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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm currently considering Si as an alternative to Ni for a couple of reasons and need some help.

Memory

What is the difference between an Ni dominant, and an Si dominant who has a bad memory, or had a bad childhood/came from a broken home etc - this kind of Si type, would clean cut their childhood out of their memories.

That's what I've done, and now my childhood might as well not exist, it's very vague. I only really recall 'life lessons' that kind of thing.
If pressed for details about my memories, I get very agitated, avoidant and stressed out - for a couple of reasons - first is that I don't want people to know anything about my childhood or my past because I see it as completely irrelevant and none of anyones business, and second is that I simply don't remember it, and it irritates the shit out of me to be pushed into even attempting to recall information from my childhood - it's just not there.

I can recall parts of it with crystal clear clarity, when prompted by an idea or something of that nature - stereotypical of N, but I'm seeking to identify whether an Si user who's cut large sections of their life out, so now their memory in that regard is shocking, might wind up similar.

So how do I know, that because of this, my possibly Si mind, hasn't formed ways of getting around these massive black holes - how do I know that being able to remember things like life lessons, or being prompted by ideas or symbols in my head, isn't something my mind has created to help me out, rather than Ni.


In general, my memory isn't the best - but I question this a lot, because my memory with regards to things that interest me is absolutely phenomenal. I can rattle on for days about all kinds of shit I love - music, mythology, typology, I remember all of this kind of thing.
Everyday life things to me, aren't interesting, and so I don't remember shit - I will forget one item off of a two (or even one) item list when I get to the shop - because on the way to the shops, my mind will dive into something interesting to me, next thing I know, I'm at the shops and am like.. I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo, what the hell am I doing here, I don't belong here..

So when I say in "general", I mean with regards to ordinary life. If I apply "general" to mean, pertaining to things I'm interested in, i.e things I spend "generally" most of my time thinking about, very good memory.


Details.

I'm not interested in the specifics of most things, I don't care enough about them and getting too far into the nitty-gritty details of things, everything, clogs my mind up and stresses me out. I'd argue this right here is my least favourite thing.
I hate being overloaded by information. It's probably my #1 flaw.
I don't help myself here, as I'm constantly after more information - though it has to pertain to things I'm interested in.. if this is the case, I can deep-dive into learning as much about things as possible and won't really become overwhelmed.

So there's a contradiction there, but it seems reminiscent of Pi in general, rather than Ni specifically, or Si specifically.

I find myself being brilliant at noticing inconsistencies - this might be things people say, or it might be something physical - this applies to my own inner world and mind as well - if I know something and come across new information that makes sense, I'll add it.
If it contradicts what I already know, I'll notice and seek to absorb it and create an understanding that incorporates everything I know, rather than remove any information or dismiss it.

I can be details overlord when it's related to something I enjoy - i.e when I used to play Pokemon, I was knew everything about breeding, getting perfect IVs, how to optimise EV training etc.

Same deal in Clash Royale - I understand all the finer details, I can keep an accurate gauge of how much elixir the opponent has (you can't see it) just by keeping mental tabs on what he's dropped and when, and I'll always be keeping tabs on where my elixir is compared to where I think his is - this helps me launch my attacks at the right times in order to take home the W.


Perspectives.

This is something that feels decidedly Ni. My biggest strength is my ability to shift perspectives - I do this often, all day, almost can't help it - even at work, I'll picture myself as the person I'm calling, I can see them in my head.

When solving any problems relating to people, or even just talking to people, or about people, I can always understand where everyone is coming from, this comes naturally to me, I don't have to try, and for this reason I find myself easily able to navigate my way through any disagreements or problem solve with ease, and offer solutions that please everyone.
I'm more than happy to sacrifice my own views on the things in this respect.

My entire life I've been praised for this 'trait' or 'skill', and have been called I'm insightful on numerous occasions by people I don't really know. So I take this to heart as a legitimate 'thing' that other people can see.
I underestimate my skills here quite a bit, but my wife sees it as one of the reasons she married me.

This ability to perspective shift is also why I can come across as a legitimate ISTP, INTJ, INTP, or any other type on internet forums etc, and probably why people think I'm this type or that type, it's also likely the reason for my own hesitations to settle on a type, because I can genuinely imagine various types as the right one.

So this ability is a pro and a con, but I view it as a pro.
I didn't realise this was a thing other people didn't do until I got to about 20 or so, and moreso after I got into typology and found it was sort of exclusive to certain types.

Is there any way that this trait, perhaps my #1 defining trait, could be stretched to be something correlated to Si?
Even the slightest hint will give me something to work with and I'll be able to see where that path goes.


New things.

This is hit or miss for me.
On one hand, I love new things - new foods, new places, new games, new phones, new gadgets, new everything - it has to be in my own time, of my own accord.

When forced into new things, I hate it. Can't stand it.
My job for instance, telemarketing. Hated it immediately, it was a new job and the training was practically non-existent - so out of nowhere, I felt, I was thrust into something completely new - cold calling people.
Having to speak to people constantly, having to do small-talk (which I can't do).. this is new to me, and I dislike it.

With music - I used to dislike improvising live - because people would play songs I don't know and expect me to just be able to shred it up - which I can do, but back then I didn't feel like I had enough licks etc to get through a whole setlist with.
I do now - and I love improvising - but there's a common-ground, even when playing songs I've never heard before - and that is, that I know the keys, I know loads of licks, I know all my scales, all my patterns, I know various techniques - in other words, I've got a large enough pool of things I can use, in those new songs.

I feel like this is likely Si at work - though it could simply come from me learning how to improvise lead guitar, nothing to do with cognitive functions - it's just that, before I had this common-ground, or this link between 'the past and the present' with regards to improvising, I didn't want to to do.
I kind of enjoyed messing around, but in my head I just felt like.. I'm not ready to stand out and do this.

Premonitions/hunches.

I am guided by these to a large degree, and I base a lot of the decisions I make off of them, however if possible, I prefer to have at least some kind of details or data to work with when making my decisions.

I act on these premonitions or hunches often enough, that my friends and family see it as one of my defining traits - they also see it as a little reckless, but I just feel like I know what I'm doing.

When asked to describe me with 5 words, my wife uses the word "fluke", so that kind of sums up how other people see this part of me. I can totally understand why they would see it this way.

Creativity.

I don't believe I'm a creative person. I like to think I am, however I struggle to think of times when I have been truly creative. I can't recall for example, coming up with something entirely brand new.

My best creations and ideas always tend to spawn from something that exists, and I constantly feel I can't take credit for them, even if I have altered them and refined or worked on them and the final result doesn't resemble the inspiration, I still feel it's not 'creative' or 'original'.

Take music for example.

My song-writing process - I won't go into detail as it's far too in-depth, but the gist is that I will either start with a chord progression, or ideas for lyrics.

The chord progressions will probably be things that sound relatively familiar at first, and then I work on them until they don't - or I will make minor adjustments to prevent them from sounding predictable.
I don't magic completely new chord progressions out of thin air, I feel like I start from a relatively familiar place.

Lyrically, it's the same - my lyrics might be inspired by things I've heard, other songs, phrases, things I've taken from books, dictionaries etc, anything - and I will refine, tweak and alter them until they are what I want them to be.
I don't feel this is 'original' even though the end result might be.

With regards to how I learn to play lead guitar - I began without any training, just learnt entirely on my own - however I eventually felt limited by this, and branched out into stealing licks etc from other players and songs I like, including instruments that aren't originally on guitar - I steal from absolutely everyone and anything when it comes to playing guitar, and I'm constantly adding to my 'database' of licks and cool lines etc - all of this helps me to improvise on the spot - I can pull from this databank, on the spot, and play something that won't resemble the original lick I stole - because I alter/tweak/refine them in real time.
Fact is, they're definitely taken from a familiar place - even when I alter licks etc - those altererations become their own licks - my licks - but I know they aren't entirely original, I know where they're taken from.

So although I strive for originality and creativity, I feel it comes from a pretty familiar and uncreative place.


Word match thing.
These are from the official MBTI website, blue I agree with, red I don't, and under each one, reasons why I disagree with the red ones.

ISFJ
CONSCIENTIOUS PATIENT
DETAILED PRACTICAL
DEVOTED PROTECTIVE
LOYAL RESPONSIBLE
METICULOUS SERVICE-MINDED
ORGANIZED TRADITIONAL

I am only detail oriented when it comes to my very niche interests. I am not practical at all though I wish I was.
I don't feel like I am responsible, rather I feel I can be a little impulsive. I am only meticulous with regards to my interests.
I am only service-minded with regards to my interests (i.e typology). I am only organised with regards to my interests.
I am not traditional, though I can understand people who are.

INFJ
COMMITTED HOLISTIC
COMPASSIONATE IDEALISTIC
CONCEPTUAL INTENSE
CREATIVE LOYAL
DEEP RESERVED
DETERMINED SENSITIVE

I feel I could always be more compassionate, though I do try to be. I don't feel very creative, I feel most my best ideas work from something that already exists.
I don't feel any deeper than anyone else, just different, I think we're all deep. I'm not sensitive and openly welcome critique.



I'm hopeful that's enough to give other people something to work with, I'm more than comfortable with the idea of being an Si dominant who's had a bad childhood and has cut a lot off of his memories out of his mind (unless prompted by certain things).

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated - I'm open to suggestions for dominant functions that aren't Ni or Si, if something else seems to be the cause of all this, I'm definitely open to that.

EDIT: Disclaimer - I've never actually tested as an ISFJ. I'm just curious.
I specify ISFJ as I make my decisions via F, and am pretty sure I'm a Pi dominant.
 

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I may flesh this out more whenever I have access to a computer, but here's just some food for thought in the meantime :). Allow me to be perfectly honest here since you deserve honesty, I do not think you are a Pi dom. You strike me as a Ji dom, though I'm trying to work out the specific details. I am not yet committed to this idea yet, just throwing it out there, but INTP is a distinct possibility in my mind. Ne-Ti often resembles Ni and your thought process seems more Ti than Te. I can see attention to detail and careful integration of new knowledge into your internal framework. You use facts to support your internal logic when arguing a point, not the other way around. I also do not think you are a dom or aux Fe, based on the frankness in which you deliver your opinion and prioritization of truth and accuracy over accomodation. This could explain the confusion between Ni and Si for you, because as previously stated, Ne-Ti often resembles Ni and there would be the presence of Si in your stack.
 

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I can see why you feel conflicted, as I see a whole clustering of possible dominant functions for you in this post.

You seemed to have a few moments where you slipped into INFJ territory, because you basically chamaeleon your personality, type and (sometimes) thinking to suit your perspective shifts (I have noticed other INFJs do this a lot; they seem the least secure of their type and often entertain many possibilities at once).

I can also see the Ti-dom that Birbs is proposing, too, as you are intensely (internally) analytical; always striving for more internal, not always useful, knowledge storage; your perspective shifts (though I am not sure an INTP would be able to perspective shift about people-oriented scenarios as fluently or efficiently as you do, which is one point where I would question this); and your good use of Ti-Ne acting as Ni (which could further be hypothesised as a coping mechanism due to childhood trauma, as you would desperately want to seek patterns to avoid further hurt).

But, you could also be entertaining this and - deep down - still know you are INFJ. Just as you said to me you do frequently a few days ago. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I may flesh this out more whenever I have access to a computer, but here's just some food for thought in the meantime :). Allow me to be perfectly honest here since you deserve honesty, I do not think you are a Pi dom. You strike me as a Ji dom, though I'm trying to work out the specific details. I am not yet committed to this idea yet, just throwing it out there, but INTP is a distinct possibility in my mind. Ne-Ti often resembles Ni and your thought process seems more Ti than Te. I can see attention to detail and careful integration of new knowledge into your internal framework. You use facts to support your internal logic when arguing a point, not the other way around. I also do not think you are a dom or aux Fe, based on the frankness in which you deliver your opinion and prioritization of truth and accuracy over accomodation. This could explain the confusion between Ni and Si for you, because as previously stated, Ne-Ti often resembles Ni and there would be the presence of Si in your stack.
I'd be keen to hear it fleshed out, if you've got time.
I feel like all I do is perceive. Ji dom sounds a little funny.

I do prioritize accuracy but in 'real life' I'd rather maintain harmony (hate using that word, too cliche) than start a war over something most of the time.

I can shift into some kind of 'accuracy mode' I guess I would call it, where when I know beyond any doubt that something is as I say it, then I won't budge from it. Not only that, but I won't accept the other person trying to "agree to disagree" - because this is just a bullshit cop-out to me.

For instance the colour of a car, if I know it was red and someone says it was blue then depending on my mood I won't budge from it being red, because the damn thing was red.
This annoys the crap out of people.

When it's something like this, where I'm so blatantly correct - then no, I won't pretend it was blue.
I'll make sure I get the last word with something like "you can pretend it was blue if you want, but it was red, so that's the end of that".


I can see why you feel conflicted, as I see a whole clustering of possible dominant functions for you in this post.

You seemed to have a few moments where you slipped into INFJ territory, because you basically chamaeleon your personality, type and (sometimes) thinking to suit your perspective shifts (I have noticed other INFJs do this a lot; they seem the least secure of their type and often entertain many possibilities at once).

I can also see the Ti-dom that Birbs is proposing, too, as you are intensely (internally) analytical; always striving for more internal, not always useful, knowledge storage; your perspective shifts (though I am not sure an INTP would be able to perspective shift about people-oriented scenarios as fluently or efficiently as you do, which is one point where I would question this); and your good use of Ti-Ne acting as Ni (which could further be hypothesised as a coping mechanism due to childhood trauma, as you would desperately want to seek patterns to avoid further hurt).

But, you could also be entertaining this and - deep down - still know you are INFJ. Just as you said to me you do frequently a few days ago. :)
Yeah, well, I do just "know" I'm an INFJ, because it all fits.
The way I "know" sounds kind of like Ti though - all the pieces fit together and make sense, it's the only possibility via dichotomy (outside of possibly INFP) - I'd never be mistaken for an E, an S or a T IRL, I could be mistaken for a P (imo) - but my friends all see me as a J. One of my friends actually picked ESTJ out which clean mystified me as it made me wonder where the hell he's been for the last 15 years.
So I guess they see me as a kind of "get it done" kinda guy, whereas I see myself as much more of a perceiver (on the inside.. guess that makes sense why they'd see me as a J then..)

I can't see the Ne. I feel I'm far more focused than Ne types, I've observed them online quite a bit, and I've got friends that are INTP, INFP and ENFP - I'm sure I can identify Ne "for real" and I don't see it in me.

Funnily enough the INTP more out-there than the ENFP.
The ENFP is just a normal person, imo. Nothing like the uber creative/crazy stereotypes.
He's just a normal, hard-working father kinda guy. Usually upbeat. :/
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It's too late to edit my original post, but I just thought up another possible "plus" for any types that have Si in their stack.

I love Hidden Object style games (getting into Seekers Notes atm), and I am an absolute god at spotting items - I can clean burn through em all no sweat, extremely perceptive even with the toughest of items - and then, after I know where things are - I remember where they are in the future, so if I have a hard time spotting things, I'll just quickly zoom around and check the places I've found them before.

This sounds like Si to me, whether it's magically "dominant" or even in my top 4 functions, who knows, sounds more like just having a decent memory with regards to something that interests me, but hey, wanted to throw it up there.

I mean I'm ridiculously good at these kinds of games.

My wife has been playing Hidden City: Mystery of Shadows for like a month, and she hands me her tablet when she's got like 20 seconds left because to her it's almost like just pressing the little item that lets you know where something is - I'm legit at this.

I would make a ridiculously good detective. I can go into like uber perception mode and notice all those stereotypically Si sorts of things - inconsistencies, discrepancies, etc - and if it's about something I'm interested in, I will thoroughly enjoy this.
I don't like doing it when I'm not interested in something.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
So I came across this, trying to find an eBook of Building Blocks of Personality Types by Mark Hunziker and Leona Haas..
MBTI & Enneagram | Search results for: hunziker

If I could find an eBook version, I'd pick it up immediately.

Anyway. Even more confused.
I relate to Ni 100%. Fe like 75%. Fi 75%. Ti 70%. Te 30%. Si 70%. Se 30%. Ne 60%.
N, F, T, S in general.

I have to admit, I'm surprised at how much Si I relate to.
This post is an edit - I prematurely wrote that I related to none, I just read like the first half - then I got to the "What's Going On" section and found I relate to a lot of it.

Not as much as Ni, but about the same as I relate to Ti, Fe and Fi.

Genuinely surprised at what I'm learning about Si the last few days, it's clicking into place.
Big fan of it. I might be bias in wanting to be an Si user, I think, even though it's realistically not my dominant function.


This is from the same tumblr account:

INFJ Type 5

The INFJ who may wonder if they are actually INTP or INTJ, they will come across as thinkers and will have a lot of interesting insights. If you are fascinated by the theoretical, you will probably be able to talk with your INFJ 5 friend for hours about their thoughts about life ~ and will find that they have a voracious hunger for knowledge and a very analytical mind.

They will be sensitive to your emotional states and care about them because of their Fe, while not coming across as emotional or invasive, and tending to be detached (although a 4 wing will temper that). 5s in general want to be independent, and don’t deal well with clinginess or people who “invade” their space too far or violate their privacy, so they may not initiate contact or open up as often as some enneatypes.

An INFJ 5’s Fe will make them seem more extroverted than they really are. Fe concern about others will be expressed in ways native to the 5 interaction style, which is less self-revealing (unless in a place they feel safe) than that of some enneatypes. There is a subtlety and depth to them that is not always recognized by those who don’t know them well.

5s with Fe can seem aloof even though they have very warm feelings inside, because of this…the better you get to know them, the more you realize how much rests below the surface, and even when they aren’t with the people they care about, they think about their connections with them and feel closer to them. During solitude, they nourish their internal love towards others and sometimes become aware of feelings they weren’t conscious of, before.

If they become aware of feelings during your absence, they may spill them out suddenly when they are around you again…in a somewhat gushily affectionate way, at times.
Yes.
 

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I'm currently considering Si as an alternative to Ni for a couple of reasons and need some help.
My big struggle after managing to read most of your really long post.. is that no Si dom I know is good at shifting perspectives. I would assume this is because the intuition they have is inferior. There's usually this struggle in them to understand how someone could see something different than them. You're saying stuff that sounds either Ni or Ti or both. INFJ obviously has both.
Not that this is all that important but I'm pretty sure the blue highlighted words under ISFJ could apply to INFJ as well.

I hate when people make statements like this I'm gonna go ahead and say that I could relate to just about everything you said so it wouldn't surprise me if we had all the same functions. I'm most definitely a Ti dom though.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
My big struggle after managing to read most of your really long post.. is that no Si dom I know is good at shifting perspectives. I would assume this is because the intuition they have is inferior. There's usually this struggle in them to understand how someone could see something different than them. You're saying stuff that sounds either Ni or Ti or both. INFJ obviously has both.
Not that this is all that important but I'm pretty sure the blue highlighted words under ISFJ could apply to INFJ as well.

I hate when people make statements like this I'm gonna go ahead and say that I could relate to just about everything you said so it wouldn't surprise me if we had all the same functions. I'm most definitely a Ti dom though.
Hey, thanks for the response, it means a lot.
I didn't think my OP was that long, that was the brief version of what was in my head, lol.

I hadn't considered that Si doms might have struggles shifting perspectives.
I knew it was an Ni thing, obviously, didn't think that it might be something that would be decidedly not Si, at the same time.. does make sense, though.

Thanks again.

Interesting that you resonate with most of what I said there - what's your Enneagram type?
 

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Interesting that you resonate with most of what I said there - what's your Enneagram type?
No clue. I've never really looked into it. I know I have a relatively developed Fe and Ni, but of course, this was not always the case. Although, at a glance back through, I don't rely incredibly heavily on hunches. I do follow them somewhat, but I also like things to make sense. I've also learned through the forums, and studying MBTI that Ni specifically is the gut function. Not Ne.
I would give you a more detailed response to your OP, but I'm running low on time today.
 
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An ISFJ I know thinks she gets hunches and feelings about things.. but anyone logical hearing her and watching her knows that she's just confusing her emotions and her own preferred outcome with a gut feeling. She's frequently wrong as well because life rarely goes exactly the way she wants it. >.>
The ISTJ I know has no concept of a hunch or gut feeling, and will proclaim that.
 

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@Turi, I am not one who generally trusts tests - mostly because a lot of people type as they want to be. The first MBTI test I took was one where I thankfully new absolutely nothing about MBTI, and I scored hardcore ENFP. I still do - I have never typed as anything else. Even when I finally got into the functions, even when I considered different functions, I was always drawn back to Ne. You say you never test as anything else. Even after studying the functions like crazy and scouring the world for any and every resource you can get your hands on.

I tend to trust that you lead with Ni. I remember reading your post on the Ni for Ne-doms thread and it didn't seem like Si+Ne to me. There was Se there. There was looking past objectively what is there and focusing on internal images, archetypes, and engaging with concept... to me that suggests Ni. The thing is, if you use Si, you also use Ne. That will come out. Generally it's in a more negative infantile form, like foreseeing all of the negative things that could happen, catastrophizing everything when stressed.

You probably know how at the heart of Si, it's all about subjective impressions of what is. It is still quite tied to the sensory realm, focus still goes to what is via your give senses. That you don't have a good memory to me doesn't tell me anything about what functions you use or don't use - especially if you have bad memories and there could be some psychological stuff going on. Our brains have a way of protecting us from painful things, and pushing memories to the side and not letting us dwell on them lest we become overwhelmed is one of them.

I still don't see Si for you. If I had to consider you having a preference for Sensing, I would suggest Se. Just because I think that's there.

I have two ISFJ friends. One is more stereotypical in that she is this quiet sweet girl and she is now going to college for culinary arts. She's very good at baking. Her Fe is subservient to her Si... She's whimsical in a storybookish way, kind of dreamy... she'd probably get typed by people as an INFP because of this trait. It's more like she overlays what is with her impressions of them. These might be her impressions of things she got while reading the fantasy stories she so loves. She also, like stereotypical Si, is good with doing the same thing and tedious detail work - hence her draw to cooking and especially baking. It's not that it's about being precise and having Si makes you precise, but there is some patience there for a sort of work I for one have zero patience with.

The other ISFJ I know is this friend of mine who is into acting. It's funny to listen to him talk about other actors. I was confused until I realized he definitely used Si+Fe. He'd evaluate from an objective standpoint everything - like acting - but it was subservient to the way he perceived what he saw... he was attentive to the impression he got from the actors. He's a good actor himself. Sometimes he'd talk mysteriously and abstractly, like how he wanted to see something from the person's eyes that wasn't really there but he could perceive - he overlaid it onto what he saw. But... never any engaging with concept, really - and I'm not seeing he was incapable of doing so, but just that it wasn't his go-to. Even though his go-to is quite abstract and impression-like.

When he went skydiving with my husband (haha my husband's best man, an ESTP, organized this as the bachelor's party), he loved the experience and to him it was like he was in the scene of some movie. He imagined he was parachuting from a plane during one of the world wars (he's big into history - particularly the Civil War) and kind of overlaid that onto the situation - he focused on what impressions it gave him.

I really don't see any of those sorts of Si-characteristics in you, not even the most stereotypical ones.
 

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@Turi, I am not one who generally trusts tests - mostly because a lot of people type as they want to be. The first MBTI test I took was one where I thankfully new absolutely nothing about MBTI, and I scored hardcore ENFP. I still do - I have never typed as anything else. Even when I finally got into the functions, even when I considered different functions, I was always drawn back to Ne. You say you never test as anything else. Even after studying the functions like crazy and scouring the world for any and every resource you can get your hands on.

I tend to trust that you lead with Ni. I remember reading your post on the Ni for Ne-doms thread and it didn't seem like Si+Ne to me. There was Se there. There was looking past objectively what is there and focusing on internal images, archetypes, and engaging with concept... to me that suggests Ni. The thing is, if you use Si, you also use Ne. That will come out. Generally it's in a more negative infantile form, like foreseeing all of the negative things that could happen, catastrophizing everything when stressed.

You probably know how at the heart of Si, it's all about subjective impressions of what is. It is still quite tied to the sensory realm, focus still goes to what is via your give senses. That you don't have a good memory to me doesn't tell me anything about what functions you use or don't use - especially if you have bad memories and there could be some psychological stuff going on. Our brains have a way of protecting us from painful things, and pushing memories to the side and not letting us dwell on them lest we become overwhelmed is one of them.

I still don't see Si for you. If I had to consider you having a preference for Sensing, I would suggest Se. Just because I think that's there.

I have two ISFJ friends. One is more stereotypical in that she is this quiet sweet girl and she is now going to college for culinary arts. She's very good at baking. Her Fe is subservient to her Si... She's whimsical in a storybookish way, kind of dreamy... she'd probably get typed by people as an INFP because of this trait. It's more like she overlays what is with her impressions of them. These might be her impressions of things she got while reading the fantasy stories she so loves. She also, like stereotypical Si, is good with doing the same thing and tedious detail work - hence her draw to cooking and especially baking. It's not that it's about being precise and having Si makes you precise, but there is some patience there for a sort of work I for one have zero patience with.

The other ISFJ I know is this friend of mine who is into acting. It's funny to listen to him talk about other actors. I was confused until I realized he definitely used Si+Fe. He'd evaluate from an objective standpoint everything - like acting - but it was subservient to the way he perceived what he saw... he was attentive to the impression he got from the actors. He's a good actor himself. Sometimes he'd talk mysteriously and abstractly, like how he wanted to see something from the person's eyes that wasn't really there but he could perceive - he overlaid it onto what he saw. But... never any engaging with concept, really - and I'm not seeing he was incapable of doing so, but just that it wasn't his go-to. Even though his go-to is quite abstract and impression-like.

When he went skydiving with my husband (haha my husband's best man, an ESTP, organized this as the bachelor's party), he loved the experience and to him it was like he was in the scene of some movie. He imagined he was parachuting from a plane during one of the world wars (he's big into history - particularly the Civil War) and kind of overlaid that onto the situation - he focused on what impressions it gave him.

I really don't see any of those sorts of Si-characteristics in you, not even the most stereotypical ones.
Hey thanks for chipping in.

I do return various results on tests - the most common is INFJ.

I first came across mbti via a thread on a music forum I frequent, and scored INTP but questioned it (and the entire idea of mbti theory) immediately because it didn't match and I didn't like the idea of forcing everyone into boxes.

I was going through a kind of depression at the time and made threads about this, and my first ever experience with "anxiety" at around the same time.

The idea certainly piqued my interest though and I basically just knew INFJ was the correct one from reading descriptor etc and Ni was (still really is) the only choice for dominant for me.

But yeah my test results vary depending on how the questions are phrased which was part of my critique of the whole typology thing a while back.

Thanks for those examples, I can see how Si and Ne work together from those.. it's not me, but I love it.

If you've got nothing else to do, check out my Enneagram "whats my type?" video and see if there's any similarities to the ISFJs and INTPs you know.

It's an Enneagram video but eh might see if I come across similar to them at all. Or not.

I want to be an Si user so bad.
I feel like if I could get Si happening I'd be like, my final form.
 
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I hadn't considered that Si doms might have struggles shifting perspectives.
I knew it was an Ni thing, obviously, didn't think that it might be something that would be decidedly not Si, at the same time.. does make sense, though.
Hey, just saw this and wanted to say, as an ISFJ, I have no real problem shifting perspectives. I do it all the time. Maybe it's possible the way an Ni-dom does it and the way I do it is somehow different. But I have no problem seeing how someone could see something differently than I do like the other poster said was their experience with Si-doms. I've always been very good at understanding people and where they're coming from.
 

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Hey thanks for chipping in.

I do return various results on tests - the most common is INFJ.

I first came across mbti via a thread on a music forum I frequent, and scored INTP but questioned it (and the entire idea of mbti theory) immediately because it didn't match and I didn't like the idea of forcing everyone into boxes.

I was going through a kind of depression at the time and made threads about this, and my first ever experience with "anxiety" at around the same time.

The idea certainly piqued my interest though and I basically just knew INFJ was the correct one from reading descriptor etc and Ni was (still really is) the only choice for dominant for me.

But yeah my test results vary depending on how the questions are phrased which was part of my critique of the whole typology thing a while back.

Thanks for those examples, I can see how Si and Ne work together from those.. it's not me, but I love it.

If you've got nothing else to do, check out my Enneagram "whats my type?" video and see if there's any similarities to the ISFJs and INTPs you know.

It's an Enneagram video but eh might see if I come across similar to them at all. Or not.

I want to be an Si user so bad.
I feel like if I could get Si happening I'd be like, my final form.
Hahaha. I want to hear you talk about Si. What do you mean by "final form"? Did you ever think all of what draws you to Si and the ideas and images it gives you points to Ni? Hahaha. I feel like I'm tapping into how you with your dominant Ni perceives Si and somehow that is super fun to think about.
 
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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Hey, just saw this and wanted to say, as an ISFJ, I have no real problem shifting perspectives. I do it all the time. Maybe it's possible the way an Ni-dom does it and the way I do it is somehow different. But I have no problem seeing how someone could see something differently than I do like the other poster said was their experience with Si-doms. I've always been very good at understanding people and where they're coming from.
Holy shit, an ISFJ online! Might as well be a shiny Pokemon. lol.
Thanks for your post, it gives me something to think about, for sure.

I was thinking.. could perspective shifting perhaps be linked to Fe then, but my wife is an ESFJ and isn't as understanding as I am in this regard.

My ISTJ friend doesn't do this, at least as far as I've observed - whenever I've been in conversation with him and detailed how I can understand why people might do certain things etc, he's always just stuck to whatever his thoughts are i.e "nah, it's stupid" etc etc no matter what angles I present.

Maybe it has nothing to do with cognitive functions.

Hahaha. I want to hear you talk about Si. What do you mean by "final form"? Did you ever think all of what draws you to Si and the ideas and images it gives you points to Ni? Hahaha. I feel like I'm tapping into how you with your dominant Ni perceives Si and somehow that is super fun to think about.
Yes, I have considered this in-depth - that perhaps I'm seeing Si through an Ni lense of sorts, and might be turning it into something that it's not, in my head.

By 'final form' I meant, if I were to understand and master Si, as an Ni dom - wouldn't my ideas and thoughts etc be completely bulletproof? It'd almost be like.. evolving.

To imagine me, as I am, Ni - and applying my idea of Si to myself, it's just amazing - for example, say a premonition or a dream that I decide to act on - to imagine diving into that, deciphering what it means, unearthing all the symbolism and imagery associated with it and then applying Si to that - what other symbolism and imagery am I aware of that might help me out?
What past dreams and premonitions/hunches can I call upon to compare/contrast the ones I'm dissecting at the moment?

It's just amazing to even think about - it's completely not on my mind to do that though - when I'm doing that, I'm entirely focused on that one single dream or image that's in my head - I'm not considering alternatives or seeking to match it - or the vibes it gives me - with other images I've had.
I feel like tapping into Si would give me a very solid, well-rounded base, to dive into that sort of thing with.

Even in everyday life - I'll just use a massive Ni stereotype - say I know something is going to happen - obviously, this is based off of Se observations under the surface and Ni connecting the dots and coming to a singular theory of what will happen - but imagine applying Si to that 'hunch'.

I'd be able to figure out precisely *why* I feel that way about a certain thing - Si would help me detail what exactly that moment is reminding me of - it would help me understand the "why" behind the Ni-Se observations, in relation to my own life experience.

It would just clean blow my mind.


For you - imagine.. Se. Imagine applying Se to your Ne ideas and thoughts.
Imagine, as your mind runs wild with possibilities - that you had a way of actually experiencing your thoughts via your five senses.

It's harder to picture, as it's an extraverted function - but I would see it as, say whatever thoughts are racing through your mind are able to be actually experienced in real time, in the present moment.

So when you drive up the road and picture a cloud of bats flying out of a cave as some old lady starts cackling her head off, right before some big massive mouth in the sky starts singing that song that's been stuck in your head for days at the same time as the guy you just drove past for whatever reason shrinks into a little ball of fire and shoots off into the sky, then explodes into fireworks that look like Team Rocker - that you could literally experience it.*****

Okay so that example is a bit crazy, but essentially, what it would boil down to more realistically - imagine if you applied Se to your Ne, and actually made those ideas in your head a reality, rather than just thinking about them - you actually started doing because your mind was able to come up with practical ways of making it happen, rather than just constant thought.

I realise I might be getting a bit out there in this post but I'm trying my hardest to keep it relatively easy to follow.

If that idea excites you, as an Ne dominant, to be able to apply your Se to your Ne - well that same feeling is what I get when I imagine applying Si to my Ni.

For me it's more like.. imagine being able to have practical, tangible reasoning behind my ideas and my hunches - imagine if my Ni could be backed up with solid experience and facts.
It's just awesome to think about.


*****does this sound like Ne?
That's the kind of thing that goes through my head a lot of the time and I wonder if it's Ne or if I'm just tired.
Or if it's Ni.

I could sit there and go into whatever world that is all day.
Does it sound like Ne?
 
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Holy shit, an ISFJ online! Might as well be a shiny Pokemon. lol.
Thanks for your post, it gives me something to think about, for sure.

I was thinking.. could perspective shifting perhaps be linked to Fe then, but my wife is an ESFJ and isn't as understanding as I am in this regard.

My ISTJ friend doesn't do this, at least as far as I've observed - whenever I've been in conversation with him and detailed how I can understand why people might do certain things etc, he's always just stuck to whatever his thoughts are i.e "nah, it's stupid" etc etc no matter what angles I present.

Maybe it has nothing to do with cognitive functions.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about Fe. That's interesting about your wife though. Hmm. It might be a difference between Fe used as a dom or aux function.
 

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I was thinking.. could perspective shifting perhaps be linked to Fe then, but my wife is an ESFJ and isn't as understanding as I am in this regard.

My ISTJ friend doesn't do this, at least as far as I've observed - whenever I've been in conversation with him and detailed how I can understand why people might do certain things etc, he's always just stuck to whatever his thoughts are i.e "nah, it's stupid" etc etc no matter what angles I present.

Maybe it has nothing to do with cognitive functions.
The way you described perspective shifting in your earlier post sounded more Fe/Ti to me rather than coming from a perceptive function. Ne, however, seems like the obvious source to see multiple perspectives, but I don't see why any other function couldn't come up with the same result. Si would seek experiential support to assess whether multiple perspectives were realistic and go from there - so there's no reason why that support wouldn't allow for a shift.

"nah, it's stupid" is a textbook Te response to something which has been judged as being inefficient to consider in detail. Te and Si tend to be at opposing ends on this (Si seeks as much information as possible because more detail means more understanding; Te wants to make a decision quickly in the simplest, most efficient way possible). It's more appararent with Te doms (try the ENTJ forum, there's a lot of evidence there) in that they judge there is one single best way to do things based on external facts (tangible, unarguable, proven), and everything else is a waste of resources - so even if they've reviewed the other perspective, they consider it incorporated and doesn't require anything further.

Te is often seen by non TJ types as cold-hearted in this way, simply because when Fi is in service to Te, feelings, emotions, values (all the things you'd normally associate with F types) tend to be judged as subjective, inconsistent, variable factors which can't be judged objectively or impartially. So even if you're aware of them (and I actually believe most TJs are most of the time) you don't see them as particularly helpful in terms of making a decision - they're just ambiguous.

However, TJs are quite capable of incorporating more stereotypical Fe-like traits if they have a Te justification behind them. For example, if a TJ needs to work with other people in order to put a plan in production, then they may consider that if they negatively affect these people's feelings, then this could affect the efficiency of putting the plan into production, or making the plan/procedure work, given that if people are emotionally affected in a negative way by something, they'll tend to resist it. So in terms of behaviour they may appear more Fe like even if under the surface, they're probably judging the behaviour to be more efficient or effective rather than it being directly about the impact on the people themselves.

I might also add, given how you phrased your comment, that why someone has done something is less important to ISTJs. I think it's a combination of both Si and Te in their own ways, but we tend to believe "actions speak louder than words" quite strongly. I find I can often see the reason why someone might have done something, but I struggle with the idea that they went and did something stupid anyway - why didn't they just stop and think and see how ridiculous it was/how much damage it would do? I think I struggle mostly with understanding the lack of forethought of repercussions of your actions etc, even though I know it's what people do, and I can see the reasoning behind it. The idea of someone thinking "I know this is a bad idea, but I want to so I'm going to do it anyway" seems crazy to me. I suppose it's a combination of Si's thoroughness plus Te's focus on the end result. (And some inferior Ne automatically highlighting the potential negative outcomes).
 
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