I agree with you there, about not checking the horoscope before, haha! I do like checking it when I'm having inexplicably bad days. I often do find that I've got terrible transits happening in my chart, and knowing that almost helps with accepting and moving on, preparing for things to be better the next day.I agree: The Venn diagram of INFJ and Scorpio seems to have a very high degree of overlap. I'm not into Astrology to the degree of "I need to go to the market today, but first I'd better check my horoscope whether I should"; but I am naturally so Scorpio (just as I'm naturally so INFJ), and so many things (relationships, etc.) fall into place just as Astrology would have it, that it's difficult for me not to give it a lot of credence. Throughout my life, the people I naturally have fallen in with in a special way have always been Cancers. It would be pushing things to say, "Oh, just coincidence." Nope, there's something happening there.
And it's amazing, yes. Could be something interesting to look into more - zodiac signs (or birth chart placements, especially) and seeing how they relate to MBTI type, or vice versa.
Cancers and Scorpios....It really is a good mix! Fortunately, I've got a lot of planets in Cancer (including Jupiter!), so that's always helped out. And I have quite a few in Scorpio, as well! Funny how my Sun sign is an Air sign, but I so much more identify with Earths and Waters... :/ If you like Astrology and reading about birth charts (and partners' charts together, and all that), I recommend a site called: astro.com
They've got some lovely insights!
Oh this is lovely! That's how you know it was meant to be - just hits suddenly for both!Thanks! It came unlooked for, unexpectedly, a Spring when I thought only Winter was ahead. Same situation of unexpectedness on the other side, too. Yay for us!
Yes, the latter is rather selfish, isn't it? It's certainly not easier being aware that one is more sensitive, but oh, how it helps! And I love that you refer to it like a dance with each having different roles to fill....How true! I think so many people strive to find "twin souls" or the one who will "complete them", but that kind of total union really doesn't work, as sad as that is. It's all based on our idealism and expectations of the other person, not seeing them as they are. And I'm not begrudging those who do that, because I am very guilty of it myself. It's one of the things I've learned since stepping away from my INFJ partner. I was seeing him as a part of myself, because I loved and trusted him so innately. Obviously that couldn't have worked out well at all. I was expecting him to read my mind at times.Quite so. It helps matters when Sensitivity knows that it's more sensitive than the expected norm, rather than just to think "I'm normal . . . everyone is this way . . . so everyone should know what to do and what to avoid," which can lead to explosive situations. When Sensitivity can say, "I'm sensitive in ways a, b, and c, other person has his/her right to be sensitive in ways x, y, and z . . . and both sides have a right not to thoroughly understand the other's preferences," then it ideally leads to just what you mention: grace, love, tact, patience, and absolute trust. It's when immature Sensitivity says, "I'm sensitive in ways a, b, and c, and you need to be exactly the same way and be able to predict my feelings about everything" that everything goes kablooey. A relationship should be complementary, like two dancers in a pas-de-deux, each usually having different postures, different steps, but supporting the other, trusting the other to be there. Immaturity usually thinks that relationships should be "We're both all the same in everything," like synchronized swimming. That attitude doesn't end well, to say the least: Different people can't be the same.
Not at all! I'm also a writer!!! (Perhaps that was to be expected of us, haha.) But I feel just what you mean. To be able to create, and to create something meaningful that will touch a chord with humanity, one has to be able to understand and feel those deeper emotions. And I love the developed "Se"...Goodness, that really only can be positive for these types, eh?I can't help but think that the innate empathy present in being a writer, and my being of an artistic temperament, help. To "live" the artistry requires being able to set aside self and "become" the other element. Doing this gives one confidence that the Self remains unthreatened even when its Creativity Facility is wholly engaged in Otherness. It's a bit paradoxical: A person is comfortable with vulnerability when, at base, there's assurance of invulnerability. And perhaps Se chimes in with its amiable "Hey! Just go for it and see what happens! Fun!", because it's confident that it can handle whatever happens.
What do you write, may I ask? Have you ever published anything?
Ah, okay, so yours is Type 6 for the Enneagram? I took it as well and got 6 first, then 9, then 7....I wonder if it's the same. If I'm not totally off here, that means you would be a "Loyalist"? That would make much sense, haha! Very loyal to those you love!Yes, that's it--one just knows.
INFJs are innately dark and cautious, especially (I suppose) 6w5 INFJs such as myself. Se, as above, has helped me get beyond that.
And there's the Scorpio depth of digging beneath and finding complete understanding!
So true, and while it is good to keep each other on our toes so that things don't settle into something too boring for either (although I think I don't actually mind boring - I need security most of all, so boring is fine for me, haha), it's sometimes hard to know where the line is. I think with those fears of his getting set into motion, he began to worry that he felt more for me than I did him, while I was already worrying the same. We didn't talk about it, and thus the fears festered. I know it now! But I do worry that it was only part of the problem. Hence why I hoped to learn as much as possible!His instincts are just right.
To state the obvious: We always want the best for those we love. Keeps one on one's toes . . . not necessarily a bad thing.
Oh you both are, but you do so deserve it! <3 You obviously take such good care of each other.Only, on my part, instinct, passion, and shy self-assurance. I'd guess that when he realized I wasn't a user, wasn't faking it, that broke the chains that held him back. Also, I'm charming.
Once people see into each other's heart, they understand the motives, and what would otherwise be threatening personality-imperialism becomes enriching.
We are soooooooo lucky. :heart:
And yes, it's very true. It might be sheer idealism, but I think not. I feel this from my INFJ as well. However, I think I am playing the role you did here - I seem to be the one with the instinct, passion, and shy self-assurance (sometimes too shy, I know - and I know he knows it, haha). I do feel that I have to be the one to (re-)earn his trust. He still has mine, even after the hurts. I always leave him little hints and clues in our messages together, and he sometimes (I think when he feels confident that they're geared towards him and his trust) responds in kind. I love when we fall into place like that! It's just hard to know for sure how and when to do it for us. Oh, I do hope we can break through our doubts the way you both have!
Dismissiveness is so cold and entails a deep lack of respect, I feel. Or disdain. You're absolutely right. If such a thing exists, the relationship is doomed to Hell. Even with my INFJ guy....I said it before, but I see the child side of him come out quite a bit, especially when he's feeling upset or frustrated. I even often saw this child in his eyes, as if he was looking out on the world from within. I know who that is - that's the child he didn't get to live growing up because of his abuse. So while I know this tends to make him more reckless (well, no, not really - his Scorpio nature keeps him on track for the most part) or rather more childish, I also know and respect that this is a side he needs to live out. I almost want to encourage it. But what I tried to do instead, and I think this helped him, was just let him be. So when he wanted - no, needed - to do or enjoy things that others might consider childish or silly, I told him he should. I told him to treat himself. I even used to indulge him by buying things related to those childish-seeming hobbies, but I actually don't know how much he liked this, as he never said outwardly and it was hard to gauge his reaction. I eventually stopped. Nevertheless, I do know he appreciated the quiet support of "you do what you love, and don't fear judgement". It's really not so hard to do for those we really love, so absolutely....if people are dismissing another's dreams or hobbies or whichever....Ooh, that's bound to get ugly! And rightly so!Dreamers (of course) have a respect for dreaminess which, even if present in others, or wished for by others, is imperfect in others. That respect is very important. Or, to put it the other way around, dismissiveness of dreaminess is the beginning of the end. If one or the other of the partners can manage to have strong Se moments and partake of non-dream-reality (for dreams have their own kind of grasp on reality, right Freud? [Freud nods]), it keeps the relationship from getting messed up via ignoring practicalities. (This goes for INFJ/ENFP relationships, too, by the way.)
<3Please, folks, don't vomit: But my guy is an endless cornucopia of wonderful.
I didn't see any vomit! Please do keep it coming, hahaha!
It's alarming to me, really, though it shouldn't be, as I also feel insecurity often. I often feel he deserves far better than me and that I would be impossibly lucky to call him my own. I would say he is far more attractive than me too (he is), though I do modeling and acting like he does. (I'm not really a model, for the record. I do it because it enhances the acting work and nothing more. Heh.)It comes down ultimately to insecurity: Mr. Competition might be better than I am! I'll lose everything! Destroy!" :exterminate:
See above. Insecurity about self, not about you. As the INFJ matures, he can get past this. It can become a feeling of pride that one has such a wonderful prize that others are drawn to him/her.
I guess we both need to learn a bit more self-love and self-confidence. But yes, I was amazed by how he went off on his best friend because of even perceived flirting coming from him! On the one hand, it was endearing he cared so much. On the other, I wished he could just know and trust he didn't have to worry, that my eyes were only for him.
Oh go on, go on!Well, golly, [blush] don't make me sit here complimenting myself. ;-) Maybe it's that I have some modest tincture of honesty, straightforwardness, insight, sensitivity, respect . . . [rambles on and on, because in truth odinthor is kind of conceited].
Also, I'm hot.
I can see it!
As the INFP partner in an INFP/INFJ pairing, I would have said the same. Sheer magic. The vibe connection. The companionable silences. The presence of very real love and acceptance. Beautiful, knowing eyes that can read and understand without need for words. Awareness of everyone and everything around him and an eagerness (when not in competitive mode, of course, mwahaha) to take care of those around him....He's got so much good. He can be quite stubborn, a bit jealous of my friends (which I think is not terrible and can be resolved - it doesn't dominate him), and he knows just how to hurt if he feels he's been hurt and the retaliation is warranted, but good God, I can't think of anything truly bad about him. And I do miss him so much...Just want to hold him close.In truth, I can only say the vague, "It's the magic . . . the magic . . . ", on either side. It's the vibe connection.
Also, he's hottttt.
Ooh, okay! I love the imagery here.Radio-ly speaking: He sends out the right signal, I usually manage to tune in.
To be honest, I often worry if I'm sending out the right signals. You know us INFPs....we often can't gather our own thoughts and make them coherent even in our own minds. Is there anything in particular that he does/says/puts out the vibe of that makes it easier for you? This is something I am still struggling with with my INFJ. Every time I think we're on a smooth course, I suddenly get the sense that he's unsure or thrown off by something I've said or done. I know my communication needs work outside of writing (eh, even within it!), so I wonder if there is something I could focus on or lean towards to improve it. Make it clearer to an INFJ partner without creating doubts. Apologies - I know it's a tough question!
Okay - very insightful!My shortcomings are familiar to me . . . and always my first resort through their familiarity.
Another beautiful analogy, and how clearly presented! Right, the trust is key there. But oooh, I'm gushing (hello, idealism and love!!) at the thought of a relationship that protects each of its members with such assurance, grace, and love. It's wonderful to know that such a thing exists outside of the realm of dreams! That we petty humans are capable of it.I understand the dark moments. I forget if I posted this, or if I redacted it out; but, for either INFP or INFJ, sometimes the other has to not begrudge the person going into his/her dark dark cave to reflect or feel the emotion thoroughly--it's a kind of cleansing process or coming-to-a-clearer-understanding-of-self process--what the other needs to do, though, is wait patiently at the mouth of the cave, make sure the into-the-cave person can see that one is patiently and supportingly there awaiting the return, and not be intrusive. And what the cave-person needs to do upon return is to express what needs to be expressed. Obviously, both sides trusting the other facilitates the whole thing.
:heart: :heart: :heart:Patience and trust will guide one through any minefields. Well, Love too. ;-)
Argument? What's an argument? (Even with our deep emotions, we have a very calm relationship.)
I do understand what you mean, though. Especially the feeling of oppression. It feels better to get it sorted right away, right? Do you feel like either of you could be too emotional to talk in the moment, though? Although with the two of you, who obviously care about each other so much, maybe not....I always worry that I can't put my thoughts together the way I need to in the moment, and that I might react too emotionally. I'd actually much prefer to sort things out ASAP as well. I don't like letting them or the negative feelings related to the situation sit. It's too awkward and upsetting. But I keep trying to imagine how it would feel in the heat of a very hot moment! (And unfortunately, not of that kind, hahaha!)I can see that it could work for some. For me, that time of reflection would feel oppressive. I generally know exactly how I feel about something immediately (Ni is very quick with its messages in pressing circumstances), and that normally doesn't change with the passage of time (not sure if that's INFJ or just me). But I respect that others can need to take time to reflect . . . and wouldn't resent the wait . . . just anxious to get things moving along as soon as possible . . . But this situation hasn't come up with my guy.
Oh thank you, thank you...!! Is that because of my incessant rambling about this, that, and the other? Hahaha!Thanks so much! I can very much tap into what your INFJ feels for you. You're aware of what needs to be attended to, and you care enough to want to understand it all more and more. It's going to go very well. Just keep thinking: Patience, Trust, Understanding, Love. Especially the "Love" part...
May I ask you one last question? (I could go on for forever, so I'll try to keep this as the last.)
Do you ever feel like there could be a situation where your INFP partner, whether now or even before (when you were first getting to know each other), might have been too suffocating in terms of how he showed he loved you? This is another fear of mine. I don't want to play hard to get. I'm not interested in games like that. However, my INFJ is only in his mid-20's and though very mature for his age, is surely also eager for a bit more excitement in his relationships. While I used to pour affection onto him, and he'd soak it up and always return it in the ways he could (not always necessarily enough for me, but I understood he was doing what he could), I felt that we were getting very comfortable in our routine. This was actually fine for me, but I don't know if it was for him, and I started to worry that maybe I was suffocating him with all the love. I mean, we do have a Jupiter-Sun, Neptune-Sun connection. It's unavoidable, perhaps, with those three in play, hahaha. Especially as I am the Jupiter and Neptune, and he the Sun. (Neptune is going to devote heaps of love, patience, sympathy, and idealism on the Sun. Jupiter is going to want to spoil him.)
I'd be so grateful if you could let me know! This is one of my biggest issues approaching him now. While I'd love to go back to the full-blown love and affection style of before, I also know that that style was part of an overarching style that didn't work out. I'm trying to put all the pieces together to work out what needs change and what doesn't.
Thank you always for your charming, sensitive, and helpful replies!! :heart: