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Discussion Starter #1
This crossed my mind earlier today. I'm wondering if any of you exhibit one or more of these qualities from time to time. I'm not suggesting ENTJs have a predisposition to NPD, nor am I asking you if you exhibit these qualities to the levels of severity described in the DSM.

My friends and I were taking this personality disorder test for fun as a joke to see which personality disorder we're most closely attributable to. Both my other ENTJ friend and I were the only ones who scored highest on Narcissistic Personality disorder, and I personally also had a high score in Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.

I understand this was just a joke test, though I started thinking about it and it almost seems a bit more accurate than joke results should be. Though maybe I'm over-analyzing and blowing things out of proportion.

And I'm sorry in advance for the length of this post.

1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

4. Requires excessive admiration

5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

8. Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her

9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
I've noted I do take great pride in my achievements. I don't expect to be recognized for them, though at times I do use them as a way to differentiate between who's more competent and who's less. Also, I like to think my achievements are more so for myself, to feel accomplished. I'm not sure if this is a trait many of you share with me, or if I should seek help for it.

I wouldn't consider myself preoccupied with fantasies, but I do have an ideal future I like to think I'm working towards mostly which includes stability and peace -- but also a certain sense of recognition for my achievements.

In terms of feeling special or unique, I don't hold myself to an esoteric level on this scale, though I do often associate myself with people I consider to be more intelligent and/or competent in whichever fields I'm involved in. I'm not sure if this is characteristic of narcissism or if I'm just being normal.

Admiration is always nice. Again, it's hard to tell if this is inferior Fi, or if it's a true characteristic of narcissism.

Number 5,6; I don't except special treatment from anyone, this is one point I'm firm on. Nor do I achieve success at the expense of others.

In terms of empathy, this was one of the points which hit me in the stomach most. I respect most people but often times I have a very hard time understanding/dealing with people I think are overly-emotional, and I quickly lose my patience/willingness to deal with them.

Number 8,9; sometimes, and sometimes. Though I think this is human.

The total count is 7 out of 9 characteristics, and according to the DSM you are legally diagnosed as someone with NPD if you exhibit 5 or more.

What do you think? Can you identify with any of my points? Am I looking too far into this?
 

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1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements). False

2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. False

3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions). False

4. Requires excessive admiration. True, but I reciprocate ;)

5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations. False

6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends. False; key point being 'takes advantage', I'm usually honest about how someone can help me, and once again reciprocation is good gesture.

7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others. False, but I don't put them on a pedestal.

8. Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her. False. True. I think young people do tend to hold me in an idealized light and it's not like attempted humility can help prove otherwise.

9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. True, along with good humour, I consider it a good way to lead into motivating conversation and compliments.
 

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fire breathing dragon
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You don't seem narcissistic to me.

I ran into a narcissistic INTJ on another website I used to frequent and his posts were dripping in narcissism. He was the only one that didn't realize it. He had a huge God complex and thought that because his IQ was in the genius range, that it qualified him to have be an expert on all sorts of topics simply because he studied them in his spare time.

I've also ran into an narcissistic ENTJ on another ENTJ forum site and the post was disgusting. So generally its hard for narcissists to hide it because, from what I've observed, when they turn to the internet, its to get their fill of admiration and ego stroking that they aren't getting from their immediate environment.

I don't think any of the ENTJs here do it. I've seen some cockiness, but thats about it.
 

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Narcissists are easy to spot. They are really only interested in themselves, but this is also accompanied by a deep hatred of their true self. They do everything they can to hide that from others, and when they are at risk of being exposed, or they are called out, they blow up, guilt, shame, gaslight, back pedal, etc. they can't take criticism at all, not even constructive. They also always have to be right and must have the last word. They wont admit fault unless in doing so, it benefits them. They are highly manipulative and use people like objects. They have extremely fragile egos deep down that they must protect at all costs.

Unfortunately, I have learned this through experience. Narcissists are not fun to have in your life and the best way to get rid of them, is to let them know you see them, clear.as.day.

Remember, we all have a certain level of narcissism in us; it just reaches unhealthy levels and full blown NPD in some people.

Eta: Also, children and teens are naturally highly narcissitic. Most grow out of it and balance out.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
You don't seem narcissistic to me.

I ran into a narcissistic INTJ on another website I used to frequent and his posts were dripping in narcissism. He was the only one that didn't realize it. He had a huge God complex and thought that because his IQ was in the genius range, that it qualified him to have be an expert on all sorts of topics simply because he studied them in his spare time.

I've also ran into an narcissistic ENTJ on another ENTJ forum site and the post was disgusting. So generally its hard for narcissists to hide it because, from what I've observed, when they turn to the internet, its to get their fill of admiration and ego stroking that they aren't getting from their immediate environment.

I don't think any of the ENTJs here do it. I've seen some cockiness, but thats about it.
So you're saying I'm a good person? Perhaps a superb example of a human being? haha ;p

Sometimes I find myself indulging in the pleasures of subtle reassurances, though I guess a true narcissist wouldn't be satiated.

I'm interested if you think you embody any of these characteristics to a certain extent?
 

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A true narcissist would be too proud to even put this out there, and they rarely recognize they are narcissists :)

Work on being ok with, and liking who you are. That will help you with the needing reassurance :) Oh and narcissists aren't typically looking for reassurance, they are looking for people to feed their ego and give them their fix of narcisstic supply.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
A true narcissist would be too proud to even put this out there, and they rarely recognize they are narcissists :)

Work on being ok with, and liking who you are. That will help you with the needing reassurance :) Oh and narcissists aren't typically looking for reassurance, they are looking for people to feed their ego and give them their fix of narcisstic supply.
Needing reassurance. -.-
 

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fire breathing dragon
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I'm interested if you think you embody any of these characteristics to a certain extent?
I have my gun totin', look how great I am moments like the next person. But it doesn't last very long. Also, I never brag about my achievements. NEVER! Why? Not because I'm super humble or anything, but because I look so much cooler if I only bring it up when necessary.

It goes something like this:

Person: Man I need someone who knows how to do X.

Chipps: **Walks over and does X**

Person: I had no idea you knew how to do X.

Chipps: **Short explanation for how I learned it**

Person: **Mind just a little bit blown**

Chipps: **Cool points acquired**

I'm not into the braggarts. Its a bit tacky, though Im not saying that you do it, Lol.

Im sure we all have some of the NPD traits. I am confident, but I hate being in the spotlight for my achievements and I don't demand to be treated any better than I deserve.
 

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I'm along the same lines. On the scale of selflessness to narcissism, I'm definitely leaning towards narcissist, but not to unhealthy levels.

1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
I'm proud of my work. And while I can fluff things up a bit and make things sound good, its truthful and I know my limitations; never deceitful. I also never expect to be recongized as a superior until I prove it.

2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
I have reasonable goals of success and power.

3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
I believe nobody including myself is special. "You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile" (Fight Club)

4. Requires excessive admiration
Definitely no. While I like acknowledgement, I don't like unnessary levels of admiration.

5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
No. Grew up poor. I have low standards of what I'm entitled to.

6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
While I like to compete with others, I want to win fairly. I wouldn't throw people under the bus for my own gain.

7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
I have empathy. The problem is that I assume everyone is like me and capable of resolving issues like I do. So sometimes I don't take their feelings seriously.

8. Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
I'm competitive so I can get reasonably envious of others. I don't act on it. Its fuel for motivation. For example, is it just me or was anyone else a bit bummed when they hear stuff like the founders of Instagram got a $1 billion buyout from Facebook? Not in the field, can't do anything about it, but it does make me envious that I didn't think of it first. No care if people are envious of me.

9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
To a small (reasonable) degree.
 

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I'm along the same lines. On the scale of selflessness to narcissism, I'm definitely leaning towards narcissist, but not to unhealthy levels.



I'm proud of my work. And while I can fluff things up a bit and make things sound good, its truthful and I know my limitations; never deceitful. I also never expect to be recongized as a superior until I prove it.



I have reasonable goals of success and power.



I believe nobody including myself is special. "You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile" (Fight Club)



Definitely no. While I like acknowledgement, I don't like unnessary levels of admiration.



No. Grew up poor. I have low standards of what I'm entitled to.



While I like to compete with others, I want to win fairly. I wouldn't throw people under the bus for my own gain.



I have empathy. The problem is that I assume everyone is like me and capable of resolving issues like I do. So sometimes I don't take their feelings seriously.



I'm competitive so I can get reasonably envious of others. I don't act on it. Its fuel for motivation. For example, is it just me or was anyone else a bit bummed when they hear stuff like the founders of Instagram got a $1 billion buyout from Facebook? Not in the field, can't do anything about it, but it does make me envious that I didn't think of it first. No care if people are envious of me.



To a small (reasonable) degree.
This doesn't sound like narcissism to me at all...this sounds like healthy confidence :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm competitive so I can get reasonably envious of others. I don't act on it. Its fuel for motivation. For example, is it just me or was anyone else a bit bummed when they hear stuff like the founders of Instagram got a $1 billion buyout from Facebook? Not in the field, can't do anything about it, but it does make me envious that I didn't think of it first. No care if people are envious of me.
This is something I experience a lot. I was actually just talking to someone about this exact example yesterday, lol. Such a simple idea, it's a shame.
 

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Ah! Found it! It was pinching on the back of my brain but I finally figured out what my intuitions were pointing to.

Unhealthy Levels [of a type 3]
Level 7: Fearing failure and humiliation, they can be exploitative and opportunistic, covetous of the success of others, and willing to do "whatever it takes" to preserve the illusion of their superiority.

Level 8: Devious and deceptive so that their mistakes and wrongdoings will not be exposed. Untrustworthy, maliciously betraying or sabotaging people to triumph over them. Delusionally jealous of others

Level 9: Become vindictive, attempting to ruin others' happiness. Relentless, obsessive about destroying whatever reminds them of their own shortcomings and failures. Psychopathic, murder. Generally corresponds to the Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
I guess, the less healthy a type 3 is, the more narcissistic they become. Similarly, the less healthy a type 1 is, the more OCD they become. I'm split between the two which explains my worries perfectly. I'm in the middle levels for both (level 4) which explains a lot. Thanks for your help everyone!
 

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As many have said here I believe that narcissism lives in all of us. We all want to be the creators of a billion dollar website, don't we? I think this is natural though. It makes us bummed because its a "that's so simple why didn't I think of that" moment. A good way to ground those feelings though (I get them as well) is to realize that yes, it was a simple idea that was worth a fortune, but it seems simple because someone thought it up and did it, and in hind sight... it is simple (if this makes sense). It kind of reminds me of this analogy... What's the difference between a genius and a brilliant person... A genius is someone who derives or invents complex ideas and thoughts, and then teaches those ideas and thoughts to us. A brilliant person is someone who is able to understand and use them.

I have always felt that those that need to tout their fortunes, brilliance, whatever, is using that as a cover to a deep rooted insecurity. I like for people to think I'm a good person, or successful, but if I have to tell them, then what have I really accomplished?

I hope this makes sense to people and it doesn't come across as random, scattered thoughts.
 

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I am a ESTP and have NPD. I've known a few ENTJs, I don't tend to see the arrogant haughty behavior with you all, however the ENTJS that I've known tend to not do so well with constructive criticism.
 

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I do tend to be terribly narcissistic, in order to compensate for severely low self esteem. It does have to do with my upbringing - only child, constantly praised by my parents and teachers. I'm more a quiet narcissist, though - "the smug snake". I'm definitely not one to brag, but I'm good at reading emotions so I can manipulate easily. I tend to act very elitist, and that I am better than everyone to counteract feelings of low self worth. I get jealous of other people's achievements. While I can understand others' emotions, I usually don't care to take them into consideration.
 
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