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Spotlight March 2016
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Searched. Did not find.

I've recently gotten more into his work, after giving him another chance after Star Dust. Mostly because my husfiend got me one of his books for my birthday, and I devoured it greedily.

I've noticed he tends towards elements of horror in his works, but I think that he does this in the direction of Ne-exploration, because this 'resonated' with me, as it were.

He's been typed as an INFJ, but I doubt it.

@arkigos: I saw that you typed his wife, Amanda Palmer, and wondered if you had an opinion. :kitteh:
 

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INFP.

Fi-dom. Ne wandering tangents during his interviews; he can't seem to give straight answers, which amuses me immensely (where do you get your ideas? -- here, and there, and everywhere, and it might happen as you are standing at the sink, washing dishes). Not HUGELY symbolic in his work like a Ni-dom, more like ... playing with concepts and seeing dual possibilities.
 

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He's definitely an Artisan. He hated restrictions/rules and preferred freedom of action, championing impulsive improvisation over structured convention.

My hunch is Promoter-Artisan (ESTP).
 

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He's definitely an Artisan. He hated restrictions/rules and preferred freedom of action, championing impulsive improvisation over structured convention.

My hunch is Promoter-Artisan (ESTP).
ESTP? Are you joking?? I've read quotes from him that when he was a kid, he would avoid social gatherings by always keeping a book with him so he could sneak off to read.

INFP :)
 

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Definitely INFP. SOOO Fi-Ne. Individualistic. Very big on encouraging people to pursue their own strange dreams. Lots of deconstructing and reconstructing and turning tropes and myths inside out and twisting them together. Tert-si sentimental attachment to things like fairytales and alice in wonderland + attention to history insofar as it intrigues him and stimulates his imagination. Enough Te to get his work done; not enough left over to bother to tame his hair or figure out how to make clear direct statements.

I met him once. No sign of Fe that I can recall.

He's the kind of INFP more INFPs would probably be if allowed to get away with it!
 

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ESTP? Are you joking?? I've read quotes from him that when he was a kid, he would avoid social gatherings by always keeping a book with him so he could sneak off to read.

INFP :)
I've read plenty of quotes from Gaiman as well, and I respectfully disagree.

On a sidenote, experience has taught me that people don't always describe themselves very well (myself included). Relying on someone's self-description can be very misleading.
 

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I've read plenty of quotes from Gaiman as well, and I respectfully disagree.

On a sidenote, experience has taught me that people don't always describe themselves very well (myself included). Relying on someone's self-description can be very misleading.
Have you seen how he interacts with his wife Amanda Palmer? I've watched a couple live streamings she's done where she is having a party and performing for friends at her apartment and Neil is there hovering around in the background looking a little awkward. He completely just took a back seat whilst his extroverted wife took the limelight. I have seen from their interactions that Amanda's extroversion helps to draw Neil out of his introverted self.
 

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Definitely INFP. SOOO Fi-Ne. Individualistic. Very big on encouraging people to pursue their own strange dreams. Lots of deconstructing and reconstructing and turning tropes and myths inside out and twisting them together. Tert-si sentimental attachment to things like fairytales and alice in wonderland + attention to history insofar as it intrigues him and stimulates his imagination. Enough Te to get his work done; not enough left over to bother to tame his hair or figure out how to make clear direct statements.

I met him once. No sign of Fe that I can recall.

He's the kind of INFP more INFPs would probably be if allowed to get away with it!
THIS.

No Fe. No Ti. No Se. No Ni. Not in his stories, not in his interviews.
 

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Searched. Did not find.

I've recently gotten more into his work, after giving him another chance after Star Dust. Mostly because my husfiend got me one of his books for my birthday, and I devoured it greedily.

I've noticed he tends towards elements of horror in his works, but I think that he does this in the direction of Ne-exploration, because this 'resonated' with me, as it were.

He's been typed as an INFJ, but I doubt it.

@arkigos: I saw that you typed his wife, Amanda Palmer, and wondered if you had an opinion. :kitteh:
I had him typed INFP from long ago.

However, he sometimes strikes me as Fe-ish.

I still type him INFP but, by god, I have my eye on him.



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((I think what I will ultimately discover is that in such a mature person there can be a greater expressiveness and cheesy cheek-pinchiness in an INFP... but I have yet to vet that particular supposition... and, so, he must be an INFP but ... sometimes he makes me wonder))

Introvert, obviously.
Feeler, obviously.
Certainly an Ne/Si rather than Ni/Se.
Not nearly twisted up enough to be what I see as a clear cut Fi-dom - nor stupidly objective enough with logic to be a clear-cut Te inferior. Has he just transcended? Is this the vision of a truly mature Fi-dom? Or is he an Fe Ti.. or, what?. A man cannot tell. He is on my list for auditing.
 

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Spotlight March 2016
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I had him typed INFP from long ago.

However, he sometimes strikes me as Fe-ish.

I still type him INFP but, by god, I have my eye on him.



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((I think what I will ultimately discover is that in such a mature person there can be a greater expressiveness and cheesy cheek-pinchiness in an INFP... but I have yet to vet that particular supposition... and, so, he must be an INFP but ... sometimes he makes me wonder))

Introvert, obviously.
Feeler, obviously.
Certainly an Ne/Si rather than Ni/Se.
Not nearly twisted up enough to be what I see as a clear cut Fi-dom - nor stupidly objective enough with logic to be a clear-cut Te inferior. Has he just transcended? Is this the vision of a truly mature Fi-dom? Or is he an Fe Ti.. or, what?. A man cannot tell. He is on my list for auditing.
Yes, this was precisely my dilemma as well. He is somehow 'outside'. He isn't like any INFP that I've ever seen, and my mom is probably around his age (A few years older), but she is still 'immature' as an INFP. She is so... Accepting without deliberation. Prone to a cult-like devotion to non-fact.

She's mellowed in her own way, but she hasn't reached any degree of sagacity that he has seemed to. (Though she certainly acts like it.)

Nevertheless, everyone is an individual within type, and he's been a journalist, he's seen things and been around different places.

That said, I somehow don't detect that Fi domination, and Te yearning shown within such a type. I could swear he's Fe-Ti in some form or another. If he is somehow a thinker, it wouldn't surprise me.

But, I enjoy his talks immensely, regardless of what type he is, and his writing is inspired. Well, some of it. I've read, 'Ocean at the end of the lane', the first two volumes of 'The Sandman', and 'Coraline'.

I enjoyed 'Star Dust' far more as a film, with all of the changes that came with it, than the book. I was dissatisfied with the book.
 

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I had him typed INFP from long ago.

However, he sometimes strikes me as Fe-ish.

I still type him INFP but, by god, I have my eye on him.



-----

((I think what I will ultimately discover is that in such a mature person there can be a greater expressiveness and cheesy cheek-pinchiness in an INFP... but I have yet to vet that particular supposition... and, so, he must be an INFP but ... sometimes he makes me wonder))

Introvert, obviously.
Feeler, obviously.
Certainly an Ne/Si rather than Ni/Se.
Not nearly twisted up enough to be what I see as a clear cut Fi-dom - nor stupidly objective enough with logic to be a clear-cut Te inferior. Has he just transcended? Is this the vision of a truly mature Fi-dom? Or is he an Fe Ti.. or, what?. A man cannot tell. He is on my list for auditing.
"not nearly twisted up enough?" what does that mean? :confused:
 
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"not nearly twisted up enough?" what does that mean? :confused:
Ji tends to twist itself up... to deepen, but also to complexify.. and in the case of Fi, to ruminate and wallow.

When a moral or value conundrum presents itself, an Fe can just bounce it right back with a strident and objective aire... but Fi has to pull it in, to push all the way to the bottom of it, to abstract it, detach it, unravel it, wrestle with it even if the situation doesn't require such a wrestle.

As a result, Fi types seem quite, well..... twisted up. To any Ji-dom you'd likely find yourself saying, "Man, you gotta get of your own head before you implode."

His wife is a great example of this. She is an extravert, and he an introvert, so you'd imagine the one all twisted up and stuck in their own head would be HIM, but actually, it is her. This would indicate that she is leaning on Ji (Fi in her case)... and he isn't (which would strongly imply that he is an Fe).

So, either he is somehow transcendentally mature, or he isn't an Fi.

Here is Amanda being 'twisted up' in an Fi fashion, despite being an extravert:

 

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Ji tends to twist itself up... to deepen, but also to complexify.. and in the case of Fi, to ruminate and wallow.

When a moral or value conundrum presents itself, an Fe can just bounce it right back with a strident and objective aire... but Fi has to pull it in, to push all the way to the bottom of it, to abstract it, detach it, unravel it, wrestle with it even if the situation doesn't require such a wrestle.

As a result, Fi types seem quite, well..... twisted up. To any Ji-dom you'd likely find yourself saying, "Man, you gotta get of your own head before you implode."

His wife is a great example of this. She is an extravert, and he an introvert, so you'd imagine the one all twisted up and stuck in their own head would be HIM, but actually, it is her. This would indicate that she is leaning on Ji (Fi in her case)... and he isn't (which would strongly imply that he is an Fe).

So, either he is somehow transcendentally mature, or he isn't an Fi.

Here is Amanda being 'twisted up' in an Fi fashion, despite being an extravert:

I see what you mean now. Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

This video strikes me more as an example of someone being stuck in a function-loop, or perhaps a sign of someone being in the grip of an inferior function.

I think you are operating on an incomplete conception of what Fi-doms are like. What you describe strikes me as unhealthy, or at least immature behavior: people failing to properly process emotions, rather than an INFP that is utilizing all of their functions (Ne and Te get a person out of their head and allow Fi to evolve with new ideas, information, and insights). The higher in the function stack, the more efficient the process should be, therefore mature Fi-doms should be better at processing emotions than the average person, not worse. Yes we do have to take moral conundrums in and take it apart. But we aren't doing that all the time. And the older you get the faster this process becomes. One reason is because, especially in the case of Ne, you've probably already thought about it before. Mature Fi-doms can go about their day doing this, with their mind works beneath the surface.

Gaiman's values are Fi values. They direct him. The fact that his emotions don't consume him doesn't change the fact that he is guided by feelings: he pursued becoming a writer not because of some sense of a higher calling or to reach a large audience, but because that is what he wanted to do. And why should this feelings consume him? He is living authentically by pursuing his desire to write and make art. Look at how he exhorts the individuals in the audience to keep making good art when things go wrong. Not for other people, but because that is what will allow them to keep moving forward. He is more concerned with individuals being true to themselves than he is with them contributing to "the greater good". Even though he is addressing a large audience, he is still speaking as if talking to another individual. He empathizes with any struggles they may face without taking that emotion as his own. I'm sorry, I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I can't seem to see anything but Fi-Ne. Individualism can come from Ni or Ti (and perhaps Si?), but I think he is clearly a feeler and he doesn't express any sense of a higher purpose or larger vision as Nis do (also his writing is so Ne: Sandman is an Ne playground).

Your use of Ji makes me wonder: are you using socionics definitions? Because I can't relate to socionics' definition of Fi (at least none that I have read). And I've seen other MBTI INFPs express a similar difficulty connecting with socionics' purported equivalent INFj. I don't know if that is an issue we're having here?
 

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Spotlight March 2016
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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
@arkigos:

Hmm... I don't see him as an extrovert, either. He seems directed inwards, certainly.

I'm considering-- And to be honest, have been considering all of this time, that he may be Si-Fe. Or even Si-Te. I lean the former.

There is something distinctly Si about him, especially his, "The Ocean at the End of the Lane."

Perhaps it's the same kind of Si-Fe-Ti play that I've seen in Lisa Hannigan (The singer's) work. This dreamy, memory-driven, playful dance with prose.

His advice to writers is also very distinctly Si-- "Just start writing until it ends." Sort of thing. (I'm paraphrasing, of course.)

I could see Si as being a minor influence-- As tertiary. But, somehow it seems to dominate him as a person. He is unruffled and calm, as I've seen other Si-driven individuals. He has the certainty and calmness that Ne-egos markedly lack.

Does this make sense, or am I slightly insane?

Is it yet another Si-fantasy-writer? Or am I grasping at straws?

To be honest, his work on Sandman made me slightly doubt it-- And see exactly where people are reading him as Ni. But, at the same time, all of his works are derivative in a lot of ways. A lot of what could be mistaken as Ne-borrowing. Perhaps it's actually Si-cataloguing.

Just some thoughts.
 

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The internet ate my reply when I tried to edit it. This saddens me.


Here is an abbreviated version, @fair phantom. First, here is an interview I posted showing how INFPs act... in particular how un-effulgent, ruminating, un-extraverted their Feeling is.. and what you see is mostly a sort of soft Te soaked with implicit Fi:


This is the stick I am measuring Neil against... and ultimately I find him too Fe-ish. Man, I am displeased by the destruction of my post. I am fully wroth.


Also, no, I am not speaking from a point of Socionics, but Jung... which I suspect is not true of you, and that your view of the functions is primarily derived from the MBTI-esque versions, rather than the more Jungian ones I try to emulate.

For example, here is Jung's first lines on Fi:

The proverb 'Still waters run deep' is very true of such women. They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and not infrequently their temperament is melancholic. They neither shine nor reveal themselves. Since they submit the control of their lives to their subjectively orientated feeling, their true motives generally remain concealed. Their outward demeanour is harmonious and inconspicuous; they reveal a delightful repose, a sympathetic parallelism, which has no desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way. Should this outer side be somewhat emphasized, a suspicion of neglectfulness and coldness may easily obtrude itself, which not seldom increases to a real indifference for the comfort and well-being of others.
Which Neil seems to violate. I could be wrong, and rather hope to be.
 

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I've only read The Ocean at the End of the Lane, and that book is one of the most INFP books I've ever read, perhaps except the Neverending Story by Michael Ende. Judging from his book, I would say Neil Gaiman is the typical INFP, but I haven't explored his personality or watched any videos of him yet, so I wouldn't say I know better than anyone who has tried to explore him.
 

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@arkigos

You realize you are trying to tell INFP how INFPs are, right? ;)

Honestly I could only get through a couple of minutes through that video. Soft Te is right. Sorry, but not all INFPs talk like that.

A person who pays attention (or who interacts with high-Fe users) will learn that if you want to communicate effectively, it is a good idea to emote.* Also if one is used to putting thoughts in to words, not as songs, but as one does in journalism, essays, blog posts—as Neil Gaiman is—then they are going to be better about using Te.

And you are comparing a speech with an interview—something prepared with something on the spot!

Neil Gaiman has written on his blog about how he made an effort to get good at readings because he thinks they are important (I wish I could find the post, I may update with a link to it later). Giving a speech is much like that. When giving a speech one doesn't stand there ruminating on the stage; the ruminating was all done beforehand (it is also a good idea to do this when you prepare for an interview, but clearly not everyone does).

That said, Neil isn't always so prepared:


*And actually if Ne is activated the face usually becomes more animated. I can conceal just about any emotion except enthusiasm
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That said, Neil isn't always so prepared:

This seems more Fe to me than Fi. Sure, glimmers of Ne could be there too, but... Not dominating this personality.

The way I see it, Ne doesn't really generate enthusiasm. It generates interest, and ideas, and it can seem to be all caught up in them, unfocused and scattered. And there is certainly enthusiasm of a kind, but not the sort that catches others and reels them in to 'share' it with them.

What I see as generating enthusiasm in that way? Fe. Definitely. And, in fact, Socionics describes Fe as being the 'enthusiasm generating' function, among other things. And that's an excellent way of looking at Fe.

Fe put to the extreme in this video, as an exaggerated example:

 

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The internet ate my reply when I tried to edit it. This saddens me.


Here is an abbreviated version, @fair phantom. First, here is an interview I posted showing how INFPs act... in particular how un-effulgent, ruminating, un-extraverted their Feeling is.. and what you see is mostly a sort of soft Te soaked with implicit Fi:


This is the stick I am measuring Neil against... and ultimately I find him too Fe-ish. Man, I am displeased by the destruction of my post. I am fully wroth.


Also, no, I am not speaking from a point of Socionics, but Jung... which I suspect is not true of you, and that your view of the functions is primarily derived from the MBTI-esque versions, rather than the more Jungian ones I try to emulate.

For example, here is Jung's first lines on Fi:



Which Neil seems to violate. I could be wrong, and rather hope to be.
So if a person is not always acting within that very narrow definition then they can't be Fi?

Well this is vexing. I have no type! :laughing:
 
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