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I hear you. In my case, I don't think the INFP was controlling, but I do think that she isn't able to relate to certain mental states that she never experiences, and tends to interpret them based on how she would experience them. I don't think she would have maintained that I feel X unless it fundamentally affected her, which in our case it did (do I like her or do I like some other woman, that's pretty important in a romantic relationship).

Even now (we're still friends), I regularly come away from our conversations thinking "Did I feel X? Or did I feel Y? She says I felt X but ... I really can't see that ... I think I was feeling Y, which isn't something she has experienced, so maybe she simply can't see Y and interprets it as X..." Whether she is right about my feelings or I am (I am somewhat clueless in that department), it is sad to note that we keep having these arguments.

I do often wish she'd just accept how I interpret my feelings, and leave it at that, especially now that we're no longer in a romantic relationship. It feels ... tiresome to be told that I feel things I can't find in my heart V_V
That all sounds...disheartening but very familiar.

My INFP felt deeply, no one could deny that, but her feelings were self-centred. Not quite out of selfishness, but she too could not relate to situations that she hadn't experienced. For an emotional person, her form of empathy was foreign to me but not unlike the empathy I have experienced with other INFPs. I think it is perhaps it was related to her lack of Fe? She struggles to see other people's points of view, but the depth of her emotions and feelings seems to trick her into thinking she must be able understand everyone around her better than they can themselves because who knows emotions better than her?

I feel like I understand the people around me very well. But I'm not privy to every thought that they have and I don't pretend that I am. Telling anyone you understand them more than they could ever understand themselves is presumptuous and arrogant. And I've had more than one INFP allude to this towards me with their behaviour. Though admittedly, I've had ESFJs and ENFJs in my life also do the same.

When you're in a relationship with someone who feels like they need to baby your feelings, it is insulting. Having someone tell you what your own emotions means is also insulting - you don't get a free pass to say it just because you're an INFP and you embrace how emotional you are. I trust my feelings and I don't need them translated back to me by someone who does not live in my 'inner world'.

Somehow, I can't escape how what you have mentioned with your friend sounds unhealthy. I would not presume to know everything about your relationship together. But considering you suggest this happens a lot, it implies that she doesn't trust your judgement.
 

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If any of my INFJ friends see this...Recently, my INFJ has been opening up a bit more. Not a ton, mind, but definitely about more personal things he seemed afraid to open up about before. I want to tell him how much I admire his inner world, how I feel such depth within it and wish to know more of it...I don't intend to push him to talk if he doesn't want to, but I just want him to know how much I appreciate his beautiful soul.

If an INFP you cared about said such a thing to you lovely INFJs, would it be too much? Would you feel like they are prying or trying to get information out of you that you might not feel ready to give? That's precisely what I want to avoid. I want to avoid that while letting him know, "I see you. I know you've got something gorgeous in there. And I'd love to hear about it someday."

Too much?

I'll talk to him soon and really want to say this...It's constantly on my mind, how much I appreciate it. Any feedback would be awesome!
As an INFJ I’m flattered when anyone wants to understand me and know my inner world. I’m also frightened because I know I’m pretty odd. He’ll probably be nervous and happy you’re asking him questions.
The fact that you found an INFJ man is amazing because they’re only around .5%. If he’s a healthy INFJ hold onto him lol.

I agree with other posters that INFJ do have dark sides. At worst they can be lazy, unmotivated, isolated, depressed. At best they can accomplish their dreams and nurture others. Sites like Stellar Maze and C.S. Joseph may help you get a more realistic view of an INFJ. We’re not perfect, but in a good place we can provide a die for you love that’s so rare.
 

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Discussion Starter #84
As an INFJ I’m flattered when anyone wants to understand me and know my inner world. I’m also frightened because I know I’m pretty odd. He’ll probably be nervous and happy you’re asking him questions.
The fact that you found an INFJ man is amazing because they’re only around .5%. If he’s a healthy INFJ hold onto him lol.

I agree with other posters that INFJ do have dark sides. At worst they can be lazy, unmotivated, isolated, depressed. At best they can accomplish their dreams and nurture others. Sites like Stellar Maze and C.S. Joseph may help you get a more realistic view of an INFJ. We’re not perfect, but in a good place we can provide a die for you love that’s so rare.
Thank you so much for this, too! I can understand that...I respect that even more - being "odd", but I suppose you know that's very INFP, huh? HAHA! I don't know if he's completely healthy, because he does have that pent-up rage from the childhood abuse, and I know he can get very jealous...Yes on the laziness, isolation, and depression, too! Although INFPs can be like that too, for sure. However, he is also very, very good. And I'm not saying that because I'm so lovey-dovey for him and blind to his faults. I've seen his faults in action, and I know he can become like a small child when upset and hurt. It's something I understand he needs to work through because of his past. Hell, as I've had a similar past, I get it. I think that's a good thing. I sense that he feels like he'd be judged for his truth and maybe not accepted with most other people. Ironically enough, I often feel the same way. So we have each other on that. The good thing is that (or so I'm learning) if I let him "do him" when he's upset or depressed, let him be that small child and have his own time, he seems to always come back. The problem for me in the past was that I feared he was getting bored of me (we INFPs, especially the struggling ones, can even get so tired of ourselves, that if the attention from our partner wavers, it's easy for us to believe they are bored/tired of us, too). I think he got so comfy in the relationship, that he didn't feel like he needed to show it all the time, whereas I was always putting in 100% to let him know I cared. Not getting the same back hurt, kicked up my codependency issues (my own fault, not his, of course) and sometimes led to emotional miscommunication. But it helps to be aware of these things and to step back a bit and try to view it all from a more objective perspective. So working on that!

Anyway, rambling (WOW!), but while he might not be super healthy as an INFJ, I do see the potential for him to only get better and better, and I believe unbiased and nonjudgmental love and trust would help. I would also argue that I am not the healthiest INFP! But I can recognize my faults and the unhealthy coping mechanisms I learned to survive my abuse. So that being said, I feel hope, and I'd love for us to heal together, as we have the understanding of what the other went through and why we react the way we do at times. Well, I have this understanding of him. I don't know if he does of me completely, though this second time around, I want to communicate clearly so he can...

I will check out the resources you mentioned - thank you!! I'm really so grateful, and having your input gives me hope with this letter and gift and all! Excited to see him again, and I really hope my words convey my love, care, and thoughts. Thank you for the support!
 

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Sorry that I've missed a week or two of this. I unexpectedly had to keep my house from becoming Waterworld.

If any of my INFJ friends see this...Recently, my INFJ has been opening up a bit more. Not a ton, mind, but definitely about more personal things he seemed afraid to open up about before.
Excellent progress!

I want to tell him how much I admire his inner world, how I feel such depth within it and wish to know more of it...I don't intend to push him to talk if he doesn't want to, but I just want him to know how much I appreciate his beautiful soul.
You're on the right track; but if he were me, the first thing I'd think is, "Eh, she doesn't really know my inner world. How could she?" I'd suggest going the route of, "All I can see of your inner world makes me feel it has such beautiful richness, such profundity. I want to get to know it more." See the difference? You don't want us feeling alarmed and vulnerable with thoughts that you might have penetrated our inner sanctum . . . but you do want us feeling that you're intrigued by us.

If an INFP you cared about said such a thing to you lovely INFJs, would it be too much? Would you feel like they are prying or trying to get information out of you that you might not feel ready to give?
Not so much prying as rather that I had failed to keep my walls of defense in good repair. I feel complimented when people want to know me better. I feel impotent and violated if they can do so without my intentionally letting them.

That's precisely what I want to avoid. I want to avoid that while letting him know, "I see you. I know you've got something gorgeous in there. And I'd love to hear about it someday."
That's perfect!--except how about "I feel you've got something gorgeous" rather than "I know..."? Let us have the security of a little veil (even if you can really see right through it).

Too much?

I'll talk to him soon and really want to say this...It's constantly on my mind, how much I appreciate it. Any feedback would be awesome!
Best of luck!
 

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As an INFJ I’m flattered when anyone wants to understand me and know my inner world. I’m also frightened because I know I’m pretty odd. He’ll probably be nervous and happy you’re asking him questions.
The fact that you found an INFJ man is amazing because they’re only around .5%. If he’s a healthy INFJ hold onto him lol.

I agree with other posters that INFJ do have dark sides. At worst they can be lazy, unmotivated, isolated, depressed. At best they can accomplish their dreams and nurture others. Sites like Stellar Maze and C.S. Joseph may help you get a more realistic view of an INFJ. We’re not perfect, but in a good place we can provide a die for you love that’s so rare.
Thank you so much for this, too! I can understand that...I respect that even more - being "odd", but I suppose you know that's very INFP, huh? HAHA! I don't know if he's completely healthy, because he does have that pent-up rage from the childhood abuse, and I know he can get very jealous...Yes on the laziness, isolation, and depression, too! Although INFPs can be like that too, for sure. However, he is also very, very good. And I'm not saying that because I'm so lovey-dovey for him and blind to his faults. I've seen his faults in action, and I know he can become like a small child when upset and hurt. It's something I understand he needs to work through because of his past. Hell, as I've had a similar past, I get it. I think that's a good thing. I sense that he feels like he'd be judged for his truth and maybe not accepted with most other people. Ironically enough, I often feel the same way. So we have each other on that. The good thing is that (or so I'm learning) if I let him "do him" when he's upset or depressed, let him be that small child and have his own time, he seems to always come back. The problem for me in the past was that I feared he was getting bored of me (we INFPs, especially the struggling ones, can even get so tired of ourselves, that if the attention from our partner wavers, it's easy for us to believe they are bored/tired of us, too). I think he got so comfy in the relationship, that he didn't feel like he needed to show it all the time, whereas I was always putting in 100% to let him know I cared. Not getting the same back hurt, kicked up my codependency issues (my own fault, not his, of course) and sometimes led to emotional miscommunication. But it helps to be aware of these things and to step back a bit and try to view it all from a more objective perspective. So working on that!

Anyway, rambling (WOW!), but while he might not be super healthy as an INFJ, I do see the potential for him to only get better and better, and I believe unbiased and nonjudgmental love and trust would help. I would also argue that I am not the healthiest INFP! But I can recognize my faults and the unhealthy coping mechanisms I learned to survive my abuse. So that being said, I feel hope, and I'd love for us to heal together, as we have the understanding of what the other went through and why we react the way we do at times. Well, I have this understanding of him. I don't know if he does of me completely, though this second time around, I want to communicate clearly so he can...

I will check out the resources you mentioned - thank you!! I'm really so grateful, and having your input gives me hope with this letter and gift and all! Excited to see him again, and I really hope my words convey my love, care, and thoughts. Thank you for the support!
I think INFJs can have a hard time settling down because they’re so selective. Intuitives, (especially INFP’s) would stand the best chance of getting into a relationship with us.
What an INFJ is looking for is loyalty and someone that values them. Appreciation is also huge. I’ve heard it said INFJs do loyalty checks early on in relationships and though it’s not conscious I think it’s true!
Also, I think INFJ can be patient and prone to anger. It’s something that has to be worked on.
This surge of emotions is intense for a softer INFP for sure. I feel guilty at the thought of putting them (or anyone) in my line of anger. On the same note I think INFJs are over anger fast. For me mine last maybe twenty mins tops, haha. Then I act like nothing happened and the other person may be like “wait a min, I’m still upset!”
Perhaps this is because INFJs memories suck, plus we easily switch from one emotion to the next in a day.
Of course, every INFJ can vary, but I’ve talked to others who had similar experiences.
We’re future forecasters so deep down your INFJ is already pretty sure of where things will go. If he’ll tell you or not is a whole other thing. Sometimes I’ll drop little hints to tell the person if I see a future, but usually I do not. If he’s still dating you he sees some hope.
 

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I think INFJs can have a hard time settling down because they’re so selective. Intuitives, (especially INFP’s) would stand the best chance of getting into a relationship with us.
What an INFJ is looking for is loyalty and someone that values them. Appreciation is also huge. I’ve heard it said INFJs do loyalty checks early on in relationships and though it’s not conscious I think it’s true!
Also, I think INFJ can be patient and prone to anger. It’s something that has to be worked on.
This surge of emotions is intense for a softer INFP for sure. I feel guilty at the thought of putting them (or anyone) in my line of anger. On the same note I think INFJs are over anger fast. For me mine last maybe twenty mins tops, haha. Then I act like nothing happened and the other person may be like “wait a min, I’m still upset!”
Perhaps this is because INFJs memories suck, plus we easily switch from one emotion to the next in a day.
Of course, every INFJ can vary, but I’ve talked to others who had similar experiences.
We’re future forecasters so deep down your INFJ is already pretty sure of where things will go. If he’ll tell you or not is a whole other thing. Sometimes I’ll drop little hints to tell the person if I see a future, but usually I do not. If he’s still dating you he sees some hope.
Hey there, I meant to thank you for this! I appreciate such a heartfelt, in-depth reply.

As it happens, everything went to hell, but not even because of my INFJ or me. He didn't get any of the things I was giving to him, as the person I gave them to didn't pass them on to him. The result was a lot of chaos, confusion, and pain, and I've stepped away again. As much as I wanted to give this a second chance right away, it was solely because I am still madly in love with him. But it's not fair to him. I am still codependent as a result of the Narcissistic abuse I faced, and thus I think I expected too much from him. He got very comfortable in the relationship (which I am now hearing is a very INFJ thing? To get comfortable when one feels secure and therefore not show as much affection as before?)...Whereas I felt I was always putting in 100% so that he would see how much I love him on a daily basis (and to be honest, I wanted to do this, so it never felt exhausting). I didn't feel I was getting the same back, and it was just getting so, so painful. I suddenly felt like maybe he'd gotten bored and wasn't interested anymore. Add in the confusion with the gift and everything, and I realized I need to work on myself and get myself back into a place of strength and healing before I can pursue a real relationship with this beautiful soul. He might well give up on me before then, which breaks my heart and I really can't bear thinking about, but somehow I do hope he will wait. I mean, really...if I am not independent and healed, then no relationship I have could ever succeed. And this one was too precious to risk something like that.

However.
He is in terrible pain, as he also realized there was a sort of foul play involved during our time together. Not from either of us, but things outside of our control. One, the person I gave the stuff to to give to him (who has consistently actually stepped between us), and also my abuser, who was very jealous of what we had and wanted to destroy it. I can feel his pain as though it is my own, and it's almost unbearable. But I don't know what else to do. To stay and work on myself while in the relationship doesn't seem realistic. I can easily see myself falling back into the same people-pleasing patterns and expecting too much from and getting badly hurt when it doesn't happen. The process would therefore be repeated for him as well. That's not fair to anyone involved.

On the other hand, being realistic and getting to that better place of strength and healing outside of the relationship before trying to come back to it, while again realistic, is just so, so painful.

Good lord.....I'm really at a loss!

Any idea of what he might be going through right now? Since having stepped away this last time, though I told him everything about what has been going on, including about the abuse and my needing to heal from codependency issues from it, I haven't otherwise talked to him as much. It just feels too painful. I did let him know how much I love him and always will, how grateful I am for everything, for having been lucky enough to have gotten a taste of his beautiful soul...In fact, I told him I don't expect I'll ever find anything nearly as beautiful as that...And I apologized for my weakness and for expecting too much of him. I don't want him to do what I expect many INFJs do in such situations and put the blame on himself and wonder what he could have done differently...

Take care, all. Thank you for all your insights and kindness. Of course I'll check back.
 

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As it happens, everything went to hell, but not even because of my INFJ or me. He didn't get any of the things I was giving to him, as the person I gave them to didn't pass them on to him. The result was a lot of chaos, confusion, and pain, and I've stepped away again.
*
I realized I need to work on myself and get myself back into a place of strength and healing before I can pursue a real relationship with this beautiful soul. He might well give up on me before then, which breaks my heart and I really can't bear thinking about, but somehow I do hope he will wait. I mean, really...if I am not independent and healed, then no relationship I have could ever succeed. And this one was too precious to risk something like that.
*
I can feel his pain as though it is my own, and it's almost unbearable. But I don't know what else to do. To stay and work on myself while in the relationship doesn't seem realistic. I can easily see myself falling back into the same people-pleasing patterns and expecting too much from and getting badly hurt when it doesn't happen. The process would therefore be repeated for him as well. That's not fair to anyone involved.
*
On the other hand, being realistic and getting to that better place of strength and healing outside of the relationship before trying to come back to it, while again realistic, is just so, so painful.
Thank you for the update, DTsuDTsu. I always wonder how things go for people afterward, when they stop by this subforum and give us a window into their relationships. I'm so sorry there was such painful twist ahead for you. :sad: It sounds immensely complicated, and as painful as you say. But it also sounds like you are finding your path.:unsure:
 

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@DTsuDTsu. What is really coming between you? You woolens can work on themselves forever, there is always going to be one more thing to work on, and it’s my opinion that most people (if they aren’t hurtful people) actually do more growing when they have a partner. What is really holding you back?
 

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Discussion Starter #90
Thank you for the update, DTsuDTsu. I always wonder how things go for people afterward, when they stop by this subforum and give us a window into their relationships. I'm so sorry there was such painful twist ahead for you. :sad: It sounds immensely complicated, and as painful as you say. But it also sounds like you are finding your path.:unsure:
It is indeed immensely complicated, and to tell it from the beginning would take a long, long time. I can say confidently that having met him in the midst of the abuse (and having been foolish enough to introduce him to my abuser) was ultimately what brought it all crashing down. If I hadn't been so foolish, and if we'd been fortunate enough to meet at another time, I do think we would have been okay. I'm terribly sad, but I'm trying my best, as I know he will!

@DTsuDTsu. What is really coming between you? You woolens can work on themselves forever, there is always going to be one more thing to work on, and it’s my opinion that most people (if they aren’t hurtful people) actually do more growing when they have a partner. What is really holding you back?
I mentioned it above to the reply to Paper Shade, but yes, it's very, very complicated. Much of what's happened is a result of the abuse I experienced from a family member. I met him in the middle of that abuse, so he was like a bright light during it all. So started me over-idealizing him and putting him on a pedestal. It did not help that he was so good to me - so good and so caring and tried to take care of me. I got sucked into that and came to expect it from him throughout our relationship, when for him, he just got settled and comfortable in it and didn't know I needed that much affection. (I just need to note...I DID always reciprocate. I often worried I was being suffocating, because I constantly showed my affection. It was never hard or exhausting for me. I really do adore him, so it was in fact very easy.) Add to it that I was foolish enough to introduce my abuser to him, who saw what we had and jealously told me she was going to start chasing after him, too......And well, you can see how it begins to get very, very messy.

I would love to stick by him while I heal, but the problem is that even just seeing him now is painful. Because it dredges up all the pained memories that came about in this relationship. Not because of either of our faults. Again, the abuse and the abuser are the main reason for most of this. But I am also weak as a result of the abuse, and until I can heal from that, I don't think I'll be strong enough to face him or get past the pain. (For example, I can't tell you how painful it is to see the sadness in his eyes. It's unbearable. I think as an empath, I take it all into myself.)

I'm doing a horrible job of explaining this, but I feel confident that if I didn't step away, I would never heal - I would end up living for his moments of affection and feeling like dying when I cannot get them (which is unrealistic to always expect anyway, and I know this and yet can't help feeling sad nonetheless). Add to it everything the abuse and the abuser have done to stand in the way and cause hurt for both of us, and good lord, it's a walking nightmare!

I wish things were different...I really do.
 

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It is indeed immensely complicated, and to tell it from the beginning would take a long, long time. I can say confidently that having met him in the midst of the abuse (and having been foolish enough to introduce him to my abuser) was ultimately what brought it all crashing down. If I hadn't been so foolish, and if we'd been fortunate enough to meet at another time, I do think we would have been okay. I'm terribly sad, but I'm trying my best, as I know he will!



I mentioned it above to the reply to Paper Shade, but yes, it's very, very complicated. Much of what's happened is a result of the abuse I experienced from a family member. I met him in the middle of that abuse, so he was like a bright light during it all. So started me over-idealizing him and putting him on a pedestal. It did not help that he was so good to me - so good and so caring and tried to take care of me. I got sucked into that and came to expect it from him throughout our relationship, when for him, he just got settled and comfortable in it and didn't know I needed that much affection. (I just need to note...I DID always reciprocate. I often worried I was being suffocating, because I constantly showed my affection. It was never hard or exhausting for me. I really do adore him, so it was in fact very easy.) Add to it that I was foolish enough to introduce my abuser to him, who saw what we had and jealously told me she was going to start chasing after him, too......And well, you can see how it begins to get very, very messy.

I would love to stick by him while I heal, but the problem is that even just seeing him now is painful. Because it dredges up all the pained memories that came about in this relationship. Not because of either of our faults. Again, the abuse and the abuser are the main reason for most of this. But I am also weak as a result of the abuse, and until I can heal from that, I don't think I'll be strong enough to face him or get past the pain. (For example, I can't tell you how painful it is to see the sadness in his eyes. It's unbearable. I think as an empath, I take it all into myself.)

I'm doing a horrible job of explaining this, but I feel confident that if I didn't step away, I would never heal - I would end up living for his moments of affection and feeling like dying when I cannot get them (which is unrealistic to always expect anyway, and I know this and yet can't help feeling sad nonetheless). Add to it everything the abuse and the abuser have done to stand in the way and cause hurt for both of us, and good lord, it's a walking nightmare!

I wish things were different...I really do.
It's hard for me to imagine letting any of that get in my way, actually... especially if my man was hurting because of me turning away. I tend to think "How can I be the solution".

Like if you are hurting him and feeling his pain, why not alive that pain?
Why let this abuser have any power if you can help it? Isn't that almost like continuing the abuse? Why isn't love and communication the solution? Why decide avoiding the pain is more important than sharing love?
It sounds like you're building a wall made of reasons that no longer exist and can pretty much all be fixed by you.
The whole "living for his moments of affection and feeling like dying when I cannot get them" sounds a bit like the boogey man. You can handle having a life with love I would think? It's tolerable. This is not going to get fixed by living alone, I don't think.

It sounds like a lot of self-imposed road blocks. You might want to look carefully at that. Like write down each road block you are talking about and think about how you could be the solution to it?



Woolens? Lol Good job, Spellcheck.
 

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It's hard for me to imagine letting any of that get in my way, actually... especially if my man was hurting because of me turning away. I tend to think "How can I be the solution".

Like if you are hurting him and feeling his pain, why not alive that pain?
Why let this abuser have any power if you can help it? Isn't that almost like continuing the abuse? Why isn't love and communication the solution? Why decide avoiding the pain is more important than sharing love?
It sounds like you're building a wall made of reasons that no longer exist and can pretty much all be fixed by you.
The whole "living for his moments of affection and feeling like dying when I cannot get them" sounds a bit like the boogey man. You can handle having a life with love I would think? It's tolerable. This is not going to get fixed by living alone, I don't think.

It sounds like a lot of self-imposed road blocks. You might want to look carefully at that. Like write down each road block you are talking about and think about how you could be the solution to it?



Woolens? Lol Good job, Spellcheck.
No, no...I can see how what I wrote might have been confusing. When I said I'm living for his moments of affection and feeling like dying when I can't get them....That's the issue, unfortunately. He's not capable of giving the affection he used to anymore. He is (or was) very comfortable in the relationship. I also think he's a bit codependent as well. This often happens in relationships with two codependents. One will always be giving affection and needing it in return, and while the other starts off doing the same, eventually they get used to receiving it and don't return it. Then the one giving the affection feels hurt and afraid and starts to pull away to see if their partner cares about them at all to notice. Of course the other partner does, because suddenly they too are not receiving the affection they are used to. After that, they go back to how they started off, mutually affectionate. But it lasts for only a little before the cycle restarts, and I have to say...It is killer. Again, I don't think it would be as bad if not for the abuse and my abuser - and yes, I agree that I shouldn't let her have power over me, but unfortunately it is not as easy as one might want to think. I'm talking about a Narcissist-borderline-Sociopath here. This is somebody who possesses no empathy and believes she is justified and right in everything she does. She would do anything to see me miserable, and she certainly tried, which pulled both me and this guy down.

I hope that clarifies things a bit. I don't doubt there are self-imposed road blocks here, but I also know that I need to heal and become healthier for my relationships - whether this one, if I can return to it, or future ones. Currently, I am blending too deeply with my partner, losing myself in that I don't know where I end and he begins. That's another reason why this is so painful. I think it's important to be able to blend with another, but first we must also have a strong sense of self and self-worth, which I do not. This is what I hope to learn.
 
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