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When I was younger I found that I enjoyed apathy because I liked being unaffected by things. I tended to feel anger towards anything that tried to emotionally affect me because then I felt like that thing was trying to control or own me. It was like if the world couldn't affect my emotions, then I had more freedom and power over my life. Have you guys experienced this as nines?
 

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Yes.

Eventually it lead me to feel dead inside. Depressed even.
I'm still not out of that place.

But I am sure some nines have a different experience.
It was and is the same way with me. I'm emotionally very easily affected by others. I tried to wipe all traces of emotion from myself so I wouldn't feel jerked around by people. Though I eventually developed emotions again, I still struggle with apathy and a tendency to keep my face blank when I talk to people.
 

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When I was younger I found that I enjoyed apathy because I liked being unaffected by things. I tended to feel anger towards anything that tried to emotionally affect me because then I felt like that thing was trying to control or own me. It was like if the world couldn't affect my emotions, then I had more freedom and power over my life. Have you guys experienced this as nines?
Yes.
 

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YES. Yes, yes, yes. This is my main problem in life, truly; I don't want to be controlled and so I dissociate and stay inside my inner space. Sometimes I've been so intensely withdrawn that someone has touched me and I didn't even feel it until they mentioned it later on. Also with the 1 wing I'll construct a rationale in my mind as to why the person I feel controlled by is in the wrong for doing so; like, first I'll dissociate and then I'll think, "She's a cunt" or "He's just a little boy". I'm pissed off to hell a lot of the time...mostly subconsciously...yet I come across like a human punching bag or a slug. lol
 

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Um. So I type as Four with a strong 9 fix.

Are you guys like, generally successful at this tactic? It's definitely something I've tried to do but I've never really been successful at it. In other ways I've dissociated automatically once I finally reached my threshold, I'd have probably killed myself otherwise. But... I still feel like everyone can still see through me, they're judging me, etc.

I feel utterly thrilled* at the thought that I could hurt someone by seeming apathetic to them, cutting them off. But then I start to feel guilty, or I feel more upset that they don't actually seem to care, and in the end I tend to get all intense again. I feel this extreme tension when misunderstandings linger, even if the other person literally doesn't care one way or the other. I have to break the silence.

*(temporarily. I don't actually like hurting people I care about but if I'm hurt, then it satisfies me to think of hurting them back)

But I still do equate the idea of stoicism with power and control, very much so. I don't want to be vulnerable, though for me it's more that I don't want to be judged than anything else. It's a way to guard against that in theory.

Anyway sorry. Just fascinated by this. Do you ever feel like you try to be "apathetic" but you can't be?
 

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@Quernus
Not really comfortable to type as anything at the moment, but I do relate to what you say. At least somewhat. It does seem obvious to me that the one that cares the least has the most power, or that the one who cares too much is powerless, but I feel like the one who cares too much most of the time. So I can never have the upper hand if I want to, but then if I really didn't care, I wouldn't care if I have the upper hand or not in the first place, so... it's sort of like The Game I guess. The only way not to lose is to remain unaware of it. =P And that's why 9s are so powerful, because they lack that awareness (or maybe I'm underestimating them... or overestimating them, depending on how you see it).
 

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This is interesting! Pretty sure my sister is a 9 and while I can't speak for her I get the feeling that she would relate to this.

I think she struggles to understand why I so easily react emotionally to things. I suspect she sees it as a weakness (and she does have a point :p).
 

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Lol, I was about to ask if you find it empowering, though I notice you added that parenthesis.
I've noticed with certain interactions with people that she definitely has more "power" than me in that her ability to seemingly remain unaffected doesn't "feed" the other persons hunger for "drama" (talking specifically about "toxic" behaviour though). Having said that, I know her very well, and even if she seems "apathetic", I can still sense the emotions inside of her. People often accuse her of being "cold-hearted" and "uncaring" which I think is totally unfair and I know it upsets her a lot, deep down.

omg, so many "" >_>
 

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@The Perfect Storm
What about your own reactivity, do you find it empowering?

I find it interesting because I feel very reactive myself, but I don't like to show it because it can be so humiliating.
Hmm, interesting question...

If I'm honest I think it's more of a pseudo-empowering feeling? I mean, I admit I definitely get a rush and release when I react that way but I also know that it's definitely not always the "healthiest" way to handle things. I actually also find that after certain "outbursts" I feel so ashamed and humiliated that I often withdraw and hide my head in the sand for days, lol. For all my so-called "sass" I am pretty insecure and hyper-aware of how I come across to others. The shame/humiliation can be crippling for me. :unsure:

I think that although these days I try to be more objective and detached that I do still need time to vent, it's just that there are healthier methods of doing so (as opposed to getting angry and raging at another person in a defensive way). I need an outlet for my emotions because I do feel very intensely, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
 

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@The Perfect Storm
The way you talk about the dynamic between you and your 9 sister reminds me of me and my 9 ex, kind of.

He "couldn't be assed" to care about things but I knew he did deep down, and I think it made him a little uncomfortable that I saw through him on that. When we would fight, he would annoy the crap out of me by not doing things and not bothering, leaving big messes when I was rushing and had to work, making my life difficult by simply not doing things after promising he would do them to make peace in the moment, only for it to fall down hard on him later. I would then fight AT him, rather than with him, because he simply refused to be drawn into a fight. He would just go off to 9-cloud while I ripped his soul apart.

I don't think me and 9s mix well. You seem better about understanding her.. maybe it would have helped if I had any 9s in my family.
 

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@Animal

I admit it hasn't always been a "smooth ride" between my sister and I. It probably helps that I am 12 years her senior so I've been able to watch her grow and develop from a very young age (I was actually there when my mother gave birth to her!). So, in my eyes, she is my "baby sister", so there is definitely this protectiveness I have towards her which drives my desire to understand her better.

As I said, I do believe that despite outward appearances that she feels very intensely inside, and when she has opened up and expressed those parts of her self to me I've honestly thought that it was so beautiful and precious, because it was so raw and unfiltered.

Having said that, she IS one of the most stubborn people I know, haha! I remember an incident about 3-4 years a go when I could tell that she was angry at me but she wouldn't directly express it. I got so frustrated with her that I ended up locking us both in her bedroom where I shouted, "JUST SHOW ME HOW YOU FEEL!....I don't care if you hate me...I want to SEE the anger!"

Eventually she broke down and screamed at me for about 20 minutes straight, letting all the bottled up emotions inside her come out. Then she cried and told me she was worried that it might hurt me and create distance between us and I just hugged her and said that I felt even closer to her than before. It was a bitter-sweet moment.
 

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@Animal

I admit it hasn't always been a "smooth ride" between my sister and I. It probably helps that I am 12 years her senior so I've been able to watch her grow and develop from a very young age (I was actually there when my mother gave birth to her!). So, in my eyes, she is my "baby sister", so there is definitely this protectiveness I have towards her which drives my desire to understand her better.

As I said, I do believe that despite outward appearances that she feels very intensely inside, and when she has opened up and expressed those parts of her self to me I've honestly thought that it was so beautiful and precious, because it was so raw and unfiltered.

Having said that, she IS one of the most stubborn people I know, haha! I remember an incident about 3-4 years a go when I could tell that she was angry at me but she wouldn't directly express it. I got so frustrated with her that I ended up locking us both in her bedroom where I shouted, "JUST SHOW ME HOW YOU FEEL!....I don't care if you hate me...I want to SEE the anger!"

Eventually she broke down and screamed at me for about 20 minutes straight, letting all the bottled up emotions inside her come out. Then she cried and told me she was worried that it might hurt me and create distance between us and I just hugged her and said that I felt even closer to her than before. It was a bitter-sweet moment.
That is genuinely beautiful.

I have always done the same thing.. I want people to let it all out.. I want them to tell me off, get it out of their system. I went through that with my brother as well who is 6w5 Sp/So (VERY self-contained) and a strong 9 fixer. I had to encourage him to get it all out. And he said some insulting things, and some of them hurt, but I was happy that he got it out. I wonder if I would have the capacity to deal with a core 9. My brother is stubborn too, but 9 really takes the cake on that. I couldn't deal with my ex very well, but he was very much influenced by a sociopathic 8 brother who controlled him and he was somehow afraid to go against him in any way... so there was more bullshit at stake than I was willing to deal with.
 

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I actually also find that after certain "outbursts" I feel so ashamed and humiliated that I often withdraw and hide my head in the sand for days, lol. For all my so-called "sass" I am pretty insecure and hyper-aware of how I come across to others. The shame/humiliation can be crippling for me. :unsure:
Ehehehe.
 

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@Animal

I understand the desire and hunger to see people "let it out". In fact, I have to tone it down a lot of the time because I know that for a lot of people it's just too much for them. For instance, the incident with my sister was beautiful and we both admit that it brought us closer together but I do still wonder to this day if I pushed her too hard? It's easy to forget that what is very natural to me can be completely foreign to others. The amount of times people have told me that I "push" them too hard illustrates this. I get frustrated because I can sense it bubbling inside of them but it's so easy for me to come on too strong. >_>
 

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@Animal

I understand the desire and hunger to see people "let it out". In fact, I have to tone it down a lot of the time because I know that for a lot of people it's just too much for them. For instance, the incident with my sister was beautiful and we both admit that it brought us closer together but I do still wonder to this day if I pushed her too hard? It's easy to forget that what is very natural to me can be completely foreign to others. The amount of times people have told me that I "push" them too hard illustrates this. I get frustrated because I can sense it bubbling inside of them but it's so easy for me to come on too strong. >_>
Yeah.. I really relate to that too. I'm INFP whereas you're ESFP so you're probably even more forceful habitually (I'd guess).. but.. when I'm close to someone, it will eventually happen; it's inevitable. I love that @Sun Daeva is fond of getting to the bottom of problems and not walking away until they're resolved, even if it takes days. We've had some problems early on but we got STRAIGHT to the core of it, and that is part of why I knew he's THE ONE.. I am confident that both of us will PRIORITIZE handling any issue that comes up fully and completely, rather than one coming on too strong and pushing the other away.

So yeah, despite that I'm probably a bit less forceful (especially in person), and very introverted offline, I still feel the same thing, like my need to get to the bottom of things and have things in the open is insurmountable and to me it seems "productive" but to others it's "intrusive" or "too personal" or whatever. And. I can relate to being embarrassed by it as well.


I wonder how foreign this sounds to 9s. :D
 
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