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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I experience Ne very often, so I'm an Ne dominant ENTP. Once in while, I'll have this massive rush of many facts and logic fitting together leading to an entire theory in a flash. Is this me experiencing Ni? If this is, do many Ne users experience Ni as well?
 
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Yeah. I call it pseudo-Ni. It's something that I only really started experiencing as I was older. The way I see it, we have inferior Si, Ne is always paired Si. And our Ne qualia impressions collect there, and eventually that dried husk of a cognitive function gets hydrated and starts 'pinging' at us.

Just a theory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah. I call it pseudo-Ni. It's something that I only really started experiencing as I was older. The way I see it, we have inferior Si, Ne is always paired Si. And our Ne qualia impressions collect there, and eventually that dried husk of a cognitive function gets hydrated and starts 'pinging' at us.

Just a theory.
I am experience this "Ni" quite often when I am on a water-only fast. I have been on ten 40-day water-only fasts and countless shorter fasts. I definitely know I am an Si user as well. Perhaps fasting affects cognitive functions? I am 57, so I guess I have been "older" for quite a while already.
 

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I am experience this "Ni" quite often when I am on a water-only fast. I have been on ten 40-day water-only fasts and countless shorter fasts. I definitely know I am an Si user as well. Perhaps fasting affects cognitive functions? I am 57, so I guess I have been "older" for quite a while already.
I'm 42, an ENFP, I probably started experiencing this stuff in my 30's. I've never fasted, but I've always been interested in altered states, for me especially states associated with various forms of mysticism. My "Ni" varies from something like you mentioned, a flash, filling in all the context to a degree. Also just flashes of insight or even maybe facts that come out of thin air, that tend to be right, and that I trust.
 

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Oh! I believe I know what this is. Thanks to your body reacting to your fasting, it's forcing you to use your usually inferior Si in combination with your Ne to make Ni.

Intuition and Sensing functions are on the same 'axis', so to get access to Ni, you have to combine the two functions you do have.

The way you describe it being 'history' and 'fact based' is the past focused Si, but then your Ne is kicking in and turning it into future focused Ni. This is how your body is learning to adapt and survive, because it thinks you are starving. Therefore, if you 'remember' where you can go for food, you can! Ni!

Neat!
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oh! I believe I know what this is. Thanks to your body reacting to your fasting, it's forcing you to use your usually inferior Si in combination with your Ne to make Ni.

Intuition and Sensing functions are on the same 'axis', so to get access to Ni, you have to combine the two functions you do have.

The way you describe it being 'history' and 'fact based' is the past focused Si, but then your Ne is kicking in and turning it into future focused Ni. This is how your body is learning to adapt and survive, because it thinks you are starving. Therefore, if you 'remember' where you can go for food, you can! Ni!

Neat!
In animal research, fasted mice solve mazes quicker. Pythagoras and other Greek thinkers would require their disciples to fast before attending classes. It might also have something to do with ketones feeding the brain rather than glucose. There are a lot of hormonal changes that happen during fasting. Sometimes the insight is future-focused. There is also a theory that during periods of stress an ENTP may behave like an INTJ. The nemesis function has some interesting properties as well.
 
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In animal research, fasted mice solve mazes quicker. Pythagoras and other Greek thinkers would require their disciples to fast before attending classes. It might also have something to do with ketones feeding the brain rather than glucose. There are a lot of hormonal changes that happen during fasting. Sometimes the insight is future-focused.
That's awesome. Proves that at the end of the day, we're just animals trying to survive.
 
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I experience Ne very often, so I'm an Ne dominant ENTP. Once in while, I'll have this massive rush of many facts and logic fitting together leading to an entire theory in a flash. Is this me experiencing Ni? If this is, do many Ne users experience Ni as well?
It could very well be. According to your stacking Ni should be a function that you are usually good at using but usually are disinterested in the results of. (For preference of your hero function which is inverse in orientation. Seeking all possibilities vs Seeking the singular most probable outcome)

Ne for me would be the same. I think when I am stressed or tired, or around certain people that bring it out of me. Maybe with age and altered physical state you are getting in the same experience.

If it feels like a theory among many, probably not Ni. It could be just having accumulated so much knowledge and experience that things are fitting smoothly now. If it feels like the essence of the truth. Might be Ni?
 

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Ne and NI are one function: intuition, the attitude is a separate trait that affects the psyche as a whole. I recommend looking deeper into this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ne and NI are one function: intuition, the attitude is a separate trait that affects the psyche as a whole. I recommend looking deeper into this.
I'm thinking about my other functions. Even though I am a Ti user, I am aware of the thoughts of others. As a Fe user, I am aware of my own feelings and values. Especially recently in my 50's, I have written poetry where I dig down deep and connect to them. That's probably as far as I can go, because I am sure my connection with Se is nothing like an Se user.

I don't seem to connect with my Fi in the same place as my Fe, though I am not certain if my Fi is only an emulation. I have read quite a few theories about how we use the opposite attitude of our functions. Some theories say that in times of stress, or a mind-altered state, ENTP's behave like INTJ's. There are other theories that say we emulate these functions with others in our egos. None of these theories really resonate with me.
 

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I'm thinking about my other functions. Even though I am a Ti user, I am aware of the thoughts of others. As a Fe user, I am aware of my own feelings and values. Especially recently in my 50's, I have written poetry where I dig down deep and connect to them. That's probably as far as I can go, because I am sure my connection with Se is nothing like an Se user.

I don't seem to connect with my Fi in the same place as my Fe, though I am not certain if my Fi is only an emulation. I have read quite a few theories about how we use the opposite attitude of our functions. Some theories say that in times of stress, or a mind-altered state, ENTP's behave like INTJ's. There are other theories that say we emulate these functions with others in our egos. None of these theories really resonate with me.
Well, an ENTP is not supposed to be a "Ti" and "Fe" user, and even less "Si" but an extravert, intuitive, thinker who leads with intuition. The way things are defined changes a lot from theory to theory and in many modern ones that use the grant stack you can find a lot of inconsistencies and simply things that are not observable or make any sense really. There's a section here about Jungian theories, there are some threads there that give a better perspective imo.

Depending what you read, you're not supposed to be aware of your own feelings or values as "Fe" because "Fe" is blind to them. And I'm not sure where the idea that poetry is Se comes from? that's a new one for me
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Well, an ENTP is not supposed to be a "Ti" and "Fe" user, and even less "Si" but an extravert, intuitive, thinker who leads with intuition. The way things are defined changes a lot from theory to theory and in many modern ones that use the grant stack you can find a lot of inconsistencies and simply things that are not observable or make any sense really. There's a section here about Jungian theories, there are some threads there that give a better perspective imo.

Depending what you read, you're not supposed to be aware of your own feelings or values as "Fe" because "Fe" is blind to them. And I'm not sure where the idea that poetry is Se comes from? that's a new one for me
Whether we have 8 cognitive functions or 4 is a semantic debate I suppose. If a function is in your ego (top 4 functions), you definitely use it. To suggest that I am only supposed to intuit and think as an ENTP is not accurate. I often enter a room and feel the mood of others. I am most certainly a feeler and sensor as well. Everyone has all 8 cognitive processes (four functions with introverted and extraverted for each).

How we use the lower four functions is another topic of debate. As much as I would like to be sidetracked and debate which theorist is right, I am much more curious about people's experience of Ni, when they have Ne in their ego (first four functions).
 
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Whether we have 8 cognitive functions or 4 is a semantic debate I suppose. If a function is in your ego (top 4 functions), you definitely use it. To suggest that I am only supposed to intuit and think as an ENTP is not accurate. I often enter a room and feel the mood of others. I am most certainly a feeler and sensor as well. Everyone has all 8 cognitive processes (four functions with introverted and extraverted for each).

How we use the lower four functions is another topic of debate. As much as I would like to be sidetracked and debate which theorist is right, I am much more curious about people's experience of Ni, when they have Ne in their ego (first four functions).
It's more than semantics, because now you're asking of peoples' experiences with what you think might be NI but without a discussion of why that would be NI and not some other function how can you know if it's really that? Same as your example with reading the room, which is not necessarily "Fe". We can't be all and everything, that just beats the whole meaning of typology anyways, people have a preference for a reason, it's a psychological and epistemological leaning, it's more than having a certain skillset.

But anyways, what you described is a bit vague which is why I said it could just be intuition in general. NIs have a subjective streak so it would depend on the contents of those theories and what kind of information you put together and in what way. Do you mean that you just see the big picture suddenly? that things come together from information you unconsciously put together from things you've been observing and so on?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It's more than semantics, because now you're asking of peoples' experiences with what you think might be NI but without a discussion of why that would be NI and not some other function how can you know if it's really that?
There are a lot of possible explanations of one's experience of Ni. It could be emulation. It could be a "four sides of the mind" thing. Since this Ni experience occurs during fasting, it could be some altered mind kind of thing. It becomes very muddy waters when you get hung up on arguing theory rather than sharing experience.

Same as your example with reading the room, which is not necessarily "Fe". We can't be all and everything, that just beats the whole meaning of typology anyways, people have a preference for a reason, it's a psychological and epistemological leaning, it's more than having a certain skillset.
This is just wrong. People can access their tertiary or child function and it does not them make them the "end all and be all." I worked with a very competent INFJ computer programmer in the past. He didn't become such a great coder by being in touch with his feelings. As a type 2 ENTP, I would consider myself as much a feeler as a thinker.

This is my understanding. Everyone has all 8 cognitive processes to function. Usually, we are conscious of the top four processes. Certain altered states may allow us to experience cognitive processes that we might not normally experience.

But anyways, what you described is a bit vague which is why I said it could just be intuition in general. NIs have a subjective streak so it would depend on the contents of those theories and what kind of information you put together and in what way. Do you mean that you just see the big picture suddenly? that things come together from information you unconsciously put together from things you've been observing and so on?
"Big picture" sounds like an Ne thing and clear path forward is more of an Ni thing. I have experienced the latter, but mostly while fasting.
 

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It's more than semantics, because now you're asking of peoples' experiences with what you think might be NI but without a discussion of why that would be NI and not some other function how can you know if it's really that? Same as your example with reading the room, which is not necessarily "Fe". We can't be all and everything, that just beats the whole meaning of typology anyways, people have a preference for a reason, it's a psychological and epistemological leaning, it's more than having a certain skillset.

But anyways, what you described is a bit vague which is why I said it could just be intuition in general. NIs have a subjective streak so it would depend on the contents of those theories and what kind of information you put together and in what way. Do you mean that you just see the big picture suddenly? that things come together from information you unconsciously put together from things you've been observing and so on?
I don't think you understand what Mark means by semantics. If I'm understanding correctly, he is saying that it doesn't matter if the 4 stack theory or the 8 stack theory is correct, as through some sort of process, everyone has everything.

Arguing what that process is instead of giving personal experience doesn't help him. Hence why I gave my 2 cents, he gave his, and the discussion concluded.
 
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I don't think you understand what Mark means by semantics. If I'm understanding correctly, he is saying that it doesn't matter if the 4 stack theory or the 8 stack theory is correct, as through some sort of process, everyone has everything.

Arguing what that process is instead of giving personal experience doesn't help him. Hence why I gave my 2 cents, he gave his, and the discussion concluded.
Except it does matter, because otherwise we may all be talking about different things and thinking we communicate when we aren't... I don't get the whole "theory is separate from experience" it's not. And Jung's theory which my understanding is closest to is very much an empirical theory, contrary to many of its off-shoots.

There are a lot of possible explanations of one's experience of Ni. It could be emulation. It could be a "four sides of the mind" thing. Since this Ni experience occurs during fasting, it could be some altered mind kind of thing. It becomes very muddy waters when you get hung up on arguing theory rather than sharing experience.

This is just wrong. People can access their tertiary or child function and it does not them make them the "end all and be all." I worked with a very competent INFJ computer programmer in the past. He didn't become such a great coder by being in touch with his feelings. As a type 2 ENTP, I would consider myself as much a feeler as a thinker.

This is my understanding. Everyone has all 8 cognitive processes to function. Usually, we are conscious of the top four processes. Certain altered states may allow us to experience cognitive processes that we might not normally experience.

"Big picture" sounds like an Ne thing and clear path forward is more of an Ni thing. I have experienced the latter, but mostly while fasting.
Again, without defining why your experience is N, I, E and not something else how do you conclude it is? Big picture, knowing without knowing how, seeing the potential or possibilities by unconsciously combining information, noticing the infrequent and deriving principles or possibilities from them, are all part of N by definition of what N is, it's how N people differ than the others hence how we define N, it's empirical not theoretical. All of these are experience-based, not some imaginary theory, unlike the four sides of the mind which is completely absurd. If you've already concluded that it's NI then why are you asking if it is?

Coding is no more "T" than building things is "S", it's a skill we can all develop. Different types may have different approaches, some prefer to stick to problem solving and known things, others may innovate or specialize in it or transfer their understanding from one skill to another through seeing how they connect (N), others may choose where to apply their skill in accordance to what they value. Trusting intuition and deriving ego fulfillment from it is what makes someone N, which is also why automatically they cannot be a Sensor. However everyone has their individual level of preference that informs their lives differently than someone else's.

So I can't give you my personal experience if you don't explain clearly what you're describing in the OP. What I'm getting is that you're talking about intuition in general, as I described above, not necessarily NI.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
OK. Loving others is a skill we develop and has nothing to do with feeling. Theoretical physics is a skill we develop and has nothing to do with thinking. I guess I have this cognitive function thing all wrong.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sarcasm aside, Neil deGrasse Tyson is an INFJ physicist. I am sure his Ti and Ni helps him better understand his job. Our cognitive functions help us excel or struggle with certain tasks. As an ENTP, driving is more tiring to me than most because of poor Se.
 

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Sarcasm aside, Neil deGrasse Tyson is an INFJ physicist. I am sure his Ti and Ni helps him better understand his job. Our cognitive functions help us excel or struggle with certain tasks. As an ENTP, driving is more tiring to me than most because of poor Se.
yea, thanks for basically repeating the same thing as me..
having poor S doesn't make you a Sensor (= TYPE) that's the whole point of typology, we are oriented psychologically by our preferences
 

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yea, thanks for basically repeating the same thing as me..
having poor S doesn't make you a Sensor (= TYPE) that's the whole point of typology, we are oriented psychologically by our preferences
Mark, feel free to correct me. I'm just trying to bridge the gap here.

He's repeating it back so you understand that he knows what you're trying to say, but he's trying to let you know that him misunderstanding isn't the problem.

What you're misunderstanding is he's not asking for the theory, he has heard a bunch, as he pointed out. He's asking for personal experience so he can narrow down the theories he does know.

The problem is, you're not listening when he says that. Hence why he's basically spelling it out for you, dripping with sarcasm, cause that's what ENTPs do.
 
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