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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ne-Si/Si-Ne
How are three of these objects related?



 
There is no right or wrong answer.

The kind of thinking you engage in here, reflects the general understanding of Ne-Si, imo.

It's a form of memory - perhaps you imagined a rich golfer who's losing his teeth.

Perhaps you imagined sweeping sand and paper clips off the floor with a dustpan, after moving the potted plant and then collecting your paycheck (5 items, lulz).

What's occurring is your intelligent memory has to activate every feature of every item and hold them in your short-term memory whilst it sorts through common qualities.

Simultaneously, it has to discard features that fit only two items because it was searching for three.

Now - if this was Ne-Si, these connections will be made automatically, lightning fast as your memory pulls them from your unconscious - less concerned with accuracy.

If this was Si-Ne then this will be a deliberate, intentional process where you are trying to think of things that might connect them together.

You can clearly see how everything you know about Ne, and Si - are found within this idea.

Ne - faster, externally focused, creative.
Si - slower, internally focused, cautious.

Little "aha" moment for you re: Si - if Si already had a connection in your mind when you look at those objects etc - Si may very well be faster to produce a response than Ne, it already knows an answer - if this happens you will know it's Si because it will literally feel like you know the answer, and are searching for it - after something you know you know.




Ni-Se/Se-Ni
What is appearing?



 
I think this one is really obvious.. but..

Ni-Se pieces together the complete picture from little information - and is content with that - it sees that, and from the first image "knows" what the complete picture is.

Consider Se-Ni as being less "cool" with that, as Se-Ni requires real world data/information - it'll accept the big picture, when it sees the big picture - and it actively seeks to flesh it out, if the users interest is piqued.



I took those images from a book called "Intelligent Memory" by Dr. Barry Gordon and Lisa Berger - it's not related to MBTI or function theory at all, I saw the connections and thought these were excellent ways to express the general gist of my understanding of each axis.

I have one issue with this, and that is that both examples require use of a decision making function - the first example.. decisions are being made with regards to what ideas/associations to discard and what connections seem relevant.

The second one has a decision being made with regards to what the picture is.

So there are inherent "decisions" being made all the time here, in order for the functions to, well, function - what decision making function that is, exactly, depends on the situation, the context - you need to apply these ideas to literally everything and every situation to really get a feel for it.


Anyway - keen to hear thoughts!
 

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Ok ok, these one of the interesting threads, I'll be the first one

Okay for the first image, I could make out those objects to be everyday objects of an elderly old person's room, first is the plant which could be a decoration in the old person's house at all. Then you have the dollar, which is part of the person's income and placed in their wallet. Next you have the set of teeth, which could easily be the old person's fake teeth since they most likely won't have any proper teeth and would need a new jaw. Next you have the dust pan, a cleaning tool for the old person to clean up the mess since they're most likely old and would not in time enough to use a vacuum. Next you have the pin clips, the old person uses this to write. Finally we have a golf course, which is a good representation of what the old man likes to do in his spare time, despite not being in in their room, it can correlate to what old people do in their spare time, which is most likely play a low energy sport such as golf. The whole image represents the life of the old person in their materials. The first image can be used to connect all in one.

Looks like I Ni'd the fuck out of the first image.
 

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Without looking at the spoilers for either pic:

I guess I could see the money, dentures, and golf course being related because old guys like to golf and will tend to have dentures and old men can be grandpas and grandpas usually have money for their grandchildren.

The next pic, all I get from that is it's a telephone? Can't see much else. Maybe a granola bar... or a chocolate bar... Like one that's partially been eaten... I have succeeded in making myself hungry now, wow.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The next pic, all I get from that is it's a telephone? Can't see much else.
Yeah, it's a telephone - I wasn't trying to test people with this, I was trying to get across the gist of my understanding of the perception 'axis'.
It's funny, because I prefer dichotomy, I was just reading this book and I thought oh shit, these are perfect for how I see Ni-Se and Ne-Si.


I just had a thought - I touched on it in the OP - but since decisions are being made all of time, even with these perceiving functions - doesn't it make sense that considering Se-Ni prefers to gather information rather than roll with an incomplete picture.. would this mean that Se is making decisions, in real time, with regards to what information is important?

Consider say, an intruder breaking into your house (yeah creepy example but bear with me) - assuming it's somebody you don't know, the intruder is in unfamiliar territory - so in real time, the intruder has to be aware of their environment, and be making decisions with regards to what sensory information they're receiving is important and what isn't important.

Hm.

I suppose in this instance, an Ni-Se intruder might break into your house, and from a little information (perhaps no car in the driveway and dead silence inside) - they might assume therefore, that you're not home - and be less attentive to making the same kinds of decisions pertaining to sensory information as the Se-Ni type might focus more on - because they don't 'know' nobody is home, so they're more 'alert' - i.e, in a constant state of information gathering.

I don't know.
Just kinda wingin' it.
 

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The first post of this thread is "Ne-Si" then as described in its own content :crazy:
 
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without looking at spoilers:

first picture 2 things happened. first, the objects made me think of a retired wealthy old man. then my mind tried to connect the objects but this wore me out quickly and I gave up.


second picture I immediately thought the picture represented the rise of the prevalence of cell phones/mobile technology in society. I thought as the phone became clearer in the picture it represented how more and more relevant mobile technology is in our culture. I thought that the picture was outdated because the cell phone looks old and that the cell phone should be clear as day if it were to represent our current time.

the second picture was way more interesting imo
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The first post of this thread is "Ne-Si" then as described in its own content :crazy:
That's the beauty of it.
We likely all resonate with both 'Ne' and 'Ni' entirely - yet those examples are very accurately representing each 'function axis', imo.

I feel like it's actually the same memory process in action, in each of those examples.

Lightning fast connections/associations are happening - one to piece together various seemingly unrelated objects (Ne) and one to flesh out an incomplete picture (Ni) - I feel like it's the same process seeking out connections, either way - thing is, with 'Ni', you need to apply that idea to the inner world of meanings, rather than an incomplete picture of a mobile phone - it's the idea, I'm trying to convey.

In this respect - I see "Si" as being very, very similar to "Ni" - I mean, everybody harps on about "Si" as being an inner world of stored impressions and data etc - how is this not literally everything in the OP? lol
 

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The only problem I see with this is that the first picture you can't objectively differentiate between Ne-Si or Si-Ne because you can't really measure the 'speed' of associations in such a way that could produce a reliable answer on which goes first. You could potentially see some difference if you put two such people next to each other and do the test, but it's likely flimsy for self-evaluation.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The only problem I see with this is that the first picture you can't objectively differentiate between Ne-Si or Si-Ne because you can't really measure the 'speed' of associations in such a way that could produce a reliable answer on which goes first. You could potentially see some difference if you put two such people next to each other and do the test, but it's likely flimsy for self-evaluation.
There are three options for self-evaluation:

A - "Got it instantly" - no thought required at all. Immediate connections. Clash of thoughts occurred instantly.
B - "Took a few seconds" - not instant. Thought required. Ordinary 'thinking' takes over while memory percolates.
C - "What?" - No answer. Nothing clicks either automatically (A) or consciously (B).

Those are the criteria for self-assessment according to the book.

I scored A on almost every item in the test, outside of ones that referenced American towns I've never heard of, a map that was of somewhere in America I don't know about, and this:

Do you see the faces?




I saw three, two of which were incorrect - if they'd been correct, it would have been another A because they were all immediate, no thought required. I was surprised to find I failed this one.
They were incorrect, due to being figments of my imagination, not clear faces - imagined faces, created out of 'intuition', I suppose.

I for one can clearly see the downside to having a lightning fast intuitive brain like I do.
Too much confidence at first glance, not enough caution.
Something I've been told since I was a kid, basically.
 

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There are three options for self-evaluation:

A - "Got it instantly" - no thought required at all. Immediate connections. Clash of thoughts occurred instantly.
B - "Took a few seconds" - not instant. Thought required. Ordinary 'thinking' takes over while memory percolates.
C - "What?" - No answer. Nothing clicks either automatically (A) or consciously (B).

Those are the criteria for self-assessment according to the book.

I scored A on almost every item in the test, outside of ones that referenced American towns I've never heard of, a map that was of somewhere in America I don't know about, and this:

Do you see the faces?




I saw three, two of which were incorrect - if they'd been correct, it would have been another A because they were all immediate, no thought required. I was surprised to find I failed this one.
They were incorrect, due to being figments of my imagination, not clear faces - imagined faces, created out of 'intuition', I suppose.

I for one can clearly see the downside to having a lightning fast intuitive brain like I do.
Too much confidence at first glance, not enough caution.
Something I've been told since I was a kid, basically.
As soon as I try and reiterate what I get instantly, it stops being instant and goes into the realm of thinking which potentially brings all other functions at the front as well. And open more possibilities to connect the images.

I don't see any face aside from a potential face on the vase and that's after staring at it for a while. Reminds me of a zombie from Plants vs Zombies.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
As soon as I try and reiterate what I get instantly, it stops being instant and goes into the realm of thinking which potentially brings all other functions at the front as well. And open more possibilities to connect the images.

I don't see any face aside from a potential face on the vase and that's after staring at it for a while. Reminds me of a zombie from Plants vs Zombies.

..so you feel a need to reiterate, before feeling confident?
Interesting.

I'm like.. 'bang' and it's done. I don't require the clarity provided by reiteration. I already know how it is.

That face you're talking about is one of the ones I saw.. it's not correct - I had the same Plants vs Zombies face in mind, haha.
There's two clear as day faces in there - I've got a sneaking suspicion that kind of thinking might be something "Se" types excel at.
 

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Photo 1 - energy conservation is consistent all items present. (Without any thought).

photo 2 - old cellphone from the 90s - or a tilted arcade game. (Without any thought).


I would say my intuition in general is strong and overlaps at given points; but it appear(s) I have utilized (Ni) for both, according to (Post #1). I contend, however, intuition is not always to be 'accurate' - rather the 'process' itself is to see correlations between (X, Y, Z), and make sense of such correlation(s) afterhand via logical-processing unit(s) - whether it is the correct answer or not. Accuracy is merely coincidental.
 

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..so you feel a need to reiterate, before feeling confident?
Interesting.

I'm like.. 'bang' and it's done. I don't require the clarity provided by reiteration. I already know how it is.

That face you're talking about is one of the ones I saw.. it's not correct - I had the same Plants vs Zombies face in mind, haha.
There's two clear as day faces in there - I've got a sneaking suspicion that kind of thinking might be something "Se" types excel at.
It sort of feels like I need to take a moment and collect my thoughts. The fastest I imagined were the dentures biting the dollar, the dustpan collecting the clips and the golf course and plant I could not relate them with the others instantaneously - the plant just reminded me of my own plants and that I like them, and the golf course means nothing to me aside from what I've seen in the movies. After staring for a few more seconds I also got the image of paying for buying a plant. Still nada with the golf course.

I really don't see any face xD I stared at it for full minutes and nope-nothing

the phone to me was obvious by the 3rd image, and kinda saw it in the 2nd
 

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I immediately associated plants make money, money represents a golf course in multiple ways, barren of trees, in which again goes back to making money and industrialization, destroying nature for material gain and pointlessness, especially in relation to the space and resources a golf course take up for a meaningless, silly game.

Second one instantly saw a cell phone.

So I don't know where that would fall under.
 

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In the first one, the plant, money, and golf flag area can all be referred to as "green".
In the second one, I saw a cell phone.

I definitely agree with you with these being great illustrations of the two perceiving axis. I wish the second one was more ambiguous, though.

edit to add: the third image looks like a face in the window. It looks like that face could be kissing another person on the lips.
 

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I did this all "immediately" because I wanted to test my real cognition and not a forced, unnatural one where I had to exert effort:

1) They're all inanimate objects? I really didn't make any connections. I paid close attention to whether the money tied everything together though. Money makes the world go around might have been a thought edging on my consciousness.

2) A phone. Duh. Immediate response after looking at the images from top to bottom.
 

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I didn't look at any answers before posting, so that my answers wouldn't be 'tainted' by others.

For the first image I thought we were supposed to do them line by line (I hadn't read the spoiler yet, lol) so I thought something like 'grow food, sell it for money, so you can make a living and feed yourself (the teeth)' and then for the next three 'clean up the paper clips with the dust pan (chores) and then you can go have fun (play golf)' The first line felt more immediate to me, but the second line I thought several seconds longer about.

The second image looks like an obvious phone to me. Though I mis-read the question as 'what is appealing' so I was confused for a moment, xD, 'I don't know what's appealing, but it looks like a phone.' I'm an idiot. xD
 

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All I got for the first image is that the plant, dollar bill, and putting green are all the same color. I didn't see anything else that categorically or functionally lumps them together.

The second one is definitely a late-90's, early 00's era cell phone. I had a similar one back in the day, I think.
 
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