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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Already posted this on the INFP section, but i wanted an ENTP's opinion, too.
So I'm finding out that my ENTP friend is really selfish. Not that I think all ENTP's are selfish :) The first couple times I noticed it it only concerned me. For one example, we were working on a group project for history and decided on the topic of medieval weapons because we both know a lot about them. We had been between that and guilds, something he's interested in but that neither of us know anything about. So when the teacher asked us what our topic was he immediately spoke up and told her "guilds!" I have no idea why he did that because we had discussed it clearly and precisely and he seemed to be enthusiastic about medieval weapons. I didn't push him into it or anything :mellow: When I asked him about it he said he "forgot" but I can always tell when he's lying. Anyways, I pushed aside my feelings of hurt and anger for the sake of our friendship and have done that in several other similar situations (even though it gave me splitting headaches). I mean, he's a good friend of mine. Why separate because of something like that?
Well, this last time was my breaking point. I yelled at him. He was acting with complete disregard to anyone's feelings but his own (I won't go into details, it's complicated). And he wasn't being unfair to me but to another person. I think the fact that he was inflicting his selfishness onto another human being triggered my protective mode and put me over the edge. That and all the withheld feelings from before just exploded out... I just called him out for it. Basically it ended with him giving me the coldest look I've ever seen and telling me that it was none of my business. I get where he's coming from with that, but I couldn't just stand by and let someone's freedom be taken away because of his selfishness.
My questions are:
-Should I apologise for my yelling or will he see it as weakness?
-Should I still be friends with him now that I've seen the real him?
-Any other advice?
thanks for reading this novel :kitteh:, and let me know if i can clarify anything. also, i am not meaning to offend other ENTP's, i just thought it would be nice to get another one's opinion :)
 

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..And you thought coming to the ENTP board to ask this would yield a solution? Sorry - I have an inability to see irony and just let it go.

So onto the problem. If I had a friend like that, I would likely turn the tables on him if he pulled something like that. Either let us both sink (seeing as it's a group project), or just let him do 80% of the research himself. Also, why didn't you approach the teacher and change your topic to weapons? Either way, I wouldn't let him get the best of me. If he provokes - provoke back subtly. It's a game with no bounds, really.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
..And you thought coming to the ENTP board to ask this would yield a solution?
Why not? Seemed like a good idea to get an ENTP's point of view

So onto the problem. If I had a friend like that, I would likely turn the tables on him if he pulled something like that. Either let us both sink (seeing as it's a group project), or just let him do 80% of the research himself. Also, why didn't you approach the teacher and change your topic to weapons? Either way, I wouldn't let him get the best of me. If he provokes - provoke back subtly. It's a game with no bounds, really.
Lol, i did make him do most of the research, but i could never do something behind his back like changing the topic. XD why do you think he did that anyway?
 

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Why not? Seemed like a good idea to get an ENTP's point of view



Lol, i did make him do most of the research, but i could never do something behind his back like changing the topic. XD why do you think he did that anyway?
Perhaps he didn't want to do a project on something he already knew - else he may get bored and not complete it. So to pique his curiosity, went for the guilds topic. You did say he was more interested in it. Sounds to me like he doesn't really respect you enough to consider you a (real) proponent in the making of the decision - even more so as capable of standing up for yourself.

Of course all of this is told from your perspective, and I have no clue who your friend is. So it's all speculative anyway.

I might also add that apparently ENTP's can be selfish; at least from what I've read. I don't know that I would believe that. A personality profile doesn't rule over every facet of a human being's choices, thoughts, and actions. It's not like mind control. Could just be your friend is selfish. Just the same, not all ENTP's are elephant blowing whores. Even F's are selfish - heck all humans are selfish in a way. What makes you think he is ENTP?
 
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-Should I apologise for my yelling or will he see it as weakness?
Don't apologize. Not because it's weak. Just because it's unnecessary. If you really want to, I guess you can, but it is unnecessary.

-Should I still be friends with him now that I've seen the real him?
That is your decision.
I suggest running a cost benefit analysis. Do you still want to be his friend?
Is that the real him?
Sounds like he just isn't very emotionally aware. That comes with a lot of time. A good 25 year life span at least with lots of tapping at the issue to get there. Most ENTps take 40 years actually. So...up to you.
 

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I might also add that apparently ENTP's can be selfish; at least from what I've read. I don't know that I would believe that. A personality profile doesn't rule over every facet of a human being's choices, thoughts, and actions. It's not like mind control. Could just be your friend is selfish. Just the same, not all ENTP's are elephant blowing whores. Even F's are selfish - heck all humans are selfish in a way. What makes you think he is ENTP?
The relationship problems outlined by the INFP OP are very common complaints from INFPs. The friend is likely an ENTP.
Obviously everyone is selfish in their own way and is annoyed by different things. INFPs are characteristically annoyed by certain attributes unique to ENTP processing system. INFPs most of the time don't know how to express what they're upset about with the ENTP all they know is that they're upset about the ENTP being a "jerk" or "selfish" or otherwise being basically insensitive to the INFP's needs.

Illusionary relations between psychological ("personality") types
 

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The relationship problems outlined by the INFP OP are very common complaints from INFPs. The friend is likely an ENTP.
Obviously everyone is selfish in their own way and is annoyed by different things. INFPs are characteristically annoyed by certain attributes unique to ENTP processing system. INFPs most of the time don't know how to express what they're upset about with the ENTP all they know is that they're upset about the ENTP being a "jerk" or "selfish" or otherwise being basically insensitive to the INFP's needs.

Illusionary relations between psychological ("personality") types
What is the issue? He outlined the problem quite boldly - he is upset that the ENTP chose topic 2 as opposed to the mutually agreed upon topic 1, without open consideration for his project partner. It doesn't seem as if he is upset for some ambiguous reason, but a specific, reasonable one.

I propose the following equation as a possibility: [lack of assertion on your part] + [his forgetfulness] x [lack of consideration on his part] = misunderstanding.
 

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-Should I apologise for my yelling or will he see it as weakness?
Well, do you truly regret yelling? If no, than don't apologize. Like someone stated above, it's unnecessary. He might be expecting this, since he may probably view you as being irrational now and not blame himself... or he may think you're annoying for seemingly randomly snapping at him. Either way, don't apologise. How old is this ENTP btw?
-Should I still be friends with him now that I've seen the real him?
Do you WANT to be his friend? That one's basically all up to you, I can't decide that considering I don't know him, lol. Observe his behavior after that and judge based on that.
 

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I don't know how to help you like your friend better...he is probably just immature, isn't he....but I do know that emotional explosion is not the way to get your point across with ENTP, neither is heartfelt apology. The is an area in which you simply cannot speak the same language. Only a logical argument will do, and in any case, he will likely argue against you to win the point and hurt your feelings further.

You are just going to have to decide, for now, if you want to stay this close to this person or not. You may find that a little distance makes it easier....
 

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I don't know how to help you like your friend better...he is probably just immature, isn't he....but I do know that emotional explosion is not the way to get your point across with ENTP, neither is heartfelt apology. The is an area in which you simply cannot speak the same language. Only a logical argument will do, and in any case, he will likely argue against you to win the point and hurt your feelings further.
A lot of people have been saying that an apology is unnecessary. I presume because it is not 'logical' to apologise as wrong was initially done on the ENTP's side. But I reckon that the reason that the INFP OP was thinking of apologising was to try to restore the relationship by making the first move at saying sorry (and then hoping that the ENTP would reciprocate and say sorry too).

I am particularly interested as I got into a debate with an INTP colleague a while back about me saying sorry to him about something. He said 'what's the point in saying sorry when you don't really believe you did anything wrong?' I said, but I just feel really bad because you think it's wrong and I've done something you disapprove of (even if admittedly I didn't think it was that bad). To put this in context, the INTP is very into saving the environment and reducing CO2 emissions and he discovered I had left the electric heater in my office on while I was at lunch. I left it on to keep the room cosy for when I got back. When he told me he had discovered the heater was on, I kept apologising and saying sorry to him because I didn't want him to be disappointed in me but I admitted that I left it on deliberately. He said "You're not really sorry are you?". I said, "I am because I feel it. I feel bad and I feel sorry"

Do people think that xNTPs apologise less than some other types because they only say sorry on the very rare occasions when it logically makes sense?
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks to all of you for giving me really great thoughts on this! I've decided I just don't want to have to deal with him anymore. He's just not worth more headaches. I'm not really sorry for yelling because he deserved it. If he wants to still be friends he'll have to apologize and stop walking all over me because I won't stand for it anymore. Thanks again, you guys. I won't have a headache this weekend!
 

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Do people think that xNTPs apologise less than some other types because they only say sorry on the very rare occasions when it logically makes sense?
Interesting. I'm sure there are plenty of times when I've apologized simply for going overboard and offended someone who didn't deserve it. For example, with your statement above about apologizing for leaving the electric heater on in the office, knowing that a friend of mine cares deeply about stuff like that, I would apologize. Not excessively and go overboard in it, but I'd feel bad for disappointing him.

But I would never apologize in situations where I'm not the one at fault (and the other person clearly is) simply in order to fix the friendship. I see it as bluntly as I screw up = apologize, they screw up = don't apologize. So actually hearing about someone who might apologize simply in hopes of getting the other person to apologize is kind of foreign to me. I would just ignore the person and talk to another one.
 
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