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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is something I've been thinking for a while.

I (INFJ, 4w3) come to this forum and always think "wow, the label dreamer is kind of ridiculous". The label just makes me feel like this. Small, ridiculous, and kind of pathetic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the label is inaccurate. I think "dreamer" suits NF better than it suits NT, SJ or SP.

But think about it. You are a "dreamer".
There are tough hardasses out there. Realists. You are just a weak-ass unrealistic dreamer. Ineffective and effete. It basically says you live with your head in the clouds.

How do you feel about this?
 
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I really like it. I don't think it is weak or small to dream. I understand that one might internalise that idea from people who don't see the benefit of dreaming, but we ought to wear the epithet with pride I think, hold our heads high.

I am thinking both about valuing the non-material, and the not productive, as well as seeing the need for dreaming to ever make something new. First you dream it, then it becomes real(you or someone/many inspired make it real). Otherwise the real just keeps going in its old tracks or we are swept along with the streams that hit us.

So I think dreams can be creative, but also just for enjoyment, and that that is worth something in itself, doesn't have to always lead on to... I don't know what? accumulation? refinement?

To be a dreamer can be to be strong and fierce enough to keep striving for more, despite objections, and to reach into new territory without fear, to simulate experiences and to create the manuscripts and blueprints for things to be realised later.
It doesn't have to be all that, it can be much simpler and mostly for oneself, or even getting stuck and become negative. But it can be.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I really like it. I don't think it is weak or small to dream. I understand that one might internalise that idea from people who don't see the benefit of dreaming, but we ought to wear the epithet with pride I think, hold our heads high.

I am thinking both about valuing the non-material, and the not productive, as well as seeing the need for dreaming to ever make something new. First you dream it, then it becomes real(you or someone/many inspired make it real). Otherwise the real just keeps going in its old tracks or we are swept along with the streams that hit us.

So I think dreams can be creative, but also just for enjoyment, and that that is worth something in itself, doesn't have to always lead on to... I don't know what? accumulation? refinement?

To be a dreamer can be to be strong and fierce enough to keep striving for more, despite objections, and to reach into new territory without fear, to simulate experiences and to create the manuscripts and blueprints for things to be realised later.
It doesn't have to be all that, it can be much simpler and mostly for oneself, or even getting stuck and become negative. But it can be.
Thanks for sharing the perspective. I like it.
 

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I don’t mind the dreamer stereotype- however I don’t feel close to the Keirsey’s NF stereotype. I can relate to being an NP type not much NF .


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Discussion Starter #6
I take being called a "dreamer" as a compliment.
How's it a compliment to you, exactly? Do you think being called a "dreamer" is more flattering than being labelled one of the "intellects"? Keirsey acts like all NTs are geniuses. Being called a "dreamer" or (gasp) a "guardian" sound like very modest compliments compared to being called a "intellect".
 

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How's it a compliment to you, exactly? Do you think being called a "dreamer" is more flattering than being labeled one of the "intellects"? Keirsey acts like all NTs are geniuses. Being called a "dreamer" or (gasp) a "guardian" sounds like very modest compliments compared to being called an "intellect".
Intellect by itself is fairly useless. With intellect, one may be easily able to accumulate knowledge, but it is far more useful to be able to apply that knowledge and render good judgment (wisdom). Being called an intellect would be a nice compliment, but not as high as the value you assign to it.

Being called a dreamer signifies that this person may be to a degree out of touch with reality. Is that so bad? This world is rife with injustices and suffering, being a bit more detached allows room for optimism and being content with the blessings available. Dreamers can imagine the world, not as it is now, but as it could be— full of the marvelous prose they might talk or write about. Dream hard enough, and that hope turns to motivation to seek changes in our current reality.

Sadly, some turn to madness. They can become let down with being unable to actualize their expectations, become disillusioned, or become unable to avoid bleak outlooks. I do not blame them for trying, better to have tried than to not try and fail. Lift them up, and again they can share their dreams once more.

As for me, I will place the value on the dreams.
 

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I like it, actually. Whether it's positive or negative depends on the nature of the dream. Rejuvenation of societies stems in dreams to an extent. As do poetry, novels, science-fiction. Sense of humor, too ! (at least some subspecies of it). And being "a dreamer" (or labelled as such) and a realistic thinker are not mutually exclusive statements. In fact INFJs are considered both :)
 

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To me being called a dreamer is empowering. I think a lot of people would look down upon something like that thinking it only means your head is in the clouds and that you can do little with dreams. But that feels restricting! Dreaming is a rare power people forget and dismiss, when it should be complimented.
Dreams can change the world and they have! I mean that's were ideas come from, your dreams. And once you have them you can act on them and make something beautiful! So I'm proud to be a dreamer, despite what the world says.
 

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I'm not an NF, I'm an NT. I don't see it as insulting. I think "dreamer" means a person is imaginative, fun loving, and enthusiastic. I like genuinely like these attributes.

TBH, I consider myself a bit more of a dreamer than I am a rational at times.
 
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