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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I was wondering if you could give me some examples of how Ne and Si manifest in your thought processes, environment, behaviour, writing etc., if possible? I've been told I exhibit traits of INFPs, but I find Ne-Si especially difficult to understand.
 
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I've not really convinced that INFPs exemplify Si to any noticeable degree, but Ne is quite obvious for most.
I like to think of Ne-doms as people who always have something to say, no matter what you're talking about. Thoughts and associations just pop up and enable them to "think on their feet" in an intellectual or conversational manner. ENFPs especially seem to be gifted with an ability to just talk and might not even study for an exam because they'll figure out solutions and insights as they go along. They also exhibit humour due to all the connections they make, and are smiling and just talking for the fun of it without any goal - casual and free-spirited.
INFPs and INTPs, when they open up, will communicate in a quite similar manner by being casual and offering ideas. These ideas are rarely something that they want to pursue, like an ENP often does, but might serve as building blocks for whatever world-view the INP has.
 

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For me Ne is very funny and fun.

Someone will be talking to me and Something happens, let's just say theres a rock on the floor, I kick it and then jump to the Rolling Stones, and then start humming under my thumb or something.

When writing music it helps me just take a current scale pattern and approach the same pattern in so many different ways, from picking patterns, to notes played, to muting, there is no limit on what you can do on an instrument and that's why I love it.


Si if I remember correctly is a very unconscious thing.

Where others eat after their body is full such as appetizers and then deserts.

I eat only the dinner and get almost half way through before I'm full. I think that is one wztension of Si

Another I think is just past memories, someone who gave you a bad vibe but you still trusted screwed you and you innately trust your vibe. Not to say all people do this and learn from their past but I think we do so much more.

Such as nostalgic items, or the reasons why we have tons of pictures. It brings us back to that moment and makes us feel those feelings once again, I feel as if that is Si
 

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Hello, I was wondering if you could give me some examples of how Ne and Si manifest in your thought processes, environment, behaviour, writing etc., if possible? I've been told I exhibit traits of INFPs, but I find Ne-Si especially difficult to understand.
I think Si manifests itself within me by seeking facts and recalling specific past experiences. Then once this concrete data is brought into consciousness, Ne goes to work trying to apply this new information to existing ideas, philosophies, values, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That's quite interesting, thank you for your responses. I was wondering about Si in tertiary because I'd heard of it acting as a comfort function, with people re-reading books they liked when they were young, keeping familiar objects around them which evoke good feelings etc.
Would Ne come across as 'dense' if used in writing, as in the objective isn't clear because of too much information?
 

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That's quite interesting, thank you for your responses. I was wondering about Si in tertiary because I'd heard of it acting as a comfort function, with people re-reading books they liked when they were young, keeping familiar objects around them which evoke good feelings etc.
Would Ne come across as 'dense' if used in writing, as in the objective isn't clear because of too much information?
Rightly or wrongly I have associated Si with:
  1. strong long-term memory especially regarding things of strong liking/feeling (could be subject matter studied or personal experiences)
  2. a need for established boundaries to provide stability, safety, comfort, and diffuse anxiety or tension from within which one can engage the new or the old in new ways
  3. a mechanism working with Ne to connect new points to existing relationships/patterns by the record of what has been engaged previously
  4. the part that stands with Fi evaluations in face of new contexts in helping to resolve that the new context is/is not applicable for further consideration of the evaluation (right/wrong, likeable/unlikeable, beneficial/harming, good/bad)
I do enjoy rereading books and re-watching favorite movies and TV shows though not necessarily from my youth. I can attach sentimental feelings to some objects, but that is a lesser thing for me.

Regarding potential density in writing, assuming you aren't considering poetry or lyrics as the genre in mind, I offer for your consideration three people who have been offered as possible INFPs: Søren Kierkegaard, C.S. Lewis, and J.R.R. Tolkien. I tend to err towards circumlocution in my writings in attempting to be mindful that others might not connect to an idea through only one example and, thus, providing more. There is also for me an engagement with words, with their taste, feel, and texture, with flow, with getting caught in a current.

I also feel the need often to jump off on tangents when they seem important to the topic. [I even use footnotes in my posts on PerC...including one earlier today. :blushed:] This is especially true if I sense that the reader/listener is likely to misapply what I am sharing, to make a generality out of a specific, or to throw away exceptions simply because it is more streamlined and less cumbersome.
 

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Ne: Making weird analogies to things totally unrelated to each other. Puzzles. Thinking outside the box*

Si: Trivia, nostalgia.

Together Ne and Si make academic tests really easy to pass.

*interesting thing Michael Pierce said: Ne is thinking outside the box. Ni is thinking about the box.
 

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That's quite interesting, thank you for your responses. I was wondering about Si in tertiary because I'd heard of it acting as a comfort function, with people re-reading books they liked when they were young, keeping familiar objects around them which evoke good feelings etc.
Would Ne come across as 'dense' if used in writing, as in the objective isn't clear because of too much information?
Yes, this is exactly what Si does for me. Most of the time I dislike this function and don't even get along well with SJs (main users of Si). To me they are one of the most difficult people to get along with. But my Si brings me my own comfort zone - whether it manifests in re-reading old books, keeping some objects that remind me of people who were close to me and passed away (for instance I've got some of my grandmum's old books etc.) or bringing some sort of estetic value to my life.

I am not sure about the 'dense' question. Ne is not about information as much as about questioning. It's the "art of discussion" sort of thing. Of course, would manifest differently in different people.
 

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Would Ne come across as 'dense' if used in writing, as in the objective isn't clear because of too much information?
Oh yes. It's way too easy to go on tangents because Ne finds it hard to filter what actually is or isn't relevant to the topic. If it sees a connection between two objects, it's clearly relevant... regardless of whether anyone else sees that connection! XD

I guess I'm a bit nostalgic in that I do become very attached to things from my childhood and from good times in my life. I also do like to be comfortable - it's not about the concrete ambience per se, but more about how it affects my own experience. So I'm not necessarily impressed by expensive/trendy/luxurious things. If I happen to like something old and cheap and worn-out, it's far more precious to me than something which is in better condition, objectively speaking. (I don't know how much of this is mixed in with Fi btw.)

When it comes to taking in information, Si works hand-in-hand with Ne. Ne's making connections between things I'm observing externally, while Si is connecting it to my own past experiences. So I relate to strong Si users' way of remembering things (even though it's nowhere near as powerful). Like, when it comes to remembering choreography, it takes me a LONG time for it to stick in my mind. But often one bit will come back when I hear the associated bit of music. From there I might remember something else. And if I move to the position in the room I was in when I first learned it, I'll probably start inching closer to remembering even more.

I don't know if any of that helps. But that's my attempt at keeping it simple and to the point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you for the responses once again.

So, while Ne makes connections which are difficult to follow, Ni would skip sections, which in turn makes their thought process hard to follow?
I read that Ne aux is less unfocused/more able to filter than Ne dominant.
The individual likes to apply his insight to specific situations, relating them to the bigger picture. He also enjoys discussing idealized circumstances or what could be rather than what is. Consequently, he usually has high standards, even unreasonably so, for those around him.
He does not pursue ideas or new opportunities merely for their own sake, but for their application to specific questions and issues that he feels are important.
Extroverted intuition - Wikisocion

Would you agree with that?

The same site says this for Si tert, but I find it hard to follow.
The individual dislikes it when others emphasize the need for relaxation, enjoyment, and activities that are supposed to bring these about, because what they need internally is just the opposite — a need for action and resolve. Rather than spend their time trying to "listen to what their body is telling them," they need to have clear external demands that are able to overcome their sense of uncertainty and hesitation.
If you can make sense of that, I'd appreciate an explanation!
 
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The individual likes to apply his insight to specific situations, relating them to the bigger picture. He also enjoys discussing idealized circumstances or what could be rather than what is. Consequently, he usually has high standards, even unreasonably so, for those around him.
He does not pursue ideas or new opportunities merely for their own sake, but for their application to specific questions and issues that he feels are important.
I resonate with applying insights to specifics, idealized circumstances, and the what if considerations (esp. in considering the is vs. the ought). Yes, too, the having high standards especially of myself. [Don't confuse this with adopting high standards only for things that I tend to be able to adhere to. I am typically despondent because I can't meet those standards.]

Sometimes I do pursue ideas only for their own sake. Big case in point is that I am naturally inclined to natural science but have little interest in engineering and applied science. In that regard I'm all about the discovery, investigation, and learning for the sake of learning. That doesn't mean that if I perceive an application and connect with the idea that an application is important that I would not pursue it, but I'm more about contemplating, envisioning, and communicating than I am about doing.

The individual dislikes it when others emphasize the need for relaxation, enjoyment, and activities that are supposed to bring these about, because what they need internally is just the opposite — a need for action and resolve. Rather than spend their time trying to "listen to what their body is telling them," they need to have clear external demands that are able to overcome their sense of uncertainty and hesitation.
The first sentence sounds more like the stereotypical SJ application of Si, the picture of a workaholic, of someone who lives by work first, play later. This statement says to me that tert. Si makes one dislike leisure and downtime but makes one want to act. That doesn't describe me at all.

The second sentence perplexes me. It seems to be saying polar things. Let's break it down. For now eliminate the starting phrase (Rather...them,"). That leaves: they need to have clear external demands that are able to overcome their sense of uncertainty and hesitation. I'm understanding that clause as implying that tert. Si needs an external motivator devoid of nebulosity to effectively encourage external action. I relate to this. At times when things are left too open I might bog down in considering too many options (Ne) and won't begin doing anything.

So now going back to that lead phrase, which I believe is trying to describe that clause, I can make a better stab at it. The goal is that the person with tert. Si will begin acting. That happens when some definition, structure, and boundaries are imposed (can't be too constraining, though, lest Ne buck the system) to limit choices (internal) and, thereby, cause external engagement more promptly. What doesn't work is the comparative in the lead phrase. Don't let them listen to their bodies. That won't bring about action. It delays action or external engagement. It's too open-ended, so Ne will contentedly continue internal considerations.

That's my go at it. :blushed:
 

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Thank you for the responses once again.

So, while Ne makes connections which are difficult to follow, Ni would skip sections, which in turn makes their thought process hard to follow?
I read that Ne aux is less unfocused/more able to filter than Ne dominant.

Extroverted intuition - Wikisocion

Would you agree with that?

The same site says this for Si tert, but I find it hard to follow.

If you can make sense of that, I'd appreciate an explanation!
That's not actually Si tertiary (despite it confusingly looking like it in terms of the order it's presented in). That's describing Si as Ni-doms experience it. Si tertiary in MBTI is Si mobilizing in Socionics:

The individual has difficulty producing pleasurable sensory experiences for others and for himself, but likes to talk about pleasure, enjoyment, and relaxation, hoping that someone nearby will take the hint and take the lead.

The individual tends to periodically get wound up and uptight and is generally unable to resolve these sensations himself. He needs someone to help him relax and take an internal look at whether he actually needs or enjoys what he is doing, and what might be the source of the tension that has built up.
He can tend to extremes in this area, either depriving or indulging the senses to an unhealthy extent.

Socionics seems to describe people as having more positive attitudes towards their tertiary and inferior functions. They look more to me like functions we recognise the value of but get frustrated with because we're so awkward with them. I don't know if you've looked at dimensionality of functions at all? It's a little... confusing... but it could be worth looking into.

Socionics - the16types.info - Dimensionality of Functions
 

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So, while Ne makes connections which are difficult to follow, Ni would skip sections, which in turn makes their thought process hard to follow?
I read that Ne aux is less unfocused/more able to filter than Ne dominant.
I would agree with both these things.

Ne aux is held in check by a leading Ji function. In an INFP we're not going to follow a train of thought that Fi has already decided is rubbish.

I mostly agree with what Wikisocion says about Ne aux, but I actually do pursue ideas for their own sake at times. A lot of the stuff I say isn't actually that serious - I'm just throwing ideas around really - but sometimes people don't interpret it that way, so I dunno.

Si role is completely foreign to me, for obvious reasons (thanks for clearing that up @Pyroscope!). Si mobilising is a bit easier to understand. I guess I do worry about my ability to cook, decorate a place, act as host, etc, so I appreciate help in that area (which isn't exactly forthcoming when your partner has Si as a suggestive function). I wouldn't say I talk about those things in order to nudge someone into offering to help, though. I just like talking about it.

When I get stressed I do need someone to sit me down and walk me through things, but I'd always put that down to weaker Te wanting help with planning what actions to take to get me out of it. I'm generally pretty aware of how I feel about things internally... it's just trying to figure out what I'm prepared to do about it that might be difficult.

Not sure about unhealthy extremes. Maybe I indulge a little too much, but I don't think it's really extreme per se.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I resonate with applying insights to specifics, idealized circumstances, and the what if considerations (esp. in considering the is vs. the ought). Yes, too, the having high standards especially of myself. [Don't confuse this with adopting high standards only for things that I tend to be able to adhere to. I am typically despondent because I can't meet those standards.]

Sometimes I do pursue ideas only for their own sake. Big case in point is that I am naturally inclined to natural science but have little interest in engineering and applied science. In that regard I'm all about the discovery, investigation, and learning for the sake of learning. That doesn't mean that if I perceive an application and connect with the idea that an application is important that I would not pursue it, but I'm more about contemplating, envisioning, and communicating than I am about doing.


The first sentence sounds more like the stereotypical SJ application of Si, the picture of a workaholic, of someone who lives by work first, play later. This statement says to me that tert. Si makes one dislike leisure and downtime but makes one want to act. That doesn't describe me at all.

The second sentence perplexes me. It seems to be saying polar things. Let's break it down. For now eliminate the starting phrase (Rather...them,"). That leaves: they need to have clear external demands that are able to overcome their sense of uncertainty and hesitation. I'm understanding that clause as implying that tert. Si needs an external motivator devoid of nebulosity to effectively encourage external action. I relate to this. At times when things are left too open I might bog down in considering too many options (Ne) and won't begin doing anything.

So now going back to that lead phrase, which I believe is trying to describe that clause, I can make a better stab at it. The goal is that the person with tert. Si will begin acting. That happens when some definition, structure, and boundaries are imposed (can't be too constraining, though, lest Ne buck the system) to limit choices (internal) and, thereby, cause external engagement more promptly. What doesn't work is the comparative in the lead phrase. Don't let them listen to their bodies. That won't bring about action. It delays action or external engagement. It's too open-ended, so Ne will contentedly continue internal considerations.

That's my go at it. :blushed:
Thank you for the response. Do you often go after ideas for the sake of it, or are there conditions which make that more likely to be the case? I don't find that I pursue ideas which aren't useful (this seems like the wrong word for it, but my brain is tired) or won't contribute something... in a way, at least. For example, I don't enjoy thinking about the possibilities with religion, because it's been debated to death and I wouldn't use the ideas in, say, a story because I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough about it (I have a very basic knowledge).
Thank you very much for trying to explain and sorry I said it was the tert function when it wasn't - I'm still getting used to socionics formatting.

That's not actually Si tertiary (despite it confusingly looking like it in terms of the order it's presented in). That's describing Si as Ni-doms experience it. Si tertiary in MBTI is Si mobilizing in Socionics:

The individual has difficulty producing pleasurable sensory experiences for others and for himself, but likes to talk about pleasure, enjoyment, and relaxation, hoping that someone nearby will take the hint and take the lead.

The individual tends to periodically get wound up and uptight and is generally unable to resolve these sensations himself. He needs someone to help him relax and take an internal look at whether he actually needs or enjoys what he is doing, and what might be the source of the tension that has built up.
He can tend to extremes in this area, either depriving or indulging the senses to an unhealthy extent.

Socionics seems to describe people as having more positive attitudes towards their tertiary and inferior functions. They look more to me like functions we recognise the value of but get frustrated with because we're so awkward with them. I don't know if you've looked at dimensionality of functions at all? It's a little... confusing... but it could be worth looking into.

Socionics - the16types.info - Dimensionality of Functions
Thanks for the clarification. I should have checked first...

Hm, the not being aware of i.e. stress build-up sounds familiar. I often don't realise how stressed I am until something either triggers it or someone (usually my sister) tells me I'm acting stressed. I have a lot of 'noise' in my head, so maybe that's just distracting?

I would agree with both these things.

Ne aux is held in check by a leading Ji function. In an INFP we're not going to follow a train of thought that Fi has already decided is rubbish.

I mostly agree with what Wikisocion says about Ne aux, but I actually do pursue ideas for their own sake at times. A lot of the stuff I say isn't actually that serious - I'm just throwing ideas around really - but sometimes people don't interpret it that way, so I dunno.

Si role is completely foreign to me, for obvious reasons (thanks for clearing that up @Pyroscope!). Si mobilising is a bit easier to understand. I guess I do worry about my ability to cook, decorate a place, act as host, etc, so I appreciate help in that area (which isn't exactly forthcoming when your partner has Si as a suggestive function). I wouldn't say I talk about those things in order to nudge someone into offering to help, though. I just like talking about it.

When I get stressed I do need someone to sit me down and walk me through things, but I'd always put that down to weaker Te wanting help with planning what actions to take to get me out of it. I'm generally pretty aware of how I feel about things internally... it's just trying to figure out what I'm prepared to do about it that might be difficult.

Not sure about unhealthy extremes. Maybe I indulge a little too much, but I don't think it's really extreme per se.
I wonder if I am serious about things I say. Sometimes I'll be messing around i.e. me and my sister saw an upside-down 'men at work' sign, so I said they were working in the sky (obviously not serious) but I didn't pursue the idea beyond that and the idea of clouds being curtains to hide them messing up the airwaves. Apparently I'm often serious, though - or so family and close friends have told me (serious or intense).

Hm, I'm not too concerned about hosting etc. although my sister usually takes over in that area if people come over, so maybe it's just never really having to worry. I'm not sure about needing someone to walk things through with me, but it can help to have someone to discuss things with if I'm very stressed and feeling lost. I often double-check the quality of things with other people, because I don't value my opinion in areas I'm not that knowledgeable in.

Would you say when you're stressed you tend towards acting more like a negative xSTJ (very hard of self, workaholic tendencies etc.)?
 

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I wonder if I am serious about things I say. Sometimes I'll be messing around i.e. me and my sister saw an upside-down 'men at work' sign, so I said they were working in the sky (obviously not serious) but I didn't pursue the idea beyond that and the idea of clouds being curtains to hide them messing up the airwaves. Apparently I'm often serious, though - or so family and close friends have told me (serious or intense).
Yeah, that's kinda like what I meant. Other people think I'm more serious than I am. I guess because I can see inside my head pretty well, I don't take myself that seriously and I'm fully aware of how soft and childlike a lot of my thoughts and feelings are. I was pretty shocked when my ENTP boyfriend told me I was too serious and laughed at me claiming to have a sense of humour. Yet compared to him it's true, I do take things more seriously... maybe that's a simple difference between Ti and Fi though. Fi has that ethical/emotional side which keeps our irreverence in check a bit more.

My sense of humour is pretty dry though, which goes against the NF stereotype a bit. I guess the deadpan expression doesn't help convey that I'm actually joking. Can't help it though; it's either that or start laughing hysterically in the middle of the joke. I wish I was genuinely funny but I guess it's not meant to be. :D

Intense is another good adjective. I like to go deep with people.

In the case of seeing that upside-down "men at work" sign, that initial joke would have led me onto some tangent or other. Especially when I'm with other xNxP's. We egg each other on.

Hm, I'm not too concerned about hosting etc. although my sister usually takes over in that area if people come over, so maybe it's just never really having to worry.
Yeah, a lot of those socionics descriptions seem to be heavily based in gender roles. I don't especially enjoy playing host myself but I feel like it's something I need to do when we have company, especially when my partner's less interested than I am. Might be my mother's fault; she was an ESFJ and kind of neurotic about that sort of thing. I just commented on it because it was there.

I'm not sure about needing someone to walk things through with me, but it can help to have someone to discuss things with if I'm very stressed and feeling lost. I often double-check the quality of things with other people, because I don't value my opinion in areas I'm not that knowledgeable in.
I think that's quite Te, the whole "thinking out loud" thing. Fe does it too, but it's more for encouragement/reassurance that they're doing the right/acceptable thing. At least that's how I see it.

Would you say when you're stressed you tend towards acting more like a negative xSTJ (very hard of self, workaholic tendencies etc.)?
Oh my god yes. YES. Ask any of the INFP's who regularly post in the Stream of Consciousness topic. They've seen how incompetence and a bad attitude in group work turns me into a psychotic unfeeling Te-dom, hahahahaha! It's one of the main reasons I know I'm Fi-dom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yeah, that's kinda like what I meant. Other people think I'm more serious than I am. I guess because I can see inside my head pretty well, I don't take myself that seriously and I'm fully aware of how soft and childlike a lot of my thoughts and feelings are. I was pretty shocked when my ENTP boyfriend told me I was too serious and laughed at me claiming to have a sense of humour. Yet compared to him it's true, I do take things more seriously... maybe that's a simple difference between Ti and Fi though. Fi has that ethical/emotional side which keeps our irreverence in check a bit more.

My sense of humour is pretty dry though, which goes against the NF stereotype a bit. I guess the deadpan expression doesn't help convey that I'm actually joking. Can't help it though; it's either that or start laughing hysterically in the middle of the joke. I wish I was genuinely funny but I guess it's not meant to be. :D

Intense is another good adjective. I like to go deep with people.

In the case of seeing that upside-down "men at work" sign, that initial joke would have led me onto some tangent or other. Especially when I'm with other xNxP's. We egg each other on.


Yeah, a lot of those socionics descriptions seem to be heavily based in gender roles. I don't especially enjoy playing host myself but I feel like it's something I need to do when we have company, especially when my partner's less interested than I am. Might be my mother's fault; she was an ESFJ and kind of neurotic about that sort of thing. I just commented on it because it was there.


I think that's quite Te, the whole "thinking out loud" thing. Fe does it too, but it's more for encouragement/reassurance that they're doing the right/acceptable thing. At least that's how I see it.


Oh my god yes. YES. Ask any of the INFP's who regularly post in the Stream of Consciousness topic. They've seen how incompetence and a bad attitude in group work turns me into a psychotic unfeeling Te-dom, hahahahaha! It's one of the main reasons I know I'm Fi-dom.
Thanks for the response!

I actually have dry humour too, which threw me off a bit because it doesn't seem to fit the overall view of INFPs. I tell jokes sometimes which no one gets because I don't say it like it's a joke, or it's too convoluted and I have to explain why I find it funny. I do relate to sometimes laughing before getting to the 'punchline', which means I'm not very good at telling jokes overall. Although I seem to make people laugh without realising what I've said is funny (usually it's just an off-hand comment). I wonder if that's a lack of Fe?

Do you tend to find that you mostly do jokes like that with certain people and not with others? I noticed I rarely do with one friend, but do a lot with another.

I'm good with certain aspect of 'hosting', such as offering drinks (mostly - I do sometimes forget), but I'm not so good at creating an environment for guests (at least not to the extent of my older sister, who does tons of pre-planning and gets everything perfect). I agree there are a lot of stereotypical gender roles in the descriptions, probably because they're quite old. Maybe there should be a new version made...

Ah, so would Fe be more about asking others if a decision/action was right, rather than Te asking if something was correct? I wonder if it might be some Si-Te with 'was it done how it should have been?' or something.

Do you find with the negative outbursts of Te that it also works with Fi? I'll use an example, which was that recently I was in a group project with two classmates, one of whom was really disorganised and didn't prioritise our group presentation, so did things like not helping with the slide show and didn't get a script in until the last minute (which then needed editing). I ended up telling her exactly what she needed to do and when by, took control of her part of the project pretty much and tried to sort out the mess - which isn't very characteristic of me as I prepare to work in a group where we all go off and do our own thing then come back at the end with the work almost complete. However, along with the potentially Te outburst (still not sure if it was or not, as I'm unsure of my type between INTJ and INFP), I felt kind of bad for her and didn't really want to go to the teacher about it, even though I knew it was pretty much the only solution and was getting some pressure from the other group member to do so.
Does that sound like negative Te?
 
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I actually have dry humour too, which threw me off a bit because it doesn't seem to fit the overall view of INFPs. I tell jokes sometimes which no one gets because I don't say it like it's a joke, or it's too convoluted and I have to explain why I find it funny. I do relate to sometimes laughing before getting to the 'punchline', which means I'm not very good at telling jokes overall. Although I seem to make people laugh without realising what I've said is funny (usually it's just an off-hand comment). I wonder if that's a lack of Fe?
I think it's just one of those things which doesn't make it into the descriptions, probably because it doesn't really jive with the fluffy part, like you said. Obviously it's going to depend on the individuals involved but I'm certainly not the only Fi-dom I know who has a dry sense of humour. Might also be a bit of a cultural thing... my family (with the exception of my ISFP dad) doesn't get my humour at all, but I fit right in with my partner's family, who seem to be more T-heavy overall, both personally and with their national culture.

I don't know if that's lack of Fe but I do it too. I'm never sure whether it's a genuine "you're actually funny" or if I've said something stupid and they're mocking me. As a kid/teenager it would have been pretty much guaranteed that I was being mocked but people seem to like me better as an adult, so maybe I need to update the way I see myself a bit (easier said than done). :-/

Do you tend to find that you mostly do jokes like that with certain people and not with others? I noticed I rarely do with one friend, but do a lot with another.
Yeah, it really depends on the individual person. I don't really want to make them feel uncomfortable around me - depending on how I feel about them, it either interferes with my inner sense of calm (even if I don't like someone I don't want to fight with them), or it gets in the way of letting them expose their vulnerable parts to me (if I like them). As much as I like to joke around, being misunderstood is really upsetting and I want to avoid it if possible.

Ah, so would Fe be more about asking others if a decision/action was right, rather than Te asking if something was correct? I wonder if it might be some Si-Te with 'was it done how it should have been?' or something.
I think so. At least my mother's big on wanting reassurance that she's a good person and does the right thing. I don't need to be told I'm a good person; I already know I am. :p It's more the jumping from thinking to actually doing that I struggle with.

Do you find with the negative outbursts of Te that it also works with Fi? I'll use an example, which was that recently I was in a group project with two classmates, one of whom was really disorganised and didn't prioritise our group presentation, so did things like not helping with the slide show and didn't get a script in until the last minute (which then needed editing). I ended up telling her exactly what she needed to do and when by, took control of her part of the project pretty much and tried to sort out the mess - which isn't very characteristic of me as I prepare to work in a group where we all go off and do our own thing then come back at the end with the work almost complete. However, along with the potentially Te outburst (still not sure if it was or not, as I'm unsure of my type between INTJ and INFP), I felt kind of bad for her and didn't really want to go to the teacher about it, even though I knew it was pretty much the only solution and was getting some pressure from the other group member to do so.
Does that sound like negative Te?
YES. Whether it's "negative" I guess is up to one's perspective, but if it's uncharacteristic of you and you feel uncomfortable with it, I'd be leaning towards inferior more so than auxiliary. I mean sure my Ne can be a pain in the arse at times, but on the whole I think it endears me to people more than it turns them off. I can't say the same about my Te.

I'm assuming that other types would be capable of feeling bad for someone who doesn't really deserve it too. But I've noticed it a lot with INFP's... I guess the combination of Fi + Ne makes it feel a bit more personal, like we can actually feel what it would be like if someone did that to us and how unpleasant it would be, so it's harder to knowingly inflict that on someone else.

Although my reason for being reluctant to go to the teacher this semester was because I am naturally inclined to not ask for help, and I didn't know if it would achieve anything. I was already feeling powerless so if I had've gone to the teacher, only for them to be all, "hurrr that's for you to sort out, it's all part of working in a team," I would've probably felt worse. But I'm probably being given an opportunity to give feedback on how the group performed so I'm going to be brutally honest - normally I'd be more diplomatic but I've been pushed so far beyond my limits that I just don't care.

I hope that's helpful... I'm trying to explain what's driving my thought processes to give you a better idea of how Fi+Ne+Si+Te work together but I don't know how clear I'm being. Another sign of weak Te, btw. I am totally in awe of how strong Te can put things so simply and yet still get the message across. I think it's a bit less pronounced when partnered with strong Ni but it still seems like xNTJ's are less rambly than me. >_>
 
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That's quite interesting, thank you for your responses. I was wondering about Si in tertiary because I'd heard of it acting as a comfort function, with people re-reading books they liked when they were young, keeping familiar objects around them which evoke good feelings etc.
Would Ne come across as 'dense' if used in writing, as in the objective isn't clear because of too much information?

I'm not really a sentimental person. I don't relate to keeping objects that evoke good feelings...unless you count the 25gb of family photos and videos I have saved on my hard drive...lol. ok, maybe I do. But where I really relate to Si is in a sensitivity to physical sensation, or body awareness. I'm not paricularly aware of my surroundings (Se), but whhere it relates to the body, I have a low pain tolerance. I'm very in tune with how my body feels and my emotions are felt viscerally.

Ne, another user pointed out that thoughts and dialog are like puzzles. I very much agree with that.
 

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Thanks for the responses!

I think it's just one of those things which doesn't make it into the descriptions, probably because it doesn't really jive with the fluffy part, like you said. Obviously it's going to depend on the individuals involved but I'm certainly not the only Fi-dom I know who has a dry sense of humour. Might also be a bit of a cultural thing... my family (with the exception of my ISFP dad) doesn't get my humour at all, but I fit right in with my partner's family, who seem to be more T-heavy overall, both personally and with their national culture.

I don't know if that's lack of Fe but I do it too. I'm never sure whether it's a genuine "you're actually funny" or if I've said something stupid and they're mocking me. As a kid/teenager it would have been pretty much guaranteed that I was being mocked but people seem to like me better as an adult, so maybe I need to update the way I see myself a bit (easier said than done). :-/


Yeah, it really depends on the individual person. I don't really want to make them feel uncomfortable around me - depending on how I feel about them, it either interferes with my inner sense of calm (even if I don't like someone I don't want to fight with them), or it gets in the way of letting them expose their vulnerable parts to me (if I like them). As much as I like to joke around, being misunderstood is really upsetting and I want to avoid it if possible.


I think so. At least my mother's big on wanting reassurance that she's a good person and does the right thing. I don't need to be told I'm a good person; I already know I am. :p It's more the jumping from thinking to actually doing that I struggle with.


YES. Whether it's "negative" I guess is up to one's perspective, but if it's uncharacteristic of you and you feel uncomfortable with it, I'd be leaning towards inferior more so than auxiliary. I mean sure my Ne can be a pain in the arse at times, but on the whole I think it endears me to people more than it turns them off. I can't say the same about my Te.

I'm assuming that other types would be capable of feeling bad for someone who doesn't really deserve it too. But I've noticed it a lot with INFP's... I guess the combination of Fi + Ne makes it feel a bit more personal, like we can actually feel what it would be like if someone did that to us and how unpleasant it would be, so it's harder to knowingly inflict that on someone else.

Although my reason for being reluctant to go to the teacher this semester was because I am naturally inclined to not ask for help, and I didn't know if it would achieve anything. I was already feeling powerless so if I had've gone to the teacher, only for them to be all, "hurrr that's for you to sort out, it's all part of working in a team," I would've probably felt worse. But I'm probably being given an opportunity to give feedback on how the group performed so I'm going to be brutally honest - normally I'd be more diplomatic but I've been pushed so far beyond my limits that I just don't care.

I hope that's helpful... I'm trying to explain what's driving my thought processes to give you a better idea of how Fi+Ne+Si+Te work together but I don't know how clear I'm being. Another sign of weak Te, btw. I am totally in awe of how strong Te can put things so simply and yet still get the message across. I think it's a bit less pronounced when partnered with strong Ni but it still seems like xNTJ's are less rambly than me. >_>
Hm, maybe it is cultural. My parents are both from northern England, which tends towards dry or bantering humour.
I think most of the time people laugh at what I say very genuinely, like I've just told a joke or something. I interpreted it at mocking for a number of years though, especially in school.

Would you say it's being misunderstood which is the issue, or doing something you consider mean, or both?

I know a few people who seem to need external assurances that they're worthwhile or their actions are okay, whereas I've had the issue of not believing it when people tell me something I've done is worthwhile if I don't think it is. I don't feel reassured easily. Is that an Fi-Te thing?

Ah, okay. I find that I'm not comfortable being 'in charge', but I'm not bad at it. I can write out a rough plan for work within a couple of minutes most of the time, but I do prefer to let group members choose their roles etc.
I do have the issue with going to teachers too, purely because I think I should be able to resolve it on my own. I sort of expect myself to be able to do everything without much help - but I will ask if I need to.
I find examples very helpful and you explain yourself in a clear and detailed way, so don't worry. I do find I can be very succinct if I want to be, though for certain topics I go into a lot of depth and can wander. I'm mostly an under-writer, so while lots of people write lengthy posts or essays, I write shorter ones overall.

I'm not really a sentimental person. I don't relate to keeping objects that evoke good feelings...unless you count the 25gb of family photos and videos I have saved on my hard drive...lol. ok, maybe I do. But where I really relate to Si is in a sensitivity to physical sensation, or body awareness. I'm not paricularly aware of my surroundings (Se), but whhere it relates to the body, I have a low pain tolerance. I'm very in tune with how my body feels and my emotions are felt viscerally.

Ne, another user pointed out that thoughts and dialog are like puzzles. I very much agree with that.
That's interesting. I heard that Si was partially bodily awareness, but when lower down usually it was about negative things, or trying to make oneself more comfortable. I'm still not sure how it work in conjunction with the others as a tertiary, so if you could explain that further, I would be grateful. I actually have a very high pain tolerance as I can distance my mind from my body to an extent (going off into my mind etc.).
 
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