telling us the other one would be there, because she knew that otherwise we would reject it.
So I recall walking into that café, my friend sitting there with the INFP girl and she looks at me in pure excitement and surprise. Well... turns out she was excited about meeting someone new.
After that... It DID get really awkward so nothing really came out of it but... It was an ISFP, INFP and an ENTP meeting so... It seemed we tolerated the awkwardness in a chill way. Well ,,nothing really came out of it" except for my completely irrational crush over someone I barely know, solely because of her f*cking attitude and also the memory of her "surprised pikatchu face"
So when I was suffering later on, for basically no reason as I always do, I remembered her excited face... And all the suffering went away. I was happy, I was satisfied. That face, that excitement... That´s what I want to live for.
I couldn´t give less f*cks about female validation because my self-worth is nearly unconditional. All I cared about was her. And heck... If she wants me to get muscles, money and cars... Then I´m happy to do it for her. But... I also know that she doesn´t want that. That´s not what would make her truly happy, I wanna give her more than that.
A wise man in a World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King trailer once said ,,But the truest victory, my son, is stirring the hearts of your people." and I agree, if you manage to excite her, to make her happy, that´s when you´re gonna become a true king to her. That´s what I believe.
Nowdays, people focus way too much on wanting to be Loved than actually Loving. And why ? Because they keep telling themselves over and over that they are unlovable. It started with men being unlovable no matter what, progressed to men being unlovable unless they get status. Stop telling yourself you´re unlovable.
Besides, why would I want to protect someone who thinks I am worthless at heart ? I have a difficulty respecting people like Jordan Peterson, they tell you to get better otherwise you´re not gonna be Loved... So really ? You take it that without your suit, career, money, intelligence... You are entirely worthless ? Pathetic.
It´s why I don´t look up to any men. Insecurity seethes from them. Except for my dad, my older cousin and... Handsome Jack.
Do women think I am worthless if I don´t have any muscles and status ? If so... To hell with them. But so far, this idea wasn´t confirmed.
You can´t Love someone who´d call You worthless if You were useless to them. It´s disgusting. ,,Get muscles, money and cars and she´ll Love You" Isn´t it common sense that that is just not the case. She´ll be with You cause at least unlike everyone else, You are sexually attractive... But all it takes is one slip and she´ll leave You... Because what have You ever done for HER other than try to earn her approval for Yourself ?
You are all playing pretend play. You preach strenght, muscles, redpill... Without understanding the nuances it takes to get there.
You are merely imitating your ancestors. And it shows.
And what am I ? A pussy... ? Now excuse my little rant here... None respects me, I feel like I am going through a cognitive deterioration and I can´t even put a sentence together real time. I am nothing but a stupid, dumb idiot who was always nothing but a burden.
Who am I to talk about this issue ? None respects me, everyone resents me and they don´t allow me to be around them. They gatekeep everything from me, they laugh and me and they mock me.
And yet, I feel like I am right. I don´t care about their insults and my self-worth remains the same. I have nothing to prove, no validation points to collect, no girls to exploit.
And what´s left is my Love and my will to do Good to protect it.
In a world where everyone believes in unconditional Love, the most valuable thing are other people. In a world where everyone believes in conditional Love, the most important thing is money, and everything else is just the means to an end.
Why do men supress their desire to do Good ? They bow their head and tell themselves ,,That´s right, I am a piece of garbage none wants so I have to make up for it with money and work so that I can compensate for my pahtetic existence." Why is that something I am supposed to be looking up to ?
Also, an important thing about being a Good guy. Goodness needs no validation, it is a self-sustaining force. You do Good because you believe it´s right. It means that no rejection will change your opinion of it. It speaks about your character. Sometimes, women are not interested in a Good guy. But you can´t expect a reward for being Good, being Good is the reward itself. My definition of Goodness is unconditional Love, for myself and everyone else. If you believe in unconditional Love, you will not fear rejection. You can just laugh it off. And I believe in second chances, if a girl rejects me it means that I am not good enough for her, yet. But even if she rejects me afterwards, it´s fine. After all, I Love her and I want to be with her to make her happy, if she knows that for some reason I wouldn´t be able to make her happy, why would I be forcing her to be in a relationship with me ? But... to be honest, I really am the type of guy who will look at my crush getting a boyfriend and go just like ,,Wow, I hope she´ll be happy." yeah... I am kinda... I am kind of a p*ssy in that regard, that´s not very attractive xD But yeah...
Now, I want to make something clear. I know there is a lot of women who are into redpill, too. Women who will look down on me and say that they would never date me unless I have all the things that I say are worthless. They will say ,,That´s just the way it is." And to that I say ,,That´s not the way it is, that´s the way you are." You want all that s*it for Yourself. You want a man that will be able to protect You, not me, I couldn´t care less. So if You think I am worthless without all that. First of all, You are selfish, second of all, we clearly do not share the same values and therefore I´d have no interest in dating you anyway.
I am not saying women would be bad people for rejecting me, I am just saying that you are rejecting me for selfish reasons. Don´t act like you´re a moral authority to me because I don´t fit your standards. You act like ,,Men should be blah blah blah" just because you´re a horny w*ore, okay ? Like, I am trying to say that muscles, money, status... If I have that, I have it for You. If You Love me for it, You only Love Yourself. And sure, if I get lonely, I can live in this one sided relationship just fine, always knowing that you will never really Love me but at least I can get someone I can Love, which sometimes is even a bigger win than being Loved. At the end of the day, I don´t care if I get rejected anymore, I know how to get girls and I know my self-worth. If you reject me... dude, you are no goddess. You are just a random hack that wants to get laid like everyone else does. Sure, maybe I did something wrong that made you reject me but... Who the f*ck cares ? Your p*sy is not the f*cking moral authority over here, hello ?
Or am I wrong. Is it necessary to objectify my feelings like that ? Maybe yeah, maybe Love and understanding is not enough to make one motivated to protect it, maybe you have to take everything away from them so that they get off of their butt and do something.
However, if someone tells ME to man up, I will break their jaw. If a woman tells me to man up, I will turn gay, transsexual and I´m gonna steal her husband and then tell HER to "woman up".
Once again, am I arrogant for thinking I deserve Love even though I am practically useless ? Or are you arrogant for thinking that you can outweight the value of life by materialistic bulls*it ?
In conclusion, none f*cks with me. I am way past tolerating everyone´s bulls*it. I know my worth and I have nothing to prove, it´s up to you to prove I am worthless... Good Luck, you´re gonna die trying. Probably of old age. Or the realisation of what it would imply if your values were logically consistent.
Are women supposed to take your self-worth away and slowly give it back as you do exactly what they want ? If so, I would rather be a woman than a man.
Why do you repress your feelings, guys ? Why do you devalue them ? You are men, therefore all or most of your feelings are exclusively masculine. Treat yourself and your feelings with respect. Everything you need to become a man is already in you.
Though, I am no "real man", I am just an 18 year old who can´t do anything. So, this post is open to criticism.
Chasing girls should be fun, not a desperate quest for self-worth.
I mean I feel like everything I said here is obvious, so why does everyone everywhere keep trying to disprove it ? Or is there something that I lack ? That I forgot ?
Glad you're thinking about it.
Interesting post. First half my reaction was ..." dont let that redpill stuff rot your brain. Best bet is to ignore they exist. I've attempted to do the same yet it's like the algorithm wants to shove it into my feed, needlessly. They're too far gone for reasoning, mostly. You're closer to the point than most of those guys. "
Then it got a tad weird and I got confuzled. This made me laugh though,
However, if someone tells ME to man up, I will break their jaw. If a woman tells me to man up, I will turn gay, transsexual and I´m gonna steal her husband and then tell HER to "woman up". "
I mean, it's been a while since I've been a spiteful teen but hey, it still is satisfying to read.
Okay so, where to start. Red-pillers are not seeking out "love." They wouldn't know what it looked like if it hit them in the face. That's in all likelihood is why they are what they are. What they are seeking is worth and they have none, not in any internal fountain self perpetuating form like you or I. You are gifted in that you can perceive that insecurity easily. A talent of Fi dominance I suppose. Where others in dire situations look up to the leaders of those movements for guidance. I find it somewhat an egregious exploitation of insecure young men. There's something sort of gross about that, but it's blind leading blind, echo chambering away in what seems the favorite format of shock value social media posts, and podcasts along side scantily clad women who are very not well spoken. Bonus, if they do some sort of sex work.
What they want outside of worth is, sexual access, control, and power. Again, not love. Again, because they have none. So they are attempting to supplant love for sex and control. Tale as old as time? Probably because at some point in their life they let bitter-ment get the better of them and resentment is all they have left with no sound or healthy view point to look out from into the world of others.
The kicker is they want to be seen as of worth by others, and sexually desired for procreation by the opposite sex without doing any work. Internal or external. They can barely love themselves. So when a stereotypically attractive man who is socially ascribed as successful and is surrounded by women on social media, tells them women are gold digging hoes so use them as they use you. They get a free mental pass that enables them to believe, yeah it's cuz women are toxic hoes, there's nothing wrong with me, look! that father like figure I idolize to compensate for my own lack of father figure said so...
With that said, excessive self worth that comes from no where and is based on nothing is not healthy. Ideally we all grow up with parents who instill our worth within us. (In something approximating unconditional form.) A healthy base. In practice, well... you get very dysfunctional little boys and girls looking for it in all the wrong places, going about it in all the wrong ways.
The other thing is in truity, if we're being blunt, love is conditional. If not, you would love every girl, not that one girl who lit up. Your love was conditional on her having a certain reaction to you or being otherwise adorable. Something that earned your affections. Maybe cute, dare I say. People have other 'ticks.'
And what you value for your reasons, as you said is not what other people will value in whatever moment they are in their lives or position they are in their mind's reasons. Call it selfish but what do you want? People to not go after what they want and like? What kind of dystopian shit show do you wanna run. Such is to be life. JP I actually don't see as particularly bad actor, but he certainly does talk to aggregate trends as seen on a larger social level and not to individuals. Which is a downfall in clarity. If he said "female validation is crucial" he meant it on an evolutionary, big picture scale of perpetuating the species. Unless you wanna rape them for conception. If women choose their partners, you'd want to be attractive to a woman. So he talks to what is attractive to women on the scale of broad trend. I.E ("provider, protector, ....) The usual culprits of positive masculine appeals. He's in the social sciences after all and that's what he studies.
On the other hand, you have something to offer. It's just not what others do. So, you'll have to find your own path. And that's OK. I don't exactly conform to women's general appeals. (nurturer, agreeable, needs a savior, ...)
Variety is the spice of life, no?
Last note, on withholding affections to influence behavior. It's a pretty common tact of people. It's not a strategy I like but it's pretty common out there in the world. We are as a human species pretty fragile, bound by evaluations of other of us. Maybe more leaning into an Fe thing but influencing others behaviors by your validation and withholding, and vice versa is quite a running socializing effort. This includes romantic relations.
Now I will say the downfall of Fi dominant position is you are too independent in your evaluations. Too separate from the tribe. And you don't feel yourself wrong all while complaining about the outcome. This is a tad narcissism. A result of perceived moral superiority and relative self absorption.
You mentioned that girl, that "...I also know that she doesn´t want that. That´s not what would make her truly happy, I wanna give her more than that." Do you actually know what that girl wants? Did you ever ask or get to know it? Or are you projecting a fantasy onto this girl of what you think she would want? This is not a gotcha. There's no wrong answer. Just something to ask yourself, if you haven't already. I mean if she's the average girl then she likely wants, security, kindness, financial ability...whatever. If she's not the average girl then maybe she is seeking what you're putting out and you're a perfect match.
The cars and yachts, abs are just (in and of themselves solely) gonna attract the same quality of the women that having big tits and flaunting them while posting videos of yourself in a g-string online is gonna attract of quality of men. Generally. Cheap, easy, looking to exploit. So the exploitative cycle will continue and those men will continue thinking women are gold diggers and those girls will continue thinking men are all the same, exploiters of women. Because that's what will swarm them. The primitive needs they're advertising themselves for. (filling of) And they'll both be right, in their bubble where they've facilitated and rolled out the red carpet for the dark part of the human psyche to settle in and arrive. And genuine relationships are too hard. Cheap and easy is best.
Why develop as a person when you can 'hack' it?
And this is quite a Te article but I will add it here just in case it is of value. I consider it a really good piece of writing and find excuses to share it when it might be relevant to a subject. 6 Harsh Truths That Will Make You a Better Person
Hope my attempted reply was of use.