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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think Ne makes random connection that don't really have a meaning, and most of them are hard to be put into practical use. Si seems to be similar to Ne in the way that Si also makes connection when you see something, but to the past. What do you think?

Ni has/create meaning. How do you Ni-users feel about brainstorming? I think having Ni makes it more difficult to brainstorm because your brain discriminates ideas that's not meaningful to you, or you simply start out with the direction into looking for meaningful ideas/ideas useful for a project and your brain can't think of anything outside of it.
 

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I don't know that either Ne or Ni assign meaning. I think Ne has a broad focus, while Ni has a deep focus, but both are simply information gathering and sorting tools. I think they way they arrange information could lead one to a conclusion, Ni in particular since it tends to drive towards a singular point, but I don't think the N functions (or S functions) present that conclusion. I think it is the Judgment functions that assign meaning - though they do assign meaning to the information that the Perceiving functions have presented.

I would liken Si more to Ni, but with concrete data rather than patterns/implications. Si seems to gather and sort, including past/present differentiation, and to "accumulate" definitions and characterizations.
 

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Te - Thinking Discriminates / Ti - Thinking Includes
Ne - Understands in Analogies / Ni - Understands Absolutes
Se - Learns through Experiences / Si - Learns from Recollection (Comparative; similar to Ne)
Fe/Fi - Who in the fuck cares?
 

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I would think that meaning is the territory of an introverted function. Ne doesn't deal in meaning, however the judgment that accompanies it will have meaning, and it will be apparent in the ramblings of Ne.
 

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I think Ne makes random connection that don't really have a meaning, and most of them are hard to be put into practical use. Si seems to be similar to Ne in the way that Si also makes connection when you see something, but to the past. What do you think?

Ni has/create meaning. How do you Ni-users feel about brainstorming? I think having Ni makes it more difficult to brainstorm because your brain discriminates ideas that's not meaningful to you, or you simply start out with the direction into looking for meaningful ideas/ideas useful for a project and your brain can't think of anything outside of it.
I would say you don't understand Ne at all. Inventors, writers, philosophers, and entrepreneurs, are very often Ne users. Meaningless, random connections that are impractical? Unconventional, maybe. Making connections that other people cannot comprehend does not mean that they are of no practical use. These folks sure came up with some amazing things for being Ne users (there's also links to additional examples available).

Famous ENTPs

Leonardo da Vinci - ENTP
Benjamin Franklin - ENTP
Steve Wozniak - ENTP
Werner Heisenberg - ENTP
Richard Feynman - ENTP
Voltaire - ENTP

Famous ENFPs


Hunter S. Thompson - ENFP
Mark Twain - ENFP
Oscar Wilde - ENFP
Aldous Huxley - ENFP
Walt Disney - ENFP
Kurt Vonnegut - ENFP

Famous INTPs

Albert Einstein - INTP
Charles Darwin - INTP
Marie Curie - INTP
Rene Descartes - INTP
Paul Allen - INTP
Larry Page - INTP
Sergey Brin - INTP

Famous INFPs

William Shakespeare - INFP
J.R.R. Tolkien - INFP
C.S. Lewis - INFP
Edgar Allan Poe - INFP
Virginia Woolf - INFP
George Orwell - INFP
Albert Camus - INFP
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
@tanstaafl28
I don't mean to say that Ne-users never come up with anything great and meaningful. I think Ne is a great function. I guess I am saying that the very connection itself is not something with meaning, but a lot of time the person himself would immediately assign meaning to the connection. When I say "most of them are hard to be put into practical use" I am thinking that not everyone is able to put every single connection/idea they come up with into use or something else.

Then a lot of time, a piece of art (not one of every kind) is the result of a long process, especially the idea part. You might come up with 20 raw ideas at the beginning, and then you may discard/put aside 15 of them, and you start to refine, change, evolve, make, create, refine... The very end product would be just that one thing out of 50 different ideas and steps, big or small. You will not be able to create that one thing if you haven't gone through those 50 ideas and steps, but if you have 50 ideas at the beginning but you don't do anything about it, you will not create anything, either. I suppose the same would apply to a lot of other things.

In other words, you need to work hard and push yourself in order to create great things, which is not about type anymore.

Now that I think about it, poetry seem to be the most flexible form that suits Ne very well.
 

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@tanstaafl28
I don't mean to say that Ne-users never come up with anything great and meaningful. I think Ne is a great function. I guess I am saying that the very connection itself is not something with meaning, but a lot of time the person himself would immediately assign meaning to the connection. When I say "most of them are hard to be put into practical use" I am thinking that not everyone is able to put every single connection/idea they come up with into use or something else.

Then a lot of time, a piece of art (not one of every kind) is the result of a long process, especially the idea part. You might come up with 20 raw ideas at the beginning, and then you may discard/put aside 15 of them, and you start to refine, change, evolve, make, create, refine... The very end product would be just that one thing out of 50 different ideas and steps, big or small. You will not be able to create that one thing if you haven't gone through those 50 ideas and steps, but if you have 50 ideas at the beginning but you don't do anything about it, you will not create anything, either. I suppose the same would apply to a lot of other things.

In other words, you need to work hard and push yourself in order to create great things, which is not about type anymore.

Now that I think about it, poetry seem to be the most flexible form that suits Ne very well.
I wouldn't say Ne doesn't have meaning, I would say it creates it when it is not inherently there, where as Ni expands on already established meaning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Do any of the intuititions have meaning? Everything comes to Ni users in "Aha!".
But when you have that Aha, it's like you suddenly understand something, or the "meaning" of it.
 

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I think I know what you're getting at...

That's because Ne is what's called a Perceiving Function: Ne, Ni, Se, Si.

The purpose of Perceiving Functions are to simply collect information.

The Judging Functions: Fi, Fe, Ti, Te, are what actually applies meaning to the information from the Perceiving Functions.

I think the only reason you see Si or Ni as more "practical", is because a person with an Si or Ni Dom or Aux is also going to gave an extroverted judging function paired up with it, meaning that what they do with the introverted perceiving functions is going to be applied to the outside world in one way or another. But Si and Ni by themselves are also "impractical" in their own right.
 

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Do any functions have meaning?
What is meaning?
No. Bad dog.

I wouldn't say Ne doesn't have meaning, I would say it creates it when it is not inherently there, where as Ni expands on already established meaning.
Wait. That's basically what I was trying to get at here. Also, that feels reverse.

Ne <- Si; subjective sensual experience is used to create lessons and understandings. I think Ne, then, tries to interpret the narrative using their own personal experience. They understand the world as perceived through their lens and experience. Ne also has its base in Si--it creates and expands based on what it has gathered as known to be true.

Ni <- Se; objective sensual data is used to imbue a sense of understanding. I think the understanding is there, but they discover it. It's almost like collecting enough evidence to find the truth of the crime, yet at a very subconscious level that comes in the form of a very intense subjective knowing. Ni has its base in Se. It doesn't orient itself toward what is already experienced and known, like Ne types do. Rather, it originates. The factual sensational information (Se) is consistent, yet the subjective understanding (Ni) varys between people.
 

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I thinking meaning is in the realm of judgment. That is, something meaningful has some worth (feeling judgment), or the meaning of something is defined (thinking judgment).
 

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I think Ne makes random connection that don't really have a meaning, and most of them are hard to be put into practical use. Si seems to be similar to Ne in the way that Si also makes connection when you see something, but to the past. What do you think?
I'm Ne-dom. I think the "random connections" actually do have meaning, at least to me personally. When Ne really starts to develop, you get a sense of how everything really is connected, how everything now depends on everything that has come before, and you get a sense of how things are going to shape up simply because the cause-and-effect has been repeated ad infinitum throughout history. That sense of interconnection has always held some sort of inarticulable meaning to me, and I know how to navigate it.

Of course, you have to know what to do with those interconnections, and which ones really are important and which ones are just fluff, which is luckily why we were all given Ji. That's what helps us refine the tangled, tangled web.

Ni has/create meaning. How do you Ni-users feel about brainstorming? I think having Ni makes it more difficult to brainstorm because your brain discriminates ideas that's not meaningful to you, or you simply start out with the direction into looking for meaningful ideas/ideas useful for a project and your brain can't think of anything outside of it.
Obviously, Ni isn't part of my "process" overall, but speaking as an Ne-user, I will categorically state that I've long found brainstorming to be an utter waste of time. Everything you say here would also be applicable to me. I tend to have my imaginative bouts, know which idea to select, and run with it--again, Ji. I am adverse to interference from others, including the thought of someone spinning off my idea or anything further influencing it. Creative control man.
 

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No. Bad dog.



Wait. That's basically what I was trying to get at here. Also, that feels reverse.

Ne <- Si; subjective sensual experience is used to create lessons and understandings. I think Ne, then, tries to interpret the narrative using their own personal experience. They understand the world as perceived through their lens and experience. Ne also has its base in Si--it creates and expands based on what it has gathered as known to be true.

Ni <- Se; objective sensual data is used to imbue a sense of understanding. I think the understanding is there, but they discover it. It's almost like collecting enough evidence to find the truth of the crime, yet at a very subconscious level that comes in the form of a very intense subjective knowing. Ni has its base in Se. It doesn't orient itself toward what is already experienced and known, like Ne types do. Rather, it originates. The factual sensational information (Se) is consistent, yet the subjective understanding (Ni) varys between people.
yeah my process is mostly
"This poem has the color blue which correlates with sadness as well as peacefulness, and it talks about a pillow which is soft and white, much like a cloud, symbolizing change, and the pillow falling off of the bed therefore also symbolizes that the sadness will pass"
 

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@tanstaafl28
I don't mean to say that Ne-users never come up with anything great and meaningful. I think Ne is a great function. I guess I am saying that the very connection itself is not something with meaning, but a lot of time the person himself would immediately assign meaning to the connection. When I say "most of them are hard to be put into practical use" I am thinking that not everyone is able to put every single connection/idea they come up with into use or something else.

I was not offended by your statement, I simply think it lacks proper clarity. First of all, when it comes to Ne doms whose cognitive development has not yet reached full maturity, you are likely to find someone who has great difficulty expressing their ideas in any meaningful way because they haven't quite learned how to temper it with their other functions (in my case, having undiagnosed ADHD didn't help either). I suffered greatly from this growing up. I often had amazing ideas, but I lacked the necessary skills to convey these ideas to others in any meaningful way. What I needed was my Ti and Fe (maybe even a little Si?) to help me better organize my thoughts logically, and present them in a manner in which others would more easily understand. I was often afraid of losing the idea if I didn't try to get it "out there" quickly, and this often led me to talk too fast, sputtering, and making poor word choices. It is hard to take someone seriously when they aren't very good at making any sense. I think a lot of young Ne doms suffer for this. It took me years to get to a point where I could effectively communicate my ideas without sounding like a complete loon.

The connections we make often don't seem relevant at first, because for us, it's about brainstorming. We tend to work a problem from a "big picture" perspective, thus our ideas tend to be incomplete parts of a larger whole. Basically, what we do is spit out our ideas in "puzzle piece" format, which often requires further assembly and refinement before the whole picture becomes clear. Ne can be powerful collaboration tool, particularly in the early stages of a project. It is clear that there are other functions that are better suited to taking those ideas and running with them after that. There is always a point in which Ne becomes counterproductive to any process because it never really stops trying to refine, adapt, modify, and redesign. There's nothing we won't try to improve upon, given the chance.


Then a lot of time, a piece of art (not one of every kind) is the result of a long process, especially the idea part. You might come up with 20 raw ideas at the beginning, and then you may discard/put aside 15 of them, and you start to refine, change, evolve, make, create, refine... The very end product would be just that one thing out of 50 different ideas and steps, big or small. You will not be able to create that one thing if you haven't gone through those 50 ideas and steps, but if you have 50 ideas at the beginning but you don't do anything about it, you will not create anything, either. I suppose the same would apply to a lot of other things.
In truth, what I believe you are referring to here is the creative process in general, upon which Ne can play a crucial role. There's no sense of order to creativity; it is often messy, non-linear, convoluted, and seemingly wasteful of time and resources. For a lot of people, it feels like there should be a more straightforward method, but there isn't. We could fill a book with how each function approaches creativity. In my experience, it is just as I have explained above with Ne. We come up with our ideas in piecemeal fashion, which require further assembly and refinement.

In other words, you need to work hard and push yourself in order to create great things, which is not about type anymore.
That's just it. Sometimes my Ne comes up with something and it can seem absolutely effortless because I've essentially made all the necessary connections subconsciously. I don't even realize I've done it. I just "know" what to do. It is not entirely rare, but it is not something that happens every day. I've had people standing around trying to figure out what to do and I can cut right through the confusion and take correct action without thinking.

Now that I think about it, poetry seem to be the most flexible form that suits Ne very well.
I greatly enjoy playing with words, symbols, and feelings, in this way. Attempting to convey as much as I can with as few words as possible has been a passion of mine for some time. Nothing fills me with quite the same kind of joy as turning just the right phrase. My problem lately is that I'm just not finding my "zone," where it all flows out of me in a single torrent. I have been going through a tough time recently, and it has definitely thrown me off my game.
 

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perceiving functions take in/"see". judging functions organize. Acknowledgment of either involves meaning. But meaning is clearly subjective, what seems meaningless to you might be to someone else. How do you define it. From my perspective, every time someone becomes conscious of something, that something automatically have a meaning attached. Ne is conscious and obvious to those who use it because they note the effects that it causes, therefore it has meaning. I think the bridge which connects unaware to aware is meaning itself.
 
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