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Discussion Starter #1
Shout out to them Ni peeps @Turi @Squirt @brightflashes ("Turi Squirts Bright flashes of light as his defense mechanism" was the first thing I thought of when having these names together).

The idea started at the thread: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/1169297-ne-explained-ni-doms.html

Let's take an object and use our imagination to see where it leads. Then we'll compare where our final thoughts came from and how they got there and where they want to go next.
This will help us see the creative differences between Ni and Ne when in action.

In the original post, this was limited to a lame Stop sign but @Squirt did a really good job at displaying what we're looking for here:
My first impulse was to go back and read the instructions (INTJ 4Lyfe). Then my second thought was to draw a stop sign, and then see what happens with that. I drew one, but misspelled stop, and then drew 'Go' and 'Oh no' around it to form geometric shapes that were hard to identify as words unless inspected. From there, I wanted to refine the sketch into an actual drawing, but didn't care about it enough to actually do it. From there I'd try a new approach, until I hit something I liked enough to refine. It is quite linear, and I settled and stuck with drawing pretty much immediately.

Ne, what are your approaches here? This is supposed to be an Ne thread, you sneaky ANAXEL.
Also, I think you're beautiful and dream of you constantly
(ignore that last part)

With that example, I thought I'd add a few other factors.

The first object is subjected to a peculiar condition: A potato that is in growth to become a human being.

The second is two objects without any context: A rock and cloud.

Have fun!
 

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For the first object the end of my train of thought led to the image I attached below.

Potatoes that are growing up to become human-> people that primarily subsist of potatoes -> Russians -> potato vodka

Then I thought about how I'm sort of confused as to how you intended that prompt to be used and if you wanted it to be used in conjunction with the original prompt of stop sign.

The universal sign for stop is the flat hand out sign like talk to the hand. And that is a famous image that plays on the stereotype that Russians like to drink. So I ended here for now.


Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

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Plague Doctor
INTJ, 5w4, Ni-T type
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Ni dom/Se inferior

Rocks used to be considered vessels that held the memory of one's spirit. That's where tombstones came from, according to some tribes in Central and South America. When I think of a rock, I think of a lasting, immovable, solid, symbol. I think of the symbol of a rock and liken it to the egg and the womb. I see how a rock can be transformative and steadfast.

The Cloud, on the other hand, is also ethereal and brings to mind the spirit and transformation as well. A cloud is also part of the water cycle. The cloud holds the potential for life. It's nurturing, yielding, wispy, non-solid, unsubstantial, yet important. It symbolizes prosperity and good things to come when it bursts and rains.

I think about how the life cycle seems embedded in all things natural, how powerful subtle glimpses of nature are and how much culture, history, and religion can be associated with these things. Rock reminds us to never forget and cloud reminds us that everything we experience is transient.

- - - - - - - - - -

(The first object is more like a story to me and I want to know what the next part is going to be, but I have very little to no experience with potato people, so I'll just leave it as it is)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
For the first object the end of my train of thought led to the image I attached below.

Potatoes that are growing up to become human-> people that primarily subsist of potatoes -> Russians -> potato vodka
This is how movie plots happen...
Potato Vodka could be one heck of a spy film featuring mad scientists who are trying to grow people out of potatoes.
It could also be a scary philosophical film.

EDIT: I feel like changing my user name to Potato Vodka
 

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Ok if were comparing the first and second factor together.

The potato that turns into a human is due to the rock containing radioactive material. The rock causes the potato to become mutated and have unsual features. The rain from the clouds helps the potato grow. The radioactive material in the rock starts shaping the potato and causes it to become conscious and gain super intelligence. The potato through it's powers gain intense strength and super powers to transform. The potato is now able to transform into a human being thanks to the radioactive material from the rock and clouds constantly rain to sustain the growth of the super power potato that's able to turn human.

I'm an ISFP btw, so Ni is only my tertiary function.
 

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Well, I just so happened to be drawing at the time so, yeah I'll show you my quick doodles.

I'll do my best to reenact my trail of thought.

Stop sign:

Well that's a boring subject... Maybe there's something next to the sign? But then the sign isn't the center focus... Someone holding the sign? [Suddenly hit by memories of Mad Max, Tank Girl, Moebius] Cool, so random post-apocalyptic dude with the sign. [Starts drawing, for done reason the theme Australia won't leave me head, I blame Mad Max... Realise I'm sub-consciously drawing Junkrat from Overwatch, whoops, try and change that to something that isn't a direct rip off.] Wait, is a stop sign hexagonal? [Googles] Yep, it is, good, my memory hasn't completely failed me... But why is he holding the sign? Maybe it could do some serious damage... Or it'd be useless... Let's make it more of a makeshift weapon. [Adds blood and barbed wire to the sign]

Potato:

Slowly turning into a human... slow... Maybe it's struggling? Only partially there? I mean changing into a human must be particularly difficult for a potato. But the poor thing is trying, give it some credit, I'd like to see you try and turn into a human if you were a potato [Immediately has a simple image of said potato with a little hand sticking out and a concentrating face.] Kinda looks like Deadpool baby hand. Wait, where did I get the word 'slow' from? Eh, whatever.

Rock and cloud:

Can't think of anything for a cloud. I could make the cloud an interesting shape? Nah, too convoluted, it won't be recognisable as a cloud, just keep it simple. Won't be much interesting by itself... It works with the rock image. [Looks up from sketch pad. I'm sitting on a beach in Thailand. I've been surrounded by these magnificent jagged islands jutting out of the ocean all week. I might not be looking at one now but the inspiration seems obvious.] Not particularly imaginative but hey, when you are bombarded with beauty it doesn't have to be. Not everything that comes out of a Ne brain is weird anyway.
 

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Potato becoming a human being: Firstly, I always have to read potato in an Irish accent in my head. Secondly, I literally thought about a human sprouting out of the ground from a potato. Then it reminded me of mandrakes from Harry Potter because they kind of look like potatoes in the shape of a human baby. Then I realized that maybe that's the reason why mandrakes cry so loud when you pull them out of the earth because it's like they were being pulled from mother earth's womb and what baby doesn't cry when it's coming into the world? Then I thought about how some people (including me) are couch potatoes and still haven't figured out how to become real people.

A rock and cloud: I tried to think about how they were similar and came up with clouds are to the sky as rocks are to the earth. Clouds are more condensed sky and rocks are more condensed earth. There are also different types of clouds depending on how wind currents shape them and there are different types of rocks depending on how water and lava currents shape them.
 

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[Stop]

Why is there a stop sign in my path? Does this path lead to a secret military base where they conduct illegal experiments aimed at producing new biological weapons? If so, it would be great to know what exactly is happening at that base. It doesn't mean I'll necessarily share my knowledge with the rest of the world. I'd probably put my life at risk for doing that. But it's always best to know more than less, to be over-prepared than under-prepared for the future.

Damn, I always wish I'd been the child of an intelligence agency director. Imagine all that legacy in spying. If I'd inherit his position, I could probably send agents into every corner of the world and know absolutely everything. There would be no stop signs in my life. There would be no biological weapons that would be made without my knowledge.

[A potato that is in growth to become a human being.]

If that potato had human consciousness, then it would realize how dumb of an idea it is to actually become a human being. The human-potato would never fit in. Would attract way too much attention, likely negative. Become a circus-freak. It would never be given enough peace and alone time to plot its conspiracy to overthrow normie humans and install a potato dictatorship. If you want to succeed in life, you need to know how to stay in the shadows. Potatos can't do that.

Moreover. If the potato-human would ever get hungry, he might accidentally eat himself. Especially under stress.

[A rock and cloud]

The rock and the cloud resemble each other in form. Both look like lumps of physical matter. But they're the exact opposite on the inside. You can land on one, and you'll definitely fall through the other. It is said that opposites attract, but they're wrong. Have you ever seen a rock flying towards a cloud? I didn't. They were never meant to be. Rocks are rigid, mostly unchangable, therefore reliable and loyal. Although still heavy and pretty useless. Clouds are megalomaniacs, always large, constantly changing, can never be relied upon. But most of the time pretend to be innocent.

Request: please identify my type based on what I wrote. Am I Ne or Ni?
 

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Stop sign: just a traffic stop sign. It tells you when to stop and check for traffic. It’s important to driving safety.

Potato trying to become human: you poor little potato. You try so hard to grow into the human you were not originally meant to be. This immediately makes me think of how we all start as potatoes. With enough care, determination and love, we can finally grow into a real human, which is growing into the best being we can and learning to love ourselves and others.

Rock: my mind goes to the earth’s composition. There are layers upon layers of rock, that lead to the molten lava core, which is like the nucleus of the planet. Above it is the atmosphere and beyond earth are all the other planets in the solar system. Beyond the Milky Way are countless other galaxies, so mysterious and we’ll never be able to understand the vastness of it all.

Cloud: tiny droplets of water that make a whole shape, that our eyes trick us into seeing as a solid object. On a sunny day, it looks as if there could be a Kingdom with a castle sitting right on top of the clouds, and if you looked hard enough, you might be able to spot it.
 

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oh man,

MENTAL BLOCK

D:

i'm not really thinking much cos they're just so MEH!
my first instinct was to think 'why is it growing into a human, i need to figure out why and how'
then i got bored and it felt forced so i stopped.
 

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A stop sign? Who are you to tell me what to do or where to stop. So I am just gonna have to punch it repeatedly. Fuck me, I just realized that I actually had to stop to do that, thus the stop sign won. Way to fail...

So Mr Potato Head is real? I knew it! I don't have a clue what he has to do with the stop sign. Maybe he was watching me go crazy on an inanimate object and he is now being all judgmental about it. Whatever, I never liked you Mr Potato Head.
 

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oh man,

MENTAL BLOCK

D:

i'm not really thinking much cos they're just so MEH!
my first instinct was to think 'why is it growing into a human, i need to figure out why and how'
then i got bored and it felt forced so i stopped.
That's because with Ne, if there are no possibilities to be explored that are interesting, it's just will drop that subject cold bloodedly like Jung said and chase after more interesting things.

Like "snap travel". I like the idea of teleportation not because of what it is but because of how it could change everything and all the possibilities that flood my mind thinking of those things... Have you ever wondered what would happen if teleportation was invented by some random dude not connected to anybody and then it caught on like the internet did? The government and powers that be couldn't control it fast enough - regulation couldn't occur to match the pace of the the people who caught on to it. Now that I like to think about for fun. I imagine the world that we know would just be completely shaken.

Like, I wonder if teleportation did happen, would the person who discovered it come up with some front? Like be the owner of a yoga place where people would come to do yoga but really you could teleport to anywhere you wanted - for a price? Black market stuff.

I wonder about all the nations and how they'd freak out over borders and national security and whatnot. But also, what a great thing. Seriously, if that actually happened someday? I like the idea of having no boundaries and being able to freely travel anywhere. The world would vastly widen. So many stories could be swapped and shared between peoples... I like to think about human nature and how our tendency to hoard power and be greedy would poison such a neat scientific discovery, but how beautiful it could be if only we could get over that.

Now that is interesting and fun and I could think of so many different ideas.

But rocks and clouds... It's not like I don't like them, but legit anyone could imagine something having to do with rocks and clouds. The thing is, all those ideas don't carry potential to me so they're not interesting. Potatoes becoming human sounds kind of ridiculous even though it might be fun to imagine what that's like from the potato's perspective. I mean, at least the potato has potential to become something - it just, like you say, feels forced. Heck, we already know what the potato is becoming. It would be cooler to wonder about a place where potatoes became humans. You know, give it as sci-fi twist? o_O But that idea... doesn't interest me all that much. It doesn't hold much.

Ne is not just the "imagine a scenario" function. Also, everyone can do word association things, which is essentially what you're doing when you mention rocks and stones. Like I might associate rocks with "hardness" and then amuse myself by thinking about things that remind me of hardness. Maybe a person, maybe an event. Whatever. But Ne likes to push the world to the edge, wants things to move and change... and is fascinated with these things in the external world. Just not sensory things, but potentials. Rocks and stones don't hold much for me, tbh.

Sometimes puddles do when I'm feeling storybookish because I can imagine the reflections are portals into another world - and another world is a heck of a lot to wonder about. Rocks and stones could be interesting to think about if some concept somehow reminded me of rocks and stones and I connected those things together. But the sensory things in and of themselves don't interest me a bit. I don't like thinking of rocks and stones.

Haha. Sometimes when I'm wondering about things in a fantasy childlike way, I'll be walking down some path near a river. I'll see all these little toads jumping to cross the path and go down to the river... I imagine a secret life of toads where they're actually intelligent and have their own community and meet at dusk on the riverbank to tell the tales of their day... maybe a young toad's first visit to the riverbank meeting is a big deal... I start to image all the ways it could be like... Although it's fantasy-ish and childish, for a little it seems just a bit possible and I chase it for fun.

... But like, stop signs? Unless I am to ponder to idea of them or something makes me think of the idea of them and it fills my head with even more.
 

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1. If we have a potato that becomes a human, we can easily colonize other planets by planting them.
I thought of the movie The Martian but instead of food we grow humans. And then more humans.

2. A rock and a cloud are two things that I have no use for. But they can take the same shape and look alike.
 

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Ooh this sounds fun. Fair warning, I just went with this and tried not to edit the final product so I could should the thought progress of Ne

Stop Sign:
I didn't see this as a prompt, but everyone's writing about it. I don't know what to think of a stop sign though, its sort of just there. It has a given purpose, there's really not that many other relevant possibilities to it.

Potato To Human:
Reminds me of a story I tried to write to prove to my English teacher round characters could turn into flat characters, except mine was the other way around. The way I think of it, this progression can happen in a couple of ways. In the first scenario, since a potato is a root, from the eyes of the potato sprout more root bits, one root bit for each of the major appendages of a human. The roots grow and expand until they reach the size of a regular human. While the potato would gain understanding and the capabilities of a human, it'd still be a human, just made of potato. I call him starch man and he becomes a super hero who, since he is a potato, has the special ability to regenerate limbs and confuse the hell out of people. In the second scenario, you plant the potato in the ground and it begins to grow. Instead of vines and leaves it grows muscle fibers and veins which sprout out of the ground and eventually intertwine in order to become a fleshy human.

Cloud and Rock:
This one incited less weird thoughts. I thought of a rock floating and a sinking cloud initially, but then just remembered hail.
 

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The first object is subjected to a peculiar condition: A potato that is in growth to become a human being.

my initial thought is that this seems geared towards Ne cause who else would bother imagining this. my next thought is that this sounds like a plot to a terrible movie.

The second is two objects without any context: A rock and cloud.

my first thought is the juxtaposition of ground & sky. [i love juxtapositions]

another thought that just popped up is a rock and a cloud seems like a metaphor from rags to riches. the rock being hard and tough and at the lowest of the low [a rock in a hard place] through life and hard work transcends to a cloud in the sky, light, airy and clean without a care in the world [on cloud nine].
 

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being an Ni dominant and looking at the Ne user responses reinforces the theory that your 5th function is the ignoring function because even though I might get a quick thought that is Ne in nature I will instinctively shut it down or ignore it for something more symbolic instead.

no offense to any Ne users you guys are highly entertaining.
 

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Stop Sign: I picture myself standing directly below it (it's a traffic stop sign in my head btw, not a hand in a "stop" position), I suppose this is due to stop signs being taller than me, or I could completely mangle this into some way that it is representative of authority attempting to stand over me. Stop signs might as well be a give way sign to me, they don't mean anything, I don't slow down for 3 seconds - if it's safe to go, I'm gone.

Who says I actually have to stop? Is the stop sign at an intersection, or is it someones front yard as a joke? I mean for all I know it's in a video game.


Potato To Human: Pictured some little potato guy, not Mr. Potatohead - looks more realistic and the face is more like Mr. Meeseeks. Must be some dodgy science experiment I suppose. I know a couple of people who must have begun life as potatoes. Not much springing to mind, all I know is that if he grows up, reality is going to peel him, slice him to pieces and fry him real good next to some fat guys Big Mac.

Cloud and Rock: First thing I thought of, was of a dark, grey, cloudy, windy day out at the beach - tide's way out, can see all the rock formations that are usually underwater, as well as all the pebbly rocks that line the shore - the clouds are coming in pretty hard and fast.
The rocks might be representative of stability, life, the quiet things that no one ever changes, and the clouds representative of some kind of imminent danger that's about to roll over what's generally been my steady life, i.e losing my job, or the issues revolving around my favourite band (though this has already happened).. hm.

Saddest part of the image, is I can see myself on the beach in third person, and I'm not with my wife or my daughter.. probably need to sort out some things to make sure this doesn't become a reality.

Or could it be that whatever danger is on it's way, is something I need to face alone.
Why are the clouds even representative of danger, I love dark cloudy days, love storms, love wild weather - maybe it's a good thing that'll be passing over me soon. Doesn't feel particularly ominous. Might even be representative then, of me landing a better job in the near future.

I've learnt that if it is something good, then I'll need some way to catch it, because this shit never just falls into my hands, need to actually do something about and make it happen.

Might jump on some jobsearch websites now and see if there's something decent I can apply for before heading out to work.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
SO, guys, what I'm seeing so far is that there's a lot of effort being made for something that is actually limiting what we're capable of.
I'm seeing some beautiful stuff here.
A stop sign is probably the worst object to work with. It's a finished product, thought was already put into it, any possible use has been given to it... or has it?

Let's simplify this and focus on a goal: Let's revolutionize the boring, bland Stop Sign.

In my case, here's what my Ne has done so far:

I get desperate to use it for something else and ignore the obvious things that come to mind: A stop sign can be personified, it could look like a person, it can be used as a weapon, it can have a grandiose meaning hidden behind its trivial meaning, it could be a graffiti station for gang to mark their territory. Boring, boring, boring!
My memory is fully engaged more that anything else because I've seen stop signs so many times.
But my memory, I notice, is attracted to a concept about stop signs: Talking to them.

THIS is the first thing that came to mind:

Maybe it was my Si, but I picked up on an impression.
I thought that he was really uncomfortable the whole time. The conversation was very awkward and there was pressure coming from another stop sign in the distance.
My memory holds on to my taste for psychological horror.
Several images flash in my head, and all of a sudden, subconsciously and without much thought, in about a 3 seconds, I become attracted to a concept that now exists in my head:
A psychological horror story of stop signs communicating to with people in the same manner as Nathan did in that video.
Not just conversation. Social obligations come into play. Some humanity is eventually lost.
Then I thought that everyone would have this problem.
For that, you would need SEVERAL stop signs to control a whole town.
So, in a few more seconds, I think that it'd be better to multiply the stop signs.
I've NEVER seen a stop sign being installed. They're just there, almost magically and by default. There like a street's belly button. They're just there.
You go to sleep one night, and the next morning you see more. Some appear in the middle of the road. Some appear inside your house.
With time, there are so many stop signs you CAN'T even move.
The whole town is consumed and no one ever leaves because the stop signs actually become your friends.
Spacial awareness goes out the window and everyone dies in the end.

I had read books by Junji Ito before so that was a big influence in the whole atmosphere.


What do we learn?
My Ne, as creative as it claims to be, seems to use memory for a creative process A LOT.
The more material I have stored in my memory, the more I have to work with.
I can't describe enough how the story wrote itself. And it was as if someone held several pictures in front of me in a sequence and asked me to write down what I thought happened.
My mind hands me several images, ideas, words and concepts, and then I kind of fill in the blanks (this is literally, by definition, intuitive).
 

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Ne/Si. Possible Impressions,

Rock/Cloud.




how can you not?



Put those together and you get a Cloud Mountain. Who would not want to climb soft mountains in the sky. Come one now.



I love the symbology of the Ni responses. From rock bottom to ascension among the clouds. Or The sturdiness rock of live to the cloudy storm. I could listen to it all day. but yes I also ignore my 5th funciton because whenever something that seems to personally mean something to me like "Maybe that happened to me because I'm this or that." I always think "Nah it could of happened for this other possible reason." lool @spaceynyc
 

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Plague Doctor
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@ANAXEL

It's interesting for me to see how different the Ne vs Ni impressions are. There's a clear difference to me. I'd like to see more Ni answers just to get the variety, but it was also interesting to see Ne. With Ni, I can see where they're going with what they're saying. With the Ne, it seems that everything that is being said is either new or creative. I mean, both answers seemed creative, but the Ne was much more generative.

When do you think we should switch to another prompt?
 
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