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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Introverted iNtuiting - (Ni)

Introverted iNtuiting* - (Ni)


Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level.

Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us.

A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden "Aha!" or "That's it!" The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future.

Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform.

We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs.

This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal.

It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions.


*Adapted from Linda V. Berens and Dario Nardi, Understanding Yourself and Others: An Introduction to the Personality Type Code (Used with permission)



It's said that Ni focus on future and understading of how things will develope. For me it sounds like every Ni dom could foretell political, environmental and financial development. Or is that something that only INTJs does? Anyway, I would like to hear what is your personal interpretation about Ni and how it appears in your life. Can you foretell changes that shapes society? Or what can kind of changes you notice? What makes you sure that you are Ni user?

I am not personally sure that I am Ni dom but I can come up with some reasoning that could support that option:

Well I might need to start with the beginning... When I was a kid/teenager some of my closest friends idealized certain kind of live styles, loved to critisize society, and seemed to think that protesting shows real commitment to the cause. While I was also vegeterian etc I didn't share their enthusiasm about protesting and pure idealisms. For me the problem was that things they did or glamorized weren't effective (I couldn't see them working in our society) so everything they did seemed quite impractical and sometimes also pointless. So when we were teenagers they talked a lot about right and wrong and try to change laws by protesting while I studied more to become someone who could actually have real power to change those laws. I get that they also had positive effective and world need people like them but I can't be without noticing that our way of seeing world was very different even when we were young. They were more here and now people while I was more "let's figure out the best solution, make a plan and focu on/stick with that"- kind of person.

But being honest these day I mostly focus on people and try to see patterns in their behavior. And if I have understood it right that is something that also ENFPs do:

"Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone's behavior really means."Extraverted iNtuiting (Ne))

So I am very interested to understand how you guys see your Ni and how you think that your Ni impacts your life :) What about this whole future thing? What does it mean? Does it mean that you plan something workable and stick with your plan and make it happend or that you can foretell what is going to happen?

I would really appreciate your input, INFJs :tongue::confused::wink:
 

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The future thing IMO is kind of a stereotype, it's true that Ni is directed towards the future: "what will happen?" etc, but just because it is directed to the future doesn't at all mean it will always be correct.

What connects me the most to Ni is the need to create a frame that represent a universal truth regarding everything that life holds, I feel like this is the unique thing Ni has as a function. It keeps check with patterns, properties, all kinds of information but everything is related to everything, every piece is in that frame because there was a careful approach towards putting it there.

This is actually why we do have this future predicting thing going on, because we're trying to create a system in our head that has literally answers for everything, for every situation, but it's rare to have an Ni dom that actually creates a completley stable and true frame of mind.
 
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INFJ crystal balling is mostly limited to predictions that involve the human component. Some environmental and social indicators are related, giving us a broader scope of perception. For example, we can't predict weather, but we may sense mood changes in people and animals as pressure systems shift from high to low. Intuitive types get better with age as we compile a vast internal database of experience to draw from. As I've grown older I've noticed repetitive patterns in everything from politics to clothing. I've seen every bad driver 100 times, and can predict accidents before they unfold in front of me on the road. Same with friendships, romances and movie plots. There are only so many plots and dramas in the theater of life, and they are all so very played out.
 

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It's said that Ni focus on future and understading of how things will develope. For me it sounds like every Ni dom could foretell political, environmental and financial development. Or is that something that only INTJs does?
If the INFJ has an interest or focus on these things, then yes, it's very possible they would foresee things in those areas. It depends on what type of data the INFJ is taking in. I'm personally not very invested in politics so I'd probably be a poor judge there (until I took in more info) and wouldn't attempt to make a prediction.


Anyway, I would like to hear what is your personal interpretation about Ni and how it appears in your life. Can you foretell changes that shapes society? Or what can kind of changes you notice?
I'm more relational focused myself when it comes to one-on-one relationships or people I know personally. But of course I note trends in society and every where else.


What makes you sure that you are Ni user?
From my understanding, Ni is the only function that works on a subconscious level which is why you have the sudden "A-ha!" moments that seemingly come out of no where. I assume Ne is more active or more perceptive in the moment. I'm more slow. I take in all the data in my environment passively and then when I'm alone, it comes together on its own and whispers the answers in my ear. So there's a sense of it feeling effortless almost.


So I am very interested to understand how you guys see your Ni and how you think that your Ni impacts your life :) What about this whole future thing? What does it mean? Does it mean that you plan something workable and stick with your plan and make it happend or that you can foretell what is going to happen?
A tendency towards both I would say. INxJ's will typically see where things are going and make predictions a lot - even if they're wrong. Yes, I usually have a vision in my head that I work to manifest in a tangible sense. My vision inspires me to act. I love it when the physical matches the vision in my head. However, I am open to adapting it too if I must and happy little accidents or whatever. When I'm under stress though, the smallest change in my vision can set me off lol.
 

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Speaking from observation of the INFJ I know:

Ni does not make someone a fortune teller. The aha moments experienced by it are rarely grand in scope. More often they offer an insight or realization about something that allows the Ni user to understand a greater "theme" at play.

To be more specific: an Ni user might realize their friend has an underlying behavior pattern that will lead them to make unexpected or controversial decisions. It doesn't mean they will see whatever specific decision the person might make. So if that person does make an unexpected decision, the Ni user might feel "yeah, I saw that coming." Not the specific action, but the playing out of the theme they picked up on.

Accuracy is hit or miss. Ni user's perceptions are influenced by their internal framework (this applies to all internal oriented cognitive functions). Meaning that sometimes the user gets in the way of their own insights.

The Ni user I know mostly has insights regarding people, relationships, and behavior patterns in those around her. Also occasionally towards politics.

Her insights are sometimes right, sometimes wrong. She's human. Being an Ni user doesn't make one any more or less right, or have some extraordinary grasp of truth.

How does it impact her day to day life? To be honest, I'm not entirely sure. I only see Ni clearly when it gets directly addressed in conversation (when the aha is discussed). It does show up in her writing though, and the stories she tells in her creative work. It's also very clear in her music.

But in terms of pouring a bowl of cereal or writing work emails? I'd say it's not really jumping off the page.
 

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From another thread...

Ni sees and understands the patterns
Ni is a perception function

; even though, INFJs are judging types, their dom and inferior functions are perception functions and then the judging functions kick and are more noticeable.

INFJ...
Ni is fed by the inferior Se
When is use, Ni and Se will play together and utilize Fe and Ti to become something of a diplomat
Some will use Fe more and some will use Ti more as needed, when needed, or as developed
Seems to me Ni and Se are quietly thinking and Fe and Ti are the action ones...
With the above said, I think Ni fed by Se is the seeing a pattern and understanding it. If the pattern holds true then, Ni did see the next move. I don’t think it can predict the farther future though in a detailed manner.
 

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I think infjs can predict the weather :tongues: I know my ni does that
Could say NE then

That's interesting --I often use singular things to focus on. Let's say mantra, symbols...
I see that based on the description in the op I often use ni to make things easier.
That connects pretty well to future forecasting...

I will take a look at a lot creative ideas, find the gist of it
I do the same for procedures at work and at home
Often my ni mentions the holes in a person's thinking or the holes in anything.

Writing this ni seems to feel like a thinking function? Good and impersonal

So I don't necessarily focus on the future but the aim is to make things easy now, and remove what may come inthe future

One other thought I have : boy if I used my ni on myself I could get myself out of some muddy waters :tongue:
Any of you like that?
I usually apply it to something outside of me, such as a person or process
I should talk to myself like I am talking to someone else =)
 

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The way I've come to understand and conceptualize my intuition which by MBTI is considered Ni is that of a information filtration and sorting system.

It is not a mystical power to divine the unknown but rather the ability to absorb, understand and then allocate the known quantities within the unknown and string together a cohesive net of abstract thought that is chiefly concerned with discerning patterns and connections between the available pathways within the net.

As such unrestricted thought processes with no clear goal can go jump about through multiple topics at a rapid pace establishing possible connections and observable patterns along the way. When this happens especially when conversing with someone else I tend to jump between many different topics at a rapid pace.

I also maintain a golden rule when it comes to intuition that allocates it's possibility of being accurate as up to a maximum of 40%.
This is to ensure that I don't suffer from the runaway perceptual tunnel of constantly over relying on my intuitive understanding as the sole method of perceiving reality around me.

I have unfortunately had the displeasure of knowing people in my life especially those who are family who fall victim to this mindset and as such maintain some of the most dysfunctional yet rigid narcissistic personalities as a result of it.

A dangerous manner of living as for the most part if one is able to adapt the scope at which they intake information to feed their intuition they can rationalize the validity of it quite easily and consistently form a perception of reality for the future that matches their intuitive understanding.

Overall, I would say it is future oriented but my intuition tends to find it's roots in understanding through learning of the past and present and making a semi solid plan for the future. A part of being able to look at something from multiple directions is the pure understanding that the future is not set in stone and as such adaptability is how I ultimately see my intuition.

I would say my Ni is my driving force to seek meaning and truth in life. It is the focal point of my thinking and feeling and is what is first consulted in any cognitive and even emotional action. There are times when it needs to be suppressed in order to reduce the amount of positive or negative intuitive influences intuited but for the most part it is a useful gift that hopefully I can utilize well to the degree that I can accomplish the many goals that I have set for myself to improve life of myself and those around me.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you for your answers @TalNFJ @Buoyant @Vivid Melody @Coburn @Dalien @raschel @Crimson Rash . I can see that you all see your Ni in your own way and use it for different purposes :)

BTW this
is maybe the best description of Ni I have seen. Based on that video I am 100% sure that I am Ni dom. He described my way of seeing world very descriptively.

I am also very good at seeing patterns in people's behavior (probably because I focus on people a lot instead of focusing on politics etc, economic etc...).

How well do you use Ne? I think that I can use it quite well because I have practiced it a lot. So I can use it when I find it necessary (to break the ice in social interactions or to brainstorm with others) but when I am tired or stressed out it only makes me see red when someone else use it. Who wanna hear new ideas when you are already struggling to execute your important plan? :D
 

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I can relate to the bird's eye view that video talks about. I'd say that's how it works whenever I'm viewing a person. It's like everything they've every said and done is each a puzzle piece until one day (the better you know them, more data or puzzles pieces you have access to), you have a more complete puzzle and you can stand back and look at the complete picture of who this person really is despite who they say they are. A pattern emerges.


As for Ne, being around my INFP brother makes me realize how much I don't value or favor Ne lol. He's very quick with making these witty connections in the moment. Whereas I feel like more of a slow burn myself (maybe other Ni users don't feel slow like me in that way though). When we watch movies or shows together I feel it's pretty evident too where he's more inclined to talk about the connections he's come to in the moment whereas, I'm still taking it all in, forming impressions (I'm more quiet). Sometimes I'll comment on something a character said or did though. Like "omg, that was such an asshole thing for that character to do (in the moment)!" But the puzzle is still forming. It takes me awhile to adapt to his way of processing because it's not how my brain naturally flows. I am fascinated by it and admire it though. I think the user, mp2 (on here) demonstrates how Ne works beautifully.


I see it as a very playful type of function. I will say that being around a person who values Ne for any lengthy amount of time - it will rub off on me to some degree and I'll get better at making witty connections in the moment but I still value Ni more than Ne. I like coming to conclusions, finding closure, not leaving things open-ended and exploring all the possibilities. I narrow in on one possibility and really dive deeply into it. I'm more inclined to see one truth rather than entertaining a bunch and seeing them as all true.
 

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Ni is like a storage file... memories that are quiet and vague... sort of sleeping. The above video talks about Si, so the opposite thought is actually there... Se is in the now... it gathers factual information. INFJs just don’t realize it... it’s acts the same as in its sleeping in the sense that it’s vague, because it would overwhelm. The new memory rising is the Se working in that it’s helping Ni to create a new scenario from the Ni memories. Se feeds Ni. Ni is like a storage file... memory... Ni and Se are perception functions and sees and understands when working together. One can become unhealthy if the Se is overtaxed/overused. Knowing it’s there and understanding how it works doesn’t mean that one will become unhealthy. I, personally, don’t try to control Se, but I’m older than most here and as you age and/or gain experience your cognitive functions grow/develop with you. I’m not meaning this to be pretentious. Even though, I know of this, my Se remains quiet... I can’t for the life of me remember details of a event/situation. I remember the concept of them though. It’s funny... when I cook a dish, I don’t need the recipe I am utilizing Se by operating my taste preferences... it’s detailed yet quiet... is Ti helping with this?

Fe and Ti are the judging functions... the ones that create the action. Yes, Fe helps read and understand people from our own feelings/emotions and is supported by the perception functions, Ni and Se. Ti will decide how “best” all this information will be implemented. See the cooking a dish, Se utilization in the above paragraph. I know I’m not speaking much on Fe, because I’ve come to a point in my life where I’ve had to manage my feelings/emotions but not to the point of loosing them. They are there and very strong. I use my Ti to keep my self sane. Underneath, my Fe is working my Ti still... my Fe is really my bottom line... meaning that it pushes Ti harder. I’m a strong believer that one can not help another if your own feelings/emotions are all over the place and there is not one thing wrong with keeping your self together. It’s not letting anyone down when doing so.

None of the functions work alone; even though, understanding each is important. I think understanding how they work together is just as important.

I, also, think (heaven help me) the confusion of being INFJ or INFP comes into play because of the J and P dichotomies...

https://personalityjunkie.com/03/judging-perceiving-ijs-ips/

Ps: I have to think more on Ne.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I like coming to conclusions, finding closure, not leaving things open-ended and exploring all the possibilities. I narrow in on one possibility and really dive deeply into it. I'm more inclined to see one truth rather than entertaining a bunch and seeing them as all true.
Hhmm... Exploring all the possibilities doesn't bother me itself - exploring illogical possibilities is what bothers me. So I think that sharing them with me is waiste of my time. Anyway I think that it's important to explore different explanations.

It's said that Ne thinks that different possibilities are all true at the same time. I believe that there are many ways of seeing things so in that meaning I do also believe that many possibilities are all "true" at the same time. But for me that has more to do with human mind and not so much with facts. So I believe that things can seem different for different people and everyone also intrepret what they see differently. :) Leaving things open-ended when trying to understand someone is also okay for me. Because IMO if you can't "just go with it" you won't be able to /understand what that person is thinking /see the whole picture.

And honestly I would rather live accepting that I can't be sure than falsely trusting that I know the truth :)
 

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Hhmm... Exploring all the possibilities doesn't bother me itself - exploring illogical possibilities is what bothers me. So I think that sharing them with me is waiste of my time. Anyway I think that it's important to explore different explanations.
As an example of exploring possibilities (to demonstrate more of what I meant), when a question is presented that me and my brother don't know the answer to, my INFP brother is more inclined to want to brainstorm what the answer could be. Whereas, I'm like "lets just look it up so we know the actual answer!" I want to get straight to the point and to know the answer or the best fit answer but he enjoys entertaining all those juicy possibilities whether they are accurate or not. That is appealing and fun for him.

Sometimes I take a long time to come to a decision (depending on what it is) and I'll research it a lot but there's usually a sense or urgency or determination under riding that whole thing for me personally. I'm very focused on getting to the end point rather than taking a bunch of detours (unless they wind up being helpful detours). And I can be rather impatient as well but that's me. I always just assumed that NP's were generally more laid back or easygoing but maybe enneagram comes into play there as well. Also, I'm sure there are ways that I sometimes utilize Ne that are just escaping me at the moment. And Dalien brings up a good point about the functions working in conjunction with one another and not just individually of course.

It's said that Ne thinks that different possibilities are all true at the same time. I believe that there are many ways of seeing things so in that meaning I do also believe that many possibilities are all "true" at the same time. But for me that has more to do with human mind and not so much with facts. So I believe that things can seem different for different people and everyone also intrepret what they see differently. :) Leaving things open-ended when trying to understand someone is also okay for me. Because IMO if you can't "just go with it" you won't be able to /understand what that person is thinking /see the whole picture.
That makes sense. I see it as - everyone has a piece of truth to the whole so everyone has something valid to offer. Basically everyone has a puzzle piece(s) in my mind. The only time something comes into question is when two things people say directly contradict with each other but that could sometimes mean that the person is relating their view point poorly or inaccurately or just...incompletely.


And honestly I would rather live accepting that I can't be sure than falsely trusting that I know the truth :)
I'm more inclined to place a bet on a truth (and fully trust it) and externally appear certain about it (because I am at that time). This is unintentionally deceiving in a way because I tend to appear more stubborn than I really am. On the inside, I'm actually very open-minded. It's just that I need that time alone to re-evaluate everything and to fully consider the new perspective I just learned. It can take time for me to fully digest it but once I have fully integrated it, I am back to an equilibrium. I know that everything is subject to change or more accurately, my whole system is constantly being refined upon taking in more information. Of course I can't speak for everyone else. This is just how I personally operate. And I know that all INxx's are system builders in their own ways.
 

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I posted this in another (dysfunctional) thread, but it seems as if it will be more useful here:

This is what Ni is...

Be warned, some of these images are disturbing and NSFW, but the way he describes his mental process is pure Ni in the Jungian sense of the word.

 
This is also Ni.

 
This is Ni + Fe, and more pure Ni from 1:50 - 3:05.

 
This is Ni + Te, because the focus is impersonal and uses objective evidence to support his "theory".

 
[/QUOTE]

This is Ni + inferior Se, especially at 2:10 when he says how meaning is to come from the earth and ordinary things, a lesson all INxJs must learn to be content with things as they are (Se).

 

You'll notice with all of these examples how Ni is frequently opposed to Se in a ever-present tension between the imaginative, metaphysical reality (Ni) and the observable, physical one (Se). Ni then is about seeing beyond reality (as we know it to be) and mere sensory experience (Se) (Rollo May), transformation as a way of life (Clive Barker), and/or seeking to achieve higher states of consciousness or ideal modes of being (Clive Barker/Colin Wilson). Ni is also focused on the consequences (Ni) of our actions (Se), and how the circumstances of our present moment (Se) lead to the conditions of the future (Ni) (Rollo May). Whereas Ne as a state of mind is focused on possibility and potential, Ni is focused on inevitability and change through time (Joseph Campbell) viewed through a very subjective lens of the individual person that notices universal patterns, or what Jung would say are archetypes, to explain the "hidden" truth or essence (Again, Jung's "inner processes") (Ni) of our lived experience (Se). [/QUOTE]

By the way, I believe those examples are all from INFJs. ;) (Except in the case of Pi, but is from an INFJ director, Darren Aronofsky).
 

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As an example of exploring possibilities (to demonstrate more of what I meant), when a question is presented that me and my brother don't know the answer to, my INFP brother is more inclined to want to brainstorm what the answer could be. Whereas, I'm like "lets just look it up so we know the actual answer!" I want to get straight to the point and to know the answer or the best fit answer but he enjoys entertaining all those juicy possibilities whether they are accurate or not. That is appealing and fun for him.

Sometimes I take a long time to come to a decision (depending on what it is) and I'll research it a lot but there's usually a sense or urgency or determination under riding that whole thing for me personally. I'm very focused on getting to the end point rather than taking a bunch of detours (unless they wind up being helpful detours). And I can be rather impatient as well but that's me. I always just assumed that NP's were generally more laid back or easygoing but maybe enneagram comes into play there as well. Also, I'm sure there are ways that I sometimes utilize Ne that are just escaping me at the moment. And Dalien brings up a good point about the functions working in conjunction with one another and not just individually of course.
Yes, it's the same for me too. I'm always focused on reaching, or at least keeping in mind, the end-goal, and I think this is what separates Ni from other functions, and perhaps why they can be seen as prophetic at times. I don't think other people have this extreme focus on the future, and envisioning how things will likely play out, but again, as many have said, it doesn't have to be an accurate prediction. It's just the state of mind one operates from, and in doing so, Ni-doms can be very strategic in achieving the end they have envisioned for themselves (In literature, one thinks of Dumbledore or Jay Gatsby), or on the other hand, becoming so focused on the future consequences that we become paralyzed in an existential prison of our own making (Hamlet). For this reason, as you also make clear, I don't think Ne takes itself as seriously as Ni (See Douglas Adams vs Aldous Huxley below). Seriously, Ni, chill out once in a while! Hence, the need to shift into the present moment of Se. :cool:

I also came across this from George RR Martin recently, and I think it really showcases his Ne, starting at 5:35 -6:40. Ne tends to change course midstream in search of a better, more promising path (i.e. potential), while Ni will take the wind out of Ne's sails and go down with the ship (also probably because inferior Se didn't notice the leak in their hull haha). If you compare this to JK Rowling, I remember how she said she always knew the ending of Harry Potter and never deviated from that path. Also, the experience of having an image of a boy wizard pop into your head while on a train is just sooooo Ni haha. I've never read Martin, so I'm not too sure, but from this, I would at least guess that he's a Ne-user.

 

Another example of Ni is in Ray Bradbury (INFJ), and I think this is a good example of how Ni "predicts" the future, starting at 6:30 - 8:10. Again, like Rowling, he says the ideas just pop in his head from the subconscious, and then later come true.

 

A few more Ni vs Ne examples from past posts:

Really, all of his interviews show the Ne-dom thought process, especially look at 4:18-5:14 and 5:43-6:40 in the interview below:

"I never actually thought of myself as a prescient science fiction writer..."

"So, it's very important that we have the most positive view of what the future will be (Ne), so you have to look at actually where you want to go, not where you're frightened that you might end up. (Ne + inf. Si)"


 

Contrast this with an Ni-dom's perspective, which usually critiques what's happening now (inf. Se), and thus creates a more dystopian view of the future based on where we're heading, like say, in Aldous Huxley's view, who may be an INTJ:


"I think one sees here a pattern which seems to be pushing very strongly toward a totalitarian regime..." (4:00-4:08)


 
I think this is a really good example of Ne (endless possibilities) vs Ni (underlying pattern, but it's unhealthy, so it leads to confirmation bias). Really, all of Darren Aronofsky's films are Ni.

 
 

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Discussion Starter #16
As an example of exploring possibilities (to demonstrate more of what I meant), when a question is presented that me and my brother don't know the answer to, my INFP brother is more inclined to want to brainstorm what the answer could be. Whereas, I'm like "lets just look it up so we know the actual answer!" I want to get straight to the point and to know the answer or the best fit answer but he enjoys entertaining all those juicy possibilities whether they are accurate or not. That is appealing and fun for him.
Hhhmm... that's a bad one. I love figuring out things and solving problems - give me a problem and my brain is on fire - but again - it's a waiste of my time trying to figure out something I can just "google". Also if it seems very unlikely that I can come up with the right answer I don't see the point of brainstorming. I love brainstorming when it's effective.

Sometimes I take a long time to come to a decision (depending on what it is) and I'll research it a lot but there's usually a sense or urgency or determination under riding that whole thing for me personally. I'm very focused on getting to the end point rather than taking a bunch of detours (unless they wind up being helpful detours). And I can be rather impatient as well but that's me. I always just assumed that NP's were generally more laid back or easygoing but maybe enneagram comes into play there as well. Also, I'm sure there are ways that I sometimes utilize Ne that are just escaping me at the moment. And Dalien brings up a good point about the functions working in conjunction with one another and not just individually of course.
Hhmm... I am quite easy-going in general but I take my own interpretations and conclusions very seriously. But I am ready to change my mind if you prove me wrong. But I take my time to process things so I won't accept things people say immediately. ( Now when I think about it I have been told that it's quite impossible to convince because most of time I just ignore people because their arguments seem irrelevant. But IMO I don't actually ignore their ideas - I evaluate them first and maybe find them irrelevant xD I mean I have learned to explain why they seem irrelevant. But often I just don't see the point of doing that. Because explaining myself takes so much energy I could use at something else - like thinking).


That makes sense. I see it as - everyone has a piece of truth to the whole so everyone has something valid to offer. Basically everyone has a puzzle piece(s) in my mind. The only time something comes into question is when two things people say directly contradict with each other but that could sometimes mean that the person is relating their view point poorly or inaccurately or just...incompletely.

Hahaha... I wouldn't neccessary say that everybody has something valid to offer - I just mean that everyone see things differently and nobody will never be able to see the same you do no matter how much you explain yourself. Our mind and experiences are unique.


I'm more inclined to place a bet on a truth (and fully trust it) and externally appear certain about it (because I am at that time).
Hhmm... I find it hard to trust a truth when I already know that it will change over time (when I get some new knowledge/perspective). If I already know that change is inevitable why to fool myself? I have done my peace with the idea that all I have is many hypothesis and presumption - but never the truth.

This is unintentionally deceiving in a way because I tend to appear more stubborn than I really am. On the inside, I'm actually very open-minded. It's just that I need that time alone to re-evaluate everything and to fully consider the new perspective I just learned. It can take time for me to fully digest it but once I have fully integrated it, I am back to an equilibrium. I know that everything is subject to change or more accurately, my whole system is constantly being refined upon taking in more information. Of course I can't speak for everyone else. This is just how I personally operate. And I know that all INxx's are system builders in their own ways.
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I have been told that I have the aura of Mother Teresa but the mind set of devil's advocate. I wanna help people to solve their problems but I can't ignore the bullshit people tell themselves to feel better. And if they aren't ready to be honest I can't just play along. For me that sounds more like ENTP than INFJ. So I am still comparing those two. I could see myself being Ne dom but not a Fi user so ENFP is out of picture. For a long time I just assumed that I am Feeler (because I am quiet and quite artistic) but know I am starting to see that I have more in common with thinkers than feelers. Maybe Fe is my third functions instead of second one. It would explain why most feeler topics sounds so boring to me :unsure: like I don't understand the point of sharing those things. For a long time I thought that it's just culture thing and I am just not used to people being openly emotional and needing to share their life and feelings... But maybe it's because I am not a feeler :unsure:
 

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@Scarlet.Black

Hhhmm... that's a bad one. I love figuring out things and solving problems - give me a problem and my brain is on fire - but again - it's a waiste of my time trying to figure out something I can just "google". Also if it seems very unlikely that I can come up with the right answer I don't see the point of brainstorming. I love brainstorming when it's effective.
Sorry I couldn't come up with a better example that you felt applied to you : /

Hahaha... I wouldn't neccessary say that everybody has something valid to offer - I just mean that everyone see things differently and nobody will never be able to see the same you do no matter how much you explain yourself. Our mind and experiences are unique.
I knew what you meant and that is true. I was just offering how I see things - sorry if that was irrelevant! lol Even if someone shares something that isn't entirely true, I still think you can take the parts that are true and discard the rest. I'm probably not explaining this right. At any rate, it's okay if we disagree anyway! :)



Hhmm... I find it hard to trust a truth when I already know that it will change over time (when I get some new knowledge/perspective). If I already know that change is inevitable why to fool myself? I have done my peace with the idea that all I have is many hypothesis and presumption - but never the truth.
I don't see it as fooling myself. I feel better coming to a decision about the things I believe and don't believe because I don't see the change that will happen as an entire 180 (just refining what I already have) or...I'm not looking at that at all. I know I can't know everything so I just try to do the best with what I have. I like to form these things so I can make decisions and come up with a plan about what I want to do with my life and the future. I do believe there are certain things I can know or at least put faith in to be the truth.

I have been told that I have the aura of Mother Teresa but the mind set of devil's advocate. I wanna help people to solve their problems but I can't ignore the bullshit people tell themselves to feel better. And if they aren't ready to be honest I can't just play along. For me that sounds more like ENTP than INFJ. So I am still comparing those two. I could see myself being Ne dom but not a Fi user so ENFP is out of picture. For a long time I just assumed that I am Feeler (because I am quiet and quite artistic) but know I am starting to see that I have more in common with thinkers than feelers. Maybe Fe is my third functions instead of second one.
It's quite possible. I was actually thinking before I read this post that I could see you as being a thinking type. I assume you relate more to Ti than Te then? Yeah, being artistic and quiet isn't really a defining trait of being a feeling type. Any type can be artistic. And yeah, I do think an xNTP would be more likely to approach the situation that way....when it comes to the honesty. I would say I care a lot about that too actually because I feel a good friend doesn't always just tell you the things you want to hear. Of course there's a time and a place though. Perhaps Ti (or Te) is higher up in the stack for you then - especially if you feel you value you it more than any feeling function - I would say you would be a thinking type if that is the case.

As you know, ENFP's have tertiary Te so if you are an ENFP it's possible you could be feeling like a thinking type because of that (similar to how some INFJ's think they're INTJ's due to tertiary Ti)? But it's really more about which functions you value more of course. And I assume you don't relate more to Ne than Se otherwise you might consider something like ISTP which has the tertiary Ni going on. Just throwing ideas out there. I don't think it's uncommon for xNTP's to mistype as INFJ's.


It would explain why most feeler topics sounds so boring to me like I don't understand the point of sharing those things. For a long time I thought that it's just culture thing and I am just not used to people being openly emotional and needing to share their life and feelings... But maybe it's because I am not a feeler

Very possible. I personally enjoy hearing about those things because I love all the drama lol. But I can see how that might look weird to a thinking type lol. I think those things about people are interesting.
 

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@mistakenforstranger

I could see George R.R. Martin being an Ne user. I have read his whole Song of Ice and Fire series and he's always creating these random characters only to mention them in passing. This creates intrigue in the reader but those characters will typically only have one line and are never mentioned again. Wouldn't an Ne user be more likely to do that? Just creating a bunch of different characters only to not really dive all that deep into them? Of course the main characters aren't that way!

Another thing he is known for is describing all the food in great detail! lol

When I write a story, I do believe in leaving room for divine inspiration as well but perhaps it's in a different way than he means. I see it as more Ni for me with everything coming together in an unexpected way or things transforming, but it sounds like he means it in an Ne way where he's taking detours or unexpected journeys on a different path (I'm probably explaining this poorly).

Also, you might find this interesting (how he came up with the idea for the story)

How George R.R. Martin Came Up With 'Game Of Thrones' Idea - Business Insider

The first part sounds like his way of utilizing Ni (I relate to this) but he seems to be more about creating in the moment than planning anything out. I found it helpful to know his process because I read a book on how to create Fantasy and Sci-Fi fiction by Orson Scott Card (author of Ender's Game) and he emphasized the importance of having every detail mapped and planned out a lot more (or you would run into problems)...which is not something I do either! I think if you map everything out to the last detail, as George R.R. Martin says, it will feel "dead" or however he put it. But that doesn't mean I go in with no plan at all like it seems he does. So some where in between the two. It made me feel better that I wasn't doing it wrong to go a different route than how Orson Scott Card teaches.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
I don't see it as fooling myself. I feel better coming to a decision about the things I believe and don't believe because I don't see the change that will happen as an entire 180 (just refining what I already have) or...I'm not looking at that at all. I know I can't know everything so I just try to do the best with what I have. I like to form these things so I can make decisions and come up with a plan about what I want to do with my life and the future. I do believe there are certain things I can know or at least put faith in to be the truth.
Well it's true that coming to some kind of conclusion and moving on is essential to some extent. I thought more about the attitude/approach part than practical part in my last post. :) But still I don't find myself to "be sure" if I am talking about interpretation of live/world and not actual bullet proof evidence or verifiable strong probability.

It's quite possible. I was actually thinking before I read this post that I could see you as being a thinking type. I assume you relate more to Ti than Te then? Yeah, being artistic and quiet isn't really a defining trait of being a feeling type. Any type can be artistic. And yeah, I do think an xNTP would be more likely to approach the situation that way....when it comes to the honesty. I would say I care a lot about that too actually because I feel a good friend doesn't always just tell you the things you want to hear. Of course there's a time and a place though. Perhaps Ti (or Te) is higher up in the stack for you then - especially if you feel you value you it more than any feeling function - I would say you would be a thinking type if that is the case.
I am not sure about Te and Ti. I am very focused at work (and I was very focused at schools) but when I spent a lot of time alone I just kind of lost my priorities and follow my feelings no matter what I should be doing. Does it sound more like an INFJ or INTJ?

Hhmm... I have NTPs in my life and we seem to function very differently. For example my social skills are my strongest skills. I am very good connecting with people IRL (forum and writing down small talk just doesn't do it for me). I hardly ever irritate anyone (some young sensor women, but that's it). That's actually why I think that I am a feeler. I am naturally very warm/smooth with people - but when people want a lot of emotional support I start to feel like they expect me to be some kind of mindless cheerleader without own opinions. I just wanna be kind but people see it as some kind of invitation to open up to me and expect emotional support. And at this point of live it has started to make me feel a little bit used. I am pretty sure that this is not what has happened to NTPs in my life ;)


As you know, ENFP's have tertiary Te so if you are an ENFP it's possible you could be feeling like a thinking type because of that (similar to how some INFJ's think they're INTJ's due to tertiary Ti)? But it's really more about which functions you value more of course. And I assume you don't relate more to Ne than Se otherwise you might consider something like ISTP which has the tertiary Ni going on. Just throwing ideas out there. I don't think it's uncommon for xNTP's to mistype as INFJ's.
And I am sure that I am not a strong Fi-user. I don't really value personal beliefs what comes to anything that affect anyone else than just that one person. Logic is more important than beliefs. For example welfare of many people is more important than beliefs of one person. It's simply mathematics to me.

I am definitely intuitive :tongue: both my Se and Si are very weak. But I am probably more aware of my Se. For better or for worse. So maybe I prefer INFJ's functions after all. Or INTJ.


Very possible. I personally enjoy hearing about those things because I love all the drama lol. But I can see how that might look weird to a thinking type lol. I think those things about people are interesting.
I think that I have had more than enough drama and feelings in my life in recent years :)
 

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@Scarlet.Black

Well it's true that coming to some kind of conclusion and moving on is essential to some extent. I thought more about the attitude/approach part than practical part in my last post. :) But still I don't find myself to "be sure" if I am talking about interpretation of live/world and not actual bullet proof evidence or verifiable strong probability.
This might indicate a preference for Te if you usually tend to place a lot of importance on or rely on verifiable facts. I personally couldn't care less about that (if at all) and rely much more on my own internal sense of logic. I ask myself if something makes sense to me personally, if it is logically sound with no real logical inconsistencies - but it may not necessarily be able to be verified by any hard facts and that is okay by me as I lead with my intuition above all and then sift it for logical inconsistencies. This may be part of why INFJ's can start believing in conspiracy theories lol.

I like these descriptions for Te and Ti:

Te: http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/Cognitive-Functions/Extraverted-Thinking.cfm

vs.

Ti: http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/Cognitive-Functions/Introverted-Thinking.cfm

I am not sure about Te and Ti. I am very focused at work (and I was very focused at schools) but when I spent a lot of time alone I just kind of lost my priorities and follow my feelings no matter what I should be doing. Does it sound more like an INFJ or INTJ?
It's hard to say since I don't understand what you mean entirely by "following your feelings no matter what" and what that would entail for you. I'm not sure if you've seen this before, but I think this points at the main differences between INFJ's and INTJ's so you might find it helpful: INFJ or INTJ?



Hhmm... I have NTPs in my life and we seem to function very differently. For example my social skills are my strongest skills. I am very good connecting with people IRL (forum and writing down small talk just doesn't do it for me). I hardly ever irritate anyone (some young sensor women, but that's it). That's actually why I think that I am a feeler. I am naturally very warm/smooth with people - but when people want a lot of emotional support I start to feel like they expect me to be some kind of mindless cheerleader without own opinions. I just wanna be kind but people see it as some kind of invitation to open up to me and expect emotional support. And at this point of live it has started to make me feel a little bit used. I am pretty sure that this is not what has happened to NTPs in my life ;)
So you view the xNTP's you know as having weaker social skills? Would you say you've always felt that way when it comes to other people or is it just a feeling that's recently built up for you (not wanting to be expected to offer emotional support because you feel taken advantage of)? I think xNTP's can be very capable of social skills but INFJ's or all the FJ's will typically go out of their way to actively create/promote social harmony wherever they go (and enjoy doing it - unless they're currently in an unhealthy state of course or the IxFJ's batteries need to be recharged). I have an INTP friend who seems to excel at people skills but that may partially be because she's female since females are socialized to have good social skills. It's obvious to me that she has a preference for Ti/Ne (she identifies as INTP too). She just seems less focused on relational/personal details than me and more focused on concepts or things like that. But we actually have a lot in common.

I also think this is worth looking at. Which one do you relate to the most?:
https://owlcation.com/social-sciences/The-4-Temperaments-of-the-16-Personality-Types

I am definitely intuitive both my Se and Si are very weak. But I am probably more aware of my Se. For better or for worse. So maybe I prefer INFJ's functions after all. Or INTJ.
I figured you felt that way but I figured I'd just throw it out there to cover all the bases lol. Which do you relate to more....or the most? Inferior Se or Si? I would look at how all the other functions manifest when in the inferior position too (when you have the time) and try to gauge which one really hits it home for you:


How Functions Work: Inferior Se (INTJ/INFJ) - Type Theory


How Functions Work: Inferior Si (ENTP/ENFP) - Type Theory



I think that I have had more than enough drama and feelings in my life in recent years :)
I totally understand. There's definitely a toxic side to it! lol
 
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