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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(HUGE WALL OF TEXT)
Hey guys! My name's Jolly. I recently found out I was an ENTP. The description is really accurate. These past 2 years have been pretty tough. I'm 19 years old, in my second year of med school. I'm the youngest person in my class, and in the past year I've been going through a lot of changes. Most of my classmates are 22+, and I don't really feel competitive because I am constantly scoring high scores in most of my classes but I feel like I lack lot of character and life experience compared to my classmates. I want share some personal experience’s that I've had through out my life, but before I do that, I want to explain the settings and conditions of how I have lived the first 17 years of my life. I just want to let you know how these conditions led to me having an ENTP personality.

I come from Traditional Indian (Punjabi), but I was born in Canada. You could say I'm a coconut; brown on the outside, white on the inside. Now Punjabi males are always meant to be dominant, and allowed to do whatever they want growing up, but in my case it was a bit different. My dad was a business man and my mom was a teacher. After I was born, my family moved back to India. The first 3 years of my life I spent in India. I was the kid that would constantly run up to people and try speaking English even though all I was saying was gibberish. I also loved to scribble on paper and pretend to write English. When I was 1 1/2 years old my parents put me into an Indian British school. This school absolutely sucked, they would beat you, whip you for talking in class, for not doing your homework or not listening. I would go to school from 9am-2pm and then to my tutor 3pm-6. The tutor sucked hard, he would constantly drill the multiplication table into my head along with the rest of BEDMASS and spelling. It was really boring. As a child the only toys I got were legos, puzzles, and board games. I loved playing with legos. So as I child I grew up hating my dad. As it was his idea to send me to the tutor from 3-6pm. All I wanted to do was play with my friends that lived on my street. Even then my dad hated when I played with them as they were from the lowest class and we were from one of the upper classes. I favored my mom more as she would let me skip the tutor some days and let me play without telling my dad. My dad would always find out as my grandmother would snitch me out for bringing them into our villa. I would constantly argue with my dad, and tell him straight up I loved my mom more. This made him pretty angry. Now this is where there is huge blank in my memory. I was 4 years old and according to my parents I skipped the tutor without telling my mom or dad and went to go play with my friends on the street. I was kidnapped by this ex serial killer/rapist. He had been caught previously but let go from the lack of evidence. He would rape kids, then cut them up into pieces and throw them into the sewers. My mom went to pick me up early from my tutor and he told her, that I never showed up. My mom and dad went apeshit, eventually they had the whole police force searching for me. They eventually found me tied up naked with a rag in my mouth in a locked metal closet crying my eyes outs. The cops caught the guy. My dad paid off the cops a large sum of money. My dad and his friend would go everyday to the station and beat the living shit out of him for a month. This is where my memory returns for awhile: One instance is where I am sitting on the balcony counter and my mom is asking me strange questions and one memory which I'm really fond of; my mom is sitting down on a chair holding me in her arms and I remember seeing my dad entering the gate to our house and he shows me his hands and I see that they are all bloody and bruised up from beating up the serial killer. He says “I did this for you “I’m really confused. I guess it's a good thing that I don't remember the kidnapping. After this incident it took my parents about a year to get themselves together. Through out this year I never went to school or my tutor. I spent a lot of time with my cousins, and my mom. My memory here is pretty fuzzy.

They realized that it wasn't a good idea to live in India anymore. So we moved back to Canada. Not being in school for about a year has made my English pretty rusty. My mom is still scared of sending me to school. This one incident makes my mom extremely over protective for the next 17 years she doesn't trust anyone. She doesn't trust my teachers, my friends, my uncles and aunts. She made extremely strict rules. She would walk me to school and back. She would pick me up at lunch. Through out middle school I found it really tough, as she placed so many restrictions, not being able to go out to the movies, not being able to invite friends over to our place, not being able to go on long school trips (3+ days). Throughout grade & middle school my life sucked extremely, didn't have many friends, never got any valentines cards, and was extremely introverted, because of this I was bullied a lot. This bullying caused me focus on school more, so I became the biggest nerd in all my classes. I really started developing my passion for science. My life finally took a positive turn when I moved cities and to a new high school. I made most of my friends in Drama class and AP Science classes. In science class I made friends with all the smart kids and in Drama class made friends with all the cool kids. I ended up being the medium between the two for the rest of my high school years. I think this is where my ENTP personality developed the most. I took part in many high school plays, and I was got the role as the lead or lead comedian in the plays which developed a lot of my social skills. While at the same time I developed a lot of passion for science. My mom became more lenient as she saw me grow into a man's body. My dad saw that I had a great passion for science and he kept pushing me to challenge myself constantly, through science fairs and science projects at home. My mom's supported me in the back ground by always giving me confidence, which lead to my extravagant over-confidence, arrogance and cockiness in my own abilities. I remember taking my first class of grade 11 AP Biology and Chemistry. I became obsessed, I went home and read both the books inside and out over the course of the week. I memorized both the books by heart. I was one cocky fuck during class, would always argue with all my teachers, especially the sciences ones. I would almost always end up on every teacher’s bad side. I would always get in trouble in class for talking or pulling pranks on people (like putting kick me signs on their back). My first impression on teachers were horrible, they all thought I was stupid and amount to nothing. Then I would pretty much get 100% on the tests and there jaws would drop. It really took a long time for teachers to understand me and to like me. I remember throughout high school only two teachers instantaneously saw through me. Those teachers were my computer science and computer engineering teachers. Through out high school I fell in love with playing MMORPGS, RTS Games, reading a shit ton of science magazines, scientific studies and fantasy novels, and comedy. I realized that through out high school that I really wanted to be a doctor or biochemist. So eventually I took the extra mile and fast tracked a lot of high school, and took the prereq courses for med school. I found ways to sneak out my house and go drinking with friends, lying to my parents about studying at the library. I got better at manipulating my parents. Then I finally got into med school.

First year of med school, was one of the most life changing experiences for me. I never got the college experience. So this was a big jump from high school to grad school. The levels of maturity were totally different. I knew how to act in a professional manner, from acting in plays. So I fit in perfectly in (also the fact that I have a beard which makes look like I'm 25), but I saw one thing that shot at my ego that most. I might be book smarter then most people here, but I'm definitely not life smarter. I was still immature as fuck. I was really confused, and it was a big eye opener. I made it a goal to get mature in a year(This girl I liked told me she would never date me because I was too immature).One big thing I learned in developing my mature people skills is that everyone is different, and in order for them to like you, you have level up or down to there mindset. I started to live with people who were almost 10 years older then me. These people became my best friends and at the same time my role models. I remember learning how to game girls from one of my friends, learning how to fight from the other, and learning how to analyze people from another. Without them I would not be the same person I am today. I go out to bars now and sometimes when I'm drunk and I want to see a funny reaction I tell girls my real age and they freak out. I think eventually you hit a point where you start realizing that even people who are a lot more mature then you, have flaws. It's just with age that we learn how to better hide these flaws. Some people with age are able to fix these flaws, while some people just get better at masking them. It's funny how I respected a lot of people in my class. As I grow I notice more and more of their flaws. I try fixing a lot of mine. Second year, I moved out and I am living with some new people. I love my best friends, but sometimes living with them gets a bit hectic and complicated.

One flaw of mine that I need to fix is procrastination. Now the only reason this works for me is, that my short term memory is like a huge sponge and also the fact that I have semi-photographic memory. I can remember images and diagrams, but not words. It's really weird, when I close my eyes, and think of the word and an image of the word appears in the center. I have hard time remembering images of pages because they have words. Recently, I have realized that I have ability to memorize images of pages of writing. How? Recently I had an exam and I was reading a 300 page book. After I read the book and went to bed, I closed my eyes, and random images of the pages kept popping up. They were jumbled up, I could make out some words, sometimes the words for rearranged and the sentence made no sense. Pages were in mixed order. I think that if I put my mind to it this summer maybe I can master it. Anyways procrastination is really bad. I noticed I still get constantly high grades, but when I procrastinate I get a lot more stress. I noticed that I'm more motivated and less bored when I'm stressed out, but at the same time I'm going to be a doctor and stress is the route to all evil. I have a love or hate thing with stress. I love stress for school work, but I have hate it normally. SO GAY!

Another flaw that I'm working on is: understanding feelings and toning down my jackass-ness I have a hard time understanding feelers and in person mostly all the women in my class. Feelers get on my nerves so much. They make me want to rip my hair out. Do you guys have any advice to deal with my feeler friends? I hate having to listen to their problems, even though most of the time it's their fault for getting themselves into that situation.

Now I'm a bit of a jackass my self, but I know when to tone it down. When I'm around other assholes, my asshole/troll meter goes through the roof. It kind of becomes who can be the biggest asshole competition. I need to work on toning this down sometimes, as I've almost lost of couple of friendships this way.

How was it like you guys growing up? Do you think that there is some common occurring of events that shapes our personality? What do you guys think? What are some general self improvements for all ENTPS?
 

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Hey man! Welcome to PerC. Thanks for sharing your story…it was pretty interesting, and has lots of stuff to think about. One thing that came to mind is on the bit with image memory. In simplified terms, a person who's dyslexic in Chinese will not be in English, and vice versa. It has to do with the right brain being wired for visual associations, and the left brain for phonetics/sound associations; so if the right is weaker, a person will have a hard time correlating Chinese characters with their meaning, but if the left is weaker, a student will have a hard time correlating the letters and their sounds with the meanings of the words.

Normally, the general consensus is that a person is born with one type and keeps it throughout their life. At times, circumstances may cause an apparent change in letters, but the circumstances usually have a negative impact because the inherent preference is still there (whether or not it has an outlet). I think the extreme case would be trauma, because I know of a couple friends who have gone through a personality shift as a result of truly horrible experiences such as you described. But I know I can see the evidence of ENTPness way back to my earliest memories…like terrifying my parents in kindergarten when I convinced some friends we should take an hour-long shortcut through the park on the way home. Or arguing with a teacher that adding a green stone WOULD still be part of a pattern (just a new, different one). Or coming into class with my best friend without even realizing we were both covered in mud from the waist down after designing dirt slides that dropped off into a big pile of leaves. Or convincing my cousins I had taken tire swing lessons and then teaching them "tricks" I invented. Ahh, so many good times.
 

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Yeesh, you weren't kidding about it being a wall! But I did read the whole thing. First off, wow that's some story. It's pretty epic and I'm glad you're still alive. I can say I feel like I would react the same way your dad did - bloody hands and all, or I might just shoot them on sight. Anyway... I'm just going to try to answer your questions semi-briefly.

I'm turning 25 tomorrow, and I've changed a lot since 19. Mostly I've changed a lot since 22. Mostly I gained tons of compassion because I've found out my own weaknesses, and also because I found a feeler I really cared about and respected. This resulted in me going to therapy and spending time learning to understand myself. This is the best investment I've ever made in anything.

Feeler friends, feeler friends.... To deal with them, I keep in mind that they can't help their personality type, much the same way that I generally am out of touch with how I feel inside, until I sit down and spend a week or so figuring it out. I have an INFP girlfriend, and accepting her as she is (though not always without critique) is the only way I manage. Very strong feeling types still drive me nuts, especially when they're gullible. Mostly I avoid having to work with them, and find ways to communicate with them in effective ways. This generally means without evidence and with anecdotes for me or with questions that get them to say absurd things aloud.

People being mega-jerks makes me want to call them out, and I generally want to just resort to beating the crap out of them. I had a professor a few years ago who liked to not teach, but to make students guess until someone got it right. He was also smug as all hell. I wanted to beat the crap out of him most days. I don't really have a solution to it, except to acknowledge the (lame) fact that they have the power and I have to put up with them. Finding a way to get respect from them usually ends the majority of the issue, or at least reduces the severity of it.

As for common events:
I'm also curious about how common events can influence our personality types.
The ways I think I am similar to you:
-Played a lot with legos, the outdoors, technology(later), and other unstructured places where my imagination could go wild. (I also read a lot.
-Bullied endlessly in grade school. Once the other kids figured out ways I was different from them, I got endless shit from 5th grade to 8th grade. This led to an increased focus on school and increased interest in excelling at school. Until I was in my early teens, my parents were very restrictive of things I could do, who I could hang out with, tv/movies I could watch, etc. because of strict religion (which finally ended, luckily), and this made it harder to relate to the nimnards I went to school with.
-I then went on to honors International Baccalaureate classes and had the usual problems with stress and procrastinating.
-I too have a semi-photographic memory, and would be very interested if you have success improving yours.
-I always felt less life-smart and excessively more book-smart.

One of my parents developed a terminal disease (still hasn't killed him, but probably in the next 3-5 years) when I was 17 that incapacitated him. This led me to stop my honors classes after my 3rd/junior year and to start college immediately, but that has been a long and windy road. It has been mostly difficult because either the material is presented at a crawl (which I hate. It makes me want to procrastinate) or because I lose interest in one thing and move on to another obsession. Learning my true personality type (mistyped at 18 or 19) last spring helped me immensely with understanding myself and how to manage myself. I've settled on mathematics because it's something that has always dazzled and intrigued me, and because it is very flexible and adaptable as a degree.

That's all I can think of right now. I'm kind of tired at the moment though, and would like to interact more.

I have a question for you though - what is BEDMASS?
 

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How the hell did you get into med school without getting an undergrad?

My problems: procrastination, not being my full ENTP self at times (this'll disappear in time), and I apparently don't have the ability to tell when people are angry at me. Not my fault they're just a load of passive-aggressive bitches :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My bad for not clarifying BEDMASS. It just a simple math rule to solve equations in a certain order. Brackets, Exponent, Division, +/- and solve. One of my new roomates is a feeler type. I saw him piss drunk last night, he was so crazy and destructive. He went around sprinting in the flat, yelling and being angry one moment and then really nice the next moment. He sort of reminded me of person that was bipolar.

@SayMoi I really reflected on this, and I'm curious how do my fellow ENTP friends think inside there head?

I usually think inside my head by talking to myself as if I were explaining a situation to someone. As I explain the situation to myself it becomes a lot more clearer and new ideas or connecting ideas just randomly appear out of no where (I'm guessing this is my intuition at work). I then try to rationalize these idea's to the knowledge I have, this is sort of an innate way too see if my bullshit meter triggers. If it triggers, I then dump the thought. If it doesn't trigger I keep it and try to apply it. If I can't apply it in my head, I then look for external sources to apply it. Usually applying it external sources confirms if it works or it doesn't. Also memory for me works like this: If for example I want to memorize an image, I close my eyes say a keyword and I just see the image. If i want to memorise a sentence or words. I repeat the words by saying them in my head.

I was talking to one of my ENTJ friends and he said he usually thinks by dividing things up in category's for example: if I told him to think about an apple, he would think of a apple, then different kinds of apples, then the tree, and then he branch's off from there.

I asked one of my friend who happens to be very artistic, how he memorizes sentences, he said he memorizes them by imagining himself write the sentence on a imaginary board, and then kind of saving that imagination. Really cool stuff.

I guess I always believed in the saying "An image is worth a thousand words", but I failed to realize that words can also be seen as an image. Just a really tiny image. I'm going to try this from now on, by visualizing words then sentences and then paragraphs in my head. Maybe that will help me building a better memory concerning memorizing whole paragraphs of writing.

Not all Med Schools require an undergrad. Some just require a good MCAT scores and good premed course scores, hospital experience and lot of good letters of recommendations . In fact a lot of european schools offer premed+med school for students after high school. Premed is sort of like undergrad, but you finish it in 2 years instead of 4.
 

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That voice is called an internal monologue. What's interesting is that some people read through their internal monologue, others do not. My boyfriend is a visual reader (I still don't get how that works), but I can only read as fast as I can talk (which admittedly is decently fast) because I hear every sound from the words in my head.

I remember the process of forming my internal monologue—It was very confusing and stressful for a while, I honestly couldn't figure out why I was constantly referring to myself in the third person, like I was writing a novel about myself or something. My monologue doesn't normally refer to me anymore, but when it does it can take any pronoun (I, you, she, we). When it takes "I", it's normally contextualized in telling an imagined person, like a friend or the most relevant person involved. Often that person responds. :) When I'm just pondering thingses, I still have a voice constantly jabbering about it, but the voice takes shortcuts to go faster. So the voice might say, "With kids"—which would indicate all my sentiments towards having a family and how many kids and all my doubts and fears and hopes associated—"I want to do that"—which would indicate whatever idea I just had, and all the reasons it struck me as a useful idea. I can follow up those triggers at any point towards what they mean, but the system is strong enough that I don't need to. Like variables in a math formula or a Java program.

I do have a "mind's eye". It's just not very heavily used; it supplements when necessary, especially when I have many direct and pointed adjectives to help, but i think the reason i've never been any good at art is I can't visualize well enough.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah, same here I do that too.I talk faster in my head then I do in real life. My minds eye isn't extremely strong. As images stay for only a couple of seconds, before I have to recall them again. Could you please elaborate on visual reading?
 

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I normally wouldn't read through a wall of text, but your story was compelling enough that I did, and I'm happier for it, as you seem to be a good guy. If I may, I hope for the interests of my understanding, and for other folks who would like to help, but want to cut to the quick, that I can summarize what you've said:

I'm an entp in med school, who had a very painful life in India, and am now struggling to learn how to adapt to college (since I lived a pretty sheltered life, not even going into undergrad). Currently, I'm coping by pretending to be mature, but I'm not really feeling it, and I think I'm in over my head. I seem to be having a particular problem with feelers,which brings out the jerk in me, and procrastination.

Let me start with the jerk part, as that will probably help you the most. Inside of you, there's a fair chunk of extroverted feeling. It's what allows you to see how others are feeling about you. You want this feeling to be positive, but haven't quite figured out how to do it.

I recommend starting with "shutting down" your emotions and just observe the people around you that you need to interact with. Just be curious about them for a while, ask a question here and there about why they do stuff, and whenever something they do bugs you, distract yourself; pinch your arm, think about the first 100 prime numbers, whatever. Just don't think about what they've done, it inflames the emotions, and you'll have problems controlling what signals you send out. Feelers are just as predictable as thinkers. You just have to know what makes the particular person tick.

As to procrastination, well, sometimes as you noted, you work better with a little bit of worry. If you're putting out good product, you may want to consider going with what works.

As to childhood, we had a thread on that a little while ago, and most of the folks here have their problems, but nobody quite in your category. I think your rough edges are due to upbringing (as were mine), but if you keep on the road you seem to be on, you'll be fine within the decade (30 seems to be an entp magic number).
 

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That voice is called an internal monologue. What's interesting is that some people read through their internal monologue, others do not. My boyfriend is a visual reader (I still don't get how that works), but I can only read as fast as I can talk (which admittedly is decently fast) because I hear every sound from the words in my head.

I remember the process of forming my internal monologue—It was very confusing and stressful for a while, I honestly couldn't figure out why I was constantly referring to myself in the third person, like I was writing a novel about myself or something. My monologue doesn't normally refer to me anymore, but when it does it can take any pronoun (I, you, she, we). When it takes "I", it's normally contextualized in telling an imagined person, like a friend or the most relevant person involved. Often that person responds. :) When I'm just pondering thingses, I still have a voice constantly jabbering about it, but the voice takes shortcuts to go faster. So the voice might say, "With kids"—which would indicate all my sentiments towards having a family and how many kids and all my doubts and fears and hopes associated—"I want to do that"—which would indicate whatever idea I just had, and all the reasons it struck me as a useful idea. I can follow up those triggers at any point towards what they mean, but the system is strong enough that I don't need to. Like variables in a math formula or a Java program.

I do have a "mind's eye". It's just not very heavily used; it supplements when necessary, especially when I have many direct and pointed adjectives to help, but i think the reason i've never been any good at art is I can't visualize well enough.
That was a great description of an internal monologue. Mines works almost the same way, except when I want to actually deal with it directly, in which case it generally takes on someone's face.
 

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Woah, that's cool! Someone random, or imagined, or relevant, or yourself, or whose face?
Somewhat embarrassingly, but it seems worthwhile to admit: It was whatever girl I was crushing on at the time, and didn't have the nerve/ability to approach. I guess this allowed me to feel I was talking with someone who made me comfortable, or at least someone who I would have to listen to (because it wasn't always telling me what I wanted to hear). The conversations weren't ever romantic; I'd even go so far as to say they resemble my internet voice more than my real life one.


I think a lot of my best blog posts and ideas came out of those conversations. In fact I transcribed the last one on my old LJ almost word for word, which is probably the only one to have some romantic component to it (saying goodbye to my old self in some way). I should also mention, that since I've gotten married, I haven't really had to do it since my INTJ wife is better to bounce ideas and conversations off of, so it was obviously a coping mechanism of sorts.
 
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